The Sabbath Day

[Bible Highlighter]

By the way, I don't think you're going to be able to sell this term without defining "by."

The Two Aspects of Salvation Believers Need to be Primarily Concerned With:

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life & A Belief of the Truth.
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
This is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is call of the gospel; Note: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is not the gospel. It is simply the call of the gospel; For the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,..”​

Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. It is a two part intertwined secondary aspect of salvation (Which joins the cord of Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation in being saved by God’s grace. Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. One does not exist without the other (Note: The following is mentioned in order according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and it is not stating that one cannot proceed the other or vise versa).

(a). Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. Believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

(b) A Belief of the Truth is also another secondary synergistic intertwined aspect of salvation for the believer (in addition to Sanctification of the Holy Spirit). We need to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB). We need to hold to certain correct doctrines or teachings in God’s Word. One example: It is implied that denying bodily resurrection means one’s faith is overthrown (See: 2 Timothy 2:17-18). So we need to study God’s Word (the Holy Bible) and hold to it’s truths. Now, does that mean one is not saved if they don’t know of the bodily resurrection? I don’t believe so. I believe that is what God’s grace is for. But once a key core doctrine of God’s Word is revealed to a believer, they cannot reject it. So a belief of the truth is similar to Sanctification. A Christian must grow in the knowledge of God’s Word and accept it’s beautiful fundamental truths. Does holding to all truths in the Bible save? Well, I don’t think a belief in the Nephilim saves (although it is a truth taught in His Word). But I believe there are other foundational truths we must eventually learn and accept as Christians. The Spirit will guide a believer into all truth within God’s Word.​

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sanctification is not about a process of ultimately being saved by works

It is Written : "CHRIST OUR SANCTIFICATION"
Let us, may be call it, "IN HIM WHO IS our Sanctification", that HE, ultimately, might be – will be, "CHRIST OUR SANCTIFICATION" at the "Resurrection of Life" – in us.
PS:
Note it shall be God's Work on "The Last Day", thus, HIS finishing continuation of 'ALL THE WORKS OF GOD HE HAD MADE" and Jesus shall be finally "THE ALL in all fulfilling FULLNESS OF GOD GIVEN TO THE CHURCH AS HEAD" -- again, at the Last Trump, at the rising of all the dead on the Last and Day of His Coming Again on the clouds of heaven.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Two Aspects of Salvation Believers Need to be Primarily Concerned With:

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life & A Belief of the Truth.
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
This is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is call of the gospel; Note: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is not the gospel. It is simply the call of the gospel; For the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,..”​

Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. It is a two part intertwined secondary aspect of salvation (Which joins the cord of Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation in being saved by God’s grace. Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. One does not exist without the other (Note: The following is mentioned in order according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and it is not stating that one cannot proceed the other or vise versa).

(a). Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. Believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

(b) A Belief of the Truth is also another secondary synergistic intertwined aspect of salvation for the believer (in addition to Sanctification of the Holy Spirit). We need to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB). We need to hold to certain correct doctrines or teachings in God’s Word. One example: It is implied that denying bodily resurrection means one’s faith is overthrown (See: 2 Timothy 2:17-18). So we need to study God’s Word (the Holy Bible) and hold to it’s truths. Now, does that mean one is not saved if they don’t know of the bodily resurrection? I don’t believe so. I believe that is what God’s grace is for. But once a key core doctrine of God’s Word is revealed to a believer, they cannot reject it. So a belief of the truth is similar to Sanctification. A Christian must grow in the knowledge of God’s Word and accept it’s beautiful fundamental truths. Does holding to all truths in the Bible save? Well, I don’t think a belief in the Nephilim saves (although it is a truth taught in His Word). But I believe there are other foundational truths we must eventually learn and accept as Christians. The Spirit will guide a believer into all truth within God’s Word.​

I am a non-denominational born again Christian. √

I am Sabbath’s Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith


I believe in the Trinity. √

I believe in God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit


I believe in the Bible Alone (King James Version) as my authority for all matters of faith and practice. √

We believe the closed Canon of Holy Scripture


I believe that we are under the commands given to us in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. X

We believe that we are under God's eternal Commandments given to us in the New Testament and in the Old Testament


So we don’t have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etcetera. X

So we believe the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD our God and Saviour, who was not circumcised, but was Conceived of, Baptised in, and Raised by the Spirit of Holiness in the flesh, This Same Jesus, yesterday, today and forever the same


We are to follow the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers (in the pages of the New Testament). X

We are to obey the commands given by God in Christ, Jesus, God the Son, the Word that in the beginning was, who was God, who was with God, who in the flesh became one of us as of all men in Old Testament times and New Testament times


I believe we are to love all others and speak in love, despite our correction of another’s false beliefs. X

We are to love all others and speak in love, correcting beliefs that are false, as false.


