In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

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MatthewG

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Also if your someone who believes that at the end people go to hell, then you should be at least be able to say that a funeral, or some person who you found out was atheist and not a believer.

Don’t sugarcoat your beliefs, it’s similar to lying to God, wouldn’t you think?

If you believe God puts people into hell and that is where their final destination is, and will be annilhated, just say that, there shouldn’t be any shame to what you believe?

This is why I believe what the Bible says that hell gave up its dead back in that day in age and it is not today done away with, is there still eternal punishment?

In the terms of loss, yes, but is the punishment in for the good of that individual who will eventually confess Christ? Yes, and where do they get to stay? Outside the Kingdom of Heaven with a spiritual body given by God himself.
 

heartwashed

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Though it is not a hill to die on,

Unfortunately for you, if people fall for what you are teaching and fail to see the doctrine of eternal punishment as a deterrent against sin; and because of the lack of that deterrent sin and end up in eternal torments, are you not directly responsible?

Therefore, in preaching what you are preaching, you will in fact die on a hill...because Jesus, who died on a hill, will hold you responsible on your day of judgment for those who did not receive His death on a hill because of your preaching...and therefore His death on a hill will not avail for you.

Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

heartwashed

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What do you define as universalism is the question @heartwashed

Are all people saved to the kingdom of God?

No. Why? Because of faithlessness. Do they have a place in the heavenly Realm? Yes of according to Revelation 22. Will they be in the kingdom of God? No.

Do all ways lead to heaven? No. Only Jesus Christ is the only way to get to the Father and enter into the kingdom of God because of his righteousness and not our own.

Is the way difficult, to enter in the kingdom? Yes, it requires dying to self, love for God and love for mankind also suffering for Christ.

Was Jesus sacrifice on the cross universal and for all of the world? According to scripture Yes, the death of Christ and his atonement for the world and it’s sins were universal.

Is there an unforgivable sin? Yes denying the truth founded in Christ.

How does God talk to all of the world? By nature, in their conscious, the Law that leads to Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Apostles and the Spirit.

So all people are being invited.

Do all come and accept? Not in this life, however will every knee come to bow and confess Christ, the scripture says so; will they be in the heavenly kingdom with God? No. Will they have a place to stay? According to Revelation 22 yes.

So in universalism are all ways leading to be with the kingdom of the heavenly Jerusalem?

How do you define universalism? From my view I believe all will be reconciled to God but not everyone is a child or a son or daughter of God because of faithlessness and they will have a place in the heavenly realm just not apart of the kingdom due to faithlessness.

Do you deny the reality of Revelation 20:10-15, Revelation 21:8, for example?
 
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heartwashed

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The question you asked me. I believe revelation has been completed for that time and age it was written for and too. However in this life there are spiritual principles to learn from the book and rewards founded in there some pertain to us some pertain only to them then. In this life today we are looking to build our spiritual life now today in having love for God and love for others and sharing what Jesus did having overcome, sin, death, Satan and his angels, hell/Sheol, and that we are building up our spiritual treasury that when we die and leave this life we can transition into our new given Spiritual bodies given by God.

Faithless they will have after-life loss, the age of punishment will last until they finally break and confess their need for Jesus in their own time, and they will be given a spiritual body, by God however they will reside outside the kingdom of heaven expressed by Revelation 22.

The Bible tells us to share our Hope with others, this is my hope I’m sharing with you, and you don’t have to believe it friend. It is what resides in my own individual heart.

Please consider also post number 105.

Thank you, what it is being told to you is believed 100% in my own heart.

So, you don't need to believe in Jesus just now in order to be saved.

You can just believe that everyone will eventually be saved and you can put your trust in that instead of what Jesus did for you on the Cross.

There is also no need to preach the gospel; no urgency to get the good news into the hands of those who have not yet believed.

Also, you believe that Revelation 21:8 is not a valid scripture?
 

heartwashed

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I would only say that the lake of fire is located outside of the holy city; and the fact that in Revelation 22:14-15, the same people who were cast into the lake of fire are now found outside of the holy city, does not preclude that they are no longer in the lake of fire.
 

heartwashed

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To the moderators:

This thread should be in the Unorthodox forum; it should not have been moved to the Bible Study forum (as it was previously in the Theology forum).
 

MatthewG

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All please click here if you would like to see the first post: In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

This study is for the edification of others and they may not know what they believe or think about the topic Eternal Punishment. Throughout the centuries there has been many ideas about this, but what does the Bible actually say and suggest is the biggest question.

That is my hope for you, to find out the answer to your questions you may have regarding this topic, it may take a little while to get through but you may be mind blown by what you find out.

May God guide and the spirit lead, test all things.
 

ChristisGod

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If eternal punishment of the wicked is not true then neither is the eternal life of bliss with Jesus true either. They are either both true or both false. Scripture does not give you the option to pick which one you like and which one you don't. They are both equally true @MatthewG

The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.



Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.


The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end.

hope this helps !!!
 

MatthewG

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If eternal punishment of the wicked is not true then neither is the eternal life of bliss with Jesus true either. They are either both true or both false. Scripture does not give you the option to pick which one you like and which one you don't. They are both equally true @MatthewG

The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.



Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.


The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end.

hope this helps !!!

Thank you for sharing however I don’t believe what is shared totally lines up with what is found out by studying the scripture, sir.

That is why I shared a in-depth study for people to ponder and consider, they don’t have to believe it is true and they may believe what they want about enteral punishment, which last only an age, and then it’s over, except for the devil and his angels, and the false prophet and the beast they are in the lake of fire forever now today from my view.

