Assurance of salvation

[RichardBurger]

Assurance of salvation:

Acts 13:38-39
38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
NKJV

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
NKJV

Romans 10:10-13
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
NKJV

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

1 John 5:9-13
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
NKJV

The children of God HAVE eternal life

 

[FHII]

AMEN!

 

[aspen]

If we humble ourselves (aquire a true understanding of our strengths and weaknesses in relation to God and His love for us) and exercise faith (suspend our disbelief long enough to experience God's love), submit to justification (God's desire and williness to restore a relationship with us through forgiveness of our sins, made possible through the ministry and death of Christ) and a life of practicing our sanctification (learning to love through the guidance of the HS as we were created to love, by picking up our cross daily and following a life dedicated to love at all costs and with our entire beings), we will be redeemed and transformed into citizens of Heaven.

We do not receive a ticket to Heaven, we are transformed into citizens of Heaven. We will never possess salvation, redemption, or Heaven; we will be transformed into citizens/products of Heaven.

 

[Prentis]

Jesus did not come to sell fire insurance (or hellfire insurance, if you would), rather he came to save men away from what they are.

It's not 'if you try to use my love for you to get yourself saved, you shall find your life', but rather 'he who loses his life for my sake shall find it'.

Unless we do leave our ways, unless we do leave our life for Christ's, we cannot be his disciples.

Otherwise we make the standard for being a disciple to hear Christ say 'follow me', but rather the standard is to hear, and follow. Many are called, but few are chosen. Paul speaks of an actual entering into Christ, and walking in his Spirit. This is done by faith, and not of works. But for this to apply, for us to be above the earthly law, we must be walking in this in reality, not figurative imagination. We cannot picture ourselves in Christ and thus be, rather we truly enter into Christ by faith. We shouldn't say it has happened if it did not.

There is this spirit that is rampant in Christianity today which says 'Imagine yourself on Daddy's knees' rather than calling us to get on ours... It says we are seated in heavenly places... Rather than honestly facing the reality that we are not there at this point, and seeking God that he would pour out his Spirit. It is the fulfilemment of Laodicea, based on an opinion that we have spiritual riches when we don't.

 

[lawrance]

Is there anyone hear that would tell others that he him self is going to Heaven. and maybe even say of others that are going.

 

[RichardBurger]

Is there anyone hear that would tell others that he him self is going to Heaven. and maybe even say of others that are going.

if a person does not believe he/she is going to heaven then they do not believe in Jesus Christ's work on the cross and are not saved; --- they believe in what they do to get there.

As for me I will believe the scriptures I posted in the OP. Salvation for the children of God is a done deal. They were purchaseed by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross.

Jesus did not come to sell fire insurance (or hellfire insurance, if you would), rather he came to save men away from what they are.

It's not 'if you try to use my love for you to get yourself saved, you shall find your life', but rather 'he who loses his life for my sake shall find it'.

Unless we do leave our ways, unless we do leave our life for Christ's, we cannot be his disciples.

Otherwise we make the standard for being a disciple to hear Christ say 'follow me', but rather the standard is to hear, and follow. Many are called, but few are chosen. Paul speaks of an actual entering into Christ, and walking in his Spirit. This is done by faith, and not of works. But for this to apply, for us to be above the earthly law, we must be walking in this in reality, not figurative imagination. We cannot picture ourselves in Christ and thus be, rather we truly enter into Christ by faith. We shouldn't say it has happened if it did not.

There is this spirit that is rampant in Christianity today which says 'Imagine yourself on Daddy's knees' rather than calling us to get on ours... It says we are seated in heavenly places... Rather than honestly facing the reality that we are not there at this point, and seeking God that he would pour out his Spirit. It is the fulfilemment of Laodicea, based on an opinion that we have spiritual riches when we don't.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

 

[Prentis]

if a person does not believe he/she is going to heaven then they do not believe in Jesus Christ's work on the cross and are not saved; --- they believe in what they do to get there.

As for me I will believe the scriptures I posted in the OP. Salvation for the children of God is a done deal. They were purchaseed by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross.



5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Anybody can just quote a verse, Richard.

Your interpretation of the verse doesn't fit with the rest of scripture.... Like Paul continuing to say...

[sup]11[/sup] And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. [sup]12[/sup] The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. [sup]13[/sup] Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. [sup]14[/sup] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13)

Salvation is closer??? Can't be, according to you it's all already there! Putting on Christ??? Walking in the light actually means NOT to fulfill the lusts of the flesh???? It's possible not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh????

You'll have to cut this passage out of your Bible, Richard!

 

[Prentis]

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

I will also add... If we wisely add this verse with the words of Jesus that 'blessed are those who hunger for righteousness, for they will be satisfied', Paul and Jesus are basically saying the same thing.

The one who 'believes on him who justifies the ungodly' is not one who desires to be justified while remaining ungodly (otherwise grace is indeed a license to sin... from God himself!), but rather it is the man who hungers for righteousness.

