Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
...But not as a reward of debt owed. Paul is very clear about this.
Works only save in the sense that they are the evidence of faith in God's forgiveness that Jesus will be using to divide the sheep from the goats.
The Mystery of Abraham's Works that do and don't Justify
- Thread starter robert derrick
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Works only save in the sense that they are the evidence of faith in God's forgiveness that Jesus will be using to divide the sheep from the goats.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The Roman Catholic church certainly fits, but is not the only group that fits.
@mailmandan
Do you think that the works of faith - which is Christ in us which is our new life, are important to do? To seek and do the will of God by and through the strength of Christ by the Spirit of Christ that lives in you?
It seems to me here people are actually missing the fact that of course your very own individual works by your own flesh does nothing to get closer to God. However, the only personal work you do as an individual is to believe on the one whom God had sent.
There is nothing wrong with an individual who seeks to do the will of God by and through the holy spirit - and it is always the Righteousness of Christ by faith that makes a person right with God...
I believe this does have an important principle when it comes to the end of life and a Christian believer receives their reward given by God which to me in my own personal opinion is be given a Resurrected spiritual body, as scripture explains and there are differing glories...
There is resurrection of Just and UnJusst, and also the Outer Resurrection which is different than the normal.
Perhaps people do not know these thing or do not care to study them it is important, so are the works of faith - that you personally abide in Christ and allow God to work in and through you by the Holy spirit to produce good fruit...
Do you think that the works of faith - which is Christ in us which is our new life, are important to do? To seek and do the will of God by and through the strength of Christ by the Spirit of Christ that lives in you?
It seems to me here people are actually missing the fact that of course your very own individual works by your own flesh does nothing to get closer to God. However, the only personal work you do as an individual is to believe on the one whom God had sent.
There is nothing wrong with an individual who seeks to do the will of God by and through the holy spirit - and it is always the Righteousness of Christ by faith that makes a person right with God...
I believe this does have an important principle when it comes to the end of life and a Christian believer receives their reward given by God which to me in my own personal opinion is be given a Resurrected spiritual body, as scripture explains and there are differing glories...
There is resurrection of Just and UnJusst, and also the Outer Resurrection which is different than the normal.
Perhaps people do not know these thing or do not care to study them it is important, so are the works of faith - that you personally abide in Christ and allow God to work in and through you by the Holy spirit to produce good fruit...
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I don't teach the false doctrines of works righteousness, sinless perfection or that Jesus is NOT God, so it's not me who is looking in the wrong direction.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes.
See, the bible has to be "rightly divided" because if we dont do this, we apply versed out of context.....often applying them to the body of Christ, when they are only applicable to the OT JEWS.
If we look at a NT verse......we ask ourselves....>Is this talking to the BRIDE OF CHRIST, or is it talking to the OT JEW, under the law, whom JESUS was dealing with in most verses.
Then we look at all verses, that are given by any Apostle, PRIOR to the Cross of Christ, and we first of all notice and realize......are they for the CHURCH or are they for the HEBREWS.
Michiah=Imla, has no understanding of 'rightly dividing" at all.
He just reads his commentaries, and if he reads a verse in a bible, he then creates whatever he wants to believe next, and posts it.
THat is most of his posts.........about 99%
Nothing he posts is related to Pauline Theology.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You're majoring in a minor.
What does it matter if the person who "loses" their faith ever had it to begin with or not? They're going to the fiery place either way. So stop arguing over a detail that has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not a person will enter into the kingdom at the end of the age. The important thing is that people are told they must be believing in Christ, not used to believe in Christ, or never believed in Christ. You are not carrying this important message to the lost. Instead, you're making lost people comfortable and unawares in their lostness. You will have no reward for your labor in the field and building of God when Jesus return because you're planting weeds and building with straw.
Behold
Well-Known Member
And what is that WILL< Robert?
Its that you BELIEVE IN JESUS.
That's GOD's WILL for every person.
If you do that, God will accept your faith and give you the new birth, and you become a Son of God......a new creation in Christ.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Works of faith/good works and important. They glorify God and are good and profitable to men. (Matthew 5:16; Titus 3:8) We just need to understand that we are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
And you are not majoring in anything except self righteousness.
Im here talking about the Cross and the Grace of God.
You do not, unless you attach "and you must do this, ad you must not do that'.....to it.
And when you do that, you have DENIED "the GIFT of Salvation" and are found again and again and again, teaching "another Gospel.
So....Im talking to people who are trusting in faith to keep them saved.
Why?
Because FAITH does not save you.
