Divinity Verses Deity of Jesus Christ.

[Wrangler]

You are twisting and perverting the scriptures man!

No. I am untwisting the trinitarian twist on unitarian text. The trinity is not in the Bible - not the word, not the concept.

 

[Johann]

Dishonest..... Lets see.... You are LYING. Do you teaching yourself?

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

There is no judgement without the Son. You are a liar just like your father Satan.

YOU WILL FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.... Jesus Christ.

You should be afraid. VERY afraid.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

@praise-yeshua...leave your opponent, I am not at all offended in what he is saying

Rom_16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

..while you and I ... press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Php_3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

 

[APAK]

Dishonest..... Lets see.... You are LYING. Do you teaching yourself?

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

There is no judgement without the Son. You are a liar just like your father Satan.

YOU WILL FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.... Jesus Christ.

You should be afraid. VERY afraid.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Chill a bit...Calm down so you can begin to think more clearly and lower the emotional and physical stress you are placing on your heart and brain. I do not know who you are as of yet, besides one who is long on short words like saying liar and 'be afraid very afraid' and short on longer explanations that makes sense and communicate and exchange actual meaningful ideas.

Tell me about yourself if you do not mind and I will do the same in turn...thanks

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Oh..I see
Guess Thomas was "off color" upon his confession and we can "cut out" John 1:1..
J.

Jesus isn't lying when he says he has a Father and God at John 20:17 That person who is Jesus Father and God is his apostles and disciples Father and God, including Thomas. So what Thomas said can't contradict what Jesus said.

 

[praise_yeshua]

@praise-yeshua...leave your opponent, I am not at all offended in what he is saying

Rom_16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

..while you and I ... press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Php_3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

No. The Scriptures should cause mockers to fear. They have plenty to fear. They are mocking the rightful position of Messiah.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Johann]

No. The Scriptures should cause mockers to fear. They have plenty to fear. They are mocking the rightful position of Messiah.

The Lord has shown you and I mercy and grace and we should love, even our enemies, enemies of the cross...surely you can show mercy since we are all broken pots?
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Lord has shown you and I mercy and grace and we should love, even our enemies, enemies of the cross...surely you can show mercy since we are all broken pots?
J.

I once was in place of fear myself. I had to face what I was and my condition.

Jesus Christ has shown Grace and Mercy to this entire world. Grace and Mercy are limited. Vengeance will be "poured" out upon those who mock Jesus Christ. They have nothing to look forward to. The wrath of God already abides on them.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

They've made a choice to not believe.

 

[praise_yeshua]

LOL Sons are their father now? Wow, you got it bad - and can only offer slander.

Truth is an absolute defense to your false charges of slander.

Anyone can see what you've done. You're ignoring the fact the Father has demanded that you honor Jesus Christ just exactly as you honor Him.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him

THe position of Jesus Christ is that of Lord and God.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You will be judged by Jesus Christ. The Son that you dishonor and mock.

You don't care a single thing about the Scriptures. If you did, you would HONOR the Son.

 

[APAK]

You are twisting and perverting the scriptures man!
Who is the Memra?
Who exactly is GOD AND/KAI..HIS WORD! and don't forget the PROS..

I see you have some questions so I collected some thoughts for them.

Who is the Memra? It is not a who it is a what. And this what is the Aramaic word, (derived from the Hebrew root word 'mr' - 'to say') for the only divine power into this world of YHWH's creative expression, spoken voice and purpose, similar to the English symbol called 'Word' as used in John 1:1. Memra, like logos in a Greek transliteration is never a who or a person. One can call it an attribute that is intrinsically part of God, YHWH. It cannot be transferred or removed from YHWH to another creature or entity as it in Greek, PROS - was always from/towards/part of his divine power and the only source that is pure and original. And this Memra or logos lies with himself, within his Holy Spirit, from which all spirits in existence are derived.

Now this Memra/logos/word is YHWH's face and presence to his creation, at least in this world. It is the power of YHWH in the form of his personal expression that can be shared and used by others, as proxies for God's message and purpose via the angels, prophets who possessed/possess a transitionary short-term as-needed form. And with Christ, he possessed it for his earthly life and today in the realm of heaven. That is why Yahshua is a very special human being of both chosen human descent and of the divine intervention of God his Father through his Holy Spirit, directly. Christ, once just the human man was then possessed by the spirit and word of his Father, with his same power, purpose and expression of his Father today.

