Best way to win converts

[Aunty Jane]

1John5—— “...and who is it that endures? Only he that believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”.....

I think most Christians have that covered.....

What are "most Christians" enduring? 'Believing that Jesus is the son of God' is just the start, not the finish.
Believing that "Jesus is God" doesn't even get you off the starting line because you are worshipping three gods and breaking the First Commandment.....that is something Jesus never taught....not something the Jews would ever have accepted.

What “ dodge?” I repeated exactly what Jesus said about His Father’s Will.....I know there is something within you that wants to DO MORE ( Filthy Rags ) ,But Jesus said Simply to Believe in the One that God sent .....why do you insist upon more? Why do you argue with Jesus ? The Disciples asked the question and Jesus provided the answer that I am quoting....

If Jesus said we must be found "doing the will" of his Father, then we need to know what God's will is for the followers of his son.
What did Jesus tell us to do? There was so much more than just "believing". It isn't me who demands more, but it is God himself who tells us to follow all the teachings of his son.....I see you dodging most of them and offering excuses. Jesus will not accept excuses.

God wants us to do many things AFTER we are Saved —- Chief among them are to add many things to our faith like kindness , patience , self control, etc.......He also want us to obey the Law as it exists today.....”Take on the Burdens Of others, thus obeying the LAW of Christ” ....and of course Jesus wants us to obey His Commandments—— there are ONLY Two—- #1 Believe. #2 Love

No sorry, you have that wrong. The two commandments we are to follow are the same ones that were incumbent upon God's people in ancient times. The two greatest commandments replaced the Law of Moses....no longer a written law but one inscribed on hearts.
Matthew 22:34-40...
"But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”

So the whole law was summed up in these two commandments.....'to love God with your whole being, and to love your neighbor as yourself'.
Both are demonstrated by our actions, not simply by passive "belief".

One other command we have us to Follow Paul.....Paul was God's “ Chosen Vessel” to explain Christian Doctrine this side of the Cross.....

Paul wrote many things it is true, but the 12 were chosen vessels as well. Paul was not one of the 12, but he was given an assignment to take the gospel to the nations. His education aided him in this. He could hold his own with the educated Greek philosophers of the day....something that humble fishermen could not have done with any credibility.

One last thing .....God has also ordered us to “Rightly Divide” His Word......Most don’t bother timdo that ....it causes a lot if confusion that one sees on these threads.......

The confusion began a long time ago when the devil sowed his weeds among the early Christians.....the weeds have been trying to choke out the wheat ever since.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Trusting in the actual Gospel That Saves is “ Foolishness” to the vast majority of people that have ever lived or are living today....Trusting in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus NOTHING to save a soul as opposed to getting saved because you are “ Good Enough” somehow?

What????

Are you saying that we don't need to be "good enough" to qualify for salvation?

That Saving Insight is so “extreme”, so abhorrent to Wordly thinking , it takes a Miracle from God to get an Unsaved man to buy into it......the “ Miracle?” God sends His Holy Spirit to “ open your heart” to the reception of it....” Nobody comes , lest the Spirit draw him”......THAT is a Miracle.....THAT is “ Extreme”.....

Well, I certainly agree that God is the one who opens the heart to accept his truth (John 6:44, 65) but it costs the person something. It requires sacrifice on our part.
What did Jesus warn his disciples would be the result of becoming a true Christian?
John 15:18-21...
“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they followed My word, they will follow yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you on account of My name, because they do not know the One who sent Me."

Where are the Christians being persecuted and hated for doing no harm except to preach and teach as Jesus commanded? We are to be "no part of the world", and yet the churches are hand in hand with the political leaders. (James 4:4) In Russia and the Ukraine right now we see both sides of the conflict are supported by Orthodox "Christian" churches....or they claim to be. Can one kill his "Christian" brother of another nation and still be a Christian? (1 John 4:20-21)

How many of your brethren are in jail or undergoing persecution just for having a Bible in their possession?....or for meeting together to praise God in song? Or for preaching the gospel? My brothers are undergoing such persecution right now in various lands for doing what Jesus told them to do.....

