Best way to win converts

[amigo de christo]

Simply preach the Lord JESUS . Whoever hears amen and whoever rejects its on them .

 

[theefaith]

It appears that you “ forgot” to include Acts16:30—— “ What must I * DO* to be Saved? BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”.....

If there is anything that MUST be “ Done” , or if there is anything that must NOT be Done beyond this Promise , it will be+up to Jesus to see that it happens .....to put it rather crudely, the monkey is on HIS back.....He must Save us if we Believe that Jesus was Who He said He was — “ God's Son and our Savior” .....If He does not save once we Believe in Him, that would make Him a Liar....and He AINT a Liar....

Serious questions for you:

can you be saved without a priest?

can you be saved without baptism?

 

[Moonstone Eterni]

The United Methodist Church I attended left the denomination because of the practicing gay bishop that was overseeing them. What do you personally think about that?

Gluttony is a sin. If a UMC congregation decided to leave and form their own church because their bishop was super fat, what would you think about that?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Gluttony is a sin. If a UMC congregation decided to leave and form their own church because their bishop was super fat, what would you think about that?

Let's let the New Covenant tell us about food, then you be show me your scripture for your seemingly acceptance of homosexuality, without contradiction of other scriptures in the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 6:
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Serious questions for you:

can you be saved without a priest?

can you be saved without baptism?

Yes and yes.....the Thief on the Cross would agree...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes and yes.....the Thief on the Cross would agree...

Where does it say the thief on the cross was NOT baptized. It doesn't mention it at all to say one way or the other. Whether or not he was likely to have been baptized or not should be determined by what he said. I vote that he was.

42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

That is an odd thing to say to someone who is dying with you, unless his understanding of the kingdom was from God and He already accepted Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God.

 

[theefaith]

Yes and yes.....the Thief on the Cross would agree...

try again pal!

you are saying Jesus is not the savior?

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

baptism is not required until the new covenant and that requires the death of the savior heb 9:16-17

 

[Aunty Jane]

“ Tormented day and night forever”...... please explain the “ symbolism” in that.....I suppose one could call Christ’s crucifixion on the Cross and His Resurrection “ symbolic” too, if they chose to be blind to obvious truths...

Why the drama?
Bible study, rather than just Bible reading, reveals more than meets the eye.

The Greek word ba·sa·niʹzo (and related terms) occurs over 20 times in the NT Scriptures. It basically meant to “test by the proving stone [baʹsa·nos]” and, by extension, “examine or question by applying torture.” Lexicographers point out that in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used with the sense of ‘vexing with grievous pains; being harassed, distressed.’ (Matthew 8:29; Luke 8:29; Revelation 12:2)

In order to “torment” or torture people, they have to be alive. Since the ancient Jews had no belief in life after death except by resurrection, they believed that the dead were in a state of complete unconsciousness. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
The torment suffered by the Pharisees occurred as a result of Jesus’ preaching...he exposed them for the hypocrites they were, and it infuriated and tormented them. (Matthew 23:33) They were bound for “Gehenna” but their torment occurred whilst they were still alive in the flesh, but “dead” to God.

In one of his illustrations Jesus used dragnet fishing as a way to demonstrate what the preaching of the kingdom would achieve....
Matthew 13:47-50...
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind. When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (NLT)

What is the fiery furnace? It pictures the state of those who have been discarded by God. Jesus was preaching to Jews whose scripture did not teach that there was conscious life after death. As King David said of the dead....
Psalm 146:3-4...
“Don’t put your confidence in powerful people; there is no help for you there. When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them.” (NLT) This agrees with Solomon’s declaration in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 and also explains why he lamented that in death, humans have no advantage over the animals.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-22...
“For people and animals share the same fate—both breathe and both must die. So people have no real advantage over the animals. How meaningless! Both go to the same place—they came from dust and they return to dust. . . . So I saw that there is nothing better for people than to be happy in their work. That is our lot in life. And no one can bring us back to see what happens after we die.” (NLT)

So, there is Scriptural reason to believe that Revelation 20:10 does not talk about anyone being in torment after death. In fact, verse 14 shows that “the lake of fire” in which the “torment” occurs, actually means “the second death”....and there is no suffering after death.....because there is no immortal soul to suffer any torments. If a person is “dead” to God, then they are already in their figurative graves and some are “weeping and gnashing their teeth” whilst they are still breathing.

