What is Preterism? - Video - 6 Hours.

[ScottA]

Amen not some secret invisible return. Jesus in Matthew 24 declared every eye will see Him return.

This too is just a misunderstanding.

Every eye will indeed see Him--but not in the world, as the kingdom of God comes without observation. But rather "all shall rise" where all shall see Him, and all who are His shall be with Him, and those who are not shall also see but go to everlasting contempt.

 

[ScottA]

Maybe more like a poison we all drink?

Our thoughts are prone to be lower.

 

[ChristisGod]

@MatthewG

I don't know of or about those Preachers/Teachers, as my only Teacher is God. But you have described the Christian dilemma quite well.

I too have written books but can explain it in one paragraph:

God is timeless and eternal, as is every event that is of him. While the events of this world (which is not His kingdom, but rather His creation) are not on a timeline per say, but on a storyline of all that is written. The world is simply the place and means by which God reveals it all to sinful men, as Paul said, "each in his own order." That is why it is written that Jesus "was slain before the foundation of the world" and "now" is the time of salvation."
​

Time is an illusion, and men are fools looking always to their own understanding.

Thanks I like your quote !

And the most astounding thing of all is that God permanently intersected time at the Incarnation when God took upon Himself humanity forever as our Mediator, Priest, King and Savior. Our calendar reflect this truth with BC and AD. Amen. The most Glorious event in human history the Incarnation. John 1:1; John 1:14.

 

[ChristisGod]

This too is just a misunderstanding.

Actually eye will indeed see Him--bu not in the world, as the kingdom of God comes without observation. But rather "all shall rise" where all shall see Him, and all who are His be with Him.

So who do you interpret Titus 2:13 ?

 

[ChristisGod]

And these passages regarding His Coming ( parousia )


Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:27
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:39
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 2:19
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13
13 To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

James 5:7
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.

James 5:8
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28-29
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks I like your quote !

And the most astounding thing of all is that God permanently intersected time at the Incarnation when God took upon Himself humanity forever as our Mediator, Priest, King and Savior. Our calendar reflect this truth with BC and AD. Amen. The most Glorious event in human history the Incarnation. John 1:1; John 1:14.

Yes, Jesus called "his own order" his time, or day, or hour. But to us God has presented all that is written in chapters.

But we are not to take up residence in the book of times, but rather with and in God.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, Jesus called "his own order" his time, or day, or hours. But to us God has presented all that is written in chapters.

But we are not to take up residence in the book of times, but rather with and in God.

Scott are you a trinitarian ?

 

[ScottA]

So who do you interpret Titus 2:13 ?

Everything that is written is translated from the timelessness of God into times for the revealing. Which just makes it all terms of language...which we know is even purposely confused by God. Paul was simply speaking in the context of every person's life.

This too is a dilemma. Every word that is written is translated, and therefore "all truth" only comes when it is translated back to God's terms, which he has limited to the Spirit. Thus, those sent by God can explain, but only God can enlighten.

 

[ChristisGod]

Everything that is written is translated from the timelessness of God into times for the revealing. Which just makes it all terms of language...which we know is even purposely confused by God. Paul was simply speaking in the context of every person's life.

This too is a dilemma. Every word that is written is translated, and therefore "all truth" only comes when it is translated back to God's terms, which he has limited to the Spirit. Thus, those sent by God can explain, but only God can enlighten.

And how did that address Titus 2:13 ?

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG do you know who John of Gischala was? Not certain I have that spelled correctly.

Looked him up, he was a leader of the first jewish revolt against the Romans.

Do have a Josephus Complete Works Book, I wonder if he is mentioned here as Josephus wrote about this revolt as well.

 

[ScottA]

Scott are you a trinitarian ?

I consider "God is One God", "Father, Son", and even "Father, Son, and Spirit" as a good start--not as separate persons, but because God is known [biblically] by many Names. Mind has only imagined. ;)

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for your comment @ScottA, that was the premise of the book that Glenn Hill wrote, who has determined through scripture analysis that Jesus did in fact return in 70 Ad.

That is cool you write too.

 

[Waiting on him]

Do have a Josephus Complete Works Book, I wonder if he is mentioned here as Josephus wrote about this revolt as well.

I do not, some day I hope to have the time to study all of the recording of this historical event.

I guess the spiritual gifted teachers will not need to see any of this given they already have all knowledge, given of their god of course.

 

[GEN2REV]

You’ll have to find someone else to argue your self proclaimed spiritual gift with. I personally don’t need a man to lord over me.