I believe Christians are saved by two aspects of salvation. The 1st aspect of salvation is being saved by God’s grace without works (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Romans 10:13, John 1:12, Ephesians 2:8-9). The 2nd aspect of salvation is the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit (to live a holy life), and a belief of the truth (i.e. a continual study and belief in the doctrines in the Holy Bible) (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14) (Also see: Romans 8:13, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 12:14, James 2:24, John 5:24). X

We believe sinners are saved without works of righteousness while we were enemies of God and strangers to the Eternal Covenant of God’s Grace, by grace alone.
We believe there is nothing to add to the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Power of God to save to the utmost, and beyond the beyond. Christ is our justification; Christ is our righteousness; Christ is our holiness, Christ is our sanctification; Christ is our suffering, Christ is our perseverance, Christ our Life is Christ our resurrection and glorification at His Appearance in the Last and Great Day of the LORD. CHRIST IS OUR VICTOR – TO HIM BELONGS OUR VICTORY

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Not at all Jim, like I said Christians are not under the Sabbath Law, but there many of the laws in the Law covenant that still govern Christians. You still have to worship and serve Jehovah exclusively Mat 4:10, 22:37 and love your neighbor as yourself v 39. etc

Exactly! : <like I said>. I close my case. Thank you. <like I said> as over against as "GOD SPAKE : THUS : CONCERNING THE DAY THE SEVENTH DAY". What a gem of purest pride

 

[Robert Gwin]

This is based on
KJV Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I agree with this statement. The law leads to Christ. Now compare carefully that to
KJV Romans 10:4
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Does Romans 10:4 state that the law has ended, or that the law lead to Christ as in the first quote.

And what was the purpose of leading us to Christ? Righteousness. Christ is the goal of the law, the end purpose, the focal point of the law.... Christ our righteousness. All off which does nothing to the law except magnify the law, and make it honorable, which was God's purpose in sending His Son to die that we may be justified.

Christ was the end of the law Brake, we are under a new covenant now.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

we are under a new covenant now.

NO! We now are under THE New Covenant the one and only and eternal, New Covenant of God's Grace through Jesus Christ, THE SAME Covenant every and all saints in the past ARE SAVED UNDER AND BY AS NOW AT PRESENT AS FROM NOW IN THE FUTURE.

O I am getting so tired, Lord? Please come Lord Jesus, come quickly

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

ALL THE HUMBUG ARGUED ONLY TO WORSHIP SUNDAYS - God have mercy

 

[Brakelite]

Christ was the end of the law Brake, we are under a new covenant now.

5056 ‭τέλος‭ telos ‭tel’-os‭
‭
‭‭from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); n n; TDNT- 8:49,1161; ‭ ‭{See TDNT 785}‭
‭
‭‭AV-end 35, custom 3, uttermost 1, finally 1, ending 1, by (one’s) continual +‭ 1519‭ 1; 42‭
‭
‭‭1) end‭
‭‭ 1a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)‭
‭‭ 1b) the end‭
‭‭ 1b1) the last in any succession or series‭
‭‭ 1b2) eternal‭
‭‭ 1c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue‭
‭‭ 1d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose‭
‭‭2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)‭
‭
I guess you can choose whatever you like as the meaning to the word 'end'. So the law has ended. God no longer has any standard of morality by which to judge mankind. Mankind now has no standard to which he can look to in order to aspire to. The government of God no longer has a law by which to rule the Kingdom. And because there is no law, therefore there can be no sin. And because love is the fulfilling of the law, and the foundation upon which the law operated, I guess that means love had no means by which it can be defined and expressed other than through emotion and sex.
But it's just coincidence I guess that the world that knows not God, and the only vehicle through which God had chosen to teach the world from His word, the church, teaches that same world, confusion, hypocrisy, unbelief, a God who relishes torture for ever and does away with any standard of righteousness for the church, but condemns the unbeliever for transgressing that standard. Little wonder the final confederation of apostate churches is called Babylon... Confusion. Most here are teaching her doctrines.

