What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

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Wrangler

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He wasn't redeeming only Adam. He suffered for everyone.
It's a good point but I'm not sure it changes the math on redemption. I mean Scripture says one made brought sin, another man brought salvation, right? Scripture emphasizes 2 points; they were men and the unity of what was redeemed, 1:1. Maybe you are relying on another verse?
 

RLT63

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In this bottle dwells the fullness of a smooth 10 year old whiskey. That does not make me whiskey. So, you are right. Still no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Funny how trinitarians cannot help invoke Strawman. If they assert 1 verse supports the man-is-god thesis, that's almost like a trinity verse, when it is nothing like it at all. EVEN IF Jesus were God, 2 do not a trinity make. On top of the salvation requirement and equality condition completely missing.
I don't think you have to understand the Godhead to be saved.
 
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RLT63

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As I understand trinitarianism, it is not understanding it but believing it that is a condition of being saved. Do you hold that one must believe in the trinity to be saved?
If you believe Jesus is the Son of God, that he died for our sins and rose from the dead on the 3rd day, repent of your sins and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior I think you are saved. I think to do so you have to pray to Jesus.
 
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Matthias

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And I fear for those who worship YHVH but ignore His Ben and Shem Bno!

Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
OJB

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
OJB
Joh 17:5 And now give me kavod, Avi, along with Yourself with the kavod which I was having with You before HaOlam came to be [Yn 1:1 3; Prov 8:30; 30:4]. Pre-existence of Yeshua along with the Father
OJB

Pro 8:30 Then I was etzel (at the side of, beside [see Yn 1:1]) Him, as an Amon (master craftsman, builder, architect, artist); and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;
OJB

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended into Shomayim, or descended? Who hath gathered ruach in the hollows of His hands? Who hath bound the mayim in a cloak? Who hath established all the afsei aretz (ends of the earth)? What is Shmo (His Name), and what is Shem Bno (the Name of His Son [See Memra, creative Word of G-d in Targumim]), if thou canst tell?

OJB

In the light of these scriptures...


Jesus Prays to be Glorified
¶ Jesus said these things , and lifting up his eyes to heaven he said, “Father, the hour has come! Glorify your Son, in order that your Son may glorify you—
Joh 17:2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh, in order that he would give eternal life to them—everyone whom you have given him.
Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified you on earth by [*Here “by ” is supplied as a component of the participle (“completing”) which is understood as means] completing the work that you have given me to do. [Literally “that I may do it”]
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, you glorify me at your side [Literally “by the side of yourself”] with the glory that I had at your side [Literally “by the side of you”] before the world existed. Pre-existence of Jesus along with the Father

Joh 17:6 Jesus Prays for His Disciples
¶ “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
Joh 17:7 Now they understand that all the things that [Literally “whatever”] you have given me are from you,
Joh 17:8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me.
Joh 17:9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,
Joh 17:10 and all my things are yours, and your things are mine, and I have been glorified in [Or “by”; or “through”] them.
Joh 17:11 And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given to me, so that they may be one, just as we are .
Joh 17:12 When I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given to me, and guarded them , [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] and none of them has perished except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture would be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world so that they may have my joy completed in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth—your word is truth.
Joh 17:18 Just as you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for them I sanctify myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth.

Joh 17:20 Jesus Prays for the Unity of Believers
¶ “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—
Joh 17:23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

Joh 17:24 ¶ “Father, those whom you have given to me—I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Pre-existence of Messiah along WITH the Av'di
Joh 17:25 Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I made known to them your name, and will make it [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I may be in them.”

Amen and Amen

So much for your no more dialogue position.

When your head hits the pillow tonight, your deity will not be my God and my God will not be your deity. Don’t lose a minute of sleep over it. It will be the same when you awake in the morning.

My hope for you is that one of these nights you’ll be troubled at the thought of knowing that your deity isn’t the Messiah’s God.
 

Matthias

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If you believe Jesus is the Son of God, that he died for our sins and rose from the dead on the 3rd day, repent of your sins and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior I think you are saved. I think to do so you have to pray to Jesus.

I don’t know about @Wrangler but I appreciate that kind of attitude. The mouth that speaks like that won’t speak to me like the mouth of the wicked and the hypocrite does.

Do you pray to anyone besides Jesus?
 
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Johann

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I don't think you have to understand the Godhead to be saved.
That's the problem here,@RLT63...we don't have to understand the Godhead to be saved...yet I firmly believe the scriptures shows the Triune Godhead.


Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
yet...

1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

Noticed you are being bombarded with questions, but not giving in an inch.

You have my respect, that's how we do it in South Africa.
 
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Matthias

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I don't think you have to understand the Godhead to be saved.

Do we have to understand that the Godhead is three persons in order to be saved? I think we’ve agreed that we don’t. Please let me know if I’m mistaken about that.
 

Johann

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My hope for you is that one of these nights you’ll be troubled at the thought of knowing that your deity isn’t the Messiah’s God.
Deprecatory prayers?
I know in Whom I have placed my hope and trust, and is known by Him, my great God and Savior Christ Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit, awaiting my final redemption.
Hit the ignore button.
 

Matthias

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Deprecatory prayers?
I know in Whom I have placed my hope and trust, and is known by Him, my great God and Savior Christ Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit, awaiting my final redemption.
Hit the ignore button.

I think you should have mentioned the Trinity, but I’m not complaining that you didn’t.

You have confidence in a deity which isn’t the Messiah’s God. I don’t know how that will work out in the end. I believe there is a wideness in God’s mercy. How wide will be demonstrated in the resurrection.

If you want to hit the ignore button then you should. I’m not sure what to think when someone tells me that they are no longer going to dialogue with me and then they continue to dialogue with me.
 
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Renniks

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I can't get anyone to answer this honest question. All I get back is because the Bible says so. But there must be a reason for it. What is it? Here I will give you a reason why he had to be a man.

Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

Now it's your turn. Anyone?
The truth is always a benefit .. don't you agree?
 

Mr E

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.yet I firmly believe the scriptures shows the Triune Godhead.

I’m glad you recognize this as a belief you hold and nothing more. That kind of awareness should make you less likely to condemn others who believe differently.
 
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RLT63

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Do we have to understand that the Godhead is three persons in order to be saved? I think we’ve agreed that we don’t. Please let me know if I’m mistaken about that.
I posted what I think you have to do to be saved.
 
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