Man's Preterism, An Abomination

[rwb]

I already explained this. He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality.

Yes, but before that the Spirit in Christ returned to the Father in heaven. Which is where we, who have been born again are now living and reigning SPIRITUALLY with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years. And when we die our spirit as living soul will leave our natural body of death and like the spirit of Christ also return to God. That's why Christ is the firstfruits of the spirit of those faithful saints who died before His coming now also the firstfruits of SPIRITUAL life as living souls in heaven.

Your bogged down in mortal flesh, because you don't believe Christ when He tells us the life we receive in Him is ETERNAL! You believe saints won't have eternal life until we are bodily resurrected. Apparently, you don't understand the difference between that part of faithful man (spirit) possessing eternal life, and the flesh of faithful man that shall be immortal. Now in this life we HAVE (not shall have but HAVE) ETERNAL SPIRITUAL LIFE through the Spirit of Christ in us, then when the spiritual body a living soul in heaven returns with Christ when the last trumpet sounds, faithful man shall be bodily raised immortal through the eternal spirit that returns with Christ.

Yes, it is! Very clearly! Your lack of discernment regarding this topic matches your level of lack of discernment of salvation and of Satan his angels (demons/devils).

You have ZERO spiritual discernment because you don't believe man possesses ETERNAL LIFE! Why would anyone pay one iota of attention to anything you think you know coming from spiritual understanding???

 

[ScottA]

Y

You speak so much nonsense. Right now we have mortal flesh. That does not mean our immortal bodies can't be made of flesh. But it will be immortal flesh and not like the body we have now. After Jesus was resurrected, He still had flesh. Yet, He was able to appear in a locked home (seemingly) out of nowhere. What do you have against flesh, anyway? Yes, we have a spirit, also, but Paul said our bodies will be changed and you say they will be dissolved. I side with Paul on this.

It was Peter who said the elements of the flesh will be dissolved (I only repeated it), which is no contradiction to what Paul said--you just don't understand.

You're confused.

The fact is Jesus' rising from the dead was not the resurrection. It's no wonder you think what Peter said dosen't jive with what Paul said.

 

[ScottA]

resurrections unto bodily immortality.

And there is your error.

Somehow you missed the part saying "you do not sow that body that shall be" that we are "sown a natural body (flesh), it is raised a [spiritual] body." ...And what did Jesus say about "everyone born of the spirit?" --That they are not visible like the natural body of flesh. So, your idea about Jesus having some hybrid flesh body after He rose from the dead--is simply not true.

Back to the drawing board--you may have to start over with "the renewing of your mind." Paul said that too (I was just repeating it).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You don't even understand this.

Biblically speaking, after I say what is given to me from God--after that it's on YOU.

LOL. So, should we all just tell each other what God gives us and never reference scripture then? Is that what you think it should be like on this forum?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And there is your error.

Somehow you missed the part saying "you do not sow that body that shall be" that we are "sown a natural body (flesh), it is raised a [spiritual] body."

Where does Paul say anything about the spiritual body not having flesh? Nowhere. Once again you just make something up without actually backing it up with scripture. What he does say is this...

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The natural body we have now is sown in corruption, dishonor and weakness. It will be raised as a spiritual body in incorruption, glory and power. Nothing there at all about the spiritual body not being flesh. Later, Paul also indicates that the spiritual body that we will have will be immortal. Again, nothing about not being flesh. No reason to think we won't have immortal flesh. What we have now is corruptible, dishonorable, weak and mortal. The body we will have when our bodies are all changed at the last trumpet will be incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal.

...And what did Jesus say about "everyone born of the spirit?" --That they are not visible like the natural body of flesh.

What?! Are you born of the Spirit? I know that I am and I'm pretty sure that I'm visible.

So, your idea about Jesus having some hybrid flesh body after He rose from the dead--is simply not true.

Oh, really? You continually prove that you do not read scripture carefully.

This was after His resurrection...

John 20:24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” 26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Back to the drawing board--you may have to start over with "the renewing of your mind." Paul said that too (I was just repeating it).

You apparently haven't even been to the drawing board in the first place. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It was Peter who said the elements of the flesh will be dissolved (I only repeated it), which is no contradiction to what Paul said--you just don't understand.

No, he said that the heavens and the elements will be dissolved and the earth will be burned up. He said nothing about the elements of the flesh being dissolved. You continue to just make things up.

You're confused.

It's not possible for anyone to be more confused than you are. I mean that sincerely. You are 100% confused.

The fact is Jesus' rising from the dead was not the resurrection. It's no wonder you think what Peter said dosen't jive with what Paul said.

And this proves how confused you are. Jesus rising from the dead was not the resurrection? You can't be taken seriously. At all. Not even a tiny bit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ came to Stephen by His Spirit sent to him. Stephen being eternally spiritually alive when being stoned to death never doubted calling upon God through the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit. Stephen knew through the Spirit of Christ in him that death would take his mortal body but could not take away his ETERNAL SPIRITUAL life. Which is why he had no doubt that his spirit would be with the Lord in heaven as soon as his body breathed its last.

Acts 6:5 (KJV) And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

This shows how you twist scripture to fit your beliefs. Nowhere does this say anything about Jesus coming to Stephen at that time. Stephen saw Jesus in heaven and asked Him to receive His spirit there. And Stephen's soul and spirit did go to heaven to be with Jesus when he died.

 

[ScottA]

LOL. So, should we all just tell each other what God gives us and never reference scripture then? Is that what you think it should be like on this forum?

What I said was from scripture. If you actually knew the scriptures, you would know that and not speak against them.

 

[ScottA]

Where does Paul say anything about the spiritual body not having flesh? Nowhere.