 

[mailmandan]

And I reject your statement here because it simply is not true.

It's absolutely true that you teach "type 2 works salvation" and not salvation through faith in Christ alone.

No offense, but I believe you simply are blindly following what popular Candy Land Christianity teaches that justifies sin, darkness, and evil because you hold to the false interpretation on 1 John 1:8 that says: “we must sin daily, weekly, or monthly always in thought and deed the rest of our lives.”

It's not about justifying sin, darkness, or evil in candy land and it's also not about living in a self righteous fantasy land either. 1 John 1:8 clearly says - "If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." John makes it clear that we are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, (hence, 1 John 1:9) which also does not mean that we are constantly sinning 24/7 either. It's not about one extreme or the other.

However, God cannot agree with this line of thinking because God is holy, and good.

1 John 1:8 is God's word and this verse is in the 'present tense.' You are not agreeing with God here.

You simply cannot see it or you have buried your moral compass deep in the ground somewhere, and you need to dig for it and find it again (So as to be able to see what I am talking about).

You come across as very judgmental and self righteous, but you simply cannot see it. I am reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector.

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others. (NKJV)
Luke 18:9 - To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: (NIV)

God is not only good just because the Bible says so. We know God is good by what He does, too. In other words, God’s Word reflecting the way you live reflects back upon God.

We are to honor and serve God.

And here you have fallen into the false accusations trap. I don’t believe in Works Salvation (implying that it is by Works Salvation alone) is what saves us anymore than there is an actual tooth fairy that exists.

When did I accuse you of teaching we are saved by works alone? Of course you teach it's faith AND works, yet even if it's only works (in part) it's still works salvation and not salvation through faith in Christ alone.

I believe it is both by God’s grace through a belief in the Savior, (Which includes believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and by the Sanctification Process (that follows which includes the works of God done through the believer) (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

There it is again! - "type 2 works salvation." The sanctification process for you is ultimately about maintaining your salvation by works (you sugar coat it by calling it the works of God) and guess who gets the credit for that? Guess who is left boasting? YOU! (Ephesians 2:8,9)

For you: No works are really necessary to save, and yet you contradict yourself and say that works will be evident of a true saving faith (Which shows works are a part of the salvation equation).

No contradiction at all. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of true saving faith, (James 2:14-24) but works are not the very essence of true saving faith (Hebrews 11:1; Ephesians 2:8,9) and works are also not the basis or means by which we obtain or maintain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; 1 Peter 1:9) That does not make works part of the salvation equation. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

Yet, while works is a part our Sanctification that saves,

There it is again! - "type 2 works salvation." So how many works does it take to "help" Jesus save you through the sanctification process? Are you trusting 50% in faith and 50% works to save you? What about 90% in faith and 10% in works? How many works does it take? My faith is trusting 100% in Jesus Christ for salvation and 0% in works.

we know doing good works alone is not enough in Matthew 7:22-23 because certain believers who did good works in Christ’s name were told to depart from Him because they ALSO worked iniquity (sin).

These many people in Matthew 7:22 who trusted in their works for salvation and not in Christ alone were not genuine believers. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. (Matthew 7:23) Works-salvationists cannot seem to grasp this. It's either Lord, Lord, didn't 'WE' or Lord, Lord, didn't 'YOU.' For me it's Lord, Lord, didn't YOU. Apart from faith in Christ and the blood of Christ to wash away our sins, we are all seen in the eyes of God as 'workers of iniquity' because our sin remains.

This means they justified sin like your belief does that says you must always sin this side of Heaven

Straw man argument. I don't justify sin. I hate sin and you are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, so come down off your high horse and stop with the self righteous, false accusations.

(Which contradicts Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts, and which contradicts 1 Peter 4:1-2 that says that he [i.e. the believer] no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.). In other words, it’s not just works; For works are a part of the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit which also includes holy living.

Believers absolutely should not live the rest of their time in the flesh, but to the will of God.

Now there is a difference between doing the will of God IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND doing the will of God AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

That is what we are to strive to do, but that also doesn't mean that believers never have weak moments and stumble either. Believers start out as babes in Christ and grow to maturity in Christ. It's an ongoing process that continues throughout our lifetime and it does not mean that we will reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in our lifetime. Yet whether a babe in Christ or mature in Christ, we are still saved through faith in Christ and not by works. Now according to you, just how many works and how much holy living does it take to save you? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you did "enough" works and you accomplished "enough" holy living so now the Lord will be able to save you based on the merits of your performance? How do you find assurance of salvation in that? (1 John 5:13)

Anyways, you asked me: So saved by grace through faith and not works is not the whole truth in Ephesians 2:8-9?