There are two ways to get to Heaven.....The first way is to live a life with no sin in it. None.

Who told you that you were going to heaven? I have no such calling, so my future is going to be spent here on earth where God placed us in the beginning. If he had wanted us in heaven, he would have created us to live there like he did the angels. His first purpose for mankind was to live forever on the earth....that has never changed. (Isaiah 55:11) It will be fulfilled. (Revelation 21:3-4)
Only God's elect will go to heaven....are you a chosen one? What will these do in heaven?

The second way, if you can’t do the first one , is to Believe the Gospel .....lets call it God’s “ Rescue Plan” if using the term “ Loop - Hole” rubs you the wrong way—- regardless of what we name it—- it’s the only thing that’s gonna work as far as Salvation is concerned .

Salvation means what to you? What are you getting "saved" from?...and what does it mean for your future?

.....Please abandon That old Canard that Legalists love to throw out there because they reject the Grace of God— the only thing that ever Saved anyone....

Where do you get the idea that we reject 'grace"? It is accepted gratefully, but on God's terms.....it is offered conditionally, and if you do not believe that, then Christ will put us all in our place come the judgment.

You say we must continue to “ remain in Obedience”..... that is True , but one must realize that “ LOVE” is the Engine that drives Obedience.....NOT the fear of dropping into Hell every time we “ Stumble” or get “ caught up in sin”.....

Since I have no belief in hell, you're words are meaningless. "Grace" seems to be the one thing that most who claim to be Christians fail to fully understand. The gift is offered to all, but not all will qualify to have it "cover" them, unless they put in the effort to comply (out of love for God and neighbor) with Christ's teachings....all of them. "Faith without works is dead".

Would you like some of that oxygen now...?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Since I have no belief in hell,



Wow.Simply unbelievable .....you don’t believe the words of Jesus , obviously......

There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone that warn about Hell—- 70 of these references were spoken of by Jesus.... It seems that Jesus believed in Hell, even if “ you” don’t....

“ You shall be cast into a Furnace Of Fire “
“ Depart from me, you that are cursed— into a Lake Of Everlasting Fire, prepared for the devil And angels”
“ If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out! It’s better to live with one eye than it is to go to Hell with two eyes”
“ And whosoever’s name was not found in the Book Of Life was cast unto the Everlasting Flames of Hell”

What kind of pig- ignorant doctrine lets you evade these verses? Anybody this Wrong is not really worthy of a debate.....what other clear verses of the Bible do you deny? I suppose you are like Thomas Jefferson and you go through the Bible with a razor and just cut out the parts you disagree with and create your own “ Bible”.....

The Lost will know that He’ll is real one nano-second after they arrive.....I hope that is not your fate...I think that you are on VERY Thin Ice......Your Unbelief In Hell disqualifies you as a serious debater—- thanks for revealing your “ True Colors” .....Your “ Doctrine “ is about 99% Judaism with a little bit of Christianity sprinkled in......perhaps some good can come out if your error- filled posts—- they can be used as a “ Springboard” to get the Truth Of Paul’s Gospel Of Grace ( Given to Him by Jesus) out there for the Newbies in the crowd ....

 

[Aunty Jane]

What kind of pig- ignorant doctrine lets you evade these verses?

Wow! “Pig ignorant” is rather insulting......Yet your own ignorance concerning the meaning of the words translated “Hell” is screaming at me right now.

Let me take you to Jeremiah 7:30-31....
“For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight,” declares the Lord. “They have put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.” (NASB)

Read this carefully.....the “Valley of Ben-hinnom” is the same place as “Gehenna” which Jesus referenced and which most Bible translations render as “Hell” along with “hades” and the Hebrew “Sheol”. There is no “Hell” (as Christendom teaches it) in the Bible.
So there is your first mistake. You do not demonstrate any knowledge of what “Gehenna” is, despite the fact that Jews had no teaching of hellfire in their scripture.

