Why do Catholics…

[Taken]

the “Bible alone” is a false doctrine, only the original manuscripts were inspired word of God! They don’t exist so there can be no doctrine of the “Bible alone “!

The Bible is WRITTEN Scriptures, expressly Authorized BY GOD, for all people to hear, read, know, believe....or not.

Scribes were in the crowds listening writing and wrote first hand notes....passed those notes off to Recorders....Recorded by hand on scrolls....Scrolls were kept in the Temple....Carried about when Jews were under siege....Hidden.....Separated....Pilfered....Burnings...re-Copying....carried about....Hidden....Jews Scattered....Scrolls separated....Paper fibers weakened....

AND...somehow you have concluded there is not ENOUGH IN the Present Bible....suitable for A MAN, to know exactly step by step, HOW TO KNOW...Gods WILL, desire FOR mankind, and HOW TO precisely BE Included or Excluded from Gods WILL ?
Fascinating....God had ZERO Servants on Earth to Accomplish that mission!

Spiritual Understanding of Gods Word.....Written or Oral.....is NOT for all people to hear OR understand.

 

[amadeus]

the “Bible alone” is a false doctrine, only the original manuscripts were inspired word of God! They don’t exist so there can be no doctrine of the “Bible alone “!

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

 

[theefaith]

So what’s the difference between an image and a graven image?

besides the fact that

graven images are forbidden

images are not forbidden

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus commanded his apostles in his church to keep doing it

once bloody on the cross but for all time his sacrifice and merits are offered to the father

pure oblation
Clean offering
Unbloody sacrifice

Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

as a memorial not as an unbloody sacrifice.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not when you still get it wrong....

Well Rome is not a good judge of who is right or wrong! When they can promote the perpetual virginity, the immaculate conception, evolution, celibacy etc.etc.etc. I do not consider them to be apt judges of bible knowledge.

 

[farouk]

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

@amadeus Good verses there...

 

[farouk]

Well Rome is not a good judge of who is right or wrong! When they can promote the perpetual virginity, the immaculate conception, evolution, celibacy etc.etc.etc. I do not consider them to be apt judges of bible knowledge.

@Ronald Nolette What you mention seem to be things that are read into Scripture rather than being what Scripture really says...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Got it. All I have to do is have faith and I am saved. Do nothing else. Don't preach His word. Don't get baptized. Don't feed the hungry. Heck, I don't even have to be kind to anyone; just as long as I am not mean. If I find an injured person alongside the road I just look at them and say "It stinks to be you but I'm not a doctor so I can't help you and you would probably sue me if I did something wrong" and walk away. As long as I have my faith I am saved. Even though I am "created in Christ Jesus to do good works" (vs10), I don't have to do those works because I live by vs 8 and 9. I skip vs10! I have faith that God will give me by his grace if I don't do the works. Also, throw out the rest of Scripture on what it says I have to do to be saved. Just live and die by Ephesians 2:8-9 and I am good to go....

Oh goodness! What twisted things your men have taught you that have tickled your ears. But, Scripture said it would happen.

Now you are throwing in hypotheticals without knowing what takes place in a persons life when they do get saved.

But to answer your silly statement here: If one tries to walk away from the Lord--they can't! Jesus said He would never leave us or forsake us! So if you turn away from Jesus He turns with you!

And I never said you do not have to do good works after you get saved- that is your presumptiousness acting up again!

How about this scenario Ronald: A man goes to a church for bible study at the request of his friend. He's never pursued or been interested in the teachings of Christ. He then hears The Word and decides he is going to live by the teachings of Christ. He now has faith that Jesus is his Lord and Saviour. He wants to get baptized THAT DAY and THAT DAY signs up to work in the food kitchen sponsored by the church that serves the homeless in the community. They tell him baptisms are done on certain days (not that day) so they schedule a baptism a couple weeks out. They welcome him into the church and say that they will see him at the food kitchen in a few days. He's driving home. Crashes his car. Sadly, he dies. Is he saved? I would say, YES, he is saved by faith. He didn't have the opportunity to do the works.