It's obviously not the whole truth for you, since you believe that we are saved by grace through faith AND works, in contradiction to Ephesians 2:8,9.

Yes, it’s not the whole truth on the topic of salvation and you should know better by the tons of verses that makes that fact obvious that you have to either twist or ignore to your own destruction.

What am I twisting or ignoring to my own destruction? I am trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) Is that to my own destruction? Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

I simply will refer you back to the 15 verses I posted in post #175 as just a tiny sample of verses that show this truth in the Bible.

You mean those 15 verses that you cited out of context and misinterpreted? You are beginning to sound like LoveGodsWord on CF who continuously makes long posts and cites numerous verses then adds his EISEGESIS. More than a few of those 15 verses that you misinterpreted to promote "type 2 works salvation" have already been previously explained to you in the past, but you prefer your EISEGESIS over the truth. You misinterpret those 15 verses the same way that Roman Catholics misinterpret those verses and the end result is 'works righteousness.'

 

[Jim B]

All three.

Can't you give a serious answer? Again, I have no idea what your self-contradictory post means. a) No one is justified by the law but b) the doers of the law shall be justified and c) none above or not under the law shall be justified. Which of the three do you mean?

 

[Jim B]

NO! We now are under THE New Covenant the one and only and eternal, New Covenant of God's Grace through Jesus Christ, THE SAME Covenant every and all saints in the past ARE SAVED UNDER AND BY AS NOW AT PRESENT AS FROM NOW IN THE FUTURE.

O I am getting so tired, Lord? Please come Lord Jesus, come quickly

Robert Gwin said "we are under a new covenant now." and you replied "NO!" Then you wrote "We now are under THE New Covenant the one and only and eternal, New Covenant of God's Grace through Jesus Christ, THE SAME Covenant every and all saints in the past ARE SAVED UNDER AND BY AS NOW AT PRESENT AS FROM NOW IN THE FUTURE."

So you contradicted yourself. What do you believe? Are we under a new covenant now or not?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's perfectly fine, Ron, if that's what you believe.

That makes you a murderer, a robber, an adulterer, a demon worshiper, a liar and all the rest of the 9 Commandments that you swear on everything holy are no longer valid.

If you don't do any of those things, then you obey 9 of the 10 Commandments. There's no getting around that.

You wanna preach a totally unbalanced and unbiblical doctrine that makes you a heretic and discredits your Bible expertise, go right ahead.

You're a hypocrite then. If that's what makes you happy, who am I to mind?

Good luck with that and God bless.

I believe it because it is written in the New Testament for the Church!

9 of the ten are carried over to the church, but for a totally different reason! It is that simple and clearly written for us to learn and grow!

I do not commit adultery because the ten in stone say do not commit adultery. I do not commit adultery because it is a command for the church and not Israel!

I eat Pork because that commandment also was done away with besides the ten wirtten in stone!

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


As one who has declared you are a follower of Jesus- why you reject this very clear and simple passage to uphold the ministry of death is beyond me.

 

[GEN2REV]

As one who has declared you are a follower of Jesus- why you reject this very clear and simple passage to uphold the ministry of death is beyond me.

No, it's not beyond you, Ron.

It's been placed squarely before you many times. You just squeeze your spiritual eyes shut, grit your teeth, clinch your fists, stomp your feet, cross your arms and refuse to accept it.

Here it is again.

Why do I believe in obeying the 10 Commandments?

We are to walk as Jesus walked. (Note: It doesn't say only if you are a Jew)
1 John 2:6
Jesus obeyed all 10.
John 15:10
Jesus says repeatedly that if we love Him we will obey the Commandments.
John 14:15
John 15:14
Jesus says it is those who have and obey the Commandments that will receive Him as the Holy Ghost.
John 14:21-23

And many more ...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why do I believe in obeying the 10 Commandments?

We are to walk as Jesus walked. (Note: It doesn't say only if you are a Jew)

Wait a second! You are being deliberately selective here!

If we are to walk as Jesus walked- He obeyed all 613 commandments! Why aren't you extolling keeping all 613 and celebrating the 7 feasts God commanded to be kept??????

