Who has the authority…

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theefaith

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I'm not attacking the core issues of the RCC that are scriptural. But Jesus hates what you did to His mother. Therefore, so do I

In honoring Mary, what else are we doing but imitating the heavenly messenger who saluted her as full of grace, united to God ["the Lord is with thee"], blessed among women? What are all the praises which the Church offers to Mary, . . . but a faint commentary on the words of the archangel? What is the veneration we have for her but the fulfillment of the prophecy made by our heavenly Mother herself when, filled with the Holy Ghost, magnifying the Lord and extolling His mercy, she exclaimed: All generations shall call me blessed? (Luke 1:43). To suppress our feelings, therefore, would not only be inconsistent with the filial love we should have for her, but would also contradict the clear teaching of the Gospel.

it is not possible to praise her as much as her exalted dignity as mother of God deserves

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the Glory of Who created them, Lk 1:49 to Christ who redeemed them, and to the Holy Spirit who sanctified them with graces obtained by the merits of Christ! Source of Grace is Christ! Jn 1:16-17
 

theefaith

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As Eden was the Paradise of Creation, Mary is the Paradise of the Incarnation, and in her as a Garden was celebrated the first nuptials of God and man. The closer one gets to fire, the greater the heat; the closer one is to God, the greater the purity. But since no one was ever closer to God than the woman whose human portals He threw open to walk this earth, then no one could have been more pure than she . . .

Mary is the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in this temple for 9 months and it cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, anymore than you could hold a teen rock & roll dance in the holy of Holies in the temple of God?

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.

Sign of salvation Mary

Lk 1:45 all generations shall call me blessed!

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having bearing thier eternal salvation!

Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!

Not by nature but by supernatural grace!
Mary and the saints are what God made them not according nature but by the supernatural grace of God!

Glory to God for His mighty works and grace and mercy in His saints!
 

theefaith

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The key to understanding Mary is this: We do not start with Mary. We start with Christ, the Son of the Living God! The less we think of Him, the less we think of her; the more we think of Him, the more we think of her; the more we adore His Divinity, the more we venerate her Motherhood; the less we adore His Divinity, the less reason we have for respecting her . . .

No one . . . who thinks logically about Christ can understand such a question as: "Why do you speak so often of His Mother?" . .

It may be objected: "Our Lord is enough for me. I have no need of her." But He needed her, And what is more important, Our Blessed Lord gave us His Mother as our Mother . . .

Mary is a window through which our humanity first catches a glimpse of Divinity on earth. Or perhaps she is more like a magnifying glass, that intensifies our love of her Son, and makes our prayers more bright and burning.

God, Who made the sun, also made the moon. The moon does not take away from the brilliance of the sun. The moon would only be a burnt-out cinder floating in the immensity of space, were it not for the sun. All its light is reflected from the sun. The Blessed Mother reflects her Divine Son; without Him, she is nothing. With Him, she is the Mother of Men.
 

Bob Carabbio

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Hmmmm.....so the Catholic Church is confused or wrong in it's interpretation of Scripture but your Protestant men, who sometimes agree with The Church, are not wrong even though they all disagree with each other on what the "Truth" is??? Can you not see how confused you are?

Chuckle!!! And your "Pope Thing" - THE VERY "VICAR OF JESUS CHRIST ON EARTH" supposedly - apparently doesn't even understand that the ISLAMIC system is totally ANTI-CHRIST, AND ACTUALLY KISSES THEIR BLASPHEMOUS LITTLE BOOK, AND YOU THINK "Protestant men" are confused"????!!! Gimme a break!!!

I never said that "Protestants" were completely accurate about what the Bible says (since they're nothing but "just another collection" of religious paradigmatics).

I think personally that the "Assemblies of God" Denominational system is acceptably good to unite politically with, while not being TOTALLY ACCURATE in the absolute. Biblically they're a THOUSAND TIMES closer to Biblical truth than Catholics (Roman and otherwise), But they DO NOT represent the visible embodiment of Jesus' Church which is the "Pillar and Ground of Truth". I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God church system, BUT it doesn't necessarily DEFINE me or my Biblical Beliefs - that's between the Scriptures, and the Guidance of the Holy Spirit.

