Do Christians sin like the unbelievers?

[Johann]

@mailmandan forget his slandering and non-sensical carnal humbuggery.
Just mark him and have no fellowship with him according to scripture.
The whole world is lying under a great deception starting with Orthodox/Modern Judaism and Immams to the point that the infallible holy Writ is now under attack.
Just go Rabbi Tovia Singer and his team on an aggressive campaign to discredit everything written in scripture, so the Immams, doing the same.
And on this platform all religions can come together in so-called unison with a "Christian forum" blanket spread over this can of worms.
We are dealing with play-actors/hypocrites here, not all, but the majority my brother.
Be selective in whom you are dealing with since I am not being edified at all here, witnessing the "selling of religions"..freedom of speech.

Really if you think it is bad here, go online and check out these ongoing debates against Christianity.
J.

Listen to this...

 

[Episkopos]

Do people believe Jesus was sinless and perfect? And yet there is a huge disconnect between saying you believe that...and believing that in Him is no sin. If we abide in Him we do not sin. When we put on Christ, we put on His perfection. This is according to the grace empowerment by God. But it requires a child-like faith to believe such things.

Nominal believers will never believe that humans can do anything other then what carnal men can do? Why? Because they are carnal men themselves.

People will say..yes...but Jesus is God..and I could never do as He did and walk without sin! But Jesus was also HUMAN...and became human so that we could walk as He did. So then those who refuse to believe in the perfect walk of the disciple of Christ who abides in His Lord are frustrating the grace of God.

 

[amadeus]

Do people believe Jesus was sinless and perfect? And yet there is a huge disconnect between saying you believe that...and believing that in Him is no sin. If we abide in Him we do not sin. When we put on Christ, we put on His perfection. This is according to the grace empowerment by God. But it requires a child-like faith to believe such things.

Nominal believers will never believe that humans can do anything other then what carnal men can do? Why? Because they are carnal men themselves.

People will say..yes...but Jesus is God..and I could never do as He did and walk without sin! But Jesus was also HUMAN...and became human so that we could walk as He did. So then those who refuse to believe in the perfect walk of the disciple of Christ who abides in His Lord are frustrating the grace of God.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

 

[Johann]

Do people believe Jesus was sinless and perfect? And yet there is a huge disconnect between saying you believe that...and believing that in Him is no sin. If we abide in Him we do not sin. When we put on Christ, we put on His perfection. This is according to the grace empowerment by God. But it requires a child-like faith to believe such things.

Nominal believers will never believe that humans can do anything other then what carnal men can do? Why? Because they are carnal men themselves.

People will say..yes...but Jesus is God..and I could never do as He did and walk without sin! But Jesus was also HUMAN...and became human so that we could walk as He did. So then those who refuse to believe in the perfect walk of the disciple of Christ who abides in His Lord are frustrating the grace of God.

Rom_2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom_16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co_9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

2Co_5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.....
After the flesh (kata sarka). According to the flesh, the fleshy way of looking at men. He, of course, knows men “in the flesh (en tēi sarki), but Paul is not speaking of that. Worldly standards and distinctions of race, class, cut no figure now with Paul (Gal_3:28) as he looks at men from the standpoint of the Cross of Christ.
Even though we have known Christ after the flesh (ei kai egnōkamen kata sarka Christon). Concessive clause (ei kai, if even or also) with perfect active indicative.

Paul admits that he had once looked at Christ kata sarka, but now no longer does it.

Obviously he uses kata sarka in precisely the same sense that he did in 2Co_5:15 about men. He had before his conversion known Christ kata sarka, according to the standards of the men of his time, the Sanhedrin and other Jewish leaders.

He had led the persecution against Jesus till Jesus challenged and stopped him (Act_9:4). That event turned Paul clean round and he no longer knows Christ in the old way kata sarka. Paul may or may not have seen Jesus in the flesh before his death, but he says absolutely nothing on that point here.

Says nothing re sinless perfection...1Co_13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Nothing re sinless perfection here either..what say you?

Amadeus says greater works we shall do...what greater works?

J.

 

[Bob Estey]

Before exploring whether or not Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7).

“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14).

However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times. But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing.

However, other passages clarify the boundaries of this ocean of grace. First John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” Verse 9 says that those who have been “born of God” will not continue to live sinfully. The implication is that this is not a matter of trying harder. Rather, it is the equivalent of saying, “A fish cannot remain on land for long because its nature is to seek water.” A fish could flop onto the shore and survive for a short time. But it was not made for land and cannot continue there. When we are born again, our natures change, and we cannot continue in sin. Christ not only erases our past sin; He also transforms our hearts so that we no longer desire it (Colossians 2:13–14).

Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2). Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior.

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring him to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God.

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No.

Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT).

If everyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian, then I'd say they sin a lot. One of the worst is the sin of pride, where the "Christian" is more concerned with being popular than he is in doing the Lord's will.

 

[mailmandan]

@mailmandan forget his slandering and non-sensical carnal humbuggery.
Just mark him and have no fellowship with him according to scripture.
The whole world is lying under a great deception starting with Orthodox/Modern Judaism and Immams to the point that the infallible holy Writ is now under attack.
Just go Rabbi Tovia Singer and his team on an aggressive campaign to discredit everything written in scripture, so the Immams, doing the same.
And on this platform all religions can come together in so-called unison with a "Christian forum" blanket spread over this can of worms.
We are dealing with play-actors/hypocrites here, not all, but the majority my brother.
Be selective in whom you are dealing with since I am not being edified at all here, witnessing the "selling of religions"..freedom of speech.