 

[JohnPaul]

You are concerned with “ Religion”—- Religion says “DO”.....

I am concerned with “ Christianity” —-Christianity says “ DONE”

Jesus was the One that defined “ The Will Of The Father”.....He could have said what YOU wanted Him to say, but He didn’t——Your argument is with Him—— not me....

You want to obey EVERYTHING He taught? OK.....sell everything you own and give it to the poor....If you have two cars and I ask for one of them, give me both of them.....If I slap you, do nothing but offer me the other cheek....if you look at something that is sinful, pluck out your eye.....I could go on....

If you aren’t able to these things that Jesus commanded ( in a nutshell, you are to be “PERFECT” ),there is a “ Loop- Hole”.......It’s called “ GRACE” ......you can obtain that Grace by simply Believing the Gospel .....you can find that in 1Cor15:1-4......Do that and God will put His Spirit in you and you will “ find yourself” doing the things that please God ....
Many of those things may not be what you expected them to be.....

Christianity says spread the word of God, and believe in his only begotten Son and that he died for us, so you may have life everlasting without perishing.

And who goes out and does these things and believes them and does it on their own time and not standing from some pulpit getting paid to do it?

Can you tell me this?

I know of only one Fellowship and Brotherhood who does this selflessly and willingly to teach us the true word of God, the one God and his only begotten Son Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Why the drama?
Bible study, rather than just Bible reading, reveals more than meets the eye.

The Greek word ba·sa·niʹzo (and related terms) occurs over 20 times in the NT Scriptures. It basically meant to “test by the proving stone [baʹsa·nos]” and, by extension, “examine or question by applying torture.” Lexicographers point out that in the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used with the sense of ‘vexing with grievous pains; being harassed, distressed.’ (Matthew 8:29; Luke 8:29; Revelation 12:2)

In order to “torment” or torture people, they have to be alive. Since the ancient Jews had no belief in life after death except by resurrection, they believed that the dead were in a state of complete unconsciousness. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
The torment suffered by the Pharisees occurred as a result of Jesus’ preaching...he exposed them for the hypocrites they were, and it infuriated and tormented them. (Matthew 23:33) They were bound for “Gehenna” but their torment occurred whilst they were still alive in the flesh, but “dead” to God.

In one of his illustrations Jesus used dragnet fishing as a way to demonstrate what the preaching of the kingdom would achieve....
Matthew 13:47-50...
“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that was thrown into the water and caught fish of every kind. When the net was full, they dragged it up onto the shore, sat down, and sorted the good fish into crates, but threw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (NLT)

What is the fiery furnace? It pictures the state of those who have been discarded by God. Jesus was preaching to Jews whose scripture did not teach that there was conscious life after death. As King David said of the dead....
Psalm 146:3-4...
“Don’t put your confidence in powerful people; there is no help for you there. When they breathe their last, they return to the earth, and all their plans die with them.” (NLT) This agrees with Solomon’s declaration in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 and also explains why he lamented that in death, humans have no advantage over the animals.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-22...
“For people and animals share the same fate—both breathe and both must die. So people have no real advantage over the animals. How meaningless! Both go to the same place—they came from dust and they return to dust. . . . So I saw that there is nothing better for people than to be happy in their work. That is our lot in life. And no one can bring us back to see what happens after we die.” (NLT)

So, there is Scriptural reason to believe that Revelation 20:10 does not talk about anyone being in torment after death. In fact, verse 14 shows that “the lake of fire” in which the “torment” occurs, actually means “the second death”....and there is no suffering after death.....because there is no immortal soul to suffer any torments. If a person is “dead” to God, then they are already in their figurative graves and some are “weeping and gnashing their teeth” whilst they are still breathing.

