When the Bible says, "Dead", what does it mean?

[Wrangler]

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

The Bible is a highly figurative book. We speak this way today, referring to death metaphorically. Example: ‘He is dead to me.’

The ‘to me’ context alerts us to the metaphorical nature of the statement.

Parallel to this is the Bible using the word sleep metaphorically as death.

Your basic premise, that the Bible uses a different language of special word meanings is absurd, if not Gnosticism.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It's an interesting question, I want to think about it a bit, when that death comes.

Maybe the answer is when he learned what the law required, that was when he became responsible for obedience, and lacking obedience, "sin came alive, and I died". This seems to go towards the whole "age of responsibility" question, and imputation of sin.

Romans 5 says that sin is not imputed when there isn't law. It really is an interesting question!

I agree with @amigo de christo , in that Paul wrote before his physical death. Still going to think about this.

Much love!

my complications with the topic at hand is this …personally I think of the verse concerning the fruit of death saying you have tasted it and know the end of those things you carried on in, which you are now ashamed of. For me, I’ve thought about the blessing of bearing something before the coffin that lasts and doesn’t perish. How that is the Hope and (Trust in Him) instead of bearing nothing but evil and emptiness and then comes the coffin. What loss? We talk about it, debating people who the coffin comes for and we wonder if what…? “were they saved”? Saved from …What?

But God is restoration, yeah? But (again it is only an opinion) how God is amazing to give opportunity for something more before the coffin comes: Life, having passed from death unto Life, having passed from darkness (which you are now ashamed of) unto Light (where they will not be ashamed those who put their trust in Him); something that leads to better than “those things you are now ashamed of”.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Interestingly,

John 2:19-22 LITV
19) Jesus said to them, Destroy this sanctuary, and in three days I will raise it up.
20) Then the Jews said, This sanctuary was forty six years being built, and do You raise it up in three days?
21) But He spoke about the sanctuary of His body.
22) Then when He was raised from the dead, His disciples recalled that He said this to them. And they believed the Scripture, even the Word that Jesus spoke.

How did Jesus raise Himself? It's as if physical death was not the end of Jesus' existence.

Matthew 12:39-40 LITV
39) But answering, He said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet.
40) And even as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

So then, where was Jesus while His body lay in the tomb?

Much love!

There are those who take John 2:19-22 out of context. But we must harmonize Jesus’ words with many other scriptures. There are just too many numerous scriptures that show Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, but that he was resurrected by YHWH God his Father. Some of those scriptures are Romans 8:11; 1Corinthians 15:15; Ephesians 1:20. So how are we to logically view John 2:19?

The context must be examined. John 2:13-18 shows that Jesus had cleansed the literal temple at Jerusalem, driving from it those who were making it a place of merchandise, and as a result was confronted with this question from the Jews: “What sign have you to show us since you are doing these things?” Then in John 2:19, Jesus told them the sign, which is the basis of our question. John 2:20-22 continues: “Therefore the Jews said: ‘This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this.”

When we look at the scriptures in context it shows that Jesus was not talking about his physical body, but “he was talking about the temple of his body”. The temple in Jerusalem that Jesus cleansed represented not Jesus alone but also the body members over which he is head. Just as the literal temple was not made up of one stone but many, so “the temple of his body” consists of many living stones, with Jesus as the foundation cornerstone: 1 Peter 2:4-7 say, “You yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

After the Jews rejected Christ the living stone and put him to death, on the third day after his death YHWH God raised him up to become the chief cornerstone of the temple of living stones then under preparation. Jesus immediately appeared to his disciples and lifted them up out of their low spirits and built them up spiritually so that they could “offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God”. That this building of “the temple of his body” started then and continued through the years that followed is shown by Peter’s use of the present tense when years afterwards he said Christ’s followers “are being built up a spiritual house”.

Now looking at these scriptures in this context, we must return to the consideration of Jesus’ words, “In three days I will raise it up.” We have seen how he did start giving attention to the building up of the temple of living stones after he was resurrected three days after his death. Yet it might be argued with some force that since Jesus was to be the chief cornerstone and he was the firstfruits of the resurrection, the first one to be built up for use in the construction of the spiritual house or temple, we cannot eliminate him entirely from this building work and apply the expressions concerning it to his followers only. But we cannot say that Jesus raised himself, for he was dead for three days. There will be those who disagree and believe and teach that Jesus was still living but he was not. He was dead for parts of three days. Also, we have to take into consideration that John 2: 22 specifically says that "he was raised up from the dead," not that he raised himself. Is there any way, then, that we could understand and harmonize in a reasonable way Jesus’ statement that “in three days I will raise it up”, having it embrace his own resurrection as a chief cornerstone as well as the building up of his followers as living stones?