Really if you think it is bad here, go online and check out these ongoing debates against Christianity.
J.

I've been a member of multiple Christian forum sites for a while now and running across trolls, agitators, spiritual narcissists, false teachers/pseudo Christians etc..sooner or later is all part of the experience. Sometimes it's best to just shake the dust off your shoes and move on.

 

[Enoch111]

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience.

Great post Johann. And this sentence puts to rest the nonsense from those who refuse to believe that the eternal security of the believer is never in doubt.

 

[BarneyFife]

Very informative OP! I'm dealing with someone right now who is promoting sinless perfection on this forum. See post #41 from the link below:

1st problem with O.S.A.S.

How much sin is okay?

 

[Brakelite]

The listing here of tenets for sinful Christianity is good, but not complete, There are others I have read elsewhere:

1. That all sin is not unrighteousness of the devil and evil. At least not, when sinful Christians do it, unlike evil unbelieving sinners.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

2. That the law of God is now dead on paper, so that doing it as written by the apostles, as that of James above, is not good, but evil.

3. That sinful Christians have no part in being saved and justified with God, except the part of now doing both good and evil, and not evil only.

They sometimes fulfill their heart's lust to sin, and sometimes refuse to do so. It's the ongoing 'struggle' of all sinners with lust for sin remaining in the heart, whether Christian or unbelieving.

4. Having no fellowship with God while sinning, is not having no salvation from God while sinning: Salvation and fellowship with God are not the same. Salvation is reconciliation to God, with or without His fellowship.

Other than these missing links, this rendering of sinful Christianity is a wonderful and amazing justification for not being justified by works, but by faith alone.

Yes, they are forever saved, and yes, they go on sinning unto the end of this life, and yes, they want to be more like Jesus as much as is humanly possible for sinners on earth, just not completely like Him:

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Which reminds me of another tenet:

5. Sinful Christians are never complete in Christ in this life, to be blameless in spirit, soul, and body. That is only in the resurrection of perfect living to come:

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The soul and spirit, yes, but certainly not the body, And those who say otherwise are proud boasters, who may never actually say they have no sin, but they certainly think and act like it, which pride they must be delivered from for the sake of all our souls:

And Cain talked with Abel his brother.

You don't have much faith in the power of God do you.

 

[Brakelite]

You don't have much faith in the power of God do you.

And yet here you seen to contradict yourself...

The true doctrine of Christ in the blood of the Lamb is to purge all lust for sin from the heart, that all sinning with the flesh may be done away, in this life today.

 

[mailmandan]

How much sin is okay?

I never said sin was okay, yet we are still not sinless 100% of the time. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10, 2:1)

 

[robert derrick]

You don't have much faith in the power of God do you.

It's your doctrine of sinful Christianity. Not mine.

 

[robert derrick]

I never said sin was okay, yet we are still not sinless 100% of the time. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10, 2:1)

So you say; however, 100% of the time matters nothing to God, but only now:

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

But he that is committing sin now is certainly not born of God, because he is of the devil.

If you're sinning now, you are of the devil now, not of God, and so your doctrine of 100% yesterday or tomorrow is nothing.

And if anyone thinks they are of God and not of the devil, when they are sinning against God, then they're simply delusional and mocking God and His word.

 

[robert derrick]

How much sin is okay?

The only sin that is not ok, is the one committing the sin now.

Yesterday is gone, and tomorrow is not promised.

The sin anyone is sinning now, is the one of the devil, that is not 'ok' with God, nor is forgiven by Jesus Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

So you say; however, 100% of the time matters nothing to God, but only now:

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

But he that is committing sin now is certainly not born of God, because he is of the devil.

If you're sinning now, you are of the devil now, not of God, and so your doctrine of 100% yesterday or tomorrow is nothing.

And if anyone thinks they are of God and not of the devil, when they are sinning against God, then they're simply delusional and mocking God and His word.

Do you claim to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, abdolute perfect life 100% of the time? Exactly ss Jesus lived?

 

[robert derrick]

Do you claim to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, abdolute perfect life 100% of the time? Exactly ss Jesus lived?

100% theology is meaningless, since yesterday is gone, and tomorrow may not come to pass: Now and today is all that matters.

The point is simple, and so is the question: when you are sinning, are you of the devil, or born of God?

 

[mailmandan]

100% theology is meaningless, since yesterday is gone, and tomorrow may not come to pass: Now and today is all that matters.

The point is simple, and so is the question: when you are sinning, are you of the devil, or born of God?

A simple YES or NO answer to my question will do.

 

[robert derrick]

A simple YES or NO answer to my question will do.

I am right now. I am not sinning right now.

When you are sinning, are you of God or the devil?

It's a simple question.

 

[mailmandan]

I am right now. I am not sinning right now.

When you are sinning, are you of God or the devil?

It's a simple question.

That's still not a YES or NO answer to my question. Either we are children of God or children of the devil. It's not a revolving door.

 

[robert derrick]

That's still not a YES or NO answer to my question. Either we are children of God or children of the devil. It's not a revolving door.

Yes it is. You however are no longer worth the time.

When you are sinning, you are of the devil only. It's not a double door.

It's the same for everyone sinning.