What I said was that the Bible, plus the illumination of the Holy Spirit is promised to lead into all truth, and whether this or that "Denominational opinion" agrees with that or not couldn't be less important. The Bible is the WORD OF GOD, and the AUTHOR thereof is completely available to Interpret - if WE care to listen.
 

Marymog

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Chuckle!!! And your "Pope Thing" - THE VERY "VICAR OF JESUS CHRIST ON EARTH" supposedly - apparently doesn't even understand that the ISLAMIC system is totally ANTI-CHRIST, AND ACTUALLY KISSES THEIR BLASPHEMOUS LITTLE BOOK, AND YOU THINK "Protestant men" are confused"????!!! Gimme a break!!!

I never said that "Protestants" were completely accurate about what the Bible says (since they're nothing but "just another collection" of religious paradigmatics).

I think personally that the "Assemblies of God" Denominational system is acceptably good to unite politically with, while not being TOTALLY ACCURATE in the absolute. Biblically they're a THOUSAND TIMES closer to Biblical truth than Catholics (Roman and otherwise), But they DO NOT represent the visible embodiment of Jesus' Church which is the "Pillar and Ground of Truth". I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God church system, BUT it doesn't necessarily DEFINE me or my Biblical Beliefs - that's between the Scriptures, and the Guidance of the Holy Spirit.

What I said was that the Bible, plus the illumination of the Holy Spirit is promised to lead into all truth, and whether this or that "Denominational opinion" agrees with that or not couldn't be less important. The Bible is the WORD OF GOD, and the AUTHOR thereof is completely available to Interpret - if WE care to listen.
Thanks Bob,

I had to look up the word paradigmatic......I learned something! Thanks. :rolleyes:

So, let me see if I understand you correctly. You clearly believe that The Catholic Church got it wrong. Protestant denominations are not "completely accurate about what the Bible says". Your personal opinion is "that the "Assemblies of God" Denominational system is acceptably good to unite politically with, while not being TOTALLY ACCURATE in the absolute." So what does that leave us? Well, that leaves YOU to be right and completely accurate in the absolute. But I get it. You put up with the Assemblies of God interpretation of what the Bible says because they are the closest to what YOU believe. Sounds like YOU will always be right and everyone else will always be wrong. Why don't you start your own denomination, write a book telling all of us what the Truth is? Then all of us will know the truth.

Help me out here. The Assemblies of God teach that baptism by immersion is commanded by the Scriptures. Can you show me a vs in Scripture that commands immersion?

It also teaches that The Lord's Supper, consisting of the elements --bread and the fruit of the vine-- is a symbol! Can you show me in Scripture where Jesus said while holding up the bread/wine "this is a SYMBOL of my body/blood"?

I
n my bible it says "this IS my body/blood" and Paul later re-affirmed what Jesus said when he asked rhetorically: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? Further saying: Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. How can one eat/drink a "symbol" unworthily Bob?

With that said; can you now see how bankrupt your theory is?

Curious Mary
 

1stCenturyLady

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from scripture then is Mary the mother of God?

Seeing as Jesus is God, I do not have a problem like some do in saying that Mary was the mother of God. But that doesn't make Mary God, nor to be prayed to. She is dead, not our hope, nor our advocate as your rosary makes you say.
 