Hell is done away with after emptying the contents with in it.

So it leaves people to ponder about and question what is this all about?

Please be encouraged to read the first post and find out what there is to learn about these things.
 

ChristisGod

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Thank you for sharing however I don’t believe what is shared totally lines up with what is found out by studying the scripture, sir.
It doesn't matter what anyone " thinks " it matters what Jesus said on the topic. My post stands in , on and by Jesus very words. You must change the meaning of Jesus words to support your heretical view on the afterlife by denying the existence of the punishment in the lake of fire for eternity. I don't as the afterlife has 2 literal resting places- one with Jesus in bliss and the other without Him in torment. Those are the only 2 options Jesus taught.

hope this helps !!!
 
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MatthewG

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It doesn't matter what anyone " thinks " it matters what Jesus said on the topic. My post stands in , on and by Jesus very words. You must change the meaning of Jesus words to support your heretical view on the afterlife by denying the existence of the punishment in the lake of fire for eternity. I don't as the afterlife has 2 literal resting places- one with Jesus in bliss and the other without Him in torment. Those are the only 2 options Jesus taught.

hope this helps !!!

That is fine you are free to believe how you will, some people believe this, however there is an alternative view which is seen in revelation where Jesus conquers over all of these things.

It doesn’t matter to me personally where you believe people go to hell or not, you can’t intellectually say they are there forever if the contents are dumped out, so please feel free to believe how you will.

The revelation is the bigger picture, along with What Gods will is, those are also important o incorporate among the studying on the Bible.

So that’s fine you see these teachings as heretical and I love you just as any other person out here in the world.

Be encouraged to challenge your beliefs and see if they do hold water, I’m not here to condemn or call your own view heretical but to encourage people to study the Bible and be lead by the spirit and see what it shows you.
 

MatthewG

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Is it really Gods Will to burn people in a literal fire just for his pleasure?

What is Gods good pleasure and what is his will?

Does he desire none to perish? What is his will?

Be encouraged friends.

Some people out there believe that Jesus hasn’t had the victory and that is okay, we are meant to love others in the body of Christ even if they hold a different view point,

That is the challenge given to us to suffer for Christ to love God and to love others (no matter who they are, where they come from, or what they have done).

What a great challenge God has given to us as believers in the Resurrected Lord.
 

stunnedbygrace

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The bible is very clear that there is eternal torment for the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Then they have eternal life in them, and there’s only one way to eternal life for a human, to be born again of the Spirit. Unless you think that humans are already born with eternal life in them.

The second death isn’t really a second death but is eternal life?
 
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MatthewG

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This is something interesting God said

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’

God doesn’t take pleasure in the death of the wicked at all! So please be mindful of this.
 

ChristisGod

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That is fine you are free to believe how you will, some people believe this, however there is an alternative view which is seen in revelation where Jesus conquers over all of these things.

It doesn’t matter to me personally where you believe people go to hell or not, you can’t intellectually say they are there forever if the contents are dumped out, so please feel free to believe how you will.

The revelation is the bigger picture, along with What Gods will is, those are also important o incorporate among the studying on the Bible.

So that’s fine you see these teachings as heretical and I love you just as any other person out here in the world.

Be encouraged to challenge your beliefs and see if they do hold water, I’m not here to condemn or call your own view heretical but to encourage people to study the Bible and be lead by the spirit and see what it shows you.
views are meaningless and they don't determine truth, you are making truth subjective, not objective and factual. you don't like the idea of eternal torment so you reject it but you like the idea of eternal bliss so you accept it.

I don't like the idea of eternal torment but I accept it because its taught throughout both testaments.

hope this helps !!!
 
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MatthewG

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views are meaningless and they don't determine truth, you are making truth subjective, not objective and factual. you don't like the idea of eternal torment so you reject it but you like the idea of eternal bliss so you accept it.

I don't like the idea of eternal torment but I accept it because its taught throughout both testaments.

hope this helps !!!

This is talking about Eternal punishment.

I accept it for what it is.

After-life loss, and that is what it is.

It’s not actually Eternal punishment either.

It actually should be rendered Age-during punishment which last until it’s over.

Revelation 21 talks about people having a part in the lake of fire - but it doesn’t say they are in there forever like the devil, the false prophet and the beast.

So there is a lot of word playing going on here sir, @Christophany.

So if someone asked me about eternal torment I would politely say it’s actually rendered Age-during and it only last a period of time, and the scripture says that all tongues will eventually bow and confess Jesus as Lord and people can’t do that except by the Holy Spirit.

So the punishment last until the individual realizes their need for the truth… after that Jesus has the keys to the second death, from my view and is able to let people out of the all consuming fire that is God once the purge is completed and the individual freely makes a choice to accept the truth…

Will they be part of the Kingdom of God? Or Children of God? Or Sons or daughters of God? No I don’t believe so, and they suffer after-life loss (which is permanent based on the individuals and their self made choices)but God will reward them with a spiritual body and they can roam outside the kingdom.

Is this all conjecture? Yes, it is but it allows FOR Gods ultimately will to be done and have none perish.
 

MatthewG

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Those of faith in the Lord Jesus and followed him are gonna skip over all this.

This is mainly for those who are faithless, either way it goes, but it’s a punishment that only last until it’s over but what is loss is permanent.

Either this scripture in itself is true or not.


“wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow — of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth — and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:9-11‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


so please people be encouraged to check behind everything and check it all by the Spirit, friends.