The death penalty is a very controversial subject. The OT had the death penalty, however, the NT is quiet on this subject. What do you think? Oh, and remember to keep it based on the Scripture.
Death Penalty
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The OT death penalty was only for the Nation of Israel, under the Law of Moses. Nobody else is under the Law of Moses. All we have now are corrupt court systems. How can any Christian be for the death penalty?
I have no problem with the death penalty as long as there is absolutely no doubt that the person who did the brutal murder is the one actually convicted.
But if I was in charge I would give them life with no chance of parole - at hard labor.
Very few priviledges but enough where if they did not cooperate there was something that could be taken away that would indeed impact them.
I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrance because people know that they have a better chance of dying on death row of old age because of the appeal process than actually being put to death.
And there is always the chance that a liberal Governor will commute their sentence, etc.
But knowing that they are going to spend the next 30-40 years actually having to get up early - work hard all day - and go to bed with nothing to look forward but doing it again the next day - I think THAT would give people definite pause.
But if I was in charge I would give them life with no chance of parole - at hard labor.
Very few priviledges but enough where if they did not cooperate there was something that could be taken away that would indeed impact them.
I don't think that the death penalty is a deterrance because people know that they have a better chance of dying on death row of old age because of the appeal process than actually being put to death.
And there is always the chance that a liberal Governor will commute their sentence, etc.
But knowing that they are going to spend the next 30-40 years actually having to get up early - work hard all day - and go to bed with nothing to look forward but doing it again the next day - I think THAT would give people definite pause.
Hey, that is a great thinking. Interestingly, I read a book about Frank Abagnale. He was a top line scammer who got away with millions of dollars. He was arrested and made to serve a prison sentence in France. The conditions were apalling, what we would call inhumane. He, however, said that perhaps that was how jails were suppose to be. Apparently, in the USA, prisons have a 37 billion dollar economy! I think that's extravagant! In some other places, jail is the last place you want to be, because you're lucky to get bread and water that's clean!
Excellent reasoning. Fully agree, although I'm probably leaning more to the death penalty's use.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Death Penalty actually costs more than life in prison.
Too much racism and class-ism involved in our justice system to trust it to determine a death sentence,
I believe life is sacred.
Too much racism and class-ism involved in our justice system to trust it to determine a death sentence,
I believe life is sacred.
discipleHelovestoo
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- May 14, 2011
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Genesis 2:17 KJVR
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
if God says 'do this and you die' and people do it anyway, then i think it's safe to say that the death penalty is not a deterent.
1 Samuel 16:7 KJVR
(7) But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
If only God can see the heart, then what man is qulified to say that another should be slain? What is the example of the Master toward murderers?
Luke 23:34 KJVR
(34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
locked up - yes, if judged by the leading of the Lord and according to the governemtal law of men. punishhed? which one here, outside of grace, doesn't deserve to be sick and broke the rest of their miserable lives and then die and go to hell for eternity? but yet constrained from acting out violence against the innocent, to give the gospel time to work.
GLY!!!
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
if God says 'do this and you die' and people do it anyway, then i think it's safe to say that the death penalty is not a deterent.
1 Samuel 16:7 KJVR
(7) But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
If only God can see the heart, then what man is qulified to say that another should be slain? What is the example of the Master toward murderers?
Luke 23:34 KJVR
(34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
locked up - yes, if judged by the leading of the Lord and according to the governemtal law of men. punishhed? which one here, outside of grace, doesn't deserve to be sick and broke the rest of their miserable lives and then die and go to hell for eternity? but yet constrained from acting out violence against the innocent, to give the gospel time to work.
GLY!!!
Only God knows all the details of a 'crime'. Jurors do not. They only get what they are told and OFTEN by liars, including prosecutors, judges and attorneys. The system is nearly totally corrupt. With DNA evidence it has been determined that some have been executed who were innocent. Humans are corrupt and liars. I could never sentence anyone to death based upon what I have been told. Christians are not called to determine punishment for 'crimes'.