1stCenturyLady

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In honoring Mary, what else are we doing but imitating the heavenly messenger who saluted her as full of grace, united to God ["the Lord is with thee"], blessed among women? What are all the praises which the Church offers to Mary, . . . but a faint commentary on the words of the archangel? What is the veneration we have for her but the fulfillment of the prophecy made by our heavenly Mother herself when, filled with the Holy Ghost, magnifying the Lord and extolling His mercy, she exclaimed: All generations shall call me blessed? (Luke 1:43). To suppress our feelings, therefore, would not only be inconsistent with the filial love we should have for her, but would also contradict the clear teaching of the Gospel.

it is not possible to praise her as much as her exalted dignity as mother of God deserves

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the Glory of Who created them, Lk 1:49 to Christ who redeemed them, and to the Holy Spirit who sanctified them with graces obtained by the merits of Christ! Source of Grace is Christ! Jn 1:16-17

Read the rosary - there are many more tributes to Mary than to God. Why? And why do you take away things like hope and our advocate away from Jesus and give them to His mother? Is it because you unconsciously see Jesus as still a child.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Help me out here. The Assemblies of God teach that baptism by immersion is commanded by the Scriptures. Can you show me a vs in Scripture that commands immersion?

The term "Baptize" means to "whelm", or "Overwhelm", so obviously immersion is implied by the word itself.

It also teaches that The Lord's Supper, consisting of the elements --bread and the fruit of the vine-- is a symbol! Can you show me in Scripture where Jesus said while holding up the bread/wine "this is a SYMBOL of my body/blood"?

Kind of ridiculous for Jesus to say LITERALLY: "this is my BODY" when it's obviously just a loaf, and "this is my BLOOD" when everybody could see it was just WINE that they already been drinking. And it would be against the long standing ordinance of GOD that BLOOD was NOT TO BE CONSUMED. Jesus said to do it in REMEMBERANCE of Him. So His command is OBVIOUSLY SYMBOLIC, since we're not blood-drinking Vampires/Cannibals.

How can one eat/drink a "symbol" unworthily Bob?

Simplest thing in the world!!! "Not Discerning the Lord's BODY" - The CHURCH Jesus Died to create is the Lord's Body, and if I have no care or regard for my Fellow Born Again Christian Brothers and Sisters, I'm not "discerning HIS BODY" here on earth.
 

Marymog

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The term "Baptize" means to "whelm", or "Overwhelm", so obviously immersion is implied by the word itself.
Key word: Implied.

What does our Christian history teach us since Scripture does not flat out say IMMERSION?

I also take note that you couldn't provide a vs from Scripture to support what you believe.
 

Marymog

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Kind of ridiculous for Jesus to say LITERALLY: "this is my BODY" when it's obviously just a loaf, and "this is my BLOOD" when everybody could see it was just WINE that they already been drinking. And it would be against the long standing ordinance of GOD that BLOOD was NOT TO BE CONSUMED. Jesus said to do it in REMEMBERANCE of Him. So His command is OBVIOUSLY SYMBOLIC, since we're not blood-drinking Vampires/Cannibals.
Do you know what the Bread of the Presence is/was?

Jesus TOLD you to eat his body. And then He showed you how to do it. Why do you reject what he told you and showed you to do?
 

Marymog

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Simplest thing in the world!!! "Not Discerning the Lord's BODY" - The CHURCH Jesus Died to create is the Lord's Body, and if I have no care or regard for my Fellow Born Again Christian Brothers and Sisters, I'm not "discerning HIS BODY" here on earth.
WOW...talk about twisting.

I will ask you the same thing Paul asked: Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

Your answer Bob?
 

Bob Carabbio

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WOW...talk about twisting.

I will ask you the same thing Paul asked: Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?

Your answer Bob?

Is IS what we say it is. A Ceremonial REMEMBRANCE, primarily of the Church gathered - Jesus' BODY and life on earth. It;s NOT a "Sacrament" in any sense of the word, but it is an ORDINANCE. He said to DO IT, and so we do.
 

Robert Gwin

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Hey Robert,

YOU say that each individual person has "the final authority in interpretation, as you are accountable on it". But Scripture says to "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." And that there are some things in Scripture that are "hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

It seems what you are saying is opposite of what Scripture says. Can you explain?

Curious Mary

Yes maam, thank you very much for asking. You are quite correct in what you say, however that only applies if they are in harmony with the Bible's teachings as you might agree. Jesus stated concerning taxes, render to Caesar those things which are Caesars, but God's things to God. That account might seem irrelevant to the situation, but we are commanded as Christians to obey the laws of the governments Romans 13: 1,2 So the point we can glean is, that if it conflicts with God's law, then we are to render to God those things which are His.

