Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[1stCenturyLady]

Luke 11:24-26

I'll print out your testimony to read tonight in bed. But how does Luke 1124-26 apply to "Jesus telling those who had not yet been born again of the Spirit to endure until that time, which had not yet come." I don't understand what you mean. "To endure until that time." ??? What does that mean, and how does it have anything to do with demon possession?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And Paul says to "pray without ceasing".....yet, that would be 24/7, and no sleep in between.
So, verses, if you try to make them all extremely LITERAL to fit some doctrine you are creating, then you turn yourself into a theological pretzel.

"quench the Spirit"......is not to get it out of you, 1stcenturylady.
Jesus said he will never leave you.....and that is Christ in you, the hope of Glory.
He's not going anywhere, because you behaved badly, or lost your faith, for a few years.

The next part, or verse says what not to do with Prophecies..

So, this is a person who is either become faith broken and has lost their spiritual eye.. In other words, cant discern, can't hear the Spirit's leading.
They can also kill (quench) the "spirit" in a Church that is spirit filled by causing chaos in the membership by spreading cult theology.

It can be that a person , who is born again, who is "fallen from Grace", and is now a self saving Legalist, will become so deceived that they get a carnal fleshly adrenaline type RUSH, in their body, and their mind becomes excited when they teach lies from a Pulpit and on a Forum.
They have so quenched the spirit in themselves, that they now believe that the feeling they get by teaching lies, is the spirit.

Behold, do you believe there will be those who were practicing willful sins of lawlessness when they died, but prophesied to be following Christ will be still saved and in heaven when He comes.

 

[farouk]

I am NOT ALL KNOWING, nor proclaim such a notion.

IF there is some “misdeed” Thought...that comes to my MIND, TOWARD men, I have a Remedy, Acceptable to the Lord God.

IF there is some “misdeed” I commit...ie a TRESPASS, TOWARD men. I have a Remedy, Acceptable to the Lord God.

I Think no “misdeed” toward The Lord God.
I COMMIT no “misdeed” to The Lord God.

@Taken John's First Epistle indeed says: "We have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous".

 

[Heart2Soul]

In the scripture you are referring to in James 2, he was comparing the Old Covenant Commandments to the Law of Liberty, the New Covenant verse 12.

Heart2Soul are you really a fan of John MacArthur?

Don't know him

 

[farouk]

Heart2Soul are you really a fan of John MacArthur?

He has written some good material.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How can a heresy be ‘godly’? In short, it can’t. Godliness is about conformity to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). However, most cases of (reasonably convincing) false teaching will consist of biblical truths that have been skewed in some way. The ingredients are good, but the recipe is incomplete or else has had unwelcome things added, and the result is a theological and practical mess.

Sinless Perfectionism is a doctrine like that. In short, it holds that it is possible for Christians to completely defeat sin in the present life and to live holy lives like Jesus did.

At a glance, it makes a lot of sense. Jesus came to save us from sin. He died for our sins on the cross and he sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14). Christians should have the highest aspirations for living holy lives and rejecting all sin.

Sinless Perfectionism is Unbiblical
However, the Bible also says that ‘If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us’ (1 John 1:8). It speaks of the fact that until the resurrection we must be at war with sinful desires (Galatians 5:16-17). Sin is not an enemy ‘out there’. It’s an enemy within that lives and feeds off our fallen human desires and weaknesses (James 1:13-15).

That is why sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.

Sinless perfectionism is not only untrue but also dangerous. People don’t tend to win battles that they don’t even realise they are supposed to be fighting.


There is a much-repeated (but possibly untrue) story about the 19th century Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon in which he debunked perfectionism in a memorable way.[1]

Spurgeon was at a conference where a preacher taught perfectionism in an outspoken manner and even claimed to have reached a state of sinless perfection himself. Spurgeon didn’t challenge him on the spot. Instead, the next morning he poured a pitcher of milk over the man’s head, to which the ‘perfectionist’ responded with the kind of rage and hostility that you’d expect from any sinner. Perfectionism debunked.

We like this story. It’s funny to hear of false teaching being exposed in an amusing way. But I suspect that our reaction is far too smug. It betrays an attitude of self-assurance at precisely the point where we should feel our greatest need. It demonstrates a disturbing lack of concern about the fact that we sin and that our sin is deeply offensive to God. When we remember this then it’s impossible to gleefully say in our hearts: “you stupid perfectionists—of course we all sin!” Are we pleased with the situation? Have we forgotten what sin is? Even though we know that it’s false, shouldn’t we wish that sinless perfectionism were true? Don’t you long to be free of sin?