The Jews did understand what Jesus meant because “the Valley of Ben-hinnom” was converted to Jerusalem’s garbage dump, (after God stopped the burning of their children in the fire to the false god Molech) which was kept burning day and night by the addition of “brimstone” (Sulfur) so that the fire never went out. Nothing alive was ever cast into “Gehenna”. It was the place where the city’s garbage was thrown. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown into Gehenna for disposal as well.

To Jews, (who had never been taught about a hell of eternal torment in their scripture) being cast into Gehenna meant that a person was not worthy of a decent burial and therefore was not going to be remembered by God in the resurrection. The Jews were never taught about an immortal soul because the Bible does not teach such a thing. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) If there is no immortal soul to torment, then Gehenna represented a death from which no one was to be resurrected. It is the same as the “lake of fire” in Revelation which is called “the second death”. There is no coming back from the second death.

Eternal life in the Bible is contrasted with eternal death. It was the only choice that Israel was given. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) “Life or death”......not “heaven or hell”.
There is no hell of eternal torment....there never has been.

Please tell me why God needs to torment the wicked forever....? What does that achieve? God and his son were all about repentance and forgiveness....not punishment for the sake of it. Hellfire misrepresents God’s character horribly.

Anybody this Wrong is not really worthy of a debate.....what other clear verses of the Bible do you deny? I suppose you are like Thomas Jefferson and you go through the Bible with a razor and just cut out the parts you disagree with and create your own “ Bible”.....

You should do some more thorough research before you decide to condemn anyone else as “this wrong” or “pig ignorant” about a subject.

Matthew 10:28...
“28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (NASB)

Again, we see “Gehenna” incorrectly translated as “hell”...but read what Jesus said concerning those in Gehenna....they are not “tormented” but “destroyed”. “Destroyed” means what it says.
No one can destroy a soul, but God. According to Jewish belief, resurrection was the restoration of a soul...bringing a person back to the land of the living, as Jesus did with his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) Restoring the “breath of life”, is what resurrection means......Adam “became” a soul when God started him breathing. (Genesis 2:7) Souls die when breathing stops. So Christendom’s teaching about the soul is opposite to what the ancient Jews were taught from their own scripture.

I believe that you are the one who is dead wrong about this subject. Is God a fiend that he needs to keep souls in existence in a prison to torment them forever? But in order to suffer, the wicked souls would have to be alive....but only the righteous are promised eternal life.

What happens to a soul when the body dies? Ezekiel 18:4 tells us that “souls” die. They are not immortal and never were. There is not a single scripture in the Bible where the “soul” is ever described as a disembodied spirit. Humans are not the only ones who are called “souls” in the Bible. Animals are also called “souls” because the word basically means “a breather”....a creature who breathes.

Solomon remarked on the futility of humans having no superiority over the animals in death....
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20....
“For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.” (NASB)

The Lost will know that He’ll is real one nano-second after they arrive.....I hope that is not your fate...I think that you are on VERY Thin Ice......Your Unbelief In Hell disqualifies you as a serious debater—- thanks for revealing your “ True Colors” .....Your “ Doctrine “ is about 99% Judaism with a little bit of Christianity sprinkled in......perhaps some good can come out if your error- filled posts—- they can be used as a “ Springboard” to get the Truth Of Paul’s Gospel Of Grace ( Given to Him by Jesus) out there for the Newbies in the crowd ....

Well, one of us is in error.....big time. Perhaps if you did deeper study, especially original language word studies, you would know that Jesus was Jewish, and that he taught from Jewish scripture.....there was no other. (2 Timothy 3:16) Jesus did not subscribe to the teachings of the Pharisees who distorted scripture to suit their own self righteousness. (Matthew 15:7-9; 13-14) He consigned them to “Gehenna”. (Matthew 23:33) They knew what he meant.

The “Christianity” that you rely on, was corrupted very early in its history, just as Jesus and his apostles had warned would happen.....(Acts 20:30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Hebrews 6:4-6) but which Christendom denies ever happened because all the false doctrines that the RCC adopted were carried over into all the Protestant religions that grew from it. The “mother” church has many daughters....all equally in error.

