Is Jesus God?

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Is Jesus God?


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Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Sorry, but I have been taught the word and Holy Spirit reveals all truth. To believe that redeemed, glorified humans will be worshiped by mortal humans, during the Millennial Kingdom is not of God, and nothing He has ever said in His voluminous word can attest to that false belief.

Even deceivers would make the claim that what they are teaching is from the Holy Spirit…….show me a person that has been mislead that does not believe that what they believe is not supported in the Bible? But you go to such lengths to twist Jesus' own words so that you can now say that He never said what He clearly said.....He said He would make people come and worship before the feet of the saints.....you are saying that it’s a lie that people are only going do it for Jesus. The only difference between you and those who don’t believe that Jesus is God is that you chose a different scripture to disbelieve and twist.
 

Lively Stone

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Jan 15, 2012
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Even deceivers would make the claim that what they are teaching is from the Holy Spirit…….show me a person that has been mislead that does not believe that what they believe is not supported in the Bible? But you go to such lengths to twist Jesus' own words so that you can now say that He never said what He clearly said.....He said He would make people come and worship before the feet of the saints.....you are saying that it’s a lie that people are only going do it for Jesus. The only difference between you and those who don’t believe that Jesus is God is that you chose a different scripture to disbelieve and twist.

Nothing has been twisted, except the one who says that we will be worshiped by people. Only Jesus is worthy to be worshiped.

Where God has said that people will come to worship before the saints only speaks to the FACT that we will be present with Jesus when the nations come to worship and bow before Him. We will be sitting as judges and priests and kings ourselves as the government---in service to the King whom WE WILL WORSHIP ALSO! These people will come to the temple to worship King Jesus, and at the same time declare that we are His beloved! That is not worship.

Enough of this crazy off-topic nonsense.
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Nothing has been twisted, except the one who says that we will be worshiped by people. Only Jesus is worthy to be worshiped.

Where God has said that people will come to worship before the saints only speaks to the FACT that we will be present with Jesus when the nations come to worship and bow before Him. We will be sitting as judges and priests and kings ourselves as the government---in service to the King whom WE WILL WORSHIP ALSO! These people will come to the temple to worship King Jesus, and at the same time declare that we are His beloved! That is not worship.

Enough of this crazy off-topic nonsense.

Where in the Bible did you read where it said that? If you are not twisting the scripture then show me a scripture that would support that statement that that is the reason. That is not what Jesus said, so where did you get that from? You will not even find in the Bible where God said it is a sin to worship another human being. Anyone that studies the scriptures will read where kings were worshiped.
 

Lively Stone

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Where in the Bible did you read where it said that? If you are not twisting the scripture then show me a scripture that would support that statement that that is the reason. That is not what Jesus said, so where did you get that from? You will not even find in the Bible where God said it is a sin to worship another human being. Anyone that studies the scriptures will read where kings were worshiped.

That is what it says. People will come to worship the King and invariably we will be right there in the middle of things, but the bowing will be before the Lord Jesus Christ, make no mistake about that.

No one who worships anyone alongside or in place of Jesus is NOT sinning! That is a completely biblical teaching. Any promotion of human worship is a heretical act.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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Where in the Bible did you read where it said that? If you are not twisting the scripture then show me a scripture that would support that statement that that is the reason. That is not what Jesus said, so where did you get that from? You will not even find in the Bible where God said it is a sin to worship another human being. Anyone that studies the scriptures will read where kings were worshiped.

Psa 81:9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.

Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Where in the Bible did you read where it said that? If you are not twisting the scripture then show me a scripture that would support that statement that that is the reason. That is not what Jesus said, so where did you get that from? You will not even find in the Bible where God said it is a sin to worship another human being. Anyone that studies the scriptures will read where kings were worshiped.

How about we see some of your scriptures?
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Psa 81:9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.

If you notice God was talking about gods made by man out of wood, stone and whatever else.

Mat_4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.



How about we see some of your scriptures?

Satan wanted Jesus to worship him but Jesus told Satan that its the other way around. Angels were not created to be worshiped......they are only servants sent out to minister to those who will inherit salvation. Man was made for a higher purpose than angels.....as I said before, human beings are now part of the Godhead.


Below both God and the king, which is David is worshipped here in this gathering as it says.


1 Chronicles 29:20 (ASV)
[sup]20 [/sup]And David said to all the assembly, Now bless Jehovah your God. And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped Jehovah, and the king.
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Isaiah 42:8 (AMP)

I am the Lord; that is my name.
I will not give my glory to anyone else
or the praise I deserve to idols.


God is referring to pagan gods. In the New Testament it clearly tells us that we will be like Jesus and will see Him the way He is. To be like Jesus is the same as being like God......we will share His glory.