Spiritual Complacency is Unbiblical Too
If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it is the sin of spiritual complacency. It’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability. It’s acceptance that sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that. It’s responding to occasions of sin by almost justifying it with glib lines like: “we know that we all sin.” That is a ghastly attitude for a Christian to have and it needs to be challenged.

If there is an equal and opposite error to sinless perfectionism then it’s shrugging your shoulders at sin’s inevitability—sin is just part of life, and I’m OK with that.


It is easy for me to criticize sinless perfectionism because I don’t personally know any Christians who struggle with this doctrine. However, I dare say that I know an entire evangelical culture that is complacent about sin. We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy (1 Thessalonians 4:3). We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely. We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come will be obsessed with living a holy life now (1 John 3:2-3).

Jesus taught that Christians would ‘hunger and thirst’ after righteousness (Matthew 5:6). Imagine a man who has been deprived of food and water for far too long. Hunger and thirst are not just a thought in his head, but all-encompassing desires that cannot be ignored. His whole body cries out for sustenance! He will never – can never – be satisfied until his desire is satiated. Is our hunger for righteousness like that? That’s what perfectionism (at its best) gets right. It desires to be without sin. That is a profoundly godly ambition, and one that all Christians should share. We recognise that we will inevitably fall short. But we are not happy about it.

Come Lord Jesus!



[1] I suspect this anecdote evolved from an incident that Spurgeon recounted in his autobiography which isn’t nearly as exciting. However, the point is the same: Spurgeon exposed a self-professed “perfectionist” as sinful by driving him to anger. See C.H. Spurgeon, C.H. Spurgeon’s Autobiography: 1. The Early Years (Edinburgh: Banner of Truth, 1962), 229.

The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism - The Gospel Coalition | Australia

J.

Believers are to meet the bare minimum level requirement for living holy to enter the Kingdom. As I told you before, Sinless Perfection is going beyond the basic requirements of living holy to enter God’s Kingdom. So Sinless Perfection is not a salvation issue (Although the Bible does teach that it is possible to be perfect and to sin no more - if you believe the Bible).

Here are verses for the reader’s consideration:

What does Scripture Mean About Perfection?

The problem I have with your belief Johann is that you are advocating the idea that believers can sin and still be saved.
Can God agree with your sin? Why do you think Jesus told certain believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him in Matthew 7:22-23? Jesus said for them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. Jesus said that if we don’t forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Do you believe that, Johann? I don’t see how.

 

[ScottA]

I'll print out your testimony to read tonight in bed. But how does Luke 1124-26 apply to "Jesus telling those who had not yet been born again of the Spirit to endure until that time, which had not yet come." I don't understand what you mean. "To endure until that time." ??? What does that mean, and how does it have anything to do with demon possession?

All of what Jesus spoke to his disciples that are now a big part of the gospels, occurred before the cross and before he went to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit making salvation (being born again of the Spirit of God) available for the first time in history. Since those to whom he was speaking to at the time would have to wait, he also (in addition to those things taught by parables) counseled them to endure to the end...which was His end. Therefore, he referred to himself as the End. Which is that dividing line between what Paul referred to as the need to rightly divide the word of truth...meaning between what Jesus said to those who had to wait, and what would be different for those who came after he ascended and sent the Holy Spirit.

Do you see that it would be wrong for those who do not need to wait, to endure to the end which has now already come since Jesus ascended to the Father?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have just redefined scripture.


cannot sin, because he is born of God — “because it is of God that he is born” (so the Greek order, as compared with the order of the same words in the beginning of the verse); not “because he was born of God” (the Greek is perfect tense, which is present in meaning, not aorist); it is not said, Because a man was once for all born of God he never afterwards can sin; but, Because he is born of God, the seed abiding now in Him, he cannot sin; so long as it energetically abides, sin can have no place. Compare Gen_39:9, Joseph, “How CAN I do this great wickedness and sin against God?”

The principle within me is at utter variance with it. The regenerate life is incompatible with sin, and gives the believer a hatred for sin in every shape, and an unceasing desire to resist it. “The child of God in this conflict receives indeed wounds daily, but never throws away his arms or makes peace with his deadly foe” [Luther].