It is also suggested in scripture that Memra OT, logos/word NT is derived and driven from the divine wisdom/thought plan of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Truth is an absolute defense to your false charges of slander.

Anyone can see what you've done. You're ignoring the fact the Father has demanded that you honor Jesus Christ just exactly as you honor Him.

Don't you grasp language usage? Honoring Being B the same as Being A is honored does not mean Being A and Being B are the same being. Your claim is NOT the same as the Father demanding we give His glory to his Son. What did Jesus say when asked about paying taxes? He did NOT say render unto the Son what you render onto the Father.

He said render onto God what is God's. This God, he told us how to pray to; he is our Father, who is in heaven. Jesus was neither, in heaven nor the Father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Don't you grasp language usage? Honoring Being B the same as Being A is honored does not mean Being A and Being B are the same being. Your claim is NOT the same as the Father demanding we give His glory to his Son. What did Jesus say when asked about paying taxes? He did NOT say render unto the Son what you render onto the Father.

He said render onto God what is God's. This God, he told us how to pray to; he is our Father, who is in heaven. Jesus was neither, in heaven nor the Father.

You're the one with the problem understanding clear speech. You dishonor Jesus Christ. You will answer to Jesus Christ for your stupid remarks.

You're not dealing with the Scriptures I referenced. You're deflecting. Just like your father. Satan. You dishonor Jesus Christ.

Are you going to be judged by Jesus Christ or not?

 

[praise_yeshua]

There are several reasons not to believe the nonsense you read in this thread from those dishonoring Jesus Christ.

1. God does not share His Glory from anyone/anything less than Him. Jesus Christ is to be GLORIFIED!

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him

Equal Glory due Jesus Christ the Son with God the Father.

2. God does not allow anyone, less than Himself. to JUDGE those whom are His alone.

Psa 24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

The judge of all men is GOD alone. Jesus Christ the judge of ALL...

Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

3. God exalts HIMSELF and demands ALL BOW TO HIM.....

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Things in the earth. Things in heaven. ALL THINGS BOW... to the Son. Jesus Christ.

Yet you have these very silly people trying to seperate the Father and the Son. There is no separation. They Glorify ONE ANOTHER....

Those who oppose this relationship are just like their father. Satan. Like their father, they are lies. Satan is the father of lies. Just as they are equal with Satan.

God the Father and Jesus Christ are EQUAL to one another.

Therein you have the rightful Glorification of Jesus Christ with the Father and the damnation of all those who oppose THEM.... Just like Satan is damned.

 

[Wrangler]

You dishonor Jesus Christ.

Honoring God is not dishonoring his son.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Praise_Yeshua said
You are just like your father. Satan. You face the judgement of the LIVING GOD..... Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE\]
Isn't this saying that the Apostle Peter was lying when he said to Jesus that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God? Peter wasn't claiming that Jesus was, the living God, but that he was the Son of the living God. So I believe what Peter confessed that Jesus is the Son of the living God not that Jesus is the living God.

Praise_Yeshua quoted:
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The scriptures are very clear that the True God YHWH who is the Father and God of Jesus Christ has subjected everything and everyone to his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. So yes, as John 5:22,23 say the true God YHWH has subjected all authority to his Only Begotten Son Jesus, including judging, but we also understand that when the True God YHWH subjected everyone and everything to his Only Begotten Son the Father and God of Jesus who is YHWH God isn't subject to Jesus but Jesus is subject to his Father and God who is YHWH God. 1Corinthians 15:22-28. Did you notice in John 5:23 that this arrangement that the Father and God has set up, that if you exercise faith in this arrangement that YHWH God has set up making everything and everyone subject to his Son and that if you don't exercise faith that the True God YHWH has subjected all authority to his Only Begotten Son then you're not exercising faith in the one who sent his Son to mankind. The True God YHWH is the person who sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind. So here in these scriptures they show that YHWH God and his Only Begotten Son are not the same person.

In the scriptures in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 30 the phrase, "the Lord" in that scripture is speaking about YHWH God not Jesus Christ. We can understand this because Jesus isn't the living God. He's the Son of the living God as the apostle Peter testified at Matthew 16:15,16.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Honoring God is not dishonoring his son.

Dishonoring The Son is dishonoring The Father. Again. Like your father Satan, you hate the Scriptures.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

You refuse to equally honor the Father and Son as demanded by the Scriptures. There is no separation between the Father and the Son. Satan tried to the do the same thing. He failed. You fail.

