James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[praise_yeshua]

You did not answer my question,
this time, in Peter's life and all Jews for this matter.
How many gentiles did God include into His chosen people?
I'm referring from the time of the first covenant with Abraham till Acts 10 as this time in history, with the Jews and gentiles.

Like a good silly dispensationalist, you believe Jews are superior Christians.

Rome was evangelized by Christians that were not from the Church at Jerusalem. The seed of Abraham is scattered throughout this world in those considered Gentiles. It has been since patriarch's began taking Gentiles as concubines. It really is ridiculous what you believe. I am heir with Abraham through Jesus Christ. The only promised seed

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You do know that James was referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide, right?

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

That is the faith James was referring to that requires works; as in leading by example; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James was rebuking the church for sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting their immediate needs of those poor that were about to perish from the element and starvation from the bounty collected at church service. It is the church's faith in God to provide being issued to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor, seeing the church's faith is dead without leading by example.

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the church nor man is not justified nor righteous when sharing faith in God to provide to the poor if the church nor that believer cares to lead by example to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor with what God had provided for them.

It is the church's faith in God to provide that is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide to the poor, will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements or starvation when the church does not care to lead by example.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if needing works, because James was rebuking the church for getting out of helping the poor by callously sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were perishing.

Paul testifies to faith in Jesus Christ in salvation which is without works for why believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the Good News for man.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Why did you skip verses 9- 12 ?

Genesis22:9- And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham BUILT an altar there,and he LAID THE WOOD IN ORDER, and BOUND ISSAC ,his son.,AND LAID HIM ON THE ALTAR UPON THE WOOD
And Abraham STRETCHED FORTH HIS HAND,and TOOK THE KNIFE TO SLAY HIS SON.
And the angel of the Lord called...................
......................for NOW I knowest that thou FEAREST God..............................


James is talking about lip service faith.
Abraham proved his faith was sure by proceeding preparation to give God his son.
Abraham believe God, to which he said many nations would come through his line with his wife Sarah.
Just as Rahab believed the messenger of Israel in that God was going to clear the land of its inhabitants for his chosen ppl. Therefore she exercised her faith and belief by helping them escape and lying to her own ppl.

Our faith must produce, if not it is dead. Not the fruit of the Spirit for those are his attributes projected through us,but the fruit of a believer is another believer.
Loving your neighbor and brother causes us to do good to others!

 

[Titus]

Like a good silly dispensationalist, you believe Jews are superior Christians.

Rome was evangelized by Christians that were not from the Church at Jerusalem. The seed of Abraham is scattered throughout this world in those considered Gentiles. It has been since patriarch's began taking Gentiles as concubines. It really is ridiculous what you believe. I am heir with Abraham through Jesus Christ. The only promised seed

I'm not asking how many gentiles in the old testament converted to Judaism.
I'm asking how many gentiles that were outside of the chosen people of God, were a part of Gods chosen people till the gentile Cornelius in Acts 10.

The obvious answer is none were chosen.
God made a covenant with Abraham.

Because of the history of the Jews being Gods chosen people.
You can see Peter did not understand what God had in mind with the gentile Cornelius.

Peter was not rebelling against God as you claim,
Acts 10:17
Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant....

Peter did not understand what was occurring.
Up until Acts 10 no gentiles were the chosen people of God.

It was only natural for Peter's unlimited understanding and history of being a jew, that he said to God,
Acts 10:14
But Peter said, Not so Lord, For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.

Now for a jew to go to a gentile, this was very strage thing for Peter.
This is why his response to God was that of uncertainty.
He simply did not fully understand what was taking place,
Acts 10:28
Then he said to them, You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation(gentiles). But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Your story of Peter rebelling against God in Acts 10 is not accurate with the context of this story.

You have failed to give evidence of your teaching that Peter was rebellious and had to be corrected to preach the gospel to all nations.
Do you not know this is the story of the FIRST gentile convert to Jesus Christ?
That is totally new territory for the Jews. This is why Peter acted the way he did.
It was not because he rebelled against Jesus' commission to preach the gospel to every nation.

