For those who think Christ is not God.

[APAK]

It must be so Hebrews 2:17
You cant see why?

The NET is a better translation:

2:17 Therefore he had to be made like •his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people.

Every respect = fully human from the line of Adam to which he is to represent those he would save.

To deny this you dont have a High Priest taken among men but something else.

First of all, do not get ahead of yourself with your conclusion about the consequences of not agreeing with you and the way you view this scripture. It is an erroneous conclusion that has nothing to do with my post to Truther.

Heb 2:17 does not address the issue of the unique creation process of the 1st and 2nd Adam that I have commented on. I have not addressed the Son of man as we are also a son of men in 'every respect.' Until now, as I am now forced to do.

As this scripture states, Christ, as the 2nd Adam was made LIKE us. This LIKE is there to let us know that he as the 1st Adam, comes from unique methods of conception, and then these two were also different. This is not common to all mankind at all.

This scripture points to our commonality in all respects with Christ, for him to be the perfect sacrifice for the 1st Adam, and for us, that his human physical composition and human spirit, the way he thinks and acts are like us, although slightly different because of his spiritual condition because of the presence of the HS within him from birth.

And yes, he is fully human from the 1st Adam although again, for emphasis, the process of his conception is not common to all men, period. His spiritual nature from conception was different - he had his Father's presence within his 100% human spirit.

In fact you could say that Yahshua was the 1st and the ONLY naturally born believer in his Father if you get my drift.

So, do you still think I still DENY without cause, that we have a high priest and that Yahshua was not in all respects or in every the same as you or I? He was of of course, although I do not think I was conceived by God, our Father as he was, with his Spirit in him from conception.

 

[quietthinker]

I needed a tyre changed but kept hitting myself in the head with a hammer all the while wondering why the tyre did not change!

 

[face2face]

I agree. But is your son human, presuming you have a son? So if you being corrupted by 6000 years of degeneration, are still able to beget someone after your own kind, why cannot God being perfect, beget someone after His own unique kind... God?

In nature, Jesus was as human as you or I, but the subtle difference not found in his nature, but in his mind.

Take Isaiah 11:3 as a proof text.

Note, this section has nothing to do with his nature, but his mind!

11:2 The Lord’s spirit will rest on him (future Jesus)— a spirit (mind, thinking perception etc.) that gives extraordinary wisdom••, a spirit that provides the ability to execute plans, •a spirit that produces•• absolute loyalty to the Lord. 11:3 •He will take delight in obeying the Lord. •He will not judge by mere appearances, or make decisions on the basis of hearsay•. 11:4 He will treat the poor fairly, and make right decisions for the downtrodden of the earth. •He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and•••• order the wicked to be executed.

So you could say, with confidence, he was like his mother in nature 100%, but had a bent toward His Fathers thinking i,e Spirit, Wisdom etc.

 

[APAK]

I needed a tyre changed but kept hitting myself in the head with a hammer all the while wondering why the tyre did not change!

Yes, human two-way communications miscues when one side in their eagerness thinks they know what the other guy is already thinking and before you know it, they are already drawing conclusions for him.

 

[face2face]

First of all, do not get ahead of yourself with your conclusion about the consequences of not agreeing with you and the way you view this scripture. It is an erroneous conclusion that has nothing to do with my post to Truther.

Heb 2:17 does not address the issue of the unique creation process of the 1st and 2nd Adam that I have commented on. I have not addressed the Son of man as we are also a son of men in 'every respect.' Until now, as I am now forced to do.

As this scripture states, Christ, as the 2nd Adam was made LIKE us. This LIKE is there to let us know that he as the 1st Adam, comes from unique methods of conception, and then these two were also different. This is not common to all mankind at all.

You need to prove this unique method of conception and where is it stated in the Gospel record? Show us how Jesus was different in nature to Adam? The first Adam was created from the dust, of which all others including Christ existed. Galatians 4:4-5

This scripture points to our commonality in all respects with Christ, for him to be the perfect sacrifice for the 1st Adam, and for us, that his human physical composition and human spirit, the way he thinks and acts are like us, although slightly different because of his spiritual condition because of the presence of the HS within him from birth.

And yes, he is fully human from the 1st Adam although again, for emphasis, the process of his conception is not common to all men, period. His spiritual nature from conception was different - he had his Father's presence within his 100% human spirit.

I need your authority stated - again its just words without a basis.

In fact you could say that Yahshua was the 1st and the ONLY naturally born believer in his Father if you get my drift.

Absolutely true!

So, do you still think I still DENY without cause, that we have a high priest and that Yahshua was not in all respects or in every the same as you or I? He was of of course, although I do not think I was conceived by God, our Father as he was, with his Spirit in him from conception.

Again, can you show in the text where God's Spirit was in him from conception? Is this an assumption on your part?