You will answer to the Son of God soon.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Isn't this saying that the Apostle Peter was lying when he said to Jesus that Jesus was the Christ the Son of the living God? Peter wasn't claiming that Jesus was, the living God, but that he was the Son of the living God. So I believe what Peter confessed that Jesus is the Son of the living God not that Jesus is the living God.

You are like your father Satan. When you lie, you are just like your father Satan. You lie about The Son of God. There is NO separation between the Father and the Son.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The scriptures are very clear that the True God YHWH who is the Father and God of Jesus Christ has subjected everything and everyone to his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ. So yes, as John 5:22,23 say the true God YHWH has subjected all authority to his Only Begotten Son Jesus, including judging, but we also understand that when the True God YHWH subjected everyone and everything to his Only Begotten Son the Father and God of Jesus who is YHWH God isn't subject to Jesus but Jesus is subject to his Father and God who is YHWH God.

THEY are subject to ONE ANOTHER. That is the Unity they share. You are trying to seperate them just like your father Satan. You are foolish man that doesn't understand the Unity the Father and Son share. When you've seen the Father, you've seen The Son. When you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father.

The only people that try to deny this fact are those of Satan. You TRY to belittle the exalted position of The Son because of your EVIL heart. YOUR EVIL heart just like your father, Satan.

1Corinthians 15:22-28. Did you notice in John 5:23 that this arrangement that the Father and God has set up, that if you exercise faith in this arrangement that YHWH God has set up making everything and everyone subject to his Son and that if you don't exercise faith that the True God YHWH has subjected all authority to his Only Begotten Son then you're not exercising faith in the one who sent his Son to mankind. The True God YHWH is the person who sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind. So here in these scriptures they show that YHWH God and his Only Begotten Son are not the same person.

Pontificating nonsense. You do not treat the Father and Son as equals. Satan did the same thing. You will face the judgement of Jesus Christ and the just damnation that your father Satan will receive will be YOUR damnation. Like father. Like you, Satan's son. You are both equal in judgement.

In the scriptures in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 30 the phrase, "the Lord" in that scripture is speaking about YHWH God not Jesus Christ. We can understand this because Jesus isn't the living God. He's the Son of the living God as the apostle Peter testified at Matthew 16:15,16.

Liar. I believe the Scriptures.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Like your father, Satan, you're full of nonsense and sin. Receive the judgement of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Dishonoring The Son is dishonoring The Father.

All you do is repeated your limited vocabulary. Again, honoring God, keeping the 1C, is not dishonoring anyone, including Jesus.

Please refer to the verse in Scripture that says if you do not call Jesus God incarnate, it is dishonoring Christ?

 

[APAK]

Dishonoring The Son is dishonoring The Father. Again. Like your father Satan, you hate the Scriptures.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

You refuse to equally honor the Father and Son as demanded by the Scriptures. There is no separation between the Father and the Son. Satan tried to the do the same thing. He failed. You fail.

You will answer to the Son of God soon.

I have not read one post yet that says someone does not honor the Son of God, of our Father. Why do you keep writing that some one does not honor the Son? Is it because they do not specially write the words you want to hear? Ask then specifically next time and you will not have to assume it anymore.

John 5 :18-23 specifically speaks to our Father giving his Son authority over many things and thus the Pharisees condemned him for 'making' himself equal (in authority) to his Father, and not that he was saying he was God, his Father himself. And yes, he did claim to have been given authority from his Father, as the Son of God.

And therefore we must not only honor this authority give by his Father to his Son, we also honor the Son because this authority was given to him by his Father. This scripture incidentally does not focused on the concept of worship, as that is for another topic. So the Son is worthy of equal honor as the Father in this context, and only in this context thus far.

An analogy would be that a King, the Father, has given his Son, the Prince, all the powers and authority as himself in his stead as his proxy and ambassador when he cannot be present. Therefore the Prince is honored as not only the King's representative, also as if he was the King himself, in person. This also suggests that the King can never be the Prince and vice a versa. This is only a human to human analogy and is not really an ideal example.

Yahshua is careful in his words NOT to speak of being exactly the SAME as his Father, in all ways, as he can never be equal of the same essence of his the Father, the only true God. He is only equal in authority in this scripture. There is clearly separation and difference on the very primal level of essence between the Father and Son.

We cannot assume just anything in scripture that even sounds logical as it exaggerates and adds in claims that is not presence. It is called adding to/into scripture more that what the scriptural context suggests or allows.

