Divinity Verses Deity of Jesus Christ.

[Wrangler]

Your comments are the highest ignorance.

Insults. Proof text that you have lost the argument.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Insults. Proof text that you have lost the argument.

Proof? I tell you the truth and you see it as proof that you won the argument.

 

[Wrangler]

The flesh of Jesus Christ died. That is all.

Dead is dead. He died fully, completely and totally as all of flesh do. Scripture informs us that God raised Jesus from the dead. This is how we know:
1. Jesus is not God.
2. Jesus died.

Jesus would not have to be raised by another being, God, if he were not dead.

 

[Wrangler]

You're the one that claimed that a son can't be like His father.

Strawman. I did not say like but is. No one is their parent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Dead is dead. He died fully, completely and totally as all of flesh do. Scripture informs us that God raised Jesus from the dead. This is how we know:
1. Jesus is not God.
2. Jesus died.

Jesus would not have to be raised by another being, God, if he were not dead.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Strawman. I did not say like but is. No one is their parent.

Read your comments again. You're trying to establish a distinction without a difference. You're acting like a child by "oversimplifying" the circumstances.

 

[Wrangler]

Read your comments again. You're trying to establish a distinction without a difference

Sons are not their Fathers. There is God and his son. Two Beings. One can die. One cannot. One created us. The other saved us via substitutionary punishment by his death. This is a distinction with a difference.

Scripture says all glory to God. It does not say to split the glory among even his Servants, explicitly stated to include Jesus @ Acts 3:13.

Hope this helps.

 

[APAK]

Brother, I know in Whom I have entrusted myself and have studied this extensively.
I'm not going to getting into an argument with you.
I am amazed this forum is not properly supervised.
After all, this is a Christian forum.
Make a study on echad in the Shema.
Stydy echad and achiyd and do read ancient rabbinical writings as I have done.


But the point
here is that humankind in Gn
1:27 is “HaAdam” in Hebrew,
and that verse shows Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation. When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAVRESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two." Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAVLAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESHYUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad. G-d is
echad,one, but a complex one,

One, but with Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold holiness, Isa 6:3).
Read the OJB
Then study.
If Jeshua was just a Man, then we don't have a Savior.
j.

Something to ponder on Johann.

If Elohim or echad refer to more than one of anything, or a plurality of anything, then they MUST be referring to more than one GOD/LORD, which would make Trinitarians Polytheists, or even Tri-Theists. God as unity is one thing and understandable, although forcing the definition of unity to now mean and incorporate Christ, the Father and his Spirit is really going out-of-bounds into fantasy land.

Elohim, if indicated true plurality, would also have to indicate a plurality of gods; not one true God in 3 persons - three gods!

If scripture spoke of 'one gods,' Trinitarians may have a legitimate argument, but that very statement would be contradictory in itself. It would have to declare “ONE Trinity.” See the flaw your entire argument? It is nonsense. You are building and attempting to show that the invented Trinity model is scriptural. It will never happen.

I believe you as others frequently attempt to force a trinity triune god system into any word, verse or passage of scripture especially ones that seemingly are vaguely written and suggest double meanings. You have an urgent need to Trinitize (made up the verb for my purpose here) all scripture in the name of your 3 gods.

The trinity is just an invention of the human mind, nothing more nothing less. And yet many Trinitarians believe it to be so central to their Christian walk that it must be a prerequisite for salvation. I believe the opposite. It will damn a person as an adulterer and violator of the 1C.

Salvation is not administered through 3 gods, only one GOD. NO Triune invented '3 gods' gave me salvation. Elohim (of plurality of Majesty) of YHW(sounded out as 'Vah') H chose me for salvation because I genuinely believed with the gift of faith in the Father's Son and his works as I repented with a contrite hear for all heaven to see and sense. I was brought to nothing in that moment of need and healing, Amen. Soon afterwards, I experienced the Spirit of his Son, of the Father inside me. It was my confirmation I was chosen by my one true God, the Father of all spirits.

And his (the one true YHWH -singular) instrument and sacrifice for my salvation was his Son, the man and servant of God, who is now my Lord and Savior, the basis of the gospel, born for and of the Father for this and his purpose.

As for your last remark at the end of your post, I would suggest you study that if Christ was not born a man as others on the 'outside' at least, we are still dead in our sins.