 

[BarneyFife]

I believe it because it is written in the New Testament for the Church!

9 of the ten are carried over to the church, but for a totally different reason! It is that simple and clearly written for us to learn and grow!

I do not commit adultery because the ten in stone say do not commit adultery. I do not commit adultery because it is a command for the church and not Israel!

I eat Pork because that commandment also was done away with besides the ten wirtten in stone!

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


As one who has declared you are a follower of Jesus- why you reject this very clear and simple passage to uphold the ministry of death is beyond me.

Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
Romans 14!
2 Corinthians 3!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!
That's all I need!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"

​

Precious friend(s), are you also "being troubled" by this today?

No. next question??

 

[GEN2REV]

Wait a second! You are being deliberately selective here!

If we are to walk as Jesus walked- He obeyed all 613 commandments! Why aren't you extolling keeping all 613 and celebrating the 7 feasts God commanded to be kept??????

You're desperate to make it complicated.

It's not complicated.

Jesus' Crucifixion eliminated the need for all the Ceremonial/Sacrificial/Carnal Ordinances. Hebrews 9:10

None of those were written in stone. None of those were Moral Laws. All of the Commandments that Jesus spoke of, aside from the standard 10, were an off-shoot of the 10; they were elaborations on the 10.

Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments of His Father. John 15:10

The Feasts should be kept by True Bible-believing Christians, but the time-keeping months have been changed so that it's not easy to know what the Biblical dates for them are today.

Guessing the Jews have a pretty good idea, I'm not a Jew. They would be kept in reverence and honor of God, not as a Salvific practice or necessity.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's absolutely true that you teach "type 2 works salvation" and not salvation through faith in Christ alone.

There is no “Type 2 Works Salvation” mentioned in the Bible. That is either your invented theological term or a term you borrowed that does not exist in Scripture. For one, this term is not descriptively accurate to what I actually believe the Bible teaches. So again, your term is falsely accusing me of something I don't actually believe. I don't believe in Works Salvationism (Which implies Works ALONE Salvationism without God's grace). As I told you before, I believe we are saved by both God's grace and Sanctification (Which includes works, putting away sin, and holy living).

Also, when the Bible talks about faith alone, it actually refutes your false belief in that salvation is through faith (belief) alone in Christ because James 2:24 says,

“You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24) (BLB).
The same word justified is used for both faith and works.

It's not about justifying sin, darkness, or evil in candy l

Yes it is, dear sir. As I told you before, Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts, and 1 Peter 4:1-2 talks about how he (the believer) should live the rest of his time not to the will of the flesh, but to the will of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh perfecting holiness in the fear of God. You don't believe these verses in what they plainly say. You believe you must always sin this side of Heaven (Which is a justification of sin, darkness, and evil).

and and it's also not about living in a self righteous fantasy land either. 1 John 1:8 clearly says - "If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." John makes it clear that we are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, (hence, 1 John 1:9) which also does not mean that we are constantly sinning 24/7 either. It's not about one extreme or the other.

1 John 1:8 is God's word and this verse is in the 'present tense.' You are not agreeing with God here.

You contradict yourself. In your first paragraph you say that we are not constantly sinning 24/7. Then you say in the next sentence after this paragraph you say that 1 John 1:8 is in the present tense (Suggesting that one is sinning in the present tense). This means if one is sinning in the present tense, they would be sinning 24/7.

Anyways, you fail to understand context. You are reading these verses as if they have no connected singular thought. The reason WHY 1 John 1:9 is mentioned is to deal with how to properly deal with sin vs. not dealing with sin by a person falsely denying sin's existence (1 John 1:8). The gnostic believers were trying to seduce the brethren (1 John 2:26), and their denial of sin's existence is a false belief that was a warning to Christians in 1 John 1:8, and 1 John 1:10. For example: Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion and does not exist. So 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them. 1 John 1:8 is basically saying if we say we have no sin [if we do sin] we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. So 1 John 1:9 is the remedy or solution on how to deal with sin if it crops up in a believer's life vs. denying its existence (1 John 1:8). This has to be the interpretive view because 1 John 2:4 basically says that the person who says they know the Lord and they don't keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. So how do exactly believe 1 John 2:4? You can't. It's not possible. Just like you don't believe Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1.

