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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

    90.5%
  2. No

    9.5%
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  1. Hollyrock

    Hollyrock New Member

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    Jesus is most certainly God
     
    aspen likes this.
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Amen!
     
  3. HeRoseFromTheDead

    HeRoseFromTheDead Not So Advanced Member

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    This sounds like ideas set forth in the Ancient Hebrew Lexicon. Am I correct?
     
  4. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    If God called men gods then how can anyone that knows the scripture say that Jesus is not God?
     
  5. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    In the instance where God referred to men as gods, it was referring to them as judges, which is the context of Psalm 82, 1hich is the source of that notion.

    Psalm 82

    A psalm of Asaph.
    [sup]1[/sup] God presides over heaven’s court;
    he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:
    [sup]2[/sup] “How long will you hand down unjust decisions
    by favoring the wicked?
    Interlude
    [sup]3[/sup] “Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
    uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.
    [sup]4[/sup] Rescue the poor and helpless;
    deliver them from the grasp of evil people.
    [sup]5[/sup] But these oppressors know nothing;
    they are so ignorant!
    They wander about in darkness,
    while the whole world is shaken to the core.
    [sup]6[/sup] I say, ‘You are gods;
    you are all children of the Most High.
    [sup]7[/sup] But you will die like mere mortals
    and fall like every other ruler.’”
    [sup]8[/sup] Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
    for all the nations belong to you.
     
  6. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    That is what you may want to believe but that is not what Jesus meant. Jesus was telling them that He was the Son of God, and they realize that meant He was God as well and mean that He was equal to God. So He quoted them the Old Testament showing them that God said that they were gods. Both Hebrew and the Greek the word that is translated God does not mean Judge but God......it can technically at the bottom end be translated as that but at the top end it means God or gods. Look at it for yourself.

    John 10:34 (KJV)
    [sup]34 [/sup]Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    gods
    Greek Word: θεός
    Transliteration: theos
    Phonetic Pronunciation:theh'-os
    Root: of uncertain affinity, a deity, especially (with <G3588>) the supreme Divinity
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 3:65,322
    Part of Speech: n m
    Vine's Words: God



    of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with <G3588> (ho)) the supreme Divinity; figurative a magistrate; by Hebrew very :- × exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary


    God made man(kind) to be the supreme being over His creation.....even over angels. It is human beings that are destined to rule over all things with God......study the scriptures and you will see. Even as we speak it is Jesus whom is not only God but fully a human being that is upholding all things by the word of His power. We are not there yet but we see Jesus who was made to be like us whom is in glory and is sustaining all things, and the scripture tells us that we will be like Him for we will see Him as He is.


    Psalms 82:6 (KJV)
    [sup]6 [/sup]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    gods
    Hebrew Word: ‏אֱלֹהִים‎
    Transliteration: ʾelōhîm
    Phonetic Pronunciation:el-o-heem'
    Root: plural of <H433>
    Cross Reference: TWOT - 93c
    Part of Speech: n m p
    Vine's Words: None



    plural of <H433> ('elowahh); gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative :- angels, × exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), × (very) great, judges, × mighty.

    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

    Why do you think God would use the very same word that applies to Him and use it to apply to humans? Do you know? Let me give you a hint: God said let us make man in our image according to our likeness. Truth can be stranger than fiction.....there are things in the Bible that some Christians are unable to handle because it goes against what they are told in Church.
     
  7. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    H430
    אלהים
    'ĕlôhîym
    el-o-heem'
    Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


    In Psalm 82 and elsewhere it is understood that God is referring to men as jusges, as in the above, 'magistrates'. Jesus was taking advantage of His listeners' false interpretation, just like people of today.
     
  8. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Why would the exact same word mean one thing when referring to God but means something else when its used for human beings? What other word in the Bible do you see that? God is called Father in the Bible so does that mean the word father means a different thing when applied to God than it does a human father? Is Jesus really a human being or not? The problem with many Christians is that they pick and chose scriptures to believe.

    The question we should ask is why would God call human beings 'ĕlôhîym and not try to say that is not what He meant. Jesus was quoting the scriptures and He said the scriptures cannot be brocken.
     
  9. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Why? Do you believe we are gods? It is wisdom that teaches us to evaluate all things.
     
  10. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    I believe what the scriptures say. If God said we are gods then that is what we are. Where do you think we came from? We came from God. The spirit that all human beings have came from God. The scripture says that at death the spirit goes back to God. God took of Himself and put it in man. Why do you think Jesus said that saints will be worshiped when they are glorified? Jesus is our elder brother and He came from God and put on humanity. God and man has become one......what Jesus is is what we are to become.
     
  11. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    God does not consider us as gods in the sense of deities. He considers us 'gods' in the sense of righteousness and righteous judging. He says that one day we will judge angels, as a redeemed creation higher than they in authority.