Oh, Lord.

This is the world we live in now.

Any discussion is a personal beat-down, right?

 

[MatthewG]

People believe what they want.

I have learned that over the course of life in general.

Great, you are still waiting for Jesus Christ to show up. That is fine. Believe that.

I do not understand how we are to believe He is gonna show up 2000 years later, when Revelation Jesus explicitly says he is coming quickly.

Whatever you believe is up to you. It doesn't make people better than no one, but people will cut throats of other people because they do not like it or whatever.

Stand on the solid foundation, search the scriptures, and disprove it or accept it as true.

All I do know is I will die then be translated with my given judgement by God over to the heavenly Realm, in hope to Go into the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Doesn't matter if you agree with me or not.

You have your faith before God, and work out your salvation for yourself - that is for us to believe in the Son of God, and to love others. 1 John 3:23

God bless.

 

[Waiting on him]

Oh, Lord.

This is the world we live in now.

Any discussion is a personal beat-down, right?

Wrong.

 

[MatthewG]

I do not, some day I hope to have the time to study all of the recording of this historical event.

I guess the spiritual gifted teachers will not need to see any of this given they already have all knowledge, given of their god of course.

This is the one I bought
Josephus : Complete Works by William Whiston (1998, Hardcover) 9780785214274 | eBay

 

[GEN2REV]

I try to be as respectful as I can towards all people on this forum site, and see as no one here as stupid.

I don't think anybody here has ever called you stupid. You seem to do a lot of reading and studying books, videos and articles, etc.

But do you ever give the Bible the same amount of time and consideration?

Have you ever read/heard of this passage?

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: ... Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth."
2 Timothy 3:5
2 Timothy 3:7

You deny God's power when you deny that His Word (Jesus Christ) is God and when you change His Word to say things it doesn't say like that 'Jesus has already returned.'

When you admit that you get all these ideas from other men, and not from the Bible, it speaks volumes about your credibility in teaching these concepts and your sincerity in seeking God and His Word.

Not an insult. This is an observation, a Christian pointing out the activities of another Christian that are not spiritually healthy and are not working for them.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a book I would like to also that help in understanding biblical context, from a person named Glenn Hill.


https://www.amazon.com/Christianitys-Great-Dilemma-Jesus-Coming/dp/1453873740

It is very easy to read using biblical scripture and is useful to consider, refute, or accept. I bought it myself.

Have you ever wondered what is delaying the return of Jesus-why He does not appear now to rapture His church and destroy this wicked world? Do you ever ponder about how very long you have been promised that "Jesus is coming soon," but He has not? If so, then Christianity's Great Dilemma may be the most unusual, interesting, and perhaps enlightening Second Coming prophecy book you will ever read! For most of my fifty of years preaching I taught that Jesus' Second Coming was near, so near that I expected to live to see the Advent. The ministers I listened to as a boy had the same message and expectation, but they died without seeing Jesus. Most ministers of the past hundred years have proclaimed that "Jesus is coming soon," but He has not returned. Do you ever wonder why? Modern-day prophets have kept us in great anticipation as they predicted the imminent coming of the antichrist, along with the great tribulation, rapture, end of the world, end of time, and Armageddon. Do you ever consider that decades pass, and one century ends and another begins, yet NONE of these prophecies come to pass? Recall Y2K. As the year 2000 approached, preachers made many predictions; and NOTHING happened! How embarrassing to Christianity! Could something be wrong with our message? In my book you will find the answers to these troubling questions! The answers are not some imaginary or hypothetical solutions, or some invisible and intangible possibilities. The answers are firmly and solidly based on the Scriptures! How did I miss them for most of my life? Christianity's Great Dilemma is a MUST-READ BOOK for every studious, thoughtful, and sincere Christian! I humbly invite you to read it. I promise that you will find it honest, unique, interesting, and even challenging. And your walk with Jesus will never be the same!

you dont look anywhere near fifty :)

 

[GEN2REV]

I do not understand how we are to believe He is gonna show up 2000 years later, when Revelation Jesus explicitly says he is coming quickly.

So you've founded an entire doctrine that deviates entirely from Scripture based on the modern translated words "coming quickly"?

It's not too far fetched to conclude that the better translation of that statement is that Jesus is coming "suddenly" ... whenever He does come.

That's why it is so important to consider ALL of Scripture when making these judgments. If you only listen to "other peoples'" ideas about the Bible, you are looking at the Bible through a microscope instead of considering all that it has to say with your own two eyes.