1 John 3:2 (ASV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
 

Lively Stone

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Jan 15, 2012
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God is referring to pagan gods. In the New Testament it clearly tells us that we will be like Jesus and will see Him the way He is. To be like Jesus is the same as being like God......we will share His glory.

1 John 3:2 (ASV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

Yes! We will be like Jesus! We will share in His glory, and share His reign, but we will, just as the angels do, defer all to Jesus Christ as worthy of all worship.

We should not mistake what the bible says about us being as gods---rulers and judges with Christ---as worthy of worship (for we all should be aware that there are no such things as gods beside the One True God!). That is a huge error, and needs correction. However, it looks as though correction is being refused. Too bad.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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If you notice God was talking about gods made by man out of wood, stone and whatever else.



Satan wanted Jesus to worship him but Jesus told Satan that its the other way around. Angels were not created to be worshiped......they are only servants sent out to minister to those who will inherit salvation. Man was made for a higher purpose than angels.....as I said before, human beings are now part of the Godhead.


Below both God and the king, which is David is worshipped here in this gathering as it says.


1 Chronicles 29:20 (ASV)
[sup]20 [/sup]And David said to all the assembly, Now bless Jehovah your God. And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped Jehovah, and the king.

Really? How about the imaginations that Christians are suppose to throw down?

2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

I'd love to see some Scripture back-up, but as I have duly noticed, very few 'Christians' actually back up their doctrine with Scripture, and many who do make sure they are selective. Show me back-up, solid back-up.

As to the verse you used, there are serious objections. Definitely not something to make up a doctrine from!

1. This verse is telling a story. It doesn't condone or condemn what the people do. Even if they did place David higher than God, what difference does that make to us? NOTHING! When you stand before God, you won't be able to pass off anything. The buck rests with you. There are no directions in this verse, just a simple telling of what happened.

2. What type of worship was rendered to whom? The notes of John Wesley state: "Worshipped - The Lord with religious, and the king with civil worship.

Conclusion: This verse of Scripture tells what happened. It gives no directions that we can use as direct proof, but rather assumptions which are violently contradicted by Scripture. All throughout Scripture we read of a God who is superior to us in every way, his name is Jesus, and he will never change. For those who think that gods are only physical, they aren't. 2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Scripture talks about a man CREATED by a CREATOR for the CREATOR'S PLEASURE.
Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

There is ONE man in the WHOLE history of the world who will have the power to open the book and read it. Jesus. There is no way that we have been equal to him, are equal to him, or EVER WILL BE!
Glory to his name. Amen.
 
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Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Yes! We will be like Jesus! We will share in His glory, and share His reign, but we will, just as the angels do, defer all to Jesus Christ as worthy of all worship.

To be like Him means being like Him. Meaning, what He is so will we be. It makes no sense to be like Jesus and not share all the qualities that He has. The problem is Christians have been lead to believe that when it says what it says it really does not means that.


We should not mistake what the bible says about us being as gods---rulers and judges with Christ---as worthy of worship (for we all should be aware that there are no such things as gods beside the One True God!). That is a huge error, and needs correction. However, it looks as though correction is being refused. Too bad.

That is not how its worded.....it does not say being as gods. Jesus quoted the Old Testament by saying "you are gods". The word that is used for gods is the exact same word that is used for God.....Elohim. But like so many you don't want to believe because it does not agree with what you are told in Church. You should let the word of God teach you rather than whatever the pastor might say.
 

Buzzfruit

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
773
6
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Bronx, New York, U.S.A
Really? How about the imaginations that Christians are suppose to throw down?

2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

I'd love to see some Scripture back-up, but as I have duly noticed, very few 'Christians' actually back up their doctrine with Scripture, and many who do make sure they are selective. Show me back-up, solid back-up.

As to the verse you used, there are serious objections. Definitely not something to make up a doctrine from!

1. This verse is telling a story. It doesn't condone or condemn what the people do. Even if they did place David higher than God, what difference does that make to us? NOTHING! When you stand before God, you won't be able to pass off anything. The buck rests with you. There are no directions in this verse, just a simple telling of what happened.

2. What type of worship was rendered to whom? The notes of John Wesley state: "Worshipped - The Lord with religious, and the king with civil worship.

Conclusion: This verse of Scripture tells what happened. It gives no directions that we can use as direct proof, but rather assumptions which are violently contradicted by Scripture. All throughout Scripture we read of a God who is superior to us in every way, his name is Jesus, and he will never change. For those who think that gods are only physical, they aren't. 2Co_10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; Scripture talks about a man CREATED by a CREATOR for the CREATOR'S PLEASURE.
Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

There is ONE man in the WHOLE history of the world who will have the power to open the book and read it. Jesus. There is no way that we have been equal to him, are equal to him, or EVER WILL BE!
Glory to his name. Amen.