I believe this Spirit came upon him in the form of a dove, post baptism. Luke 3:21. However, it was the Holy Spirit which gave the conception. In terms of that conception, I believe Jesus was given no advantage over us in any way. His flesh was not engineer to desire less, or be able to resist temptation. I say this not as an assumption, but all the text Paul states that Jesus was made flesh and blood in every respect as we are...if you believe this, and you believe God condemn sin is his (Jesus) nature then by this definition Jesus cannot be God. The focus of condemnation is in Jesus - hence the tree!

But God chose what the world thinks foolish to shame the wise, and God chose what the world thinks weak to shame the strong.

 

[face2face]

The question I think needs answering in this thread is this.

Romans 8:1-3

Did God send His Son in the likeness (identical) of human flesh that he might in “the body of that flesh through death,” condemn sin in the eyes of all the world?

If you don't believe Jesus had sinful tendencies, then your belief is not in line with God, Jesus and the Apostles.

It would also means that if Jesus did not "put on of the new man" which was made through suffering, then his sacrifice was farcical and a pretense, and in no way revealed the Righteousness of God upon our weak nature, which Jesus shared. 2 Corinthians 13:4 weakness here means crucified flesh!

Christ showed the "old man" i.e flesh and blood nature had to be swallowed up before the "new man" could be given life.

Romans 6:6 We know that our old man (flesh & blood nature) was crucified with him (context is by faith through baptism) so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

This is as true of Jesus, as it will be of us. Not until Jesus nature was changed (resurrection) from this body of sin to the glorified body that he was rid of a nature which could potentially dominate him as it does us.

In all these matters he was the firstborn among his brothers.

 

[APAK]

You need to prove this unique method of conception and where is it stated in the Gospel record? Show us how Jesus was different in nature than Adam? The first Adam was created from the dust, of which all others including Christ existed. Galatians 4:4-5



I need your authority stated - again its just words without a basis.



Absolutely true!



Again, can you show in the text where God's Spirit was in him from conception? Is this an assumption on your part?

I believe this Spirit came upon him in the form of a dove, post baptism. Luke 3:21. However, it was the Holy Spirit which gave the conception. In terms of that conception, I believe Jesus was given no advantage over us in any way. His flesh was not engineer to desire less, or be able to resist temptation. I say this not as an assumption, but all the text Paul states that Jesus was made flesh and blood in every respect as we are...if you believe this, and you believe God condemn sin is his (Jesus) nature then by this definition Jesus cannot be God. The focus of condemnation is in Jesus - hence the tree!

But God chose what the world thinks foolish to shame the wise, and God chose what the world thinks weak to shame the strong.

You still are not reading all my words in understanding.

Christ was conceived by the HS and the 1st Adam was not as we are not. Thus Christ had his Father's spirit within him from conception, the 1st Adam did not because of how he was fashioned or made. God breathed life into the 1st Adam from the 'outside'...'into his nostrils.' God's spirit was outside of the 1st Adam and upon him, and his body. The HS was not only surrounding Mary, it also made its presence on the inside of the 2nd Adam, when he impregnated Mary's egg. There is NO scripture that explicitly says all this. You won't find it anyway. One has to infer from other scriptures and their context to be logically true.

Now as you said, at Christ's baptism he was empowered by the Full presence of his Father beside angels then constantly attending him. This was necessary for him to to be sin-free and complete his mission to the Cross.

At Christ's birth, the HS did not empower or drive Yahshua as in a possession of his human spirit. That would have been very premature, indeed. The spirit of the Father still spoke and directed the young future Christ however to maturity and provide gifts of knowledge and truth and wisdom to understand him, who loved him.

Yahshua always felt the Father's presence within his heart and mind and they exchanged their thoughts as revealed in a scant way presented in scripture, when Yahshua would acknowledge he is doing his Father's work...this was nothing like the power of the HS unleashed upon Christ when he became baptized.

 

[face2face]

You still are not reading all my words in understanding.

Christ was conceived by the HS and the 1st Adam was not as we are not. Thus Christ had his Father's spirit within him from conception, the 1st Adam did not because of how he was fashioned or made. God breathed life into the 1st Adam from the 'outside'...'into his nostrils.' God's spirit was outside of the 1st Adam and upon him, and his body. The HS was not only surrounding Mary, it also made its presence on the inside of the 2nd Adam, when he impregnated Mary's egg. There is NO scripture that explicitly says all this. You won't find it anyway. One has to infer from other scriptures and their context to be logically true.

So I did understand you correctly and your admission to have no inspired support is what I was looking for. I am right there is greater textual support to show Jesus was a living breathing creature just as Adam was, Christ being born in the line of Adam..i.e with Adams nature along with all its propensities to sin. Romans 5:12

This is essential to understand the true nature of Christ and not the non scriptural model of him sharing in two natures.