I'm still waiting for you to give evidence for your doctrine?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm not asking how many gentiles in the old testament converted to Judaism.
I'm asking how many gentiles that were outside of the chosen people of God, were a part of Gods chosen people till the gentile Cornelius in Acts 10.

You're pontificating and I've already answered you.

1. There is no such thing as a true blood Jew. Their blood has mixed with all the Gentile nations of the world. That has been true since the children of Jacob disobeyed God and took themselves concubines and wives of Gentile nation.
2. There is only one promised SEED of Abraham. That is ONLY Jesus Christ. The heir of ALL Things.

The obvious answer is none were chosen.
God made a covenant with Abraham.

And from that covenant came the only Promised Seed with Eternal value. JESUS CHRIST. In HIM..... ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH are blessed.

Because of the history of the Jews being Gods chosen people.
You can see Peter did not understand what God had in mind with the gentile Cornelius.

Peter rejected what Jesus said.....

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which parallels Acts 10

Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Peter was not rebelling against God as you claim,
Acts 10:17
Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant....

Peter did not understand what was occurring.
Up until Acts 10 no gentiles were the chosen people of God.

That is a lie. The offering of Jesus Christ broke down the wall that stood between Jew and Gentile.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is amazing but predictable. You prefer to be lead by men like king jimmy/james.

Go ahead. Repeat yourself again.

 

[ChristisGod]

You're pontificating and I've already answered you.

1. There is no such thing as a true blood Jew. Their blood has mixed with all the Gentile nations of the world. That has been true since the children of Jacob disobeyed God and took themselves concubines and wives of Gentile nation.
2. There is only one promised SEED of Abraham. That is ONLY Jesus Christ. The heir of ALL Things.



And from that covenant came the only Promised Seed with Eternal value. JESUS CHRIST. In HIM..... ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH are blessed.



Peter rejected what Jesus said.....

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which parallels Acts 10

Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.



That is a lie. The offering of Jesus Christ broke down the wall that stood between Jew and Gentile.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is amazing but predictable. You prefer to be lead by men like king jimmy/james.

Go ahead. Repeat yourself again.

ditto

 

[theefaith]

1 Corinthians 13:2
King James Version

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[robert derrick]

God judges the heart and searches the heart

out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks

we read of also being justified by our words , by grace , by the blood of Christ by the Spirit, by the resurrection

we know that a man can give money to the poor and hate them in his heart

and when a person is save by the grace of God where Christ dwells in his heart many work will flow from that life but the wirk did not merit the initial salvation and the works are not ceremonial types and shadows to save them. No works saw them but His work on the cross and His working in them . The fruit from a tree comes from a formed tree.

we know that a man can give money to the poor and hate them in his heart

You are correct that works alone do not save.

and when a person is save by the grace of God where Christ dwells in his heart many work will flow from that life but the work did not merit the initial salvation

You are incorrect that faith alone justifies any man with God.

If the works don't 'flow' to justify a man, then the faith isn't there to save him.

'Initial' salvation is man's way of trying to be saved 'initially' by faith alone, in order to justify continuing in sins and trespasses, 'with faith'.

No works save them.

And no faith saves them without works:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Stop trying to talk spiritual, and simply acknowledge the truth of Scripture, that faith without works is dead, a d no man is justified by faith without works.

Many Christians idealize the notion of being 'initially' saved apart from obeying God, because they all to often find themselves disobeying God, and rather than simply acknowledging they lack faith to be saved and obey Him, they wish to be saved by their own idea of faith anyway,

 

[robert derrick]

Please know that I don't believe a faith will remain without works. Faith will quickly grow into having good works, putting away sin, keeping oneself unspotted from the world, and in living holy (by the inner working of God doing the good works through a believer). If there is no change in life and a believer is justifying sin and doing nothing for God, they are not saved.

The difference between us is that I recognize an earlier phase to salvation that is purely based upon God's grace without works (Which is what the apostle Paul clearly taught in Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6).