I told you that kings were worshipped and you ask me to prove it with scriptures and I gave you one example. I could even have shown you of even Nebuchadnezzar worshipping Daniel after he told him the meaning of his dream…..and Daniel said nothing against it. And the scripture that I post saying that they worshipped God and the king did not say they placed David above God....if it was wrong for them to do what they did David would have told them not to do it.
 

Lively Stone

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Jan 15, 2012
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To be like Him means being like Him. Meaning, what He is so will we be. It makes no sense to be like Jesus and not share all the qualities that He has. The problem is Christians have been lead to believe that when it says what it says it really does not means that.




That is not how its worded.....it does not say being as gods. Jesus quoted the Old Testament by saying "you are gods". The word that is used for gods is the exact same word that is used for God.....Elohim. But like so many you don't want to believe because it does not agree with what you are told in Church. You should let the word of God teach you rather than whatever the pastor might say.

Yes, we will share everything He has...it is our new birthright. However, Jesus is Lord.

(By the way, 'elohim' also means 'judges' or 'magistrates', which we will be in the Kingdom!)

What I have been taught in 'church' is the word, rightly divided. Do you belong to a church? I doubt it, as you tend to speak with disadain about it. It is useless to argue or debate with people who disobey God and reject the Body of Christ.
 

Wayne

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John 3:16
For God so love the world he gave is bergoten son......

Answer is simple no.
 

Lively Stone

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Jan 15, 2012
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John 3:16
For God so love the world he gave is bergoten son......

Answer is simple no.


This is an erroneous conclusion.


Isaiah 7:14 (GNT)

[sup]14[/sup] Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him
Immanuel.


Matthew 1:23 (GNT)

[sup]23[/sup]
A virgin will become pregnant and have a son, and he will be called Immanuel (which means,
God is with us).



Isaiah 9:6 (NLT)

[sup]6[/sup] For a child is born to us,
a son is given to us.
The government will rest on his shoulders.
And he will be called:
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father
, Prince of Peace.
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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Yes, we will share everything He has...it is our new birthright. However, Jesus is Lord.


Of course Jesus is Lord but so are we. Have not you read in the Bible where it says we have been crowned kings and priest and we shall reign on Earth? A king is lord.....to have dominion means you are lord.....only lords have dominion not servants.


This is the elders or the Church symbolically speaking here below.

Revelation 5:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."


Did you missed the fact that when God made human beings one of the things He said was let them have dominion over everything on the Earth?

Genesis 1:26 (ASV)
[sup]26 [/sup]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


To be like Jesus means that you have all the rights and authority that He has......Jesus is our older brother and His Father is our Father.

John 20:17 (ASV)
[sup]17 [/sup]Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.


Jesus is our king/Lord or King of kings because we will be kings under Him. But His Kingship does not nullify the fact that we too will be the same. The kingdom of God is simply God's children ruling in His kingdom over all things.....God's children are His royal family.

(By the way, 'elohim' also means 'judges' or 'magistrates', which we will be in the Kingdom!)

What I have been taught in 'church' is the word, rightly divided. Do you belong to a church? I doubt it, as you tend to speak with disadain about it. It is useless to argue or debate with people who disobey God and reject the Body of Christ.

No matter how you might want to put it its still the same......God is judge, or magistrate and so are we. Mankind has been given dominion or is a judge or is god over the Earth and will also be given dominion beyond the Earth as well.
 

Lively Stone

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There is only ONE LORD!

Jesus Christ the Lord of all. We must pull back from the desire to over-elevate ourselves, which is exactly what you are doing, Buzzfruit. That is reminiscent of the sin of Lucifer. Be careful!
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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There is only ONE LORD!

Jesus Christ the Lord of all. We must pull back from the desire to over-elevate ourselves, which is exactly what you are doing, Buzzfruit. That is reminiscent of the sin of Lucifer. Be careful!

If God's word says we are kings and that man was made to have dominion how is that over elevating one's self? It is God that has exalted man to His level.
 

Lively Stone

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If God's word says we are kings and that man was made to have dominion how is that over elevating one's self? It is God that has exalted man to His level.

We are kings and priests of God, and will fill those very roles in the literal earthly Kingdom one day. However, to say we are Lord is overreaching. We share authority with Christ, all the while He is still the Lord and Christ...and THE KING OF ALL KINGS.
 

Buzzfruit

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Aug 21, 2011
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We are kings and priests of God, and will fill those very roles in the literal earthly Kingdom one day. However, to say we are Lord is overreaching. We share authority with Christ, all the while He is still the Lord and Christ...and THE KING OF ALL KINGS.

The scripture says we have been crowed kings. It is not a future office it starts today, in this pressent life. Though we are ruling as kings over the Nations at this time but we will be when Jesus returns, and we are given a glorified body like His and New and glorified brain to go with that body. And Jesus cannot be King of kings if He is the only king.
 
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