You do really know the significance of why Christ is called the 2nd and last Adam, right? There was no god masquerading and impersonating Christ as he walks the earth as there was no god impersonating the 1st Adam in the Garden. They were both human beings born sinless of the Father. One fell to sin with the divine word and Spirit of the Father dwelling on the outside of him, and the other, Yahshua, sinless possessing the divine word and Spirit of the Father on the inside. The Fathers' voice and expression and purpose and plan now lived in this 2nd Adam at the start of his mission to the Cross. The word became flesh indeed!

You should be able to fill in the rest of the story without being forced to yet again introduced the '3 gods' = one big triune god... concept.

 

[Johann]

You should be able to fill in the rest of the story without being forced to yet again introduced the '3 gods' = one big triune god... concept.

..and here we go, the great divide, after all this is a forum with different viewpoints we even have ..never mind.
Well, I believe in the Triune Godhead, you don't, but we entrusted ourselves in/reposing in Christ as our Savior..which begs the question
Is Christ God?
J.

 

[APAK]

..and here we go, the great divide, after all this is a forum with different viewpoints we even have ..never mind.
Well, I believe in the Triune Godhead, you don't, but we entrusted ourselves in/reposing in Christ as our Savior..which begs the question
Is Christ God?
J.

Really, after you supposedly read my post.

Look Johann either you are being completely dishonest with me or are ignorant and even ignored what I just wrote to you entirely as my last post.

Of course Christ is NOT YHWH. There is no theme, no plan, no plot, no logical argument, no pattern or narrative in scripture that comes close to suggesting such a thing.

Please tell Paul if you see him in the future that the person standing next to him is God Almighty - one of the gods/persons of the same essence of the big triune god! If there is nut ward in the New City of out future, you might find yourself there or chucked out as one that should have been left in the darkness as a heretic.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Do you believe that Christ Jesus is God?

No, I believe what the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. (Matthew 16:16) At Luke 1:30-32 the angel announced that Jesus would be great and will be called Son of the Most High. I notice there in Luke chapter 1:30-32 that the angel didn't say Jesus was God, but Son of the Most High. At John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary Magdalene after he's resurrected, to go to his Apostles and disciples and tell them he's ascending to his Father and their Father and his God and their God. At Matthew 3: 17 God says Jesus is his Son whom he has approved and at John 1:34 John the Baptist testifies that Jesus is the Son of God. Martha confessed at John 11:27 that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God. At Acts 9:20 it is said that the apostle Paul began preaching this one(Jesus) is the Son of God. The apostles Peter, Paul, John nor any other of Jesus followers preached that Jesus was God. Everyone of them taught that Jesus is the Son of God. The True God YHWH doesn't have a Father and God. Jesus however does have a Father God so Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of the only True God YHWH.

 

[Johann]

No, I believe what the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. (Matthew 16:16) At Luke 1:30-32 the angel announced that Jesus would be great and will be called Son of the Most High. I notice there in Luke chapter 1:30-32 that the angel didn't say Jesus was God, but Son of the Most High. At John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary Magdalene after he's resurrected, to go to his Apostles and disciples and tell them he's ascending to his Father and their Father and his God and their God. At Matthew 3: 17 God says Jesus is his Son whom he has approved and at John 1:34 John the Baptist testifies that Jesus is the Son of God. Martha confessed at John 11:27 that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God. At Acts 9:20 it is said that the apostle Paul began preaching this one(Jesus) is the Son of God. The apostles Peter, Paul, John nor any other of Jesus followers preached that Jesus was God. Everyone of them taught that Jesus is the Son of God. The True God YHWH doesn't have a Father and God. Jesus however does have a Father God so Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of the only True God YHWH.

Oh..I see
Guess Thomas was "off color" upon his confession and we can "cut out" John 1:1..
J.

 

[Wrangler]

Something to ponder on Johann.

If Elohim or echad refer to more than one of anything, or a plurality of anything, then they MUST be referring to more than one GOD/LORD, which would make Trinitarians Polytheists, or even Tri-Theists. God as unity is one thing and understandable, although forcing the definition of unity to now mean and incorporate Christ, the Father and his Spirit is really going out-of-bounds into fantasy land.

Elohim, if indicated true plurality, would also have to indicate a plurality of gods; not one true God in 3 persons - three gods!

If scripture spoke of 'one gods,' Trinitarians may have a legitimate argument, but that very statement would be contradictory in itself. It would have to declare “ONE Trinity.” See the flaw your entire argument? It is nonsense.