Despite the false charge of creating “ drama”, it sure is fun watching some people twist and complicate
the things that God has made so simple that a mere child could understand them.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Where does it say the thief on the cross was NOT baptized. It doesn't mention it at all to say one way or the other. Whether or not he was likely to have been baptized or not should be determined by what he said. I vote that he was.

42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

That is an odd thing to say to someone who is dying with you, unless his understanding of the kingdom was from God and He already accepted Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God.

Baptism was neither here nor there—-The Thief that got Saved started out cursing Jesus, just like the other guy did......What did he wind up doing that the other thief didn’t? He saw that he was a Sinner ( getting his just reward) and then He TURNED ( Repented) TO Jesus and
“Confessed with his mouth “ LORD Jesus” , proving that he BELIEVED that Jesus was Who He said He was ( God in the Flesh) .....asking Jesus to “ remember him” proved that He Believed That Jesus would return to life after his death.......He Believed in the Resurrection—- that’s essentially Believing the Gospel...

Turns out that the Thief got saved the same way that we do......in the end he “ did Gods Will”...... He “BELIEVED in the One that God sent”...... it worked then and it will work now.....” BELIEVE in the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”

To Repent literally means to “ Change One’s Mind” .......Both thieves began that day as Unbelievers .....one “ changed his mind” about Jesus and became a Believer .....that was enough.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

try again pal!

you are saying Jesus is not the savior?

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

baptism is not required until the new covenant and that requires the death of the savior heb 9:16-17

you are saying Jesus is not the savior?

Not the Savior? Yeah, right.....that’s what I said....NOT! Please elaborate .....your posts are confusing......pal....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Christianity says spread the word of God, and believe in his only begotten Son and that he died for us, so you may have life everlasting without perishing.

And who goes out and does these things and believes them and does it on their own time and not standing from some pulpit getting paid to do it?

Can you tell me this?

I know of only one Fellowship and Brotherhood who does this selflessly and willingly to teach us the true word of God, the one God and his only begotten Son Christ.

Who “ goes out and does these things” ......I do......any Believer can.....not really sure if I get your Point....care to elaborate?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

try again pal!

you are saying Jesus is not the savior?

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

baptism is not required until the new covenant and that requires the death of the savior heb 9:16-17

If baptism is “ required” ,why did Paul write that he “ was not sent to baptize”.....( Maybe because Jesus told him that one no longer had to get water baptized to receive the Holy Spirit —- all one had to do was to BELIEVE that He died for our sins and Rose from the Grave) .....or maybe 1Cor 15:1-4 is a lie...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

can you be saved without a priest?


I am very happy to report that tens of thousands of people are getting Saved * Despite* the Catholic Church and their many Perverted Priests....... ( “ let NO ONE call you ‘father’ )

 

[Aunty Jane]

Despite the false charge of creating “ drama”, it sure is fun watching some people twist and complicate the things that God has made so simple that a mere child could understand them.....

Which doesn't mean that you have to be child to understand the Bible's teachings. Those of us who bother to "make sure of all things" won't be stuck with a childish understanding of anything in God's word....

Paul wrote....
"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. . . . .Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love." (1Corinthians 13:8-13)

He also wrote...
"We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. 12 For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong." (Hebrews 5:11-14)

It's OK to be a spiritual infant to start with.....but it's not OK to remain one.....the "milk" of the word has to give way to the 'meat', once we are old enough to chew solid food. We grow in knowledge and faith, or we remain spiritual babies. You seem to want to stay in childlike ignorance.

