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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

    90.5%
  2. No

    9.5%
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  1. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    When you say "Jewish concept", that of course has to refer to what point in their history? The traditions of the Pharisees and Sadduccees which began during their 70 years captivity to Babylon, a time of corruptions within the priesthood up to the time of Christ's first coming.

    I agree, Christ's disciples did not understand the full concept, yet... it was declared to them through Isaiah and the other prophets already though. It was already written, which only later began to be discovered when The New Covenant came by Christ's death and Resurrection.
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Good point about the Jewish priesthood. The verse in Isaiah is compelling.

    Here is a link to a Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 9:6

    http://www.truthnet.org/TheMessiah/7_Messiah_Objections_Isaiah/
     
  3. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    They will even if they refuse to accept their purpose that God has made them for. But its more than a lack of adoration.....it is not believing the message that He preached......Jesus and the Father wants us to believe the message that the Father sent by Jesus.
     
  4. judd

    judd Member

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    it's so painful when we argue about who we believe in. does god still speak audibly to anyone today? if he does, then ask him for truth. i believe we are all serving one creator but it seems some of us are confused! IF you think you are confused, just ask god..............................why!!!
     
  5. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    If you believe you are hearing from God in an audible voice then I suggest you cut back on the extra anchovies on your next pizza. Just trying to help.
     
  6. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Are we not all gods..

    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Psalms 82:6

    The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; - John 10:33-35

    But God the Father is the one above all. Even as Jesus testifies...

    Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28
     
  7. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I do believe in deification - but that only means that we will once again become fully human, which compared to our present state, is godlike. We will be able to love perfectly, but we will never be God or a minor god. There is only one God and He does not share worship with anyone. To be a god means that we will be worthy of worship. This is Mormon doctrine, not Christian.
     
  8. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Hi Everyone, I'm back, and WOW!
    You know, when I posted this topic, I never imagined that it would accumulate into such a huge discussion. lol.

    I could get into so much detail if I had the time, but I think the argument of whether Jesus is God or not is settled with one question, and a little bit of common sense.

    Is the Bible INFALLIBLE?

    If your answer is no, then I really don't see the point in continuing this conversation.

    If your answer is yes, then check out what this verse claims about Jesus:

    1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Jesus is the ONLY Potentate, the KING of kings, the LORD of lords, the ONLY IMMORTAL. I think that makes him God, because according to this verse, no one else is immortal. Let me agree with Paul here with a very loud and emphatic, "Amen!"

    Joses
     
  9. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Hi GZ!
    I sure did miss ya! Hope you are well lil buddie! ^_^

    Re: your thread...surprising isn't it! -

    Amen and amen! welcome back! :)
     
  10. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    ALL those type references Jesus The Christ gave were for while He was on earth in a flesh body like ours. His Spirit was still God's Spirit even then though. But a separateness was shown at His first coming for the purpose of the crucifying of His given flesh body. The Hebrews Scripture points this idea out more, both declaring how all things were created through Christ Jesus, but that for the suffering of flesh death, He was incarnated in flesh like ours in order to defeat death and the devil for us.

    One of the major problems one gets into with thinking that Jesus Christ is not God having come in the flesh, is that it would mean God did not send us The Saviour as He promised per the OT prophesied signs. If that were true, then we have no Salvation. The only default would be to think that we can save our own selves. That idea then leads back to the serpent's temptation in God's Garden, the falsehood that we can become our own God and to save ourselves. This is why all are required to believe on The Father through... His Son Jesus Christ. It's because through Christ Jesus is HOW The Father chose to represent Himself as our Saviour. And by the servants of the devil having crucified Him upon the cross, that sealed the fate of all those who refuse God's Way of Salvation through His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ.
     
  11. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    lol. Thanx
     
  12. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    I agree with you Veteran... just to add to what you have been saying, God said
    his name was " I AM". There is revelation in Exodus 3:14,

    14 And God said unto Moses, I AM that I AM: and he said,
    Thus shall thy say unto the children of Israel, I AM has sent
    me unto you.

    He went on to say in the next verse that " I AM " would be his name forever and
    a memorial unto all generations. So let's put this together in the New Testament
    so Jesus can reveal what Moses was talking about. John 8: 57-58 says,

    57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old,
    and has thou seen Abraham?
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
    Abraham was, I AM.

    As you continue to read in the next chapters of John, Jesus begins to unvail the
    secret of the Great I AM. He says in the 9th chapter, I AM the light of the world.
    In the 10th chapter he says, I AM the door and I AM the good shepherd. Then
    he makes a bold statement saying, I and my Father are one. That got him in
    some trouble because the Jews picked up stones to stone him. He said for which
    works do you stone me and they said we don't stone you for any works, but
    because you being a man, you're making yourself God.

    Jesus continues in John revealing the Great I AM by saying, I AM the
    resurrection, I AM the true vine, and I AM the bread. In essence, Jesus is whatever
    you need him to be and whatever you believe him to be. If you don't believe he is
    God, well, you're missing a wonderful revelation that can help you now and in the
    future.

    Just to make sure you understand that Jesus is the GREAT I AM, let me give you
    some more scripture.

    I AM the bright and morning star.
    I AM the lion of the tribe of Judah.
    I AM the rose of sharon.
    I AM the alpha and omega.
    I AM root of Jesse.
    I AM the the lilly of the valley.
    I AM the rock.
    I AM the stone.
    I AM Emanuel.
    I AM the prince of peace.
    I AM wonderful.
    I AM counselor.
    I AM the mighty God.
    I AM the Everlasting Father.