God justifies those who hunger for righteousness by forgiving them because they are repentant and actually clothing them with righteousness. He actually strengthens his people to walk as he does... Who woulda thunk?

Like it says... God orders the steps of the man who's heart is set on him.

 

[Prentis]

I will also add... If we wisely add this verse with the words of Jesus that 'blessed are those who hunger for righteousness, for they will be satisfied', Paul and Jesus are basically saying the same thing.

The one who 'believes on him who justifies the ungodly' is not one who desires to be justified while remaining ungodly (otherwise grace is indeed a license to sin... from God himself!), but rather it is the man who hungers for righteousness.

God justifies those who hunger for righteousness by forgiving them because they are repentant and actually clothing them with righteousness. He actually strengthens his people to walk as he does... Who woulda thunk?

Like it says... God orders the steps of the man who's heart is set on him.

Thus it is indeed by faith and not of works... That we put on Christ, thus being like him!

 

[RichardBurger]

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Anybody can just quote a verse, Richard.

Your interpretation of the verse doesn't fit with the rest of scripture.... Like Paul continuing to say...

[sup]11[/sup] And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. [sup]12[/sup] The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. [sup]13[/sup] Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. [sup]14[/sup] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts (Romans 13)

Salvation is closer??? Can't be, according to you it's all already there! Putting on Christ??? Walking in the light actually means NOT to fulfill the lusts of the flesh???? It's possible not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh????

You'll have to cut this passage out of your Bible, Richard!

Yes, anyone can quote scripture, you included. No, I do not have to cut anything out of the scriptures. Our savation is complete in Christ, however, our flesh bodies will not be transfromed into our new bodies until this old body dies. According to scriptures flesh and blood will never enter heaven.

According to scripture the children of God already have salvation.

And just how do you practice righteousness? Is it by what you do, or by trusting in the one that was righteous for us?

It is obvious that those who trust in themselves are not practicing righteousness. They practice self-righteousness.

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness"

Since the above statement came from the word of God I believe it to be true. The righteousness I practice is my belief, faith, trust, and c onfidence in the fact that I am righteous because He is righteous and has justified me before God. -- I would much rather be justified by Jesus than by my works of the flesh. But you trust in your works for justification.

The Great -You have to take it- debate:

It is said that faith is not faith unless it has works as a result. Many use the statement “you have to reach out and take it” as an example of having to do the work of taking the free gift of salvation. --- That is the way a man might see it. However;

“Faith is the substance of things not seen:” Heb 11:1-2

1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. NKJV

How can you reach out, with human hands,, and take something that is not seen with the human eye? A child of God does not reach out and take the free gift of salvation, by God’s grace, by physical human actions (works).

An example: ----- A friend of mine knows I need a car to get me to the store and back so he puts his car in my driveway with gas and keys in it. He then calls me to tell me about it. --- I don’t have to look in the driveway to see if there is a car there because I trust in my friend. He wouldn’t tell me it was there if it wasn’t. In other words I have faith, trust, and confidence in my friend. --- The car is a gift, given to me by a friend. It is there ready for me to use. But I don’t need to use it right now. My friend has been a wonderful friend and now I am going to tell everyone I know about him.

----- My friend is Jesus. The car is His salvation and it is not a physical thing that can be obtained physically. ---

Two important things to think about:

1. What if my wife tells me “how can I be sure the car is there unless I go and see.” If I listen to her, and go see, then I have lost my faith, trust, confidence in what my friend told me. My efforts to go and see has not proved my faith, “”It has proven my lack of faith.””

2. What if my wife tells me I need to go and pay my friend some money for the rental of his car and I do as she asks? Now I have replaced my friends offer of a gift with a payment and that makes his gift a paid for item. It is no longer a gift. I have put him in the car rental business.


I believe, I have faith, I trust, I have confidence, in the work that God’s Son, Jesus, accomplished on the cross. When I pass from this life into the next, His work on the cross will allow me to be in heaven with my heavenly Father. It is then that I will need to use His free gift of salvation. It is always mine to use when I pass from this life into the next.

If a person thinks that God owes them something for what they do, then to them, God owes them a payment. It is a work that creates a debt that they think must be paid by God to the worker. This is law.

If a person does a work and DOES NOT expect a payment in return then that is a gift. (God's gift to mankind)

Jesus’ work on the cross was under law and has resulted in God giving Him all power and authority. That is the payment for the work that Jesus did on the cross. Jesus did that work for us, so that we can become children of God “”by faith in His work.””

Today we are not saved under the law of debt and payment. We are saved by God’s grace given to us by the work of His Son on the cross. Given to us by Jesus because He loves us enough to make a plan of salvation that saves sinners and all men are sinners.

 

[lawrance]

So richard are you saying you are going up and prentis is going down.?