The exceptional sins into which the regenerate are surprised, are owing to the new life principle being for a time suffered to lie dormant, and to the sword of the Spirit not being drawn instantly. Sin is ever active, but no longer reigns. The normal direction of the believer’s energies is against sin; the law of God after the inward man is the ruling principle of his true self though the old nature, not yet fully deadened, rebels and sins.

Contrast 1Jn_5:18 with Joh_8:34; compare Psa_18:22, Psa_18:23; Psa_32:2, Psa_32:3; Psa_119:113, Psa_119:176. The magnetic needle, the nature of which is always to point to the pole, is easily turned aside, but always reseeks the pole.
Jamieson Fausset Brown.

Tell me what you think sanctification is.
When did it happen? Is it ongoing, progressive?
Why the need for sanctification if you are already sinless?

J.

Battling sin vs. Justifying sin:
(An explanation on 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9):

The key to understanding 1 John 3:9 is realizing that this "does not commit sin" is in context to the gnostic belief who think sin does not exist or that sin is an illusion in some way (See 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:26, Jude 1:4). Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. Eternal Security Proponents (i.e. OSAS - Once Saved Always Saved), and or Non-OSAS Sin and Still Be Saved Types (Free Will Baptists) think future sin is forgiven them by having a belief alone on Jesus. So while they believe sin may exist on a physical level, they do not think sin exists for them on a spiritual level because they believe Jesus paid for their future sins (When the Bible never says future sin is forgiven us). In other words, I believe it is those who justify sin in some way who have not been born again spiritually and who have never seen or known Christ and He (the seed) does not abide in them. 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9 is talking about "willful sin" in Hebrews 10:26 in view or light of 1 John 1:8.

In other words, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 3:9 is in view of "willful sin" or "justifying sin" in some way.

1 John 3:9 should read like this:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [willfully, as if to justify it]; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin [willfully], because he is born of God."​

1 John 3:6 should read like this:

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not [willfully, seeking to justify their sin]: whosoever sinneth [as if to justify their sin] hath not seen him, neither known him."​

This would be in view or light of applying the context of the false gnostic belief that John warned the brethren about in 1 John 1:8.

Christians can battle with sin. This is why they need to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of sin as per 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1-2 (cf. with: Proverbs 28:13, Psalms 51, Luke 15:18-21, Luke 18:9-14). But Christians are told to "sin no more" by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (John 5:14, John 8:11). The apostle John said to "sin not" (1 John 2:1).

Christians are to enter the Sanctification Process and put away sin by God's power.
It's why Paul said let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). Romans 8:13 essentially says if we live after the flesh, we will die, but if we put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, we shall live. Two ways are set before us. We either seek to justify sin and die, or we seek to put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit and live (live eternally). Both God's grace (confessing sin to the Lord), and in forsaking our sin, and battling against putting it away by His power and help (and by putting the Word on the inside of us) is going to help us to overcome and live holy in this life. 1 Peter 4:1-2 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin (Note: I believe that the way they cease from sin was in the fact that they denied themselves sin, and prayed, and fasted, and suffered persecution for Christ); And this passage also says that we should live the rest of our time (here on Earth obviously) not to the lusts of the flesh, but to the will of God.

Paul says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).
So we have to in time have the victory over our sin. The time for each believer on this is between that person and God. Every man is different. Only God can know a person's heart ultimately. But this does not mean we should not warn believers to keep the faith in Jesus, and or to confess and forsake sin and to battle against sin. For Jesus said that a person is in danger of being cast bodily into hellfire if they look upon a woman in lust (Matthew 5:28-30). But obviously many men who first come to Christ do struggle greatly with this kind of sin. So God is obviously patient and long suffering towards believer in them repenting (confessing of their sin with the intent of putting that sin away for good) (2 Peter 3:9). Believers must seek to overcome grievous sin in this life and not think that they do not need to worry about sin in this life.

In other words, God's grace is there for a person if they are truly seeking to battle and fight and put away sin. This does not mean that believers cannot stumble into doing a sin on rare occasion. Let me give you an example:

The drunk who has no intention of giving up his sin of alcoholism may join a drug program to take advantage of a family member, or temporarily quite them for a time. They are justifying their sin and have no real intention of reforming and or changing their bad behavior.