Now an account that is point blank to answering your question, during Jesus' day the highest authority on earth was the Sanhedrin, which was comparable to our Supreme Court, having the final say. Shortly after Jesus' death, some apostles were ordered by members of the Sanhedrin to stop preaching on the basis of his name. Keep in mind to, they illegally tried Jesus and had him killed. We read about this account in Acts chapter 5, now the apostles involved could have obeyed, but notice their reply: In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men. verse 29.

There is a chain of command among Christians, and we all have the Bible, and if we are capable individuals we are expected to obey God's commands. We know for a fact that if God said it, we obey it, if Jesus said it, we obey it, if one of the other Bible writers said it, we obey it, if the governing body (Faithful slave Mat 24:45-47) said it we obey it, but, now with them comes imperfection, some of the faithful slave can actually be wicked v48, as well as everyone down are imperfect. So if what they tell you to do is in line with Scripture, we obey, if they tell us something we know is wrong, and we obey them over the written word, yes, they will be held accountable, but no doubt we too have to take some responsibility.

When Eve followed satan into sin, satan was her superior at the time, and although Eve was not in authority over Adam, he too chose to follow her rather than making a stand for God's law.

I will say this is my thinking on the matter, I of course am imperfect and may very well be in error, but the Bible does say: (Revelation 20:12, 13) . . .The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.

My real meaning to what I said was speaking about what road you choose to follow. There are thousands of faiths that call themselves Christian, and every one of them interpret the Bible their way, and every one of them have at least one in authority, and if one obeys that authority figure 100%, their life is not guaranteed because of the sin of the one who was in authority. Remember what Jesus said?: (Matthew 15:12-14) . . .Then the disciples came and said to him: “Do you know that the Pharisees were stumbled at hearing what you said?” 13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” The Pharisees were the spiritual leader in Jesus' day over God's people, and made up a great deal of the Sanhedrin which consisted of 71 members. Could you imagine where we would be if Jesus or the apostles chose to obey them instead of God?
 

Marymog

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Is IS what we say it is. A Ceremonial REMEMBRANCE, primarily of the Church gathered - Jesus' BODY and life on earth. It;s NOT a "Sacrament" in any sense of the word, but it is an ORDINANCE. He said to DO IT, and so we do.
Thanks Bob,

ORDINANCE defined: an authoritative decree or direction; something ordained or decreed by fate or a deity

SACRAMENT defined: a Christian rite (such as baptism or the Eucharist) that is has been ordained by Christ

Both definitions meet the criteria of communion being a Sacrament ordained by Christ. It IS and ordinance and a Sacrament. HE said it is his body/blood and He said we must eat/drink his body/blood. He told us what we must do and He showed us how to do it. Paul re-affirmed this with his previously aforementioned rhetorical question. The earliest historical Christian writings of men who lived during the times of the Apostles and were taught by the Apostles also said it IS what He said it IS; "this IS my body/blood".

I accept what Jesus said it is. I accept what Paul said it is. I accept what the earliest Christians said it is. You accept what your 20th century men said it is.

With that said I know you will not accept what all those men said and I am wasting my time but I just don't like to see the Truth being disregarded by the men who taught you.
 

Robert Gwin

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yes but not scripture alone

Christ taught his apostles or church in person
Not actually sir, the birth of Christianity happened on Pentecost of 33, many days after Jesus returned to heaven. If the Bible does not identify the faith, then all will be justified in whatever faith they choose. Best think it over Faith, as there are two roads, one leading into life, the other to destruction, and most are on it according to Jesus.

I will state openly, God does identify the faith beyond any doubt in the Bible.
 