    1 Corinthians 6:3 (NLT)

    [sup]3[/sup] Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.



    Whatever scriptures you are using to defend the statement that we will be worshiped, please present it here. I think I may know what you may be referring to, but please let's see it.
     
  12. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Here it is. Notice the similarities between the two verses. The top one is talking about the saints and the one below it is talking about Jesus.




    Revelation 3:9 (KJV)
    [sup]9 [/sup]Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.



    Revelation 15:4 (KJV)
    [sup]4 [/sup]Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
     
  13. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Revelation 3:9 (AMP)

    [sup]9[/sup]Take note! I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet and learn and acknowledge that I have loved you.


    This whole scenario is not one of WORSHIP, but of what will happen at the occasion of worship. We, the redeemed, will be ruling with Christ---we will be the governing authority, and as such will be receiving due respect of the people we will be governing. Those who missed the boat, and have rejected salvation will certainly have occasion to reflect on their poor decisions in life, and they will see what glory Jesus Christ bestows on those He calls His own, praise God!
     
  14. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    That is what you say - the scripture says different. You can't accept what is plain for anyone that is willing to see so you chose to say it is saying something else. The word that is translated worship in Revelation 3:9 is the same Greek word that is use in Revelation 15:4which is talking about Jesus. When one worship God they are showing respect and reverence. The saints will receive the same.....remember what I said before.....God and man has become one…..man is now part of the Godhead.


    What do you think Jesus meant when He prayed that the He, the Father and the Holy Spirit would dwell in His people.....that just as the Father dwelled in the Son and the Son in the Father, so does the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit dwells in His people and they in God. Remember, also when Paul was persecuting the Church, what did Jesus say to Paul? Did He not say, " Why are you persecuting me?” We and God are one. So what they will do for Jesus they will also do for the saints.


    Many Christians read the Bible but they don’t make the connections with the scriptures, so many things goes swoosh straight over their heads never knowing what was right before their eyes.



    Worship:

    Greek Word: &pi;ροσκυ&nu;έω
    Transliteration: proskyneō
    Phonetic Pronunciation:pros-koo-neh'-o
    Root: from <G4314> and a probable derivative of <G2965> (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand)
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:758,948
    Part of Speech: v
    Vine's Words: Worship, Worshiping
    Usage Notes:
    English Words used in KJV:


    from <G4314> (pros) and a probably derivative of <G2965> (kuon) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literal or figurative) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore) :- worship.
    — Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary
     
  15. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    If Jesus is not God, we are all confused Buddhists.
     
  16. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Rev 3:9

    Behold,2400 I will make1325 them3588 of1537 the3588 synagogue4864 of Satan,4567 which say3004 they1438 are1511 Jews,2453 and2532 are1526 not,3756 but235 do lie;5574 behold,2400 I will make4160 them846 to2443 come2240 and2532 worship4352 before1799 thy4675 feet,4228 and2532 to know1097 that3754 I1473 have loved25 thee.4571


    When people of the nations come to worship, they will be worshiping Jesus Christ alone. We will be there with Him as His co-rulers. They will not be worshiping us. They will be worshiping Jesus the King, and acknowledging our rightful faith, and that we will have received our just reward based on the love we have for Jesus Christ.

    All that's needed concerning this small passage is a bit of tweaking in the area of discernment
     
  17. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    That is the problem with some Christians. If the scriptures don't say what they want it to say the tweak it as you all it……that is like cheating in order to get what you want. But I don't see anywhere in the scripture that say we need to tweak the scriptures. This is one the reasons why I study the Bible for myself rather than take anyone's word for it that what they are saying is in the Bible.

    So you can say or tweak it anyway you want it still won't be what the scripture say. At this point in time you cannot receive it because it is too unbelievable for you to believe..period.
     
  18. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    The tweaking needs to be in the discernment department. Nowhere in any scripture will you ever find that human beings are to be worshiped---EVER. Only God, who says He will not share His glory with another.

    In Christ's Kingdom, the nations will come to worship the King, and they will bow before Him---we will be with Him and we will witness their recognition that we are the favoured and loved of the Lord.

    In order to believe that humans will be worshiped in the Kingdom of Christ involves misappropriation of scripture in relation to the whole counsel of the word, and a certain tweaking of one's own.
     
  19. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    There is always the rationalizing by those who twist the scriptures to justify twisting the scriptures to say what it does not say. I understand that you cannot receive it because this is not what you have been taught in Church……you will only believe what they tell you in Church to believe.
     
  20. Lively Stone

    Lively Stone New Member

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    Sorry, but I have been taught the word and Holy Spirit reveals all truth. To believe that redeemed, glorified humans will be worshiped by mortal humans, during the Millennial Kingdom is not of God, and nothing He has ever said in His voluminous word can attest to that false belief.
     
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