About whether Christians are not called to determine punishment, Samuel himself, killed Agag, the evil king of the amaelekites. He didn't just kill him, he hewed him in pieces! That sounds really gory! Jesus himself went into the temple and threw out those who were making money out of the Temple. As far as i can see, he was giving them punishment as well. I understand what you are saying, but there comes a point where we must be asked, at what point is love wrong? You see, it's because of God's love that he WILL send people to Hell. His love demands that he punish those who defy him. I am of the persuasion that in some cases the death penalty is the only way out. Especially if the murder was in cold-blood and the person who did it has no remorse and the evidence points squarely at that person. The issue we have today is we have made our crime system TOO complicated, and we have left the laws God set, and we have put our own ones there. In Norway, the maximum prison sentence is 21 years! Hows that! If you take a life that was not yours to take in the first place, I would say that the Bible system of paying back is completely sound. If you take a life that isn't yours to take (by this I'm referring to cold-blooded murder, not industrial accidents and such) (if we look at that scripturally, we are not to take any life, not even our own!) it is perfectly in line with the Bible that the murderer pays for what he did with his life.
I'm not sure if I stated it, but I would not apply the death sentence until it is 100% clear that the murderer is guilty. In many cases, the murderer fully admits, and with our fickle law system, gets off with murder for just a few years in a cosy prison! In one horrific case here in Australia, a mother burnt her sons to death in a car so they could go to heaven! You know what they did to her? They put her in a mental asylum since she wasn't quite right in the head! How nice. I would have no qualms about giving the death penalty to such cold-blooded murder.
That's where we tread on tricky ground. What we deal with now is not so clear cut. We have messed our society up so effectively! I think that if she was maybe that could be taken into consideration, but there comes a certain point that we must step down and say no. You see, there's nothing wrong with drinking wine, but if you go ahead and make yourself drunk, and kill someone while driving, you ARE responsible for what you did. Yes, it is wrong to be drunk, i was just using that as an example. Ultimately, people are responsible for what they did. The meltdown in today's society is because we cannot take responsibility and accept the consequences. Nowadays, if you flunk at something, it's fully acceptable to blame your home, your environment, etc. The truth is, someone can grow up with an abusive father, a cold mother, and have no education, and still become a good citizen. It's that person's choice.
Do we also execute adulterers, homosexuals and those of other religions as Moses commanded?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The only time that the death penalty has actually been proven to be a deterent is for prisoners who are serving long sentences and recruited to commit crimes in prison.
I've worked with people with mental illness in mental institutions.....it is not a fun place to be for the rest of your life. I worked with one women who believed she murdered her son and was going to Hell - in reality, she had no children. Medication can treat hallucinations, but does nothing for delusions (false beliefs).
Um...have you ever had a dream so vivid that you thought it was real? Now imagine that same dream really happened, but you thought you were dreaming - welcome to mental illness. Reality cannot be trusted because it is mixed with dreams.
I've worked with people with mental illness in mental institutions.....it is not a fun place to be for the rest of your life. I worked with one women who believed she murdered her son and was going to Hell - in reality, she had no children. Medication can treat hallucinations, but does nothing for delusions (false beliefs).
Um...have you ever had a dream so vivid that you thought it was real? Now imagine that same dream really happened, but you thought you were dreaming - welcome to mental illness. Reality cannot be trusted because it is mixed with dreams.
Excellent point. I love this type of discussion! lol. To speak from a Christian viewpoint, I would say no. It is amazing what can happen when Jesus touches a life.
Interestingly, while some called it harsh, I think that back then, the crime rate was not bad at all! You will note, however, that once Israel stopped following God, total anarchy took place. While those laws were harsh, they were instituted by a God who knows humanity better than any human.
I wouldn't. When it comes to murder, i think it is alot more serious because it is taking the life of someone else. Adulterers, homosexuals, and such still sin in God's eyes, but they do not take the lives of others.
Ultimately, the glaring fact that is confronting us, is we are in a seriously sick world that is fast spiralling down into complete moral depravity.
We are a lost race. Without Jesus we will eventually fall apart, for he is holding us together, and we are seeing right now in our society. When judgement day comes, I don't think anyone is going to be able to give an excuse for what they did. They won't be able to blame their tradition, their parents, their environment, their health.
There are serious problems with Christians supporting the death penalty. Very serious. The NT in no way supports Christians killing anyone for any reason.
I don't think it says anything about it at all! Considering that the majority of people are not Christian, I would assume that this law is still very relevant. As I have previously stated, people must be held responsible for the actions or there will be total chaos just like there is now. On the side, I think that such a thing will happen, but when it does, Christians will also be on the black list, but that's a topic for another day
Actually the NT says quite a bit about Christians are not to kill anyone, even our enemies.
I can't think of any atm, if you could put up some references that would be great. I've run out of computer time so I can't look into it.
One thing, I'm not thinking ideally here. An ideal society would be great. I'm talking about the current society that has a spiralling crime rate.
P.S. I do know about how we are to show mercy, etc.
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