My “doctrine” is 100% what Jesus taught, not how Christendom interprets it. The same entity who corrupted Judaism also corrupted Christianity. (Matthew 10:24-30, 36-42) Anyone who knows the history of “the church” will see clearly that Christ “never knew” them. Their disobedience and abhorrent behaviour proves that Christ was never among them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Wow! “Pig ignorant” is rather insulting......Yet your own ignorance concerning the meaning of the words translated “Hell” is screaming at me right now.

Let me take you to Jeremiah 7:30-31....
“For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight,” declares the Lord. “They have put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.” (NASB)

Read this carefully.....the “Valley of Ben-hinnom” is the same place as “Gehenna” which Jesus referenced and which most Bible translations render as “Hell” along with “hades” and the Hebrew “Sheol”. There is no “Hell” (as Christendom teaches it) in the Bible.
So there is your first mistake. You do not demonstrate any knowledge of what “Gehenna” is, despite the fact that Jews had no teaching of hellfire in their scripture.

The Jews did understand what Jesus meant because “the Valley of Ben-hinnom” was converted to Jerusalem’s garbage dump, (after God stopped the burning of their children in the fire to the false god Molech) which was kept burning day and night by the addition of “brimstone” (Sulfur) so that the fire never went out. Nothing alive was ever cast into “Gehenna”. It was the place where the city’s garbage was thrown. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown into Gehenna for disposal as well.

To Jews, (who had never been taught about a hell of eternal torment in their scripture) being cast into Gehenna meant that a person was not worthy of a decent burial and therefore was not going to be remembered by God in the resurrection. The Jews were never taught about an immortal soul because the Bible does not teach such a thing. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) If there is no immortal soul to torment, then Gehenna represented a death from which no one was to be resurrected. It is the same as the “lake of fire” in Revelation which is called “the second death”. There is no coming back from the second death.

Eternal life in the Bible is contrasted with eternal death. It was the only choice that Israel was given. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) “Life or death”......not “heaven or hell”.
There is no hell of eternal torment....there never has been.

Please tell me why God needs to torment the wicked forever....? What does that achieve? God and his son were all about repentance and forgiveness....not punishment for the sake of it. Hellfire misrepresents God’s character horribly.


You should do some more thorough research before you decide to condemn anyone else as “this wrong” or “pig ignorant” about a subject.

Matthew 10:28...
“28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (NASB)

Again, we see “Gehenna” incorrectly translated as “hell”...but read what Jesus said concerning those in Gehenna....they are not “tormented” but “destroyed”. “Destroyed” means what it says.
No one can destroy a soul, but God. According to Jewish belief, resurrection was the restoration of a soul...bringing a person back to the land of the living, as Jesus did with his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) Restoring the “breath of life”, is what resurrection means......Adam “became” a soul when God started him breathing. (Genesis 2:7) Souls die when breathing stops. So Christendom’s teaching about the soul is opposite to what the ancient Jews were taught from their own scripture.

I believe that you are the one who is dead wrong about this subject. Is God a fiend that he needs to keep souls in existence in a prison to torment them forever? Bit I n order to suffer, the wicked souls would have to be alive....but only the righteous are promised eternal life.

What happens to a soul when the body dies? Ezekiel 18:4 tells us that “souls” die. They are not immortal and never were. There is not a single scripture in the Bible where the “soul” is ever described as a disembodied spirit. Humans are not the only ones who are called “souls” in the Bible. Animals are also called “souls” because the word basically means “a breather”....a creature who breathes.

Solomon remarked on the futility of humans having no superiority over the animals in death....
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20....
“For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.” (NASB)


Well, one of us is in error.....big time. Perhaps if you did deeper study, especially original language word studies, you would know that Jesus was Jewish, and that he taught from Jewish scripture.....there was no other. (2 Timothy 3:16) Jesus did not subscribe to the teachings of the Pharisees who distorted scripture to suit their own self righteousness. (Matthew 15:7-9; 13-14) He consigned them to “Gehenna”. (Matthew 23:33) They knew what he meant.