There is a reasonable explanation. When Jesus said, “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” he was speaking in a predictive sense; not that he would raise himself up, but that he predicted that three days after his death by the temple of God would begin to be raised up, beginning with the head member of it. We have examples of this predictive use of a term elsewhere in the Bible, where an individual says he will do a thing, but he actually does not do it at all. It comes about only as a result of his action.

In Isaiah 6:9, 10 where YHWH God appears to Isaiah and says, “Go and tell these people.” And then what does he say? He says: “Make the heart of these people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.” Now, God did not mean for Isaiah to actually go and fatten their hearts and stop up their ears and close their eyes to stop any repentance; but he was predicting that it would be the effect of the message that Isaiah had been commanded to go tell the people, that the people themselves would show closed eyes and unhearing ears and fatty hearts, that they would not repent and turn to Jehovah for healing spiritually.

A similar scripture is found in Ezekiel 43:3 where Ezekiel sees the vision of Jehovah coming to the temple, and says it was “according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city”. But Ezekiel did not come to destroy Jerusalem; he came only to predict the destruction of the city by the Babylonians. Yet he spoke of himself as doing it. So in the same predictive sense, Jesus could speak as though he was going to raise himself, yet it was actually YHWH God who resurrected him.

We also have those controversial scriptures where it says YHWH God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. He said in Exodus 7:3, 4: “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you.” Now, YHWH God didn't actually harden the heart of Pharaoh, but he was predicting that Pharaoh’s heart would be hardened as a result of the message sent to him by Moses and Aaron and that the repeated extension of God’s mercy to him would not soften him but would cause his heart to harden even more. It's not unusual for wicked men to interpret YHWH God's long-suffering as a sign of weakness and thus become more set in their evil ways, thinking the time of reckoning will never come. This is shown to us in Ecclesiastes 8:11 which says: “Because sentence against an evil
work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.”

There are a number of other Scriptural examples where one person is spoken of as doing a thing, not because he actually does it, but because he predicts it or it results from some action of his. So it is at John 2:19. Jesus’ words, “In three days I will raise it up,” were merely predicting that the temple would be raised up on the third day after his death and YHWH God was the one who raised up the temple by first raising up the head member of it, the Lord Jesus Christ, and from that third day on, God used him to raise up all the other members of the temple class. (Zechariah 6:12) So through the Roman military, the Jews put to death the chief member of God’s spiritual temple, but on the third day, YHWH God raised him as a spirit creature and the chief cornerstone of the spiritual temple.

 

[marks]

Example: ‘He is dead to me.’

The ‘to me’ context alerts us to the metaphorical nature of the statement.

Your imprecision of language does not make God imprecise.

And what is the effect of your suggestion here? What happens when I put this to the test? What happens when we preface "death" with "not really, just in a sense"?

Romans 6:6-12 KJV
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin. (What would make you free from sin?)
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (Dead how? as an idea?)
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Not really dead indeed unto sin?

Reckon yourself as sin being more repugnant? What would it mean? And why would it have any power? If dead is not really dead?

In Christ's death, in our sharing in Christ's death, that's the power of a new life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are those who take John 2:19-22 out of context. But we must harmonize Jesus’ words with many other scriptures. There are just too many numerous scriptures that show Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, but that he was resurrected by YHWH God his Father.

This is my complaint.

You say that I should disbelieve Jesus because you understand something different. It's not that His words are taken out of context. The context is that Jesus was using the temple as a metaphor for His body, and and His claim was that if the Jews destroyed it - His body - He would raise it again in three days.

Your assertion is that since you don't believe YHWH and Jesus are One and the Same, that Jesus' words should not be taken at face value. I disagree. I think we should believe Him when He speaks.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are just too many numerous scriptures that show Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, but that he was resurrected by YHWH God his Father. Some of those scriptures are Romans 8:11; 1Corinthians 15:15; Ephesians 1:20. So how are we to logically view John 2:19?

It's not just Jesus' resurrection where you run into that problem.

Each are called God:

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Each acts in the same capacities as God:

Creating:

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

Colossians 1:16 (speaking of Jesus) For by him were all things created,

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Psalm 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

John 1:3 (of Jesus) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gives to us eternal life:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Raised Jesus from the dead:

1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit:

Everywhere at once (omnipresent):

Jereriah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

Ephesians 1:23 (speaking of Jesus) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Saves us:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Titus 3:4-6 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So then yes, what are we to make of that?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Ephesians 2:1-5 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.
4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5) even we being dead in deviations, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are being saved),

Romans 6:7 LITV
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.

What are these passages telling us? What does "death" mean in the Bible?