Yes he is saved. Baptism is not essential for salvation!

OR he doesn't die in a car accident. Goes to work the food kitchen once, skips baptism because he is to busy, stops going to church after 6 months even though his attendance was sporadic..... but he is still a nice person and still believes Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour! Two years later he dies. He had the faith, but he didn't do the works.... Is he saved?

I look forward to your response....Mary

Being a nice person doesn't keep one saved! Doing good works doesn't keep one saved. good works are the result of one being saved.

but hypothetically, Either he got saved or didn't and had just a religious experience but not real faith. that is for God to decide and not mortal man.

Got it. Only the Catholic Church....of which you derogatorily call Romanism....is the only Christian institution that calls these things sacraments.

Well, except for all the Orthodox churches and the multiple Protestant denominations that call them sacrements....other than that....ONLY the Catholic Church has a phobic need to call things sacraments.

Keeping it real with facts instead of opinions....Mary

Well the Catholic like churches (orthodox and episcopalian) call lots of things sacraments, but most protestant churches and non-protestant churches like mine have but two Baptism and the Lords supper!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette What you mention seem to be things that are read into Scripture rather than being what Scripture really says...

I am not sure what you mean? Are you saying I read things or that Catholicism reads things in.

 

[farouk]

I am not sure what you mean? Are you saying I read things or that Catholicism reads things in.

The points of R. Catholicism that you mentioned are read into Scripture by members of that church, seemingly.....

 

[theefaith]

The Bible is WRITTEN Scriptures, expressly Authorized BY GOD, for all people to hear, read, know, believe....or not.

Scribes were in the crowds listening writing and wrote first hand notes....passed those notes off to Recorders....Recorded by hand on scrolls....Scrolls were kept in the Temple....Carried about when Jews were under siege....Hidden.....Separated....Pilfered....Burnings...re-Copying....carried about....Hidden....Jews Scattered....Scrolls separated....Paper fibers weakened....

AND...somehow you have concluded there is not ENOUGH IN the Present Bible....suitable for A MAN, to know exactly step by step, HOW TO KNOW...Gods WILL, desire FOR mankind, and HOW TO precisely BE Included or Excluded from Gods WILL ?
Fascinating....God had ZERO Servants on Earth to Accomplish that mission!

Spiritual Understanding of Gods Word.....Written or Oral.....is NOT for all people to hear OR understand.

only the church was founded to teach all men Matt 28:19 without error! Jn 16:14

 

[theefaith]

"Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

our sufficiency is from Christ and His church!

 

[Taken]

So what’s the difference between an image and a graven image?

besides the fact that

graven images are forbidden

images are not forbidden

Oh yikes...!
You don’t know the difference between a painting and a carved image?

Paintings, photos, are images....
Carved wood, molded metal, sculpted clay, statues...and are idols when you bow Dow to them!

 

[Taken]

only the church was founded to teach all men Matt 28:19 without error! Jn 16:14

The Church was established by a Jewish Teacher, for Jewish Students to become Teachers to Teach the Word of God, the Gospel of Christ Jesus, according to the Word of God, to Jews, Tribesmen, lastly, Gentiles.

Not the first time Gentiles squeezed their way in, took over, taught beyond the scope of Scriptures.

 

[Taken]

our sufficiency is from Christ and His church!

When you discover WHAT “His” Church is...oh, never mind, too seeped.

 

[amadeus]

our sufficiency is from Christ and His church!

The word, church, was not in the verse I quoted... You have added the words. Do they apply?

Who is His Church?

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:48-50

Would you say every Catholic is doing the will of Jesus' Father? Those who are not, like those non-Catholics who are not.... are they His brothers, sisters and mothers? And those who not doing the Father's will, are they His Church or part of His Church? According to the scriptures, what is His Church?