You come across as very judgmental and self righteous, but you simply cannot see it. I am reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector.Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others. (NKJV)
Luke 18:9 - To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: (NIV)

No, sir. My judgment is against the false belief and not the person. I make every effort to not despise those who may justify sin wrongfully, either. Why? Well, Jesus tells me to love my enemies, and I believe that. But I don't love the false belief of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Perpetual Belief Alone-ism. It's the doctrine of demons that I hate and not the victim who has fallen prey to such a doctrine.

Anyways, the point of the parable you missed is that the Pharisee was not doing what the Tax Collector did (Which is crying out to God in having mercy and grace). The Jews made salvation all about Works and little to no grace. This is what Jesus was condemning in the Parable in Luke 18:9-14. Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees otherwise you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 5:20), and no, he was not talking about how you should just trust in the finished work of Christ while not worrying about sin in your life.

We are to honor and serve God.

That's not possible if you believe 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense for your life.
This means you must believe you are sinning 24/7. If this is not the case, then you are denying 1 John 1:8 in that you say you have no sin. So your own belief system self implodes on itself and is simply not consistent. It's contradictory.

When did I accuse you of teaching we are saved by works alone? Of course you teach it's faith AND works, yet even if it's only works (in part) it's still works salvation and not salvation through faith in Christ alone.

By saying that I believe in Type 2 Works Salvation (Which is a man made invented term).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There it is again! - "type 2 works salvation." The sanctification process for you is ultimately about maintaining your salvation by works (you sugar coat it by calling it the works of God) and guess who gets the credit for that? Guess who is left boasting? YOU! (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Uh, no. You are falsely putting words in my mouth. That's not what I believe. I don't believe it is correct for a believer to boast in themselves, but I believe they should boast only in Jesus Christ for any good works that the Lord does through them. Jesus said you can do nothing without me (John 15:5). So no. I am not looking to take any credit. That's simply your own false accusation and claim like your false label that says I believe in Works Salvationism (i.e. your label that I believe in something called: Type 2 Works Salvation - which appears to be your own invented term).

No contradiction at all. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of true saving faith, (James 2:14-24)

You claim works are the result of a saving faith (Which means works is a necessary part of the salvation equation). Then you contradict yourself and say that works does not save. James does not agree with you. James is actually saying that we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). You cannot be saved with a dead faith.

but works are not the very essence of true saving faith (Hebrews 11:1;

While faith can be a belief, Hebrews chapter 11 also gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is also used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. This is something your faith does not do because of your erroneous interpretation on 1 John 1:8.

Ephesians 2:8,9) and works are also not the basis or means by which we obtain or maintain salvation.

As I pointed out to you before. Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with Initial Salvation. Ephesians 2:1 says that we have been quickened or made alive. This happens one time when we receive Christ. Ephesians 2:8 says we receive God's grace like a gift. Receiving gifts are generally done one time, and continually.

(Romans 4:2-6;

Romans 4:2-6 is also talking about Initial Salvation of the believer and it is not referring to how no longer needs to worry about their conduct in regards to salvation.

Paul says in Romans 2:8-9

8 “But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”

We are not under the Law (i.e. the Old Law) (Romans 6:14).

But Romans 2:12 says: “For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:”
So sin will still destroy the believer.
If this was not the case, then Paul would not list various sins to believers and say that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul is warning believers to not sin, or they will not make into the Kingdom. But you twist his words to your own destruction.

1 Peter 1:9)

John 3:36 (The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not.” In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

G544 - apeitheō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@mailmandan

Also in regards to your mention of Romans 4:2-6:

You need to keep in mind that Paul was fighting against what I would call: "Circumcision Salvationism."

Romans 3:1 says what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 4:9-12 brings up the order of when the Lord does not impute sin (blessedness) in regards to belief vs. circumcision. Why bring up circumcision?

Well, a certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Again, this was the false belief that said you had to be initially circumcised to be saved. So if you believed you had to be circumcised to be saved, you would be making the law or work the basis of your salvation and not God's grace. In other words, Circumcision Salvation is basically Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace. Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

Romans 4:21-22 says:
“And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.”

We see a similar thing in 1 John 1:7.
If we walk in the light as He is in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the indirect wording of 1 John 2:9-11.
So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you from all sin.

So again, Romans 4:2-6 is not a case for Perpetual Belief Alone-ism.
Faith starts off as a belief, but it does not remain that way.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Faith is believing everything in your Bible (Which includes INSTRUCTIONS from God for things for you to do).