Marymog

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Yes maam, thank you very much for asking. You are quite correct in what you say, however that only applies if they are in harmony with the Bible's teachings as you might agree. Jesus stated concerning taxes, render to Caesar those things which are Caesars, but God's things to God. That account might seem irrelevant to the situation, but we are commanded as Christians to obey the laws of the governments Romans 13: 1,2 So the point we can glean is, that if it conflicts with God's law, then we are to render to God those things which are His.

Now an account that is point blank to answering your question, during Jesus' day the highest authority on earth was the Sanhedrin, which was comparable to our Supreme Court, having the final say. Shortly after Jesus' death, some apostles were ordered by members of the Sanhedrin to stop preaching on the basis of his name. Keep in mind to, they illegally tried Jesus and had him killed. We read about this account in Acts chapter 5, now the apostles involved could have obeyed, but notice their reply: In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men. verse 29.

There is a chain of command among Christians, and we all have the Bible, and if we are capable individuals we are expected to obey God's commands. We know for a fact that if God said it, we obey it, if Jesus said it, we obey it, if one of the other Bible writers said it, we obey it, if the governing body (Faithful slave Mat 24:45-47) said it we obey it, but, now with them comes imperfection, some of the faithful slave can actually be wicked v48, as well as everyone down are imperfect. So if what they tell you to do is in line with Scripture, we obey, if they tell us something we know is wrong, and we obey them over the written word, yes, they will be held accountable, but no doubt we too have to take some responsibility.

When Eve followed satan into sin, satan was her superior at the time, and although Eve was not in authority over Adam, he too chose to follow her rather than making a stand for God's law.

I will say this is my thinking on the matter, I of course am imperfect and may very well be in error, but the Bible does say: (Revelation 20:12, 13) . . .The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.

My real meaning to what I said was speaking about what road you choose to follow. There are thousands of faiths that call themselves Christian, and every one of them interpret the Bible their way, and every one of them have at least one in authority, and if one obeys that authority figure 100%, their life is not guaranteed because of the sin of the one who was in authority. Remember what Jesus said?: (Matthew 15:12-14) . . .Then the disciples came and said to him: “Do you know that the Pharisees were stumbled at hearing what you said?” 13 In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” The Pharisees were the spiritual leader in Jesus' day over God's people, and made up a great deal of the Sanhedrin which consisted of 71 members. Could you imagine where we would be if Jesus or the apostles chose to obey them instead of God?
Thanks Robert for your well thought out response. I appreciate it. This helps me better understand what you have been taught. However, your response conjures up more questions.

Who decides if the church leaders you speak of "are in harmony with the Bible's teachings" and what they told me "to do is in line with Scripture"?

I agree with you that "There is a chain of command among Christians" and "if the governing body said it we obey it". But if I decide that the chain of command for the Catholic Church teachings are in harmony/in line with the bible and you decide that the chain of command of the SDA's teaching are in harmony/in line with the bibles teachings and both have opposite teachings from Scripture......did I make the right decision or did you? After all, we are talking about eternal salvation here so we must get it right.

Also, since your men (hypothetically) teach a different 'truth' than my men how do we KNOW which teaching is the truth? Can you see why I am confused by your post....because it seems to me what you are saying is that each individual can figure out the Truth of Scripture (quote: what road you choose to follow) and then we must go find the Church that teaches that truth (which is really our truth). Maybe that's not what you are saying...but that's how I read it!

Looking forward to some clarification.....Mary
 

ScottA

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Who has the authority to interpret scripture?

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

Examples:

Text: a Fat sandwich man.

What does it mean: a fat man making sandwiches?

Or does it mean: a man making fat sandwiches?

No Hurry:

Does it mean we don’t have time so hurry up?

Or does it mean we got lots of time?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

the church existed before the NT
The church wrote the NT
The scriptures are the possession of the church!
The church alone has authority to interpret scripture and provide meaning, understanding and unity of faith!
No...that's like saying "Israel had the authority to interpret the law."

The authority is given by God alone, most commonly to chosen individuals. In the case of Israel however, they killed those individuals.

In the case of the church, God took the authority away from all men and gave it to the Holy Spirit and commanded the women [the bride] to be "silent."
 
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