Proof?

Well, if you don't believe there is no earlier phase of salvation that is purely based upon God's grace without works by the Bible, then you have to say that all babies who die go to Hell because they don't have works. You would also have to say that no Christian should ever bother to preach to anyone about Jesus who is about to die on their hospital beds. Is this what you believe? For I have talked with a Christian in person that I worked with who believes that there is no point to preach to those who are about to die. This is a problem.

Why? Well, if this is the case, then the thief on the cross could not have been saved.

Please know that I don't believe a faith will remain without works. Faith will quickly grow into having good works, putting away sin, keeping oneself unspotted from the world, and in living holy (by the inner working of God doing the good works through a believer).

Amen.

Well, if you don't believe there is no earlier phase of salvation that is purely based upon God's grace without works by the Bible,

The main difference between us is how to teach doctrine of Christ: You use words and concepts that are not found in Scripture. I don't. I only use the plain words of Scripture to teach Scripture.

1. There is no such thing in Scripture as faith remaining, until works of faith are done. Scripture declares faith without works--at any time--is dead.

2. No 'earlier phase' of salvation is in Scripture at all, neither directly by words nor by Scriptural principle.

The reason you speak of a 'phased in' salvation, that does not exist in Scripture, is because you are overlooking the first works within the heart by faith that God sees, so that you only speak of works of the body that all men see.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Obedience to the faith begins within the heart, where there is no 'temporal' separation between 'phases' of salvation: Your 'phased in' theology is not Scripture, where we read nothing of being saved by 'phases' of faith, first alone without works followed by works.

Then you have to say that all babies who die go to Hell because they don't have works.

You are trying to confuse faith with works that save and justify a man, with being saved by works without faith.

Babies don't die and go to hell, because men are judged by their works, which babies do not have, nor do they have faith to believe anything, being babies.

Furthermore, dead babes die in purity of soul, because all souls are made by Jesus Christ alive by His light, not dead with sin.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

There is no such thing as a sin nature nor spirit, and no soul is created with one, neither is any mortal body born with it.

All bodies of dust and flesh were made mortal to return to the dust, while all souls are made living by Christ, but die by sinning, which babes cannot do:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

You would also have to say that no Christian should ever bother to preach to anyone about Jesus who is about to die on their hospital beds. Is this what you believe?

Once again, you overlook the works of faith within the heart, which begin immediately as in a moment and twinkling of the eye. Even as with the bodily resurrection, so with that of the soul, where the new creature lives with purity of heart at once, enduring to the end.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If any man will confess his sin from the heart, then Jesus is faithful to forgive the soul and cleanse from all sin and unrighteousness, and then that soul for however long must also fight the good fight of faith within the heart, to cast down every lie of the devil and to cast out every vain imaginative thought for sinning.

So the last shall be first, and the first last.

They that come to the fight late in the day will receive due reward with we who have endure the heat of the day.

For I have talked with a Christian in person that I worked with who believes that there is no point to preach to those who are about to die. This is a problem.

A problem of false teaching of men, and not of true doctrine of Christ according to the Scriptures, which I am showing you to be the case.

When we stop thinking our own way, and using our own words and concepts for dcotrine of Christ, but stick to what is written only, then all such things will be made clear, simple, and easy to understand.

Why? Well, if this is the case, then the thief on the cross could not have been saved.

Yes, he could have, and for whatever time left upon his cross, he would have behaved himself as such: like Jesus.

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.

Conclusion by Scripture:

Faith, at any time, without works is dead.

Works of faith, at all times, begins within the heart, where there is no temporal time difference between believing and obeying God.

 

[robert derrick]

Take for example the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. The way you speak it makes it sound like there is absolutely no grace whatsoever, and yet that is what we read about in Luke 18:9-14. For how do you explain this parable?

The sinner that confessed his sin from the heart was forgiven and justified of God, and went back to his home changed from within: he no longer entertained and worked for sin within his heart.