God saves you THROUGH your faith...ONE TIME. = born again... That is the proof that Christ's Salvation = that HE completed has been imputed or given to you and me, as a GIFT.
You dont keep holding unto faith to keep staying born again., which is bizarre theology, not found in a Bible.
As born again is to have BECOME ALREADY "a new Creation" a "Son of God".
We dont hold unto faith to keep what has already BECOME, already happened.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Faith in the blood of Christ is not self righteousness.
What seminary did you graduate from, what Bible do you read, lol?
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“…glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile” (Romans 2:10)
“go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11)
“Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:15)
Confess that Jesus is the Son of God Dan.
Confess!
Behold
Well-Known Member
"The CROSS is the Power of God, unto Salvation"
"It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching (THE CROSS), to SAVE THEM WHO BELIEVE".
So, that is not FAITH saving you, if you hold unto it, as if it died on the Cross for you.
Its JESUS on the CROSS who is the SAVIOR, that is SALVATION.........not us holding unto faith.
Faith in Christ is given to God on that day you first Believe.
He then does the rest.......not you.
He performs the pardon of Sin, using the Cross
God performs the new birth, using the Cross.
God "is faithful to complete your Salvation", not you. Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2 = Jesus is the "finisher of your FAITH", not you..
See, you gave them your faith, which puts the responsibility of saving you, on JESUS on the Cross, and He has completed this already for You, 2000 yrs ago.
That is why Jesus said just before He died on The Cross... "Its it FINISHED".
That is SALVATiON = its FINISED.
We GET IT, as "the Gift of Salvation" when we give God our faith.
Proof?
BORN AGAIN
New Creation in Christ.
Heir of God.
Son of God
Joint heir of Jesus
Child of the Light
REDEEMED.
See those, those are ACCOMPLISHED BY GOD FOR YOU< the instant you give God your FAITH......ONCE.....=One the DAY you first BELIEVED.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Actually, it is found in the Bible. But for some reason you just got it inside of you that you're not going to believe that a person has to continue in faith in the blood in order to be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus returns. At least the original once saved always saved doctrine understood that you had to have faith to the very end to be saved from damnation at the Judgment. Your new once saved always saved doctrine is utterly ridiculous to those of us who know and read the Bible. People who don't believe because they stopped believing or because they never really believed to begin with are not going into the kingdom of God at the end of the age. Stop telling people unbelievers are going into the kingdom, too!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
But in your theology you have him doing a really lousy job of finishing people's faith because you have people arriving at the judgment devoid of a faith they may or may not have really had and Jesus ushering them into the kingdom. Not to mention your Jesus couldn't give his people enough faith to not live in their old unconverted lives of sin anymore. You simply do not teach the Christ of the Bible. Yours is a weak beta Jesus, lol.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Jesus cannot compromise His perfect, holy standard so of course He is not going to say, go and just sin a little, but go and sin no more. The woman caught in adultery left her life of living in adultery, but that doesnt necessarily mean that she remained sinless 100% of the time from that point on.
What does "Son of God" means tou you? Junior and inferior to God the Father? What kind of inferior Savior are you trusting in? Only begotten Son of God means unique, one of a kind. Jesus IS God. (John 1:1-14) Stop robbing Him of His glory!
I confess that Jesus is the (unique, one of a kind) Son of God which makes Him co-equal with God the Father.
Lying about the teaching is not correction, but admission the teaching cannot be corrected.
Faith with works salvationists is true. Works salvationists is not. Even as faith alone salvationism is imaginary.
I never speak of faith nor works alone, but only you loners speak of them being alone, because you refuse to see them both together at the same time, where there is never one without the other as God says in Scripture.
The first works begin spiritually within the heart to resist the devil, as Abraham was doing climbing the devil, and the justifying works are completed in the flesh.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Why do you have new creations not being new creations and instead living unchanged and unconverted in the sinfulness of the old creation? See, people who have not been changed and converted ARE NOT CHANGED AND CONVERTED. They are not born again new creations in Christ. If they were, they'd act like it. You have a Jesus who is too weak to keep people in the faith, but who will save them at the Judgment nonetheless. Yours is a false and misleading gospel. You're building a house of straw. One that won't make it through the coming fires of judgment.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
I’m not robbing Christ of his glory!
But:
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1 John 2:22)
There’s no admonition on denying that Jesus is God BECAUSE HE IS NOT GOD!
This scripture, with such a serious warning, would have said so!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I have thoroughly explained the truth to you and have properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. I really don't care for your false teachings or your slander.