The “Christianity” that you rely on, was corrupted very early in its history, just as Jesus and his apostles had warned would happen.....(Acts 20:30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Hebrews 6:4-6) but which Christendom denies ever happened because all the false doctrines that the RCC adopted were carried over into all the Protestant religions that grew from it. The “mother” church has many daughters....all equally in error.

My “doctrine” is 100% what Jesus taught, not how Christendom interprets it. The same entity who corrupted Judaism also corrupted Christianity. (Matthew 10:24-30, 36-42) Anyone who knows the history of “the church” will see clearly that Christ “never knew” them. Their disobedience and abhorrent behaviour proves that Christ was never among them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

You are not “ pig ignorant”—— your Doctrine is....

Some people don't believe in Hell— that is their Right!

Some people believe that the Earth is Flat— that is their Right!

Some people think it’s a waste of time to try to have an intelligent conversation with either group.....that is “ my “ Right and that is the reason that I am bowing out of a debate that is destined to be one of continued Biblical Ignorance.....

Here’s a Bible verse that some should take to heart , but of course, they won’t—-They will ignore it as they so easily do the clear verses about the existence of Hell—Something that Jesus Himself Believed in and warned about......here us your verse: “ Study and Prove Yourself to be a good student of the Word.....RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word, so you won’t have to stand ashamed” ......Shame on anybody that pretends that clear Bible verses are Lies.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Shame on anybody that pretends that clear Bible verses are Lies.....

I whole heartedly agree....but you won’t admit that the clear Bible verses that you point to are the lies...I have posted nothing but “clear Bible verses” and still you cannot see.....translating John 1:1 to imply that Jesus is God is a lie. Insinuating that John 8:56 is in any way connected to Exodus 3:14 is a lie.
It has been explained very clearly to you with much scripture to back it up.....that’s a shame.

Jesus will decide who he is, and he will reward only those who have taught the truth about him from God’s word, not the corruption of the “weeds” sown by the devil that Jesus forewarned about.

It was so obvious that all you had was what you kept repeating...like an echo.....empty of substance each time. You have not done original word studies or you would see the errors in your own arguments.....sad that you are blind to them. So be it. That is your choice.

 

[theefaith]

Truth matters!

di are you opposed to black history month? Just cos they are black?

or women history month?

Is white history month ok?
Or man history month?

MLK said not by the color of our skin but by the content of you’re character!

then I go with blood bought the apostles in the church are commanded to preach the gospel teach all nations Matt 28:19

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE="michaelvpardo, post: 1263221, member:

“but no one is saved but by receiving the gospel”

Does this include the faith and baptism of Mk 16:16?

 

[theefaith]

Unity requires the same faith!

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

 

[theefaith]

Call it what you want...it just happens to be True.....

I could fill ten warehouses with a fraction of what the Catholics and “ Their” Glasses get Wrong about the Bible....Perhaps If you could spare some of the money that you might be using to buy somebody out of the Pretend Land Of Purgatory, I could sell you mine.....you really need them

no one can buy you’re way out

The church can’t be wrong
Matt 26:18-19 Jn 16:13 Matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15

The church wrote the scripture
Do you can’t make a scripture verses the church fight

The church does not require scripture to know the truths revealed by God! Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15

Church is eternal! Lk 1:32-33

Christ and His apostolic church are one! Matt 5:14 Jn 15:1 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 1 Tim 3:15

The holy church is a Perfect society founded by Christ for the salvation of all men!

And to Faithfully transmit and saintly safeguard the deposit of faith!

No one has authority from Christ except His church of the apostles to define and declare truth!

Scripture is the possession of the church!

All of divine revelation is the word of God and thee faith given to the church of the apostles by Christ
to safeguard against all error, and
to faithfully teach all nations!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” is heresy and is opposed by the scriptures. Matt 16:28-19 Matt 18:18 Jn 29:21-23 Acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The church is an extension of Christ who taught the truth, and the church is commanded to teach all nations these same truths called the deposit of faith! Matt 28:19 Jude 1:3

All scripture came by tradition!

By divine, apostolic, and inspired human tradition that is verified by the apostolic tradition!