If we truly love scripture, the word of God, of the Father, then we also know that scripture originated with the Father, and never from the Son. As all authority originates and lies with the Father and he alone chooses to share his authority with others as he did with the angels. Abraham, Moses, and others, the prophets and of course his Son is a more permanent way as spoken of in this particular scripture under study.

Here's the scripture that also suggest the local context:
(NIV)
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

And again, Yahshua, the Son was equal with his Father regarding the authority he was given to him....

Now do you demand more of others, or does scripture demand more than it actually says?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Praise_Yeshua said:

THEY are subject to ONE ANOTHER. That is the Unity they share. You are trying to seperate them just like your father Satan. You are foolish man that doesn't understand the Unity the Father and Son share. When you've seen the Father, you've seen The Son. When you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father.[/QOUTE\]

There's no scripture that the True God YHWH has inspired men to write down that says that the Father and God of Jesus is subject to Jesus. The True God YHWH did inspire men to write down that Jesus is subject to his Father and God at 1Corinthians 15:27.The scripture at 1Corinthians 11:3 is very clear that the True God YHWH is the head of Jesus but you will find nowhere in the scriptures that Jesus is the head of YHWH God. The scriptures have always put the Father and God of Jesus as being his superior. Jesus is never said to be superior to his Father and God. So since Jesus Father and God is always superior to him Jesus isn't in any way equal to the True God YHWH, so Jesus is subject to his Father and God but Jesus Father and God isn't subject to Jesus.
The scriptures that say, when you've seen the son you've seen the Father doesn't in any way mean that the Father is subject to his Only Begotten Son. What this means is that by Jesus Christ explaining his Father and God when he was on this earth and by example being the kind of person his Father and God is like, you have seen the kind of person Jesus Father and God is like. The Father and God of Jesus taught Jesus, so the Father and God of Jesus would only teach his Only Begotten Son to be the way he himself is. John 8:28

Praise_Yeshua said:
Pontificating nonsense. You do not treat the Father and Son as equals. Satan did the same thing. You will face the judgement of Jesus Christ and the just damnation that your father Satan will receive will be YOUR damnation. Like father. Like you, Satan's son. You are both equal in judgement.[/Quote\]

I haven't treated the person who is the Father and God of Jesus and his Son Jesus as equals, I have consistently said as the scriptures say, that the True God YHWH who is the father and God of Jesus is superior to Jesus and that the Father and God of Jesus has subjected all auhority, including the authority to judge to his Only Begotten Son Jesus and that the only person not subject to Jesus is the person who made everything subject to him which is Jesus Father and God YHWH. So as I said Jesus is subject to his Father and God YHWH but YHWH God isn't subject to Jesus. We all have to exercise faith in this arrangement that the Father and God of Jesus who is YHWH God has given all authority to his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ and that YHWH God is the only person not subject to his Only Begotten Son.

Praise_Yeshua quoted:
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.[/Quote\]

Before what you quoted in Matthew 22:44-46 above let me say this, Here just before Jesus said what he said at Matthew 22:44-46 he asked the Pharisees at Matthew 22:42 , what do you think about the Christ? Who's son is he? They said to him: David's. Then Jesus asked them at Matthew 22:43 How is it, then, that David in the spirit calls him lord. Then we go to what you quoted at Matthew 22:44-46. Now we have to understand that The phrase, "The LORD" at the beginning of Matthew 22:44 are words that replaced what was originally there, "YHWH," So Matthew 22:44-46 should be translated as, Matthew 22:44-"YHWH said to my Lord: " Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet. Matthew22"45- If, then, David calls him Lord, how is he his son? Matthew 22:46-And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, and from that day on, no one dared to question him further."

At Matthew 22:44 Jesus was quoting Palms 110:1 in which the four Hebrew consonants YHWH which represents the personal name of God and was originally in this scripture but replaced with the words, The LORD.
So at Matthew 22:44 Jesus said to the Pharisees that David said when in the spirit that YHWH(Jehovah; Yehwah) said unto my Lord. So since YHWH is the True God and the Father and God of Jesus the one who David is saying is his Lord(my Lord) is the Only Begotten Son of YHWH God. So Psalms 110:1 is showing us that YHWH God has made his Only Begotten Son our Lord. This again shows in the scriptures that Jesus and his Father and God are not the same person and the Father and God of Jesus has made all government, authorities, and power and lordship and every name subject to his Only Begotten Son. Ephesians 1:21. The only person and power and authority and name that isn't subject to Jesus is the person who made everything and everyone subject to Jesus which is his Father and God YHWH.1 Corinthians 15:27,28