To go and sin no more is to go and entertain no more thought for sin and lust in the heart: obedience to the faith begins within the heart from the moment we confess and are forgiven and cleanse by God:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The work of grace is being given grace with power to help believe and obey God within the heart, that the outside can also be seen by men as righteous and holy to God.

The self-righteous hypocrite spoke of his own deeds without faith and purity of heart: his words showed he was all law on the outside, but no faith and love on the inside:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What the carnal mind only sees in the story is outward words and deeds, not the inward faith at work.

Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is vain, and both begin within the heart to be purified of the lust of the world, that the hands may be clean also:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

No man can work the works of God with his neighbor, before working the works of God in his own heart: we must obey the first great commandment, before we can ever hope to keep the second.

And both are by grace through faith that is not dead, being alone.

The only 'first step' to salvation in Scripture is the faithful work of purifying within the platter first, that the outside may also be clean in deed and in truth.

there is no first believe and then obey within the heart: we believe and obey at the same time working together to purify and keep the heart pure in sight of God, that the outside may be seen as such by man.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Works of the Holy Spirit through us is what he was talking about. As in the fruit of the Spirit. Show me your works. God gives us these works to cooperate with and as faith is a gift, so is everything else a gift. We demonstrate our love towards others and this is God's love comeing through us. That is what James was talking about, that people should see Christ in you. Love is demonstrated through works. Works do not achieve faith, works are the outpouring of faith.

 

[robert derrick]

There are many problematic issues with this senseless view.

Jesus very clear said that the soul is lost. It is more than just flesh being sinful.

Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I have children. I love them very deeply.

However, they have lied to me since they were born. Over and over again, they lie without being taught to lie. It comes natural to them.

There are many problematic issues with this senseless view.

With sinners yes. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist...

Jesus very clear said that the soul is lost.

Scripture is clear that the soul which sins dies. No soul is dead, except he sins.

It is more than just flesh being sinful.

It has nothing to do with flesh being sinful, because no flesh nor any natural thing on earth is unclean and sinful of itself.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

The flesh doesn't sin, nor have sin, because it is the soul that sins with the flesh by lust in the heart: the soul does all things with the body. The body does nothing of itself.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

The blood and bones of the body is not sinful, nor does it tempt any man to sin, because it is but flesh and blood, not spirit and life.

I have children. I love them very deeply. However, they have lied to me since they were born. Over and over again, they lie without being taught to lie. It comes natural to them.

We only lied, when we learned to lie, when we learned the truth from a lie. So it was with Adam and still is with all men.

All souls are created equally alive as Adam, but all souls also have sinned, except one, not because they were created with sin, but because they learned to sin when given the chance.

The answer for children that sin after the manner of men, is the same for men: Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

And like all men, they must receive Him for themselves to obey Him and sin nor more.

The natural man sins naturally by practice, not by birth. To do by nature is from doing, not from being born.

 

[robert derrick]

Hello,
Can I be saved if I never have any good works?
If I just believe in 1Corinthians 15:1-4?
Believe only but never have any works ever.
Can I be saved?

I.e. if we cannot be saved and justified by faith alone without works in future, then how can we saved and justified by faith without works now.

The problem is people will not think with logical severity of Scripture, because they like to think idealistically about being saved by their own faith alone.

Many Christians believe they are saved only because they want to believe it, despite the logical severity of their disobedient works of sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Works of the Holy Spirit through us is what he was talking about. As in the fruit of the Spirit. Show me your works. God gives us these works to cooperate with and as faith is a gift, so is everything else a gift. We demonstrate our love towards others and this is God's love comeing through us. That is what James was talking about, that people should see Christ in you. Love is demonstrated through works. Works do not achieve faith, works are the outpouring of faith.

True. the faith of Jesus is the gift that saves to do His will.

Salvation is not the gift, nor is 'gifted'. Salvation is obtained by obeying Him according to His faith.

 

[Titus]

You're pontificating and I've already answered you.