On the other hand, the drunk who joins a drug program to overcome their sin of alcoholism may stumble on rare occasion, but they pick themselves back up and they fight, and battle against their sin of alcoholism with ever fiber of their being and seek to conquer their sin.

The thing is that men have overcome the sin of alcoholism by drug programs without them asking God to help them. Imagine how much more God can do in a faithful believer's life because they have the living God residing within in them?

 

[Behold]

Behold, do you believe there will be those who were practicing willful sins of lawlessness when they died, but prophesied to be following Christ will be still saved and in heaven when He comes.

I wrote a Thread as your answer.

Its here :

Understanding... "your Liberty",

 

[Taken]

@Taken John's First Epistle indeed says: "We have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous".

Before Conversion.
Yes a Believer has an Advocate who will pray to God For them.

After Conversion.
John 16
[26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

 

[1stCenturyLady]

List of sins

As Dr. John MacArthur, points out, we are living in a generation of self lovers who consider that sin to be a virtue…

We live in a culture of self love, to put it simply, a culture that is consumed with self love, ego building, self esteem, feeling good about yourself, thinking you’re important, thinking you’re valuable, thinking you’re a hero, thinking you’ve achieved something, thinking you’re worthy of honor. We’re drowning in awards for everything imaginable and unimaginable. Parents are consumed with boosting the egos of their children with every imaginable means, as well as boosting their own sense of self value. This is the generation of self lovers.

And just by way of reminder, in 2 Timothy chapter 3 the apostle Paul classified “love of self” as a sin—in fact, a dominating sin. In one of his familiar lists of iniquities—there are numbers of them in his letters—he begins the list of iniquities in 2 Timothy chapter 3 with “lovers of self,” and then “lovers of money,” and then goes through the rest of his list. This describes deceivers, unbelievers, those outside the kingdom of God, those who do not know the truth. Self love is at the top of the list in terms of normal human attitude. Sinners are consumed with pride. They’re consumed with themselves. We have made that into the prominent, dominant virtue in our society. —Dr. John F. MacArthur, Litt.D., D.D., The Master’s Seminary and Grace Community Church

• self-righteousness
• sins of omission—
• failure to do what is good, right, and love
• failure to forgive all who have offended you
• failure to believe God-given truth provided to you
• abortion
• adultery
• anger (if excessive, protracted, or without cause)
• apostasy—abandoning the truth, turning away from God
• astrology
• abominable sins
• backbiting
• bigamy
• blasphemy
• putting a stumblingblock before the blind (Leviticus 19:14)
• coveting
• cursing a parent (Exodus 21:17)cursing God (Leviticus 24:10-16)
• cursing the deaf (Leviticus 19:14)
• cursing the ruler of your people (Exodus 22:28)
• dishonoring parents
• (Exo. 20:12; Eph. 6:2; Deut. 5:16; Matt. 15:4; Matt. 19:19; Mark 7:10; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20)
• divination
• drunkenness
• enchantments
• envy
• evil-speakingevil thoughts—dwelling on them and feeding them
• fornication
• gluttony
• greed
• hatred
• heathen
• heresy
• homosexuality
• hypocrisy
• idolatry
• marriage to idolators
• jealousy
• kidnapping (Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 27:16)
• lasciviousness
• not loving God
• lustlying
• magic
• murder
• murmuring
• necromancy
• pornography
• pride (opposite of humility)
• rioting (revelling)
• robbery
• sedition
• slander
• soothsaying
• sorcery
• stealing
• striking a parent (Exodus 21:15)
• taking the name of the LORD God in vain
• theft
• touching the holy Ark of the Covenant
• gluttony
• uncleanness
• worry
• witchcraft

DIVINE COMMANDS UNIQUE TO THE HEBREWS—There were various specific commands and ceremonial laws given uniquely to the Hebrews, as a set apart people in Old Testament times. It was a sin for a Hebrew to break these laws.

For example, they were prohibited from using as food certain animal substances (unclean). The chief design of these regulations seems to have been to establish a system of regimen which would distinguish the Hebrews from all other nations.

Regarding the design and the abolition of these regulations, the reader will find all the details in Leviticus 20:24-26; Acts 10:9-16; 11:1-10; Hebrews 9:9-14. The laws about uncleanness were removed during New Testament times. Jesus Christ explained what truly defiles a person in Mark 7:18-23:

“…whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled? …What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within…come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. …” (ESV)

You quoted John MacArthur here.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He has written some good material.