Brilliant!

I look forward to his thoughtful reply.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh..I see
Guess Thomas was "off color" upon his confession and we can "cut out" John 1:1..
J.

Thomas made an exclamation. When I drop my toast butter side down, I am not actually stating it is feces.

John 1:1 refers to God and his word, not Jesus who is not even mentioned.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sons are not their Fathers. .

Liar. Jesus said that people like yourself are just LIKE YOUR FATHER.....

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You are lying. You are just like your LYING father. Satan.

There is God and his son. Two Beings. One can die. One cannot. One created us. The other saved us via substitutionary punishment by his death. This is a distinction with a difference.

Liar.

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Scripture says all glory to God. It does not say to split the glory among even his Servants, explicitly stated to include Jesus @ Acts 3:13.

Hope this helps.

Liar.

Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

YOU are not the MASTER of anyone. YOU are just like your failing father. Satan. You are a liar and you will soon receive the judgment of the Son. Jesus Christ. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of Jesus Christ. THE living God.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Again. YOU are a lair. I believe the Scriptures.

Jesus said he will judge all men. God said it was fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. You will fall into the hands of Jesus Christ. The living God and face the justice of your mocking deeds in belittling Jesus Christ.

Again. You are just like your father. Satan. You continually LIE about the Son.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Johann]

Thomas made an exclamation. When I drop my toast butter side down, I am not actually stating it is feces.

John 1:1 refers to God and his word, not Jesus who is not even mentioned.

You are twisting and perverting the scriptures man!
Who is the Memra?
Who exactly is GOD AND/KAI..HIS WORD! and don't forget the PROS..

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, I believe what the scriptures tell us that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. (Matthew 16:16) At Luke 1:30-32 the angel announced that Jesus would be great and will be called Son of the Most High. I notice there in Luke chapter 1:30-32 that the angel didn't say Jesus was God, but Son of the Most High. At John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary Magdalene after he's resurrected, to go to his Apostles and disciples and tell them he's ascending to his Father and their Father and his God and their God. At Matthew 3: 17 God says Jesus is his Son whom he has approved and at John 1:34 John the Baptist testifies that Jesus is the Son of God. Martha confessed at John 11:27 that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God. At Acts 9:20 it is said that the apostle Paul began preaching this one(Jesus) is the Son of God. The apostles Peter, Paul, John nor any other of Jesus followers preached that Jesus was God. Everyone of them taught that Jesus is the Son of God. The True God YHWH doesn't have a Father and God. Jesus however does have a Father God so Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of the only True God YHWH.

You are just like your father. Satan. You face the judgement of the LIVING GOD..... Jesus Christ.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

There is no judgement without the Son. You are a liar just like your father Satan.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Really, after you supposedly read my post.

Look Johann either you are being completely dishonest with me or are ignorant and even ignored what I just wrote to you entirely as my last post.

Of course Christ is NOT YHWH. There is no theme, no plan, no plot, no logical argument, no pattern or narrative in scripture that comes close to suggesting such a thing.

Please tell Paul if you see him in the future that the person standing next to him is God Almighty - one of the gods/persons of the same essence of the big triune god! If there is nut ward in the New City of out future, you might find yourself there or chucked out as one that should have been left in the darkness as a heretic.

Dishonest..... Lets see.... You are LYING. Do you teaching yourself?

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

There is no judgement without the Son. You are a liar just like your father Satan.

YOU WILL FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.... Jesus Christ.

You should be afraid. VERY afraid.

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

[Johann]

Liar. Jesus said that people like yourself are just LIKE YOUR FATHER.....

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You are lying. You are just like your LYING father. Satan.



Liar.

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:




Liar.

Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

YOU are not the MASTER of anyone. YOU are just like your failing father. Satan. You are a liar and you will soon receive the judgment of the Son. Jesus Christ. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of Jesus Christ. THE living God.

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Again. YOU are a lair. I believe the Scriptures.

Jesus said he will judge all men. God said it was fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. You will fall into the hands of Jesus Christ. The living God and face the justice of your mocking deeds in belittling Jesus Christ.

Again. You are just like your father. Satan. You continually LIE about the Son.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Leave your opponent, take a deep breath, pray, and respond.
J.

 

[Wrangler]

Sons are not their Fathers. .

Liar.

LOL Sons are their father now? Wow, you got it bad - and can only offer slander.