For those who think Christ is not God.

[Johann]

Cristo...these questions are from a restricted human rational. If we were to rely on that rational for our answers, Mary falling pregnant by the spirit would fall into the category of fantasy/ delusion.

God is invisible by Jesus' own testimony and whats more, he tells us that no man has seen the Father save himself.......so this is my deduction from the available information.....Jesus is the human face/person of God.

Did Adam walk and talk with God?....I think so.....it was also Jesus who John the apostle says created all things.
What is also interesting is that Abraham also saw the human face/person of God.....it must have been who we today know as Jesus.

We need to get over the inane questions we ask to validate our poor understanding and restricted view of God.......an understanding that neither John the Baptist or Jesus shared, otherwise they would never have made statements along the lines of the stones crying out given certain circumstances or them turning into children of Abraham.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
J.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Very simple...


17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],...here we see Christ Jesus is God

Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9],..of what did Christ "emptied" Himself?"

taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8],
OJB

1. and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,

Here we see Christ Jesus Voluntarily became something He was not before, in the likeness of Adam, in His humanity Jesus was depended to His/our Father, to pray to His/our Father whilst still remaining equally God.
This shouldn't be too difficult to grasp, or to understand..

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
J.

That didn't address anything I said.
Let's take it one step at a time.

Jesus prayed and spoke to God.
How can that be if he Jesus is God?

 

[Johann]

Twice, once when Jesus got baptised and once in the transfiguration.

You just "skipped" over a very important word "transfiguration"
See if you can figure it out.
J.

 

[Johann]

Jesus prayed and spoke to God.
How can that be if he Jesus is God?

The Scriptures already answered you.
J.

 

[Cristo Rei]

The Scriptures already answered you.
J.

You've got nothing

 

[Johann]

That didn't address anything I said.
Let's take it one step at a time.

I did address your question, using the Scriptures.
J.

 

[Cristo Rei]

This reminds me of a rabbi who said we can give a 150 different interpretations to any given verse.
J.

I believe that is true. I see it all the time. It's easy to twist words to suit your perspective.

That's why actions speak louder than words and Christ's actions are that he speaks and prays to His Father... God

 

[quietthinker]

You don't like questions.
How about facts.
Jesus prayed and spoke to God.
God spoke back proclaiming "This is my son"
Jesus repeatedly said he is the son of God

Your simply ignoring these facts by using your own human rationale which is flawed.
Address the facts

'facts' is an interesting one. Do we go scientific? We could ask about Mary falling pregnant by the Spirit? what sort of 'facts' could we apply to that?... or do we only call anything that fits our particular paradigm 'facts' and those that don't, we label with some other negative like false or demonic like what the Pharisees did when Jesus told the paralytic to get up and go home?

What I'm saying Cristo is, we need to be mindful we don't shrink the infinite God to fit our finite understanding and then call that understanding 'facts' as if it covers every base.

 

[Cristo Rei]

'facts' is an interesting one. Do we go scientific? We could ask about Mary falling pregnant by the Spirit? what sort of 'facts' could we apply to that?... or do we only call anything that fits our particular paradigm 'facts' and those that don't, we label with some other negative like false or demonic like what the Pharisees did when Jesus told the paralytic to get up and go home?

What I'm saying Cristo is, we need to be mindful we don't shrink the infinite God to fit our finite understanding and then call that understanding 'facts' as if it covers every base.

What?
Are you saying Jesus didn't talk and pray to God?
Are you saying that God did not say "This is my son"?
Are these not facts now?

 

[Johann]

I believe that is true. I see it all the time. It's easy to twist words to suit your perspective.

How correct you are..


1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


2Co_11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Gal_1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:...
J.

 

[quietthinker]

What?
Are you saying Jesus didn't talk and pray to God?
Are you saying that God did not say "This is my son"?
Are these not facts now?

I'm asking you to recognise the tunnel you are viewing along or not be like a horse with blinkers so it won't be distracted by other 'facts'. I'm not disputing that Jesus spoke to his Father. I'm asking you to put your particular preferential view on hold for a bit and recognise there is more to the story than you want to argue......some illustrations of which I touched on in the previous posts.

 

[Cristo Rei]

There is a strong probability that Jesus is the son of God considering the fact that they both say this repeatedly and that Jesus speaks to God often.

 

[Johann]

That didn't address anything I said.
Let's take it one step at a time.

Jesus prayed and spoke to God.
How can that be if he Jesus is God?

I believe your signature says it well...

It is easier to fool a man than to convince him he is being fooled
J.

 

[quietthinker]

There is a strong probability that Jesus is the son of God considering the fact that they both say this repeatedly and that Jesus speaks to God often.

The designation 'Son' is for the benefit of our limitation in understanding the Infinite. It is the closest of relationships we identify. It is not for the purpose of determining a 'created' factor in the God phenomena.
How do I know this?.... because other texts from Genesis to Revelation testify to this.

 

[Johann]

There is a strong probability that Jesus is the son of God considering the fact that they both say this repeatedly and that Jesus speaks to God often.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

Sorry @Pearl & @Goldie75 if I was rude. I have trouble debating with my mental illness. I think I'll back out now.

"Sorry" is a beautiful word to hear around here.

Isaiah 52:7 KJV: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!​

 

[Cristo Rei]

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him.
40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.”
41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.
44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.
Luke 22:39-44

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”
Mark 9:7

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
Matthew 27:46

One must ignore Gods word and Christs actions to be certain that Jesus is God

 

[quietthinker]

oh dear! ... would you consider this illustration or likeness valid Cristo? Flat earthers arguing against a spherical planet.......choosing to be selective with their 'facts' and conveniently denying other facts?

 

[Johann]

One must ignore Gods word and Christs actions to be certain that Jesus is God

Do you still not understand? (Matthew 16:9)
Who do people say the Son of Man is? (Matthew 16:13)
Who do you say I am? (Matthew 16:15)

@Cristo Rei...how do you answer Christo?

135 QUESTIONS JESUS ASKED
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

I said Mary's egg cell and a sperm cell that God created to make a biological Jesus.

How do you get there from here, though:
(Just askin' )

Luke 1:34 KJV: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luke 1:35 KJV: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.​