 

[Taken]

Excerpt...
Catholic.com

Question:
Why do catholics bow before statues and pray
Answer:
When Catholics kneel before the statue of a saint, they are not worshipping the person depicted, let alone the stone or plaster image as such. Catholics don’t pray to images; they pray through them to the holy persons who are depicted. Sacred images help the faithful focus their minds

*****

Prayer IS the communication avenue to God.
Prayer TO, is reserved for God only.
Bowing down, calling on the Lord God, IS worshiping God.
Bowing down, calling on an others Name, IS worshiping that other.
The Faithful TO GOD, Pray in the spirit, not the MIND.

The Statues, are graven images.
The Bowing down TO a Statue is worshiping the Statue’s representation
The Faithful Pray TO God only and IN the spirit.
Never is anyone Scripturally taught to pray TO anyone but God.
And BYW...”photos” of Jesus? Really a white guy with light brown hair?

 

[Taken]

The word, church, was not in the verse I quoted... You have added the words. Do they apply?

Who is His Church?

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:48-50

Would you say every Catholic is doing the will of Jesus' Father? Those who are not, like those non-Catholics who are not.... are they His brothers, sisters and mothers? And those who not doing the Father's will, are they His Church or part of His Church? According to the scriptures, what is His Church?

A church building, made by the hands of men, are “supposed” to be a House of Prayer, dedicated TO GOD, speaking, teaching, His Approved Word, for any and all...unbelievers, curious, wondering, believers, converted....to gather together TO praise and worship God....

THE CHURCH of Christ Jesus IS within the Converted! AKA...IN Christ.
Immediately after Jesus’ Disciple Peter was given the Revelation from God in Heaven.....Jesus IS the Christ....and the Other Disciples heard;
Jesus (the Christ) immediately said these TWO WORDS...

Matt 16:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

MY CHURCH....personal, Christ ... THE ROCK .... Jesus THE Christ, the Son of the Living God.

HIS Church IS a Spiritual Church, built UPON the Rock solid, never shifting.....CHRIST (ie Power, Spirit Wisdom, Rock, Seed, Spirit) And JESUS (Word, Life, Light, Way, Quickening Spirit of Truth.)
^ that IS the foundation and head of .... HIS CHURCH...
Simply called by Christ Jesus Himself....MY CHURCH. <— mentioned in Scripture (1) time.

All gathering places men build are ... the church. <—- mentioned in Scripture almost (100) times.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Brakelite]

Fundamentalism is spiritual blindness and anarchy!

Fundamentalism as defined by your own church believes...

• The Bible is the word of God
• Salvation by grace through faith in the sacrifice of Christ.
• None other name except Jesus by which man can be saved
• Resurrection
• Looking forward to the second coming.
• Priesthood of all believers

All terribly heretical clearly, and worthy of death to those pesky recalcitrant fundies.

 

[Brakelite]

Soooooo when did that "succession of preachers" teaching the Truth end? Maybe @Backlit and @amadeus can help you out since they "like" your lone wolf Christian mentality that teaches the teaching of the Truth ended at some point in our Christian history.

The teaching of truth never stopped... Don't be silly. Throughout history God has had a remnant of faithful disciples cleaving to God's word as the foundation of faith and practise. The teaching of truth however did stop and become adulterated in certain places and at certain times. Like in Rome for example when the Catholic Church adopted Sunday as a sacred day to replace God's Sabbath. Went downhill further from there. That compromising that appeared along with the union of the church and the Roman state was the beginning of apostasy. Yet there were pockets of faithful Christians elsewhere such as in Britain, Africa and Asia.

The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the church

So don't be so complacent to believe God won't take the kingdom from whatever church distorts, withholds or obliterates truth.

Yup, each individual Christian gets to decide what the Truth is once they confirm that they have been given that Truth by the Holy Spirit. After all, that is what Scripture teaches

This is so typical of you to distort truth and the teachings of others who disagree with you. You have it backwards. If an angel,a teacher, an apostle, or spirit of whatever sort comes with a teaching, they're is no confirmation to be found in that teaching simply because a "spirit" gave it. Whatever is taught by anyone out anything is to be confirmed by God's word. Hence why we don't trust the spirit which taught Innocent to murder heretics.
KJV Isaiah 8:19-20
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.