Colossians 2:13 LITV
13) And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,

Colossians 3:1-5 LITV
1) If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God;
2) mind the things above, not the things on the earth.
3) For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
4) Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory.
5) Then put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil lust, and covetousness, which is idolatry;

Romans 7:4-6 LITV
4) So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
6) But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

Romans 6:11 LITV
11) So also you count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Truly dead! Truly?

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Much love!

I'd really recommend trying a KJV Bible instead of that version. The KJV makes those Scriptures a bit more clear.

 

[marks]

I'd really recommend trying a KJV Bible instead of that version. The KJV makes those Scriptures a bit more clear.

Normally I use the KJV. Where do you see the LITV lacking clarity in these passages?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Normally I use the KJV. Where do you see the LITV lacking clarity in these passages?

Much love!

For one example...

Rom 6:7
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV

... is much easier for me to understand than...


Romans 6:7 LITV
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.


The KJV meaning is simply that being dead means not able to sin anymore, pointing to our flesh causing much of our sins. The LITV instead uses the idea of being "justified" which really is not really the context Paul is pointing to, even though the Greek word can mean 'justify'.

Rom 6:6-7
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV

In the KJV, Paul doesn't contrast sin with philosophical ideas, but directly with our flesh body, a body that is to be destroyed. Some Bible versions change that meaning, because of the man-made doctrines they support. Can you fathom why the Bible version you quoted changed Paul's context about a flesh body of death?

 

[marks]

The KJV meaning is simply that being dead means not able to sin anymore, pointing to our flesh causing much of our sins. The LITV instead uses the idea of being "justified" which really is not really the context Paul is pointing to, even though the Greek word can mean 'justify'.

I think if we dig a little deeper here that we see something wonderful.

Being Justified mean to be rendered righteous. In some uses it seems a judicial justification, as in the case of Abraham, sin not being imputed.

Being justified away from sin, to me, speaks of being reborn makes us righteous in Christ, and it's that righteousness in Christ that is our freedom from sin.

I think that the KJV did well in rendering the word "free", that's the general idea, but I find in the Greek word something more, and which is upheld across Scripture. Christ in you is your hope of glory.

The body of sin, or "body of our humilition", the corrupt flesh, we are released from it's corruption having been rendered righteous in Christ.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Ephesians 2:1-5 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.
4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5) even we being dead in deviations, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are being saved),

Romans 6:7 LITV
7) For the one that died has been justified from sin.

What are these passages telling us? What does "death" mean in the Bible?

Colossians 2:13 LITV
13) And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,

Colossians 3:1-5 LITV
1) If, then, you were raised with Christ, seek the things above, where Christ is sitting at the right of God;
2) mind the things above, not the things on the earth.
3) For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
4) Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory.
5) Then put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil lust, and covetousness, which is idolatry;

Romans 7:4-6 LITV
4) So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
6) But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

Romans 6:11 LITV
11) So also you count yourselves to be truly dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Truly dead! Truly?

If Death only means the cessation of life, and you are alive if you are standing, and when you die you just drop and that's the end, how you account for the sayings of these passages? And many more like them?

Much love!

The general thrust of all scripture is that all who are born are in need of rescue from death to life; and therefore all who are God's should know that life in this world is not life according to God, but actually death. Truly.

This is a mystery of God, that only God could give life to the dead, and there place life and death before each person, that they might choose life and [actually] live.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is my complaint.

You say that I should disbelieve Jesus because you understand something different. It's not that His words are taken out of context. The context is that Jesus was using the temple as a metaphor for His body, and and His claim was that if the Jews destroyed it - His body - He would raise it again in three days.

Your assertion is that since you don't believe YHWH and Jesus are One and the Same, that Jesus' words should not be taken at face value. I disagree. I think we should believe Him when He speaks.

Much love!

You say we should believe Jesus when he speaks, so that means I should believe him when he says at John 20:17 that after his resurrection that he said he has a Father and God that is his Apostles and disciples Father and God, right? That would mean YHWH is the Father and God of Jesus so YHWH is my Father and God just as he is Jesus Father and God.
This means YHWH God and Jesus are not the same person and it was YHWH God who resurrected Jesus.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Marks said:
Each are called God[/QUOTE\]
No they're not, but obviously you're not going to believe that.

 

[Wrangler]

Your imprecision of language does not make God imprecise.

Figurative use of language is not imprecise; it’s just not literal.

Death is literally the end of life, which is quite precise.

 

[Davy]

I think if we dig a little deeper here that we see something wonderful.

Being Justified mean to be rendered righteous. In some uses it seems a judicial justification, as in the case of Abraham, sin not being imputed.

That's not Paul's context, and I showed that in the verse just prior to that...

