Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?

[atpollard]

well it seems that your faith is not in God if you cannot prove it....

Ok, then PROVE you have faith or stand condemned of having no faith (in anything).
I await your proof.

 

[atpollard]

do you believe that God placed is laws in you and are you obedient to God by keeping his laws???

What laws?
You set the guideline that we use no Bible, so what law do you keep that is not found in the Bible?

 

[ChristisGod]

I actually figured it out... you think you will find eternal life in the Bible... even though eternal life is no where in the Bible... unless you want to call Jesus a liar... I mean you claim him to be God Himself,,, that would mean that you call God Himself a liar.... interesting

You actually believe the above is true ?

 

[atpollard]

you do not need the bible to have faith...

Nope … every Muslim, Hindu and Atheist has faith without any use for the Christian bible.

One needs the Bible (a love letter from God) to learn of this invisible Creator that has chosen to love us and has introduced us to Himself [John 6:44] (He knew us before He created the world).

 

[atpollard]

I never said anything about not quoting Scripture...

Really? From just page 1 of this discussion:

How do you know that God does not talk to people??? and I do not want you to use the Bible at all...

Without using the Bible, tell me how Jesus is God Himself?...

You have falsely accused me.
In response, I forgive you and I choose to walk away.

 

[ChristisGod]

Really? From just page 1 of this discussion:




You have falsely accused me.
In response, I forgive you and I choose to walk away.

all his arguments are red herrings/ Tu quoque fallacies and he knows it lol.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

A dictator stating ,Yes you MUST answer the question. You are a mere man or a bot and I answer only to God.

This is NOT edifying nor productive.

Where do you put your faith ?


I will read your answer if you reply but I'll not be party to prattle like this nonsense.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

NO Jesus did not bear Gods wrath at all because Jesus did no wrong...

I guess Jesus’ time spent on the Cross was just “ a day at the beach”, right?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

so you ignore God's word then.... just shows your faith is not in Him to begin with.. you are just proving my point...

At the risk of sounding redundant——- Pffffffttttttt...l

 

[atpollard]

I guess Jesus’ time spent on the Cross was just “ a day at the beach”, right?

Since our host is not worth the effort of conversing with, we might as well speak amongst ourselves …


There is actually a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”. WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger.
Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angry at Jesus?

I would never suggest that Jesus did not suffer the punishment of God for the sins of men, since there are too many verses that clearly state that. Nor would I EVER suggest that God will not pour out His wrath on those that reject the salvation offered in Jesus Christ (typically mentioned as part of a final judgement to come). However, God has also said "The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer [the punishment] for the father's guilt, nor will a father suffer [the punishment] for the son's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” - Ezekiel 18:20 [NASB20]

Is that not exactly what we claim that God has done when we say that the WRATH of the Father (God) fell on Jesus … angrily punished the innocent for the sin of the guilty?

I would prefer to see a verse that EXPLICITLY supported that claim.
(Now that is a conversation worth having.)

 

[atpollard]

I think the MOTIVATION is something other than “wrath”.
Wrath appears to be reserved for the enemies of God at the Final Judgement.

 

[Enoch111]

Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angry at Jesus?

The Father was never angry with Jesus. But Christ endured the wrath of God against sin and sinners. Why else would the Father forsake the Son? And what you think it means when Scripture says that "He made His soul an offering for sin"? What do you think it means when the bible says that "He was SMITTEN of God and afflicted"? What do think it means when the Bible says "the CHASTISMENT of our peace was upon Him"? What do you think it means when Scripture says "for the transgression of my people He was STRICKEN"?

Christians have no business perverting the truth about the sufferings of Christ.

 

[heartwashed]

well you are wrong on both aspects... you really need to reread things then get back to me...

I am not going to read an entire thread that has as its argument that the Bible is not the word of God; for it is written,

Pro 19:27, Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.

But if you want to present your arguments to me in a conversation that is directly with me, then I will engage with you in that conversation in the hopes that I might be able to convince you otherwise. But you are going to have to be engaged in that argument.

 

[atpollard]

The Father was never angry with Jesus.