 

[RichardBurger]

So richard are you saying you are going up and prentis is going down.?

I have said what I have said and posted the scriptures that support it.

It is obvious that those who trust in themselves are not practicing righteousness. They practice self-righteousness.

 

[Prentis]

You always repeat the same things Richard, one verse + your own understanding.

But you provide no explanations for the verses provided that show your interpretation to be faulty.

Blessings!

 

[FHII]

There's a beam in someone's eye who's trying to pluck a mote from anothers.

 

[RichardBurger]

You always repeat the same things Richard, one verse + your own understanding.

But you provide no explanations for the verses provided that show your interpretation to be faulty.

Blessings!

LOL!!!

I have given many explanations but you can't see them because the god of this world has blinded you just as he did to the Jews.

Why? Because you do not believe in the gospel of grace that makes people righteous in the eyes of God based on the work of His Son on the cross. You believe in a gospel of works that man has to preform in order to be righteous before God.

 

[Prentis]

You confuse man's imagination with a reality.

Paul and John tell those to whom they send their letters that they DO have life in Christ, and that they ARE seated in heavenly places because it was a reality for them. God had put them there... And they truly were walking in him.

You take those scriptures and say 'it must be talking about me!'

But that is not how it works. Rather we are to believe into Christ by faith, then we are clothed with him and walk as he walked. You base it on the idea that you believe it, you are it! Christ and the apostles judged by the fruit, who was and who was not in Him.

 

[RichardBurger]

You confuse man's imagination with a reality.

Paul and John tell those to whom they send their letters that they DO have life in Christ, and that they ARE seated in heavenly places because it was a reality for them. God had put them there... And they truly were walking in him.

You take those scriptures and say 'it must be talking about me!'

But that is not how it works. Rather we are to believe into Christ by faith, then we are clothed with him and walk as he walked. You base it on the idea that you believe it, you are it! Christ and the apostles judged by the fruit, who was and who was not in Him.

I confuse nothing. The scriptures are God' s words and ""yes"" they are written for me.

I am not interested in how you think it works. I am only interested in how the scriptures say it works.

 

[Prentis]

I confuse nothing. The scriptures are God' s words and ""yes"" they are written for me.

I am not interested in how you think it works. I am only interested in how the scriptures say it works.

What about the part for condemnation? What about the part that says 'YOU are children of the devil? Is that also for you?

You do not read the scriptures and let them reveal who you are, rather as you show right there, you read scriptures, take what God says is good about other people and say 'THAT'S ME!'

But that is an evil thing to do... You judge yourself righteous, rather than letting God do so.

Here's how the scriptures say it works:
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

First of all, it says beholding, not imagining... Second of all, you don't even believe in being transformed into his likeness...

 

[lawrance]

I have said what I have said and posted the scriptures that support it.

It is obvious that those who trust in themselves are not practicing righteousness. They practice self-righteousness.

More boasting and barking up the wrong tree. we don't trust in our selves. slander.

 

[RichardBurger]

1' What about the part for condemnation? What about the part that says 'YOU are children of the devil? Is that also for you?

2. You do not read the scriptures and let them reveal who you are, rather as you show right there, you read scriptures, take what God says is good about other people and say 'THAT'S ME!'

3. But that is an evil thing to do... You judge yourself righteous, rather than letting God do so.

4. Here's how the scriptures say it works:
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

5. First of all, it says beholding, not imagining... Second of all, you don't even believe in being transformed into his likeness...

I have stated what I believe and your interpretation of what I believe is false.

1a. A very silly statement Prentis.

2a. The scriptures tell me who I am in the flesh anf who I am in the Spirit. But you don't know the difference.

3a. A false statement by you. You know, very well, what I have said about this. No man can make himself righteous before God. It is by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross that I am judged righteous before God, not by what I do to make myself righteous. Your message is that you make yourself righteous before God by what you do. This statement. by you. applies to you. It is what you do.

4a. Who is doing the transforming, you by your works?

5a. It is the Spirit of a person that is transformed (born again), not the flesh. Jesus said we must be born again by the Spirit. You can't do it by your works. Jesus said that which is flesh "is flesh" that which is Spirit "is Spirit" but you can't see any difference. Your flesh and blood will never enter heaven. Only the born again spirit can enter heaven. --- If you love your life in the flesh you have no future in heaven.

Keep on making these stupid statement born in your heart that shows no love for others. You claim you are becoming like Jesus and yet you do the same things the Pharisees did to Jesus; make false statements about me. -- But you can't see it can you?

I make no false statements about you. You preach works of man for salvation. That is what I see you preaching.

More boasting and barking up the wrong tree. we don't trust in our selves. slander.

A person is to trust (have faith) in God, not in himself. The scriptures teach that a person should trust in God, not man.

Do a word study in the scriptures for the word "trust" and you will see that if you trust in man you are building a house on sand.