I wasn't quoting Paul only, I was quoting Jesus.

But again you pit them against each other showing your inability to reconcile all scripture.

Do you not realize as you continue to reveal yourself, it is the stone of your own evil heart being overturned?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What I said was from scripture. If you actually knew the scriptures, you would know that and not speak against them.

You said that Jesus came to Stephen personally when he died. if that is from scripture, then tell me in which scripture you are seeing that. I don't think I'm asking too much here. Like many here, you are very evasive whenever someone asks you to back up your claims with scripture. It's very telling.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I wasn't quoting Paul only, I was quoting Jesus.

Where does Jesus claim that the spiritual body has no flesh? It will have no mortal flesh, of course, but where does He say it has no flesh at all?

But again you show your inability to reconcile all scripture.

You repeatedly show your inability to actually use scripture to back up your many baseless claims.

Do you not realize as you continue to reveal yourself, it is the stone of your own evil heart being overturned?

What I realized long ago is that you're not someone that I can take seriously and you continue to prove that over and over again. You say that I have an evil heart without knowing me at all. You may think that you are God, but let me assure you that you are not. Let God be the judge of people's hearts. That's not your job. You're terrible at it, anyway.

 

[rwb]

This shows how you twist scripture to fit your beliefs. Nowhere does this say anything about Jesus coming to Stephen at that time. Stephen saw Jesus in heaven and asked Him to receive His spirit there. And Stephen's soul and spirit did go to heaven to be with Jesus when he died.

Christ came to Stephen when He was born again through the Spirit sent from Christ that was in him. Because the life Stephen received when he was born again of the Spirit of Christ is ETERNAL, death of his body could not take away the ETERNAL life he possessed through the spirit. Therefore, indeed Stephen as spiritual body a living soul ascended to heaven after he physically died where he is with the Lord and will be forever.

 

[ScottA]

No, he said that the heavens and the elements will be dissolved and the earth will be burned up. He said nothing about the elements of the flesh being dissolved. You continue to just make things up.

You're doing it again--pitting one word from God against another.

I was not only quoting Peter, but also Moses and Solomon. But you did not precieve it because His word is not in you. For which you do not answer to me, but to Him.

 

[ScottA]

It's not possible for anyone to be more confused than you are. I mean that sincerely. You are 100% confused.

It is obvious you "believe" that.

 

[ScottA]

And this proves how confused you are. Jesus rising from the dead was not the resurrection? You can't be taken seriously. At all. Not even a tiny bit.

With your repeating it, you confirm your error.

 

[rwb]

Christ came to Stephen by His Spirit sent to him. Stephen being eternally spiritually alive when being stoned to death never doubted calling upon God through the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit. Stephen knew through the Spirit of Christ in him that death would take his mortal body but could not take away his ETERNAL SPIRITUAL life. Which is why he had no doubt that his spirit would be with the Lord in heaven as soon as his body breathed its last.

Acts 6:5 (KJV) And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

This shows how you twist scripture to fit your beliefs.

Since you have a habit of being rude in these forums, I wish to know how what I've said above was twisted to fit my beliefs. You seem always to resort to being rude when you cannot biblically refute truth formed from the Word of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ came to Stephen when He was born again through the Spirit sent from Christ that was in him.

Yes, I agree. But, that isn't what was being claimed. You often have a lot of trouble understanding what is actually being discussed. What ScottA claims is that Jesus came to Stephen upon his death. Is that what you believe? I believe that Stephen's soul and spirit went to be with the Lord Jesus in heaven immediately upon his death.

 

[ScottA]

You said that Jesus came to Stephen personally when he died. if that is from scripture, then tell me in which scripture you are seeing that. I don't think I'm asking too much here. Like many here, you are very evasive whenever someone asks you to back up your claims with scripture. It's very telling.

You tell me: Where was Stephen and where was Jesus when he was martyred, in heaven or on the earth (Acts 7:55)? And since it is written that Jesus went to be with the Father, and Stephen's feet did not leave the ground, how did he see Jesus if Jesus did not "return" to him--for him--personally?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ came to Stephen by His Spirit sent to him. Stephen being eternally spiritually alive when being stoned to death never doubted calling upon God through the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit. Stephen knew through the Spirit of Christ in him that death would take his mortal body but could not take away his ETERNAL SPIRITUAL life. Which is why he had no doubt that his spirit would be with the Lord in heaven as soon as his body breathed its last.

Acts 6:5 (KJV) And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.


Since you have a habit of being rude in these forums, I wish to know how what I've said above was twisted to fit my beliefs. You seem always to resort to being rude when you cannot biblically refute truth formed from the Word of God.

You think that me rebuking you for foolish beliefs is being rude. I talk to you the way I do because you should know better than to believe some of the things you do. I expect better from you. You are spot on in regards to some things, so it just baffles me and, honestly, annoys me, when you are so far off base on other things. In relation to this particular topic, what was being claimed is that Jesus came to Stephen when he died. By supporting ScottA, it came across that you agreed with him about that. So, do you agree with him about that or not? Jesus coming to dwell in a person upon being born of the Spirit is not what was being discussed. Of course I agree with that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You tell me: Where was Stephen and where was Jesus when he was martyred, in heaven or on the earth (Acts 7:55)? And since it is written that Jesus went to be with the Father, and Stephen's feet did not leave the ground, how did he see Jesus if Jesus did not "return" to him--for him--personally?

It very specifically says He saw Jesus in heaven, not on the earth.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Nowhere does this say that Jesus came down to Stephen on earth as you are trying to claim. No, Stephen's spirit went up to be with Christ in heaven. Do you deny that a believer's soul and spirit go to be with the Lord in heaven when they physically die?