1. There is no such thing as a true blood Jew. Their blood has mixed with all the Gentile nations of the world. That has been true since the children of Jacob disobeyed God and took themselves concubines and wives of Gentile nation.
2. There is only one promised SEED of Abraham. That is ONLY Jesus Christ. The heir of ALL Things.



And from that covenant came the only Promised Seed with Eternal value. JESUS CHRIST. In HIM..... ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH are blessed.



Peter rejected what Jesus said.....

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which parallels Acts 10

Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.



That is a lie. The offering of Jesus Christ broke down the wall that stood between Jew and Gentile.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is amazing but predictable. You prefer to be lead by men like king jimmy/james.

Go ahead. Repeat yourself again.

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which parallels Acts 10

Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Nowhere in John 21 did Peter rebel against Jesus.
Nowhere in Acts 10 did Peter not obey the commandment to preach to the first gentile convert, Cornelius.
Peter was confused by the vision, that is all.
You do not know the laws the Jews had to follow with non-jews.
No jew until Cornelius went to preach Jesus to a gentile.
You do not understand the huge change that was taking place in Acts 10.

Give an answer.
How do we know what is truth ?According to you the Bible cannot be trusted as the book of James is not Inspired.
Why should anyone listen to you. How do I know you know what is truth?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

True. the faith of Jesus is the gift that saves to do His will.

Salvation is not the gift, nor is 'gifted'. Salvation is obtained by obeying Him according to His faith.

Then I guess you really don't grasp the meaning of the Christian's fundamental and doctrinal pillar of our salvation that is simply stated in this verse:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Eph. 2:8-9

 

[Titus]

Then I guess you really don't grasp the meaning of the Christian's fundamental and doctrinal pillar of our salvation that is simply stated in this verse:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Eph. 2:8-9

Go read where the Ephesians obeyed the gospel in Acts 19:1-7.
You will learn the Ephesians did not get saved by faith only.
In fact they did not receive the Holy Spirit until after they were baptized!

Ephesians 2:8-9 is teaching no works of merit save man.
Not that no works of any kind play a part in salvation.
Gods works save us. Therefore we are saved by works.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before hand that we should walk in them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A meaningful relationship with Jesus Christ wherein a "believer" abandons themselves to serve Jesus Christ... "Speaks for itself"....

However, this is very very rare. Paul said very clearly that when he went to send "someone" to help those at Philippi.

Php 2:20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

There was no one but Timothy that would really care for them. "Naturally" care for them.

The reason given, "all seek there own".......Which is still true and WORSE today.

If such a devotion equal to the life of Timothy and Paul is required for redemption, then all are most assuredly lost.

You need to read things in context, friend.

Philippians 1:1-5 says:
“Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;”

Notice that Paul and Timotheus say to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi and Paul says he thanks God for their fellowship in the gospel. So they obviously were doing something for the Lord and not seeking only their own thing. It’s just that they (the Philippians) needed outside help.

Paul would not say his not finding anyone besides Timothy to care for the spiritual state of the believers at Philippi cannot mean every single believer during that time period. There was no internet back then or phone communications. There was no organized mail system like here in the United States and or other countries. In Paul’s immediate vicinity and reach there was no man that was able to care for the spiritual state of the Philippians (so that they can grow in their Sanctification). This has to be the interpretive view because Paul says to the Philippians to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). These are believers already. They don’t need to first be saved by God’s grace. What they need is one to train them up to run the race and to follow the narrow path or way. For narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). We must strive to enter the straight gate (Which you obviously ignore), my friend (Luke 13:24). As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man (Luke 17:26). When Noah entered the Ark, there were only 8. Granted, I am not saying it will be 8 people who will be saved when the Son of Man returns, but the point here is that things are lot more narrow than many Christians like to think. Many Christians justify the idea today that they can sin and still be saved (Which is insane). God is good, and obviously He is not going to agree with a person who justifies the idea that they can turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Take for example in Matthew 7:22-23 tells certain believers who did works in His name to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. This iniquity is not doing what Jesus says because in Matthew 7:26-27 we learn that those who hears the sayings of Jesus and does them not is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Meaning, we need to do what Jesus says or we are not going to make it into God’s Kingdom.