A superficial faith or one not based on a sound knowledge of the scriptures, will never be sufficient to stay on the cramped and narrow road to life.
A faith that is based on falsehood, will not cut any mustard with our judge....he will decide who merits life and who doesn't.

 

[farouk]

If baptism is “ required” ,why did Paul write that he “ was not sent to baptize”.....( Maybe because Jesus told him that one no longer had to get water baptized to receive the Holy Spirit —- all one had to do was to BELIEVE that He died for our sins and Rose from the Grave) .....or maybe 1Cor 15:1-4 is a lie...

In Acts 2.41, those who gladly received his word were indeed baptized because they believed.

They were not baptized in order to try to become believers.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Baptism was neither here nor there—-The Thief that got Saved started out cursing Jesus, just like the other guy did......What did he wind up doing that the other thief didn’t? He saw that he was a Sinner ( getting his just reward) and then He TURNED ( Repented) TO Jesus and
“Confessed with his mouth “ LORD Jesus” , proving that he BELIEVED that Jesus was Who He said He was ( God in the Flesh) .....asking Jesus to “ remember him” proved that He Believed That Jesus would return to life after his death.......He Believed in the Resurrection—- that’s essentially Believing the Gospel...

The thief did not get "saved" by becoming a disciple of Christ and getting baptized....he will be among those resurrected in Paradise, the way Jews expected. (John 11:20-26)
He was not promised heaven, nor was he taken into the new covenant as a party to it like the apostles were and had the hope of being granted a spiritual resurrection to heaven as "kings and priests". (Revelation 20:6) The "elect" will have been "resurrected first".

With the establishment of God's Kingdom, Jesus will bring back all the dead whether they were believers or not.

John 5:28-29...
"Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment." (NASB)

All the dead are called from their tombs and will come out of them to a new life on earth. The good and the bad will return to life and be instructed in God's ways, having 'paid sin's wages', they are not "saved" unless they died faithful. The Kingdom will reign for 1000 years during which time the resurrected ones will undergo a period of judgment. These will have died in ignorance without ever having heard of Yahweh or his son. They will be given opportunity to gain everlasting life through the exercise of their free will.

Turns out that the Thief got saved the same way that we do......in the end he “ did Gods Will”...... He “BELIEVED in the One that God sent”...... it worked then and it will work now.....” BELIEVE in the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”

Since both the criminals hung alongside Jesus ridiculed him, when facing his own death, this one had a last minute change of heart. He asked Jesus to 'remember him when he got into his Kingdom'...Jesus then promised him that he would be "with" him in Paradise, but not that day.

The general resurrection of the dead was what this criminal understood, especially if he was Jewish. The Jews had no belief in going to heaven...that was never taught in their scripture. Jesus opened up that possibility by sacrificing his own life and being raised in a spirit body. His "elect" too would die the same death and would likewise be raised in a spirit body to rule with their Lord in heaven.

In the general resurrection of the dead, all are raised to life in the flesh to enjoy the earthly paradise that God intended for mankind all along. He will restore his first purpose and all will return to Edenic conditions on earth under the rule of Christ and his anointed ones. (Revelation 21:2-4) What God starts, he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11)

To Repent literally means to “ Change One’s Mind” .......Both thieves began that day as Unbelievers .....one “ changed his mind” about Jesus and became a Believer .....that was enough.

That is not the way it happened.....deathbed conversions are a myth, along with the idea that "believing" is all that is needed.

No one is in God's "book of life" unless they have proven faithful to death. (Revelation 20:12-15)

 

[JohnPaul]

Who “ goes out and does these things” ......I do......any Believer can.....not really sure if I get your Point....care to elaborate?

Who goes out and preaches like the Apostles did, door to door spreading the good word of God? Not many I know of except one fellowship of believers that are true to the word.

 

[theefaith]

Simply preach the Lord JESUS . Whoever hears amen and whoever rejects its on them .

A sacrament is an outward sign
Which is a gift from God to help our little minds see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.