 

[Waiting on him]

When I see condemned sin in the flesh too me it means he rendered it useless.

 

[Waiting on him]

For Jesus too render it useless he himself had to partake as we.


John 6:63 KJV
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[APAK]

The question I think needs answering in this thread is this.

Romans 8:1-3

Did God send His Son in the likeness (identical) of human flesh that he might in “the body of that flesh through death,” condemn sin in the eyes of all the world?

If you don't believe Jesus had sinful tendencies, then your belief is not in line with God, Jesus and the Apostles.

It would also means that if Jesus did not "put on of the new man" which was made through suffering, then his sacrifice was farcical and a pretense, and in no way revealed the Righteousness of God upon our weak nature, which Jesus shared. 2 Corinthians 13:4 weakness here means crucified flesh!

Christ showed the "old man" i.e flesh and blood nature had to be swallowed up before the "new man" could be given life.

Romans 6:6 We know that our old man (flesh & blood nature) was crucified with him (context is by faith through baptism) so that the body of sin would no longer dominate us, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

This is as true of Jesus, as it will be of us. Not until Jesus nature was changed (resurrection) from this body of sin to the glorified body that he was rid of a nature which could potentially dominate him as it does us.

Do not take offense, only as advice: I've notice you have a constant tendency to think out loud and assume too much and speak on behalf of others, and you are getting it all wrong, at least with me. You seem to have a view of this subject for example that you blind side me with, now every time you return a post. You then add more questions without first discussing the first, or prior ones.

It can get to be a little annoying face2face. Just saying

 

[Waiting on him]

So I did understand you correctly and your admission to have no inspired support is what I was looking for. I am right there is greater textual support to show Jesus was a living breathing creature just as Adam was, Christ being born in the line of Adam..i.e with Adams nature along with all its propensities to sin. Romans 5:12

This is essential to understand the true nature of Christ and not the non scriptural model of him sharing in two natures.

This procreation I once resided in profits nothing it’s all vanity.

 

[face2face]

When I see condemned sin in the flesh too me it means he rendered it useless.

Correct to render something as being useless one must have it, right...otherwise how so?

 

[Waiting on him]

Even upon his resurrection he breathes on them hoping they will receive the breath of life.

 

[face2face]

Do not take offense, only as advice: I've notice you have a constant tendency to think out loud and assume too much and speak on behalf of others, and you are getting it all wrong, at least with me. You seem to have a view of this subject for example that you blind side me with, now every time you return a post. You then add more questions without first discussing the first, or prior ones.

It can get to be a little annoying face2face. Just saying

Be as honest as you want APAK...I wont be offended.

 

[face2face]

Did God send His Son in the likeness (identical) of human flesh that he might in “the body of that flesh through death,” condemn sin in the eyes of all the world?

Yes or No?

 

[Waiting on him]

But he still yet had to ascend too the Father so the Father could send the breath of life.

 

[APAK]

So I did understand you correctly and your admission to have no inspired support is what I was looking for. I am right there is greater textual support to show Jesus was a living breathing creature just as Adam was, Christ being born in the line of Adam..i.e with Adams nature along with all its propensities to sin. Romans 5:12

This is essential to understand the true nature of Christ and not the non scriptural model of him sharing in two natures.

Ok, you do not want to listen to anyone except yourself I see.

Look it mate what were YOU looking for.? Are YOU having your own discussion here. WHEN and WHERE did I say that the 1st and 2nd Adam were not living and breathing creatures? You made it up mate didn't you? And then for what reason...?

..there are words for folks like you. Get over yourself. And you really do not know what dribble you are dropping here, and its a lot.

I think we have a failure to communicate mate and its not from my side either. Please stop assuming you know my words and then misquote or even twist my words. You are a very confusing and inarticulate fella indeed.

Happy trails and keep listening to yourself, and see how far you can persuade others with that...

 

[face2face]

But he still yet had to ascend too the Father so the Father could send the breath of life.

Breath of life has no spiritual significance. Genesis 1:30 just means animals and people alike became living creature...that's all...nothing more.

 

[face2face]

Ok, you do not want to listen to anyone except yourself I see.

Look it mate what were YOU looking for.? Are YOU having your own discussion here. WHEN and WHERE did I say that the 1st and 2nd Adam were not living and breathing creature? You made it up mate didn't you? And then for what reason...?

..there are words for folks like you. Get over yourself. And you really do not know what dribble you are dropping here, and its a lot.

I think we have a failure to communicate mate and its not from my side either. Please stop assuming you know my words and then misquote or even twist my words. You are a very confusing and inarticulate fella indeed.

Happy trails and keep listening to yourself, and see how far you can persuade others with that...

Lets pause for a while shall we. Regroup...my bad I thought I was responding to brakelights comments. Apologies APAK.