Not what I've read, and watched.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

All of what Jesus spoke to his disciples that are now a big part of the gospels, occurred before the cross and before he went to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit making salvation (being born again of the Spirit of God) available for the first time in history. Since those to whom he was speaking to at the time would have to wait, he also (in addition to those things taught by parables) counseled them to endure to the end...which was His end. Therefore, he referred to himself as the End. Which is that dividing line between what Paul referred to as the need to rightly divide the word of truth...meaning between what Jesus said to those who had to wait, and what would be different for those who came after he ascended and sent the Holy Spirit.

Do you see that it would be wrong for those who do not need to wait, to endure to the end which has now already come since Jesus ascended to the Father?

The verses that use "endure to the end" are about the second coming, not the end of his first coming. Matthew 24. Do you remember if someone taught you that? If so who?

 

[ScottA]

The verses that use "endure to the end" are about the second coming, not the end of his first coming. Matthew 24. Do you remember if someone taught you that? If so who?

It was God who taught me. Jesus is the apex of all prophecy, the Beginning and the End. It's that simple.

But, consider who Jesus said "endure to the end" to. It was to the house of Israel for which he came. After that last "evil generation", then began the times of the gentiles. Different sheep fold, different terms...which need to be rightly divided, just as Paul said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

He has written some good material.

MacArthur pretends to teach holy living as a requirement for salvation, but he really does not believe that way according to the Bible. The Lordship Salvation doctrine he popularized is a Trojan horse.

How so?

Well, Kenneth Nally committed suicide as per his influence of John MacArthur's ministry and MacArthur said that he was still saved.

Here is a quote from an article:

"At the trial, MacArthur, 45, is seeking to clarify his church’s teaching on suicide. “It’s not only a sin, it’s illegal,” he says. “But we teach that even if a believer takes his own life, the Lord will still receive him into His presence.”​

Article Source:
Fundamentalist Clergymen Face Charges of 'Malpractice' When a Parishioner Turns to Suicide

John MacArthur says that a person can take the mark of the beast and they can still be saved afterwards. Listen to this audio clip by him here:

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/audio/macarthur-take-mark.mp3​

John MacArthur says,

".. sin does not result in spiritual death for the believer ...
(The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1927, comment on James 1:15)"​

John MacArthur confirms how one can sin and still be saved here in this video:

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It was God who taught me. Jesus is the apex of all prophecy, the Beginning and the End. It's that simple.

But, consider who Jesus said "endure to the end" to. It was to the house of Israel for which he came. After that last "evil generation", then began the times of the gentiles. Different sheep fold, different terms...which need to be rightly divided, just as Paul said.

Okay, if that is what you believe, fine. But that chapter says something entirely different to me, so we will just have to agree to disagree because I also follow the teaching of God to my spirit. What shall we discuss next? :)

 

[Heart2Soul]

You quoted John MacArthur here.

Ohh ok...well the list of sins is what I was focused on when doing my search about types of sin .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ohh ok...well the list of sins is what I was focused on when doing my search about types of sin .

Scripture says anything not of faith is sin. We don't need a list as in the Old Covenant. The New Covenant doesn't work the same as the Old Covenant worked where they had to memorize a list of sins and laws. God works through our conscience and writes laws there, and He says, 1 John 3:21 "Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God.

Philippians 3:16 also shows us as baby Christians to live up the to light you have. What the Holy Spirit has started He will finish. What was not a sin on day 2 of becoming born again, may check your conscience 10 years later, and then it is a sin to you. We obey the Spirit, not the letter. What is important is not the Law, but growing in the fruit of the Spirit. We are already dead to sins of lawlessness on day one, which is why we don't have to be under the law anymore to not sin.

 

[Johann]

Scripture reference please.

Still awaiting a reply.
J.

 

[Johann]

You quoted John MacArthur here.

John MacArthur made some good points and you neatly evaded the sin question from @Heart2Soul, but then, you are sinless, hearing the voice of God.
Tell me, is the "voice" you hear giving you any new revelation not written in scriptures?
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Second question

Exegete this portion of scripture I have posted.

Two questions
The "voice" giving you any new revelation?
Exegete 2 Cor 3:6
J.