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter & the apostles received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his church!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Or the apostolic tradition! Acts 2:42

All men Must be taught, or instructed, Lk 1:4 acts 8:31 and hear the church Matt 18:17 and the church is the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 cos Christ and his apostolic church are one!
Matt 5:14 , Jn 15:5, Acts 9:4, Eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by his apostolic church. Matt 28:19

The holy church does not require scripture to know the truth cos the church received the “deposit of faith” Jude 1:3 from Christ in person and the church of the apostles by apostolic authority and inspired human authority wrote the scriptures, and the apostolic authority verified them, declared what is inspired scripture, and what is not the inspired scripture, as an example the gospel of Thomas is not inspired scripture but the gospel of Matthew is inspired scripture.

The deposit of faith, the entire divine revelation and word of God is given to the church of the apostles by Christ to safeguard against all error!
And to faithfully teach all nations!
Jude 1:3, Matt 28:19

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his apostles!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

 

[theefaith]

Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!

To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!

to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!

 

[theefaith]

Who knows.....it’s kinda dumb.....Jesus was God ....we ain’t......we can’t do what He would do...

A better question might be , “What would Jesus * HAVE* me do”.......

saint Cyril of Alexandria 4th century

it only Christ by His grace (merits of His blood passion and death) that we are enabled and empowered to actually be holy and righteous and all our actions

if we live by the spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh

my grace is sufficient for you

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

 

[theefaith]

Who knows.....it’s kinda dumb.....Jesus was God ....we ain’t......we can’t do what He would do...

A better question might be , “What would Jesus * HAVE* me do”.......

so there is nothing we can do to be saved?????

 

[BloodBought 1953]

so there is nothing we can do to be saved?????

Sure there is! ASK.

“Anybody that * ASKS* to be Saved , WILL BE SAVED”


The Key to Christianity is seeing that you are a Sinner That needs a Savior....it was the entire POINT of THE LAW....Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” unless you knew how to use it.....if it leads you to Jesus, it has done its intended job.......Understand that you are a Lost Sinner who MUST have a Savior—- TURN ( Repent) to that Savior ( Jesus) and He will see to it that you get Saved ....if that means getting baptized, enduring until the end , repenting of your sins or standing on your head for 24 hours , it is up to HIM to see that your Salvation happens—- the onus is on Him to fulfill His Promise to Save you if you simply “ Turn to Him”—— His Word is at stake, and it is Impossible for God to lie.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42


If you would read the book of Acts beyond the second chapter , you would see that this book is a transitional one that shows how Jesus changed the Plan Of Salvation.....with the Apostles , it was all about the “ NAME “ of Jesus......After Jesus Chose Paul , He used this “ Chosen Vessel” ( Paul) to show that the Salvation Plan now was changed , with the emphasis on the * BLOOD * Of Christ aa opposed to the * Name*...with the Apostles, Salvation was all about “ Who Jesus Was”......With Paul it was all about “ What He DID! “ ..... by the end of Acts , it was agreed that Paul was right....one no longer had to be baptized in the NAME of Jesus to get the Holy Spirit .....all you had to do is have Faith in the death, burial and Resurrection Of Jesus, or in other words, Believe the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4......Paul preached The Cross and Peter eventually confessed that whatever Paul taught was equal to anything in Scripture...our most recent Marching Orders are to “ Follow Paul”—- Paul Said it three times....he was TOLD to say it by Jesus...Paul never wrote anything that was not Holy Spirit inspired....remember, it is not Who He was ...it is what He did—- “ He Died for our Sins”..... THAT is our Doctrine for this current “ Age Of Grace”....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Religion is what man owes to God for having created him in His image and likeness!

To Christ for having redeemed him in His own blood!

to the Holy Spirit for sanctifying him in the sacraments of holy mother church!

The LAST thing that Jesus wants to see is “ Religion”—- it’s the polar opposite of Christianity.....the Tragedy Of Christianity is that the Multitudes have “Turned” Christianity into just another Religion....they make it kinda like Judaism , replete with “ don’t do this and do do that” with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled in, where confused and Lost people are merely like the adherents to any other Worldly Religion—- trying to “ make” themselves Worthy by Turning over a New Leaf or by trying to be more Moral , as opposed to seeing that they are “ Made “ Worthy by the Shed Blood Of The Lamb Of God......