Could you provide a dictionary definition of “wrath” so we can avoid talking past one another?

As I understand the definition of the word “wrath”, if there there is no anger, then there is no wrath. Therefore, if “The Father was never angry with Jesus.” then “The Father never [poured His wrath] on Jesus.” To move forward, you and I need to agree on the definition of the word “wrath”.

 

[atpollard]

Christians have no business perverting the truth about the sufferings of Christ.

I agree.
That also includes telling people that the Father was angrily punishing the Son (wrath), when the Father was angry at sin (requiring propitiation) and the Son chose to suffer to free us (redeemer).

 

[heartwashed]

The Father was never angry with Jesus.

Could you provide a dictionary definition of “wrath” so we can avoid talking past one another?

As I understand the definition of the word “wrath”, if there there is no anger, then there is no wrath. Therefore, if “The Father was never angry with Jesus.” then “The Father never [poured His wrath] on Jesus.” To move forward, you and I need to agree on the definition of the word “wrath”.

Jesus took our sins upon Himself and the Father was angry with our sins as they fell upon Jesus; and so was angry with Jesus in that sense.

However, Jesus never sinned; and therefore He never did anything to provoke the Father to anger.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus took our sins upon Himself and the Father was angry with our sins as they fell upon Jesus; and so was angry with Jesus in that sense.

However, Jesus never sinned; and therefore He never did anything to provoke the Father to anger.

I WANTED to find the verse that proved the “wrath of God poured on Christ who took the punishment that God wanted to inflict on us” teaching that I had HEARD. I have searched HARD. That is just not what the actual verses in the Bible say. It is what people “read between the lines” that the verses must really mean. That is bad exegeses and hermeneutics.

What the scripture DOES SAY is absolutely fascinating. Try to prove me wrong (I welcome it) and see what you actually find when you REALLY READ THE WORDS. What they say and what they do not say.

 

[atpollard]

I created a new topic on WRATH:

The WRATH of God poured out on Christ … where?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Without a doubt the most important question you will ever be asked in your Christian Life...

Is your faith in the Bible or is it in God?

If you have to use the Bible to validate your faith, then your faith is in the Bible and not in God.
If you Believe that the Bible supports a Triune God, your faith is in the Bible and not in God.
If you believe Jesus was God Himself, your faith is in the Bible and not in God.
If you believe that God will not talk to you, then your faith is in the Bible and not God.

When you post comments and quote them, please post the entire post and not just bits and pieces.
I know hardly any of you will do that because cherry picking is your way of hiding from the truth...

And here we go again with "Word games". Same 'ol Same 'ol

 

[True Faith]

I can see that not one of you have ever actually heard God....
not one single one....

Every single one of you, well except one that I know of, have called Jesus himself a Liar...

You claim that the Bible is eternal life, when it isn't...

By your faith, that is in the Bible and not God Himself, you call Jesus himself a liar when he said John 5:39 "Search the scriptures daily; for in them YE THINK YE MIGHT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE: and they are they which testify of me."

You ask me to show you my faith without the Bible, well I am doing that as we speak.

You claim that the only way that people can hear God is through the Scriptures, The Prophets heard God's voice, the Disciple's of Jesus heard God's Voice so there's that...

Now the scriptures Jesus is referring to is the Old Testament because the New Testament hadn't been written yet...

I have told everyone time and time again, Your life is your faith in God, what did James say??? James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

You show your faith by being obedient to God...

And why do people always say that I said to never use the Bible??? I use it all the time, you would have noticed that if you actually read what was wrote...

People write these long drawn out messages and still have zero clue what this is all about...

You think that in the Bible you will have eternal life, this is absolutely false. Unless you want to call Jesus a liar... And for those who believe that Jesus is God Himself then you are calling God Himself a liar...

there is only one thing you cannot do that can never be forgiven and that is a blasphemy against God, speaking words against God. You know like Calling God Himself a liar... So, basically, when you say that the Bible is eternal life, and you claim that Jesus is God Himself or even his words are God Himself, you are calling God Himself a liar...

So why is your faith in the Bible???

If you say it is not, you are telling a lie if you need it to establish your faith....