Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
When a Once Saved Always Saved adherent reads Hebrews 10:26-29 he reacts like this:
Ahh, I know!!!
Ahh, I know!!!
OSAS Declares Jesus not Enough Not to Sin
- Thread starter robert derrick
- Start date
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Behold
Well-Known Member
I can teach you, but i can't learn it for you.
Try Acts 28,.. some study, when you can take a break from being yourself.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10
I agree, the goats and tares are not OSAS, but the Sheep and the Wheat are OSAS. The problem is that we cannot see which “those” that the Father has drawn/given to the Son and have the promise of ETERNAL LIFE (John 10) and being RAISED ON THE LAST DAY (John 6). So “THEY” are OSAS, but we do not have special glasses to tell “THEY” from “NOT THEY”. Even Judas fooled everyone except God until his true nature was revealed (son of perdition).
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there nolonger remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severerpunishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again,“THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the livingGod.
32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a greatconflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showedsympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw awayyour confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
The elect may sin and repent, confident “that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion” (Philippians 1:6) … which is not the same as apostasy where “They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.” (1 John 2:19). Hebrews 10 is speaking of a “tare” growing alongside the “wheat” ultimately being revealed as never having been wheat, but merely having a similar external appearance for a little while … until it’s true nature is revealed.32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a greatconflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showedsympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw awayyour confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
I agree, the goats and tares are not OSAS, but the Sheep and the Wheat are OSAS. The problem is that we cannot see which “those” that the Father has drawn/given to the Son and have the promise of ETERNAL LIFE (John 10) and being RAISED ON THE LAST DAY (John 6). So “THEY” are OSAS, but we do not have special glasses to tell “THEY” from “NOT THEY”. Even Judas fooled everyone except God until his true nature was revealed (son of perdition).
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Acts 28 has nothing to do with Once Saved Always Saved and the “book of Hebrews”.
But go ahead and school me.
I want to hear every nonsensical explanation you guys use to prop up Eternal Security.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I'll be more happy to thoroughly explain it for you.
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.
If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.
*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.
*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved as a broad brushed meaning, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with Scripture.
In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
So after considering the CONTEXT, most likely "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I wonder how the Greeks spun that scripture back then (if they did)…
They can’t use translation mind tricks like @mailmandan uses.
I’m not reading all that mind numbing nonsense man.
The translators of the Bible gave us what the Greek says. You just got lost in the weeds with your Greek language study books. I don’t care to get my mind corrupted with that stuff. I trust what my Bible says.
They can’t use translation mind tricks like @mailmandan uses.
I’m not reading all that mind numbing nonsense man.
The translators of the Bible gave us what the Greek says. You just got lost in the weeds with your Greek language study books. I don’t care to get my mind corrupted with that stuff. I trust what my Bible says.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Nice diversion. ;) You appear to be very satisfied with what you already believe and don't want to be confused with the facts. Got it.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe what my factually translated King James Bible says.
It’s completely trustworthy.
But you seem to insinuate there’s lies it in by saying that I don’t to be confused by your “facts”?
Does your learning in the “Greek” supersede what is written in the Holy Bible in English?
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The Bible was translated from Hebrew and Greek into English. Don't forget that and don't buy into the KJV only rhetoric.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Good analysis but I'm afraid it is not correct precisely because you are confusing 2 things:
- Sanctified with Saved;
- Past Sin with Future Sin.
Yes, yes, Her 10:10 speaks of being sanctified once and for all but this is referring to sins already committed. v 26 only talks about persisting in sin because it is a possibility and risk of those who have already been sanctified for all time in v 10.
Perhaps you're placing your bet on the persistence of one saved? Exploring this may be the means to reconcile the 2 camps?
I know that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit and that I have sinned since. But I have already confessed that it is not persistent. I am more sensitive and aware of my sins, quickly repent, ask for forgiveness and know I need Jesus more now than before I was saved (or perhaps, more aware and sensitive to how much I need him daily to guide me).
If you ever actually address any point made, whether to agree or correct it, or if you'd like clarification, then that would be fine.
Until then, I no longer enter useless arguments on the bible study forum. If you want to take it private, or go to the debate forum, that would be fine.
Thanks.
This is a very wise point. I learned long ago by experience, that God has His Scripture translated through the world, with no need whatsoever to be an original languages scholar, nor transcripts manager.
And when someone begins to 'go to the Greek' to teach the first principles of the doctrine of Christ, you can be sure that just twisting it in our own language would be too obvious.
Original languages can be a benefit, but not a proof. We are not Muslims that have to know the Arabic in order to 'truly understand' what Allah is saying.
Most of that stuff is just knowledge pride.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I wish you would do bible study on the bible study forum and not express personal opinion and mask it as bible study. But so be it. when you wish to promulgate your false doctrine in the study forum, I will call it out as false doctrine and not respond further. I will show why gods Word proves you in error sand leave it at that.
I just no longer bother arguing with you anymore, since you never actually address any point I make and try to correct it, but only go on with your own mantra.
So, I just no longer bother arguing with you anymore.
I never said I cared if you agree with the teaching or not.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I take that as a badge of honor. I addressed your points many times, now I just keep calling you out for the wolf in sheep's clothing you are. As long as you believe the blood Jesus shed is not enough to save a soul forever, but has to have add ons- you are a false teacher!
Complete and total blasphemy of the gospel and scripture.
A lie straight from the bowles of Satan.
God's word tells us, faith and salvation are HIS free irrevocable (permanent) gifts of grace.
No one comes to salvation,Jesus,the anointed, unless God leads them. And those that come will NEVER be lost.
Because we did not choose God,God chose us.
Which is why Jesus taught the gospel (''good news''), in parables.
So that not everyone would understand, [made obvious by the OP] and come to repentance and salvation.
Those whom God calls he foreknew. Because his called/chosen have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life that God wrote before the foundation, creation, of the world.
Jesus taught the good news in parables so only God's chosen would understand. This happens when God's spirit enters into the natural man- woman so now they can understand the gospel, unlike natural man who cannot,and by God's design, trust what God says in his word. When you are indwelt so to do that.
Don't EVER read the OP written by natural man , or any like it, and think that's a reflection or synopsis of the good news Christ brought to life.
If you the reader are blessed to understand the gospel you'll know the OP is literally, according to scripture, a damnedable lie.
God protect his Saints from the enemies of the cross. On this site and in the world.
Amen.
Too aggressive?
Wait till the blasphemers and anti-gospel proponents arrive at the judgement seat of God, answer for every word they posted against his good news, and are cast into hell.
I thought you were condemning the OSAS lie that the Lamb of God is not enough of a sacrifice, nor is the resurrection of Jesus not enough to stop us from sinning. But only partially so.
Guess not.
Wolves don't preach against sinning with the devil at any time, but instead preach doing righteousness at all times.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
We know. That's why we condemn your blasphemy against Jesus and eternal salvation.