As it has been wisely put—- “Religion says “ DO”.......Christianity says, “ DONE!” .......it’s the difference between Heaven and Hell

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Wow! “Pig ignorant” is rather insulting......Yet your own ignorance concerning the meaning of the words translated “Hell” is screaming at me right now.

Let me take you to Jeremiah 7:30-31....
“For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight,” declares the Lord. “They have put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.” (NASB)

Read this carefully.....the “Valley of Ben-hinnom” is the same place as “Gehenna” which Jesus referenced and which most Bible translations render as “Hell” along with “hades” and the Hebrew “Sheol”. There is no “Hell” (as Christendom teaches it) in the Bible.
So there is your first mistake. You do not demonstrate any knowledge of what “Gehenna” is, despite the fact that Jews had no teaching of hellfire in their scripture.

The Jews did understand what Jesus meant because “the Valley of Ben-hinnom” was converted to Jerusalem’s garbage dump, (after God stopped the burning of their children in the fire to the false god Molech) which was kept burning day and night by the addition of “brimstone” (Sulfur) so that the fire never went out. Nothing alive was ever cast into “Gehenna”. It was the place where the city’s garbage was thrown. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown into Gehenna for disposal as well.

To Jews, (who had never been taught about a hell of eternal torment in their scripture) being cast into Gehenna meant that a person was not worthy of a decent burial and therefore was not going to be remembered by God in the resurrection. The Jews were never taught about an immortal soul because the Bible does not teach such a thing. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) If there is no immortal soul to torment, then Gehenna represented a death from which no one was to be resurrected. It is the same as the “lake of fire” in Revelation which is called “the second death”. There is no coming back from the second death.

Eternal life in the Bible is contrasted with eternal death. It was the only choice that Israel was given. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) “Life or death”......not “heaven or hell”.
There is no hell of eternal torment....there never has been.

Please tell me why God needs to torment the wicked forever....? What does that achieve? God and his son were all about repentance and forgiveness....not punishment for the sake of it. Hellfire misrepresents God’s character horribly.


You should do some more thorough research before you decide to condemn anyone else as “this wrong” or “pig ignorant” about a subject.

Matthew 10:28...
“28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (NASB)

Again, we see “Gehenna” incorrectly translated as “hell”...but read what Jesus said concerning those in Gehenna....they are not “tormented” but “destroyed”. “Destroyed” means what it says.
No one can destroy a soul, but God. According to Jewish belief, resurrection was the restoration of a soul...bringing a person back to the land of the living, as Jesus did with his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) Restoring the “breath of life”, is what resurrection means......Adam “became” a soul when God started him breathing. (Genesis 2:7) Souls die when breathing stops. So Christendom’s teaching about the soul is opposite to what the ancient Jews were taught from their own scripture.

I believe that you are the one who is dead wrong about this subject. Is God a fiend that he needs to keep souls in existence in a prison to torment them forever? But in order to suffer, the wicked souls would have to be alive....but only the righteous are promised eternal life.

What happens to a soul when the body dies? Ezekiel 18:4 tells us that “souls” die. They are not immortal and never were. There is not a single scripture in the Bible where the “soul” is ever described as a disembodied spirit. Humans are not the only ones who are called “souls” in the Bible. Animals are also called “souls” because the word basically means “a breather”....a creature who breathes.

Solomon remarked on the futility of humans having no superiority over the animals in death....
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20....
“For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.” (NASB)


Well, one of us is in error.....big time. Perhaps if you did deeper study, especially original language word studies, you would know that Jesus was Jewish, and that he taught from Jewish scripture.....there was no other. (2 Timothy 3:16) Jesus did not subscribe to the teachings of the Pharisees who distorted scripture to suit their own self righteousness. (Matthew 15:7-9; 13-14) He consigned them to “Gehenna”. (Matthew 23:33) They knew what he meant.

