Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @n2thelight @RLT63

To those of you who think that Eve believed the serpent and chose to eat based upon her own free will.

The word "believed" does not occur in the creation account - nor does "believed" appear anywhere else in Scripture in relation to Eve.

Eve was deceived, not convinced, for Paul wrote of Eve "the woman, having been deceived, has come into transgression" (1 Timothy 2:14).

Eve was in the flesh because Adam said "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man" (Genesis 2:23).

Deception is a state of being for people in the flesh, and the flesh is against God for Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17), so this means that "those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:8) - not even to choose God.

Eve was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26), and God created Eve without her knowing good and evil, yet God knew what good and evil was when God created Eve, so Eve was not created with all of God's attributes.

God willpowering purported "free will" into Eve, specifically a free will into Eve in the likeness God's will, during the creation of Eve means that Eve could not have used free will to perform evil against God because God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4); THEREFORE, it follows that Eve could not use such a free will in order to perform evil against God. This sounds a lot like Romans 8:20 as shown in post #1101 in this thread.

"I, YHWH your God, am a jealous God" (Exodus 20:5) says the Word of God, and the Word of God says "I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8), so God jealously reserves the glory for man's salvation to God alone (John 3:3-8, John 3:21, John 6:29).

Man in man's flesh jealously glorifies the man, and it is here that we find a corollary attribute between Eve and God - see that Eve jealously engaged in self glorification.

God converts man (Matthew 18:3) for thus says the Lord "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so then man seeks God’s glory just as Jesus exemplifies to us Christians (John 6:38).

Your deceptions listed

• your heart evilly adds "believed" into the creation account - even into the Word of God,
• your heart evilly thinks the flesh is capable of pleasing God,
• your heart evilly pits your postulated God-like "free-will" for Eve against God,
• your heart evilly seeks self glorification with your thoughts "I chose to believe in Jesus", and
• your heart evilly redirects glory from God unto man in the eyes of the world - you are a thief, so you are an offense to the ministry of God (2 Corinthians 6:3).

YOU ARE WAY, WAY SPIRITUALLY OFF THE TARGET ABOUT EVE!!!

The devil, the serpent in the creation account, is steeped in deception for the King of Glory says "You are of [your] father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [nature], for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).

You are in the flesh in a state of deception thinking that you are saved from the wrath of God to come.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Before we address your "do as I say, not as I do", I need to address that you broke the thread links again BARNEY BRIGHT, so I'm including this link to post #1052 in this thread to which you replied to maintain thread integrity.

A person writing about a subject does not prevent the person from interjecting about another subject whether related or unrelated to the first subject.

Paul is not a simpleton that you make him out to be with Paul's writing in Philippians 2:1-13.

While Paul wrote about the subject of deference and love among the brethren, Paul interjected about the subject that Jesus existed in the form of God (Philippians 2:6).

For Jesus to exist in the form of God, this means that Jesus is always the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) because there is only One God and no other (Isaiah 45:5).

Notice that I did not write anything about the "equality with God" in the previous five paragraphs. We Christians understand that we are not equal with God - we are the creatures, and Jesus is Creator YHWH God (John 1:1-5).

I addressed your question in your post, now how about you face the questions and answers below which have been presented to you previously.

Did you write "The scriptures at Philippians 2:3-6 says that even though Jesus was in Gods form he never considered himself equal to God"?

Why, as a matter of fact, yes you did, as recorded in post #305 in the "Jesus is God" thread, and you broke your context constraint to try to prove that Jesus is not God.

According to your own measure (Matthew 7:2), BARNEY BRIGHT, you used Philippians 2:3-6 out of context because you restricted the context to "Paul was telling the members in the Philippian congregation to be humble and think others in the Philippian congregation were superior to them" (your scribe in the "Jesus is God" thread - and repeated again in your above quoted post).

Did you know that you are a scribe? You are a scribe because you scribe your posts.

You are a hypocrite (Matthew 23:13) about miscontextual use of Philippians 2:3-6, and Jesus pronounces "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" (Matthew 23:13).

I tell you that you changed Paul's words from being his words into your own antichrist words. Just look for the word "never" in the Philippians 2:3-6. You'll NEVER find the word "never" in an accurate translation.

You are intent on everlasting punishment for yourself (Matthew 25:46) because you deny Jesus (Matthew 10:33). For example, your heart wickedly subtracts that Paul refers to Lord Jesus as truly God in Philippians 2:6.

You can call me all you want Kermos. You have proven to me you will take scripture out of context to prove your belief. You don't have in the true God or his Christ who is his only begotten Son. You don't teach and preach about the true God of the scriptures so