 

[Titus]

That is a lie. The offering of Jesus Christ broke down the wall that stood between Jew and Gentile.

You need to learn the order in which things occurred in the history of the Bible.

The gentiles were not saved by Jesus' gospel until Acts 10.

Show me one gentile Christian before Acts 10?

The gentiles could convert to Judaism in the old testament.
Then they became part of Gods people.
You will not find any saved born again gentile until Acts 10.

Yes, Jesus ended the chosen people only being Jews on His cross. Both jew and gentile were now chosen equally. But it was not until Acts 10 that gentiles began being saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The sinner that confessed his sin from the heart was forgiven and justified of God, and went back to his home changed from within: he no longer entertained and worked for sin within his heart.

To go and sin no more is to go and entertain no more thought for sin and lust in the heart: obedience to the faith begins within the heart from the moment we confess and are forgiven and cleanse by God:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The work of grace is being given grace with power to help believe and obey God within the heart, that the outside can also be seen by men as righteous and holy to God.

The self-righteous hypocrite spoke of his own deeds without faith and purity of heart: his words showed he was all law on the outside, but no faith and love on the inside:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

What the carnal mind only sees in the story is outward words and deeds, not the inward faith at work.

Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is vain, and both begin within the heart to be purified of the lust of the world, that the hands may be clean also:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

No man can work the works of God with his neighbor, before working the works of God in his own heart: we must obey the first great commandment, before we can ever hope to keep the second.

And both are by grace through faith that is not dead, being alone.

The only 'first step' to salvation in Scripture is the faithful work of purifying within the platter first, that the outside may also be clean in deed and in truth.

there is no first believe and then obey within the heart: we believe and obey at the same time working together to purify and keep the heart pure in sight of God, that the outside may be seen as such by man.

Again, James is not talking about Initial Salvation and so to assume that his statement that says faith without works is dead (James 2:17) applies in our Initial Salvation is incorrect. James is talking to those who are believers already in James chapter 2. James therefore must be referring to what happens to a believer AFTER they are saved by God’s grace. Sanctification is what follows after a believer is saved by God’s grace. Paul on the other hand says to the Ephesian believers that they are saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive). This is a one time event when you first accept Christ. So Paul is talking about Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation and Paul is not referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that says that God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit (Which is a call of the gospel - 2 Thessalonians 2:14).

 

[Titus]

Again, James is not talking about Initial Salvation and so to assume that his statement that says faith without works is dead (James 2:17) applies in our Initial Salvation is incorrect. James is talking to those who are believers already in James chapter 2. James therefore must be referring to what happens to a believer AFTER they are saved by God’s grace.

You are incorrect about initial salvation.
No one was saved by belief without obedience. Not one example in all the bible teaches this.

You are incorrect about James' teachijg.
James taught salvation comes only by an obedient faith, James 2:14 ; 2:24-26.

James gives us the example of Abraham being saved by faith and obedience to Gods commandments.

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
-23
And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.

James is quoting Genesis 15:6,
And he believed in the Lord and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Did Abraham become righteous in the eyes of God by doing nothing? Just belief?
No, His faith was justified made perfect because he believed then obeyed God!

Genesis 22:12,
And God said, Do not lay your hand on the Lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God since you have not withheld your son, your only son from Me.

Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness because it had obedient works!

Genesis 26:5,
Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

It was an obedient faith that saved Abraham.
If Abraham only believed God but never obeyed Gods commands to leave his homeland.
God would have never said in Genesis 15:6 that Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness.

Did Abraham do nothing before Genesis 15:6? Just believe?
No, With his faith he obeyed God.

Genesis 12:1-20 obedience not faith only
Genesis 13:1-18 obedience not faith only
Genesis 14:1-24 obedience not faith only

Genesis 15:6 God tells Abraham because of his faith with works of obedience, God accounts his faith as righteousness.

No one is justified or made righteous by God with belief and no obedience ie faith alone.

James 2:19,
You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe (alone) and tremble.