The “Christianity” that you rely on, was corrupted very early in its history, just as Jesus and his apostles had warned would happen.....(Acts 20:30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; Hebrews 6:4-6) but which Christendom denies ever happened because all the false doctrines that the RCC adopted were carried over into all the Protestant religions that grew from it. The “mother” church has many daughters....all equally in error.

My “doctrine” is 100% what Jesus taught, not how Christendom interprets it. The same entity who corrupted Judaism also corrupted Christianity. (Matthew 10:24-30, 36-42) Anyone who knows the history of “the church” will see clearly that Christ “never knew” them. Their disobedience and abhorrent behaviour proves that Christ was never among them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

All of this “ Gehenna” stuff, etc........I have known about all of it for about 30 years....

Read the story of Lazarus and the Rich man.....it will tell you pretty much all you need to know about Hell...

Details are not important....Unbelievers are going to be punished....and it ain’t gonna be pleasant....The Bible is clear that Satan will be “ Tormented” for eternity .....I think Unbelievers will be tormented for a certain length of time and then they will “ Perish” —- they will cease to exist.Forever.

 

[Aunty Jane]

All of this “ Gehenna” stuff, etc........I have known about all of it for about 30 years....

You could have fooled me.....there is no "hell" in the Bible. There is "sheol", "hades" "gehenna", "the lake of fire" and "tartarus".....most of which are erroneously translated "hell".

Sheol and hades are descriptions of the same place...the common grave of mankind.(Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
Gehenna and the lake of fire are descriptions of the "second death"...a death from which no one returns. There is no one alive in either place.
Tartarus is a place of spiritual darkness where the devil and his demons are confined without any spiritual enlightenment from God and restrained by him so that they can no longer materialize like they did before the flood.

Read the story of Lazarus and the Rich man.....it will tell you pretty much all you need to know about Hell...

Read that parable in context.....it is surrounded by other parables, none of which are real stories, but illustrations about situations that Jesus' audience understood. The rich man and Lazarus is also a parable, not a real account about real individuals. Its about the Pharisees and the "lost sheep" whom they despised....these trade places when the "lost sheep" accept Jesus as their savior and Messiah. "Abraham's bosom" was a position of favor with God, which was taken from the Pharisees and given to Jesus disciples.

Details are not important....Unbelievers are going to be punished....and it ain’t gonna be pleasant....The Bible is clear that Satan will be “ Tormented” for eternity .....I think Unbelievers will be tormented for a certain length of time and then they will “ Perish” —- they will cease to exist.Forever.

The truth is in the details.....Satan is not going to be tormented for all eternity......no one is. What on earth is accomplished by that?

Satan and his minions will languish in the abyss for a thousand years whilst the Kingdom re-establishes God's rulership over this earth, with Christ bringing redeemed mankind back to what Adam lost for them....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

Our Creator had no intentions to take anyone to heaven in the beginning because that is not our home......we are already living in it. Once it is cleaned up and God's pure worship is established on earth, after one final test, all will go back to the way it should have been in the first place. (Revelation 21:3-4) What God starts, he finishes.....(Isaiah 55:11)

 

[EloyCraft]

The best way to win a convert. The way Jesus did. When people sin against you realize it's an opportunity to forgive. The forgiveness of sin is how Jesus made converts. Not only that but by forgiving our life imitates Our Savior. Forgiveness conforms our lives to His.

 

[theefaith]

Sure there is! ASK.

“Anybody that * ASKS* to be Saved , WILL BE SAVED”


The Key to Christianity is seeing that you are a Sinner That needs a Savior....it was the entire POINT of THE LAW....Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” unless you knew how to use it.....if it leads you to Jesus, it has done its intended job.......Understand that you are a Lost Sinner who MUST have a Savior—- TURN ( Repent) to that Savior ( Jesus) and He will see to it that you get Saved ....if that means getting baptized, enduring until the end , repenting of your sins or standing on your head for 24 hours , it is up to HIM to see that your Salvation happens—- the onus is on Him to fulfill His Promise to Save you if you simply “ Turn to Him”—— His Word is at stake, and it is Impossible for God to lie.....

we believe and are baptized?