Rom 6:5-7
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV

Apostle Paul's subject is indeed about the idea of Christ's resurrection being an example, but Paul makes it clear in verses 6 & 7 that our flesh is a body of sin ordained to be destroyed. That is why Paul says, "that the body of sin might be destroyed", and "he that is dead is freed from sin".

That means it is our spiritual body... that is raised from the dead, not our flesh body. It is also why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Our flesh body is a body of corruption, and it is to be destroyed. And it is at flesh death, or for those at Christ's coming when their flesh body is cast off, both ways the flesh going back to the elements of the earth where it came from.

But inserting the idea of 'justified' in that other Bible version you were using, that is trying to interpret the Greek as if Paul was speaking of our FLESH BODY being justified, which is not what Paul said at all. What doctrine of man would that be following? It's man's theory of 'soul sleep' and that the resurrection is about literal flesh being raised for Christ's Kingdom. And that kind of idea of course contradicts Paul in the following...

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

 

[marks]

But inserting the idea of 'justified' in that other Bible version you were using, that is trying to interpret the Greek as if Paul was speaking of our FLESH BODY being justified, which is not what Paul said at all.

You do, realize, right, that "justified" was the actual word Paul wrote there? So if your issue is in the use of that word, than it's with the Bible and not with me.

The KJV didn't actually translate that part, they interpretted it. I think their interpretation is accurate, none the less, it's not the translation.

I don't see it as meaning our flesh body is justified though.

We are justified away from sin, because in our being justified, we've been separated from our flesh body. Now alive in the Spirit.

As far as what doctrine of man, I have no idea, this is the saying of the Bible.

But this is why God tells us a little further down, Reckon yourself dead indeed to sin, and alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

We are to count it true, because it is true.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

You do, realize, right, that "justified" was the actual word Paul wrote there? So if your issue is in the use of that word, than it's with the Bible and not with me.

Stop right there.

Rom 6:6-7
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
KJV


Paul's meaning in those SPECIFIC verses is about a literal 'dead body'. That is NOT in the spiritual sense!

So guess what? When anyone dies in the their flesh, they STOP sinning. Why? Because Paul also showed in the next Romans 7 Chapter, the flesh body represents the LAW OF SIN...

Rom 7:17-23
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
KJV

 

[Davy]

It is truly amazing, how many brethren are trapped today into the falsehood of thinking Christ's Salvation is about the flesh. It is not! Those ideas are man's flesh talking, because the devil wants us to think that eternal life depends upon having a flesh body. He even wants us to fear dying so much that we won't be able to make a stand against him and his servants during our time here on this earth. Jesus said to NOT fear those who can kill our flesh, but not our soul (Matthew 10:28).

So if you ever want to know where that 'weakness' of mind comes from in wanting your flesh to be immortal, it is actually an idea from the devil and the fleshy works of iniquity here on earth. Those workers hate the idea of their flesh perishing forever, because they like it here, and want to do whatever they... want, denying God and His Christ. They want flesh immortality! But that just ain't gonna' happen. All flesh is destined to go back to the dust of the earth where God took it from. And there is only immortality of one's soul and spirit through Christ Jesus, and none other.

 

[Davy]

So if your issue is in the use of that word, than it's with the Bible and not with me.

The KJV didn't actually translate that part, they interpretted it. I think their interpretation is accurate, none the less, it's not the translation.

I don't see it as meaning our flesh body is justified though.

The reason the KJV translated that Greek as "free" is because of the CONTEXT Paul is speaking of about a DEAD FLESH BODY. If it was to mean 'justify' like you say, then it would be justifying a 'dead flesh body'.

We are justified away from sin, because in our being justified, we've been separated from our flesh body. Now alive in the Spirit.

Yeah, and so our flesh body is destined to what?

As far as what doctrine of man, I have no idea, this is the saying of the Bible.

Well, what doctrine of man would want to try and 'justify' our flesh, instead of our spirit?

But this is why God tells us a little further down, Reckon yourself dead indeed to sin, and alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord.

We are to count it true, because it is true.

Much love!

Yeah, we are to reckon our flesh body of sin as being dead with Christ, and our spirit inside our flesh as already having been raised... with Jesus Christ unto eternal Life, even though it has not literally taken place just yet. This is why Lord Jesus said for His faithful, they shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death until life (John 5:24).

 

[marks]

If it was to mean 'justify' like you say, then it would be justifying a 'dead flesh body'.

That's not how I understand this. We - not our flesh - the person has been justified. And that justification removes us from sin in our flesh.

And in this way, "reckon yourself dead indeed to sin" is actually to believe something that is true, not to believe something that is not true yet.

Much love!