    I think you get the point. Last but certainly not least,

    I AM the ALMIGHTY.



    Logabe
     
  13. Vashti

    Vashti New Member

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    J 12:39-41 esv "(39) Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, (40) "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them." (41) Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him."

    Jon says about Christ. And below what Isaiah saw:

    Isa 6:1-3 esv"(1) In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. (2) Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. (3) And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!""
     
  14. us2are1

    us2are1 Son Of Man

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    You said "Scripture" and then do not give the scripture.

    Where is all this in scripture?





    .
     
  15. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Can't give scriptures that say, "I am the almighty' verbatim, but there are definitely plenty to support his supreme deity.

    THE ALMIGHTY: Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    THE KING of KINGS: 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    THE LORD OF LORDS: 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    THE ONLY IMMORTAL: 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    WONDERFULL: Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    COUNSELLOR: Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    THE MIGHTY GOD: (notice the fact that this child was THE God): Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    THE EVERLASTING FATHER (also can be referred to as the FATHER OF ETERNITY): Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    THE WAY: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    THE TRUTH: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    THE LIFE: Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    THE ROCK: 1Co_10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    THE BEGINNING: Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    THE END: Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    OUR GOD (notice something very interesting in this verse: Jesus said that he would be the God of the one who overcame. He leaves no room for any other): Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    THE ANSWERER OF PRAYER: Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR: Rev_22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


    THE WORD (I love this verse. The statement that it makes is essentially this: In the beginning was the Word. The word was with God and the Word WAS GOD. ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY THE WORD, AND WITHOUT IT, NOTHING COULD BE MADE! I think that makes the WORD God because without it we wouldn't exist! And as we know, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Humanity and deity fused, not confused.): Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Amen
     
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  16. Phillip

    Phillip New Member

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    Yes, Jesus is my Lord God.
    Beside Him there is no other.

    Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord.
     
  17. HeRoseFromTheDead

    HeRoseFromTheDead Not So Advanced Member

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    And he is the visible form of the invisible God. Always has been, always will be.
     
  18. us2are1

    us2are1 Son Of Man

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    1 Timothy 3
    16 -------- God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by messengers, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
     
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  19. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    In addition to the fact that Jesus is God is also that He is our older brother....we will become like He is. It’s very important not to miss this truth.
     
  20. redsox141978

    redsox141978 New Member

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    This wouldnt even be a discussion, if 2 things were still prevalent.

    1) early paleo Hebrew
    2) Proper transliterated Name of Al'ohiym and Messiah were used.

    In the early Paleo, YHWH was written in a pictograph style. "Y" of yodh, is drawn as an outstretched HAND., "H" or hey< are upraised arms, meaning behold, or reveal, the "W" or waw, was a tent peg, or a nail, and "H".

    So, in YHWH we have " HAND BEHOLD/REVEALED NAIL BEHOLD/REVEALED.

    The Good News is declared in the very Name.

    YHWH, is a compound name that includes an action. What is the name of God/Al'ohoyim?

    its in your KJV, and better in the NKJV:

    Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

    NKJV Psa 68:4 Sing to God, sing praises to His name; Extol Him who rides on the clouds, [fn] By His name YAH, And rejoice before Him.

    This is where the universally spoken "HALLELU-YAH" comes from, it means "praise be to YAH".

    The Son, is the EXPRESSED image of Al'ohiym, The Father is Spriit, and no one has seen Him except the Son, who again, IS the expressed image

    of the triune Al'ohiym.

    Al'ohiym, is "God" translated, and its PLURAL. In Deut 6:4, known as the She'ma(hebrew word that means hear/understand/obey), which is first word of verse, of 3 verses, Al'ohiym is used:

    She'ma Y'israel YHWH Al'ohiym YHWH echad.

    The word "echad' is a MASCULINE word for ONE, and it also implies PLURALITY, for instance

    ONE CASE of oranges.......

    The name of Messiah, has the Name of Al'ohiym, YAH, within it, and it declares YAH our Salvation.

    That Name above ALL NAMES?

    Yahu'shua, Hebrew is a SPOKEN language, that means the spelling of a word or name is left up to the "guest host" language, in our case English,

    it can be spellled "yahooshooa", based on SOUND, or yahoshoa, etc.......

    Whats important, is the declaration of the Name within the Son..... I do things in My fathers name. Those who have seen me, have seen the Father.

    Al'ohiym, = Father -Son - Ruach HaKodesh, The Son being the EXPRESSED IMAGE of the tri-une Al'ohiym/God.

    Remeber Thomas in the upper room? What was it he NEEDED to SEE? Thomas was evidently FAMILIAR with the history of His mother tongue.

    [​IMG]Jhn 20:24 But T'oma, one of the twelve, called Didymus, wasn't with them when Yashua came. [​IMG]Jhn 20:25 The other talmidim therefore said to him, "We have seen YHWH!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." [​IMG]Jhn 20:26 After eight days again his talmidim were inside, and T'oma was with them. Yashua came, the doors being locked, and stood in the midst, and said, "Shalom be to you." [​IMG]Jhn 20:27 Then he said to T'oma, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believing. [​IMG]Jhn 20:28 T'oma answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

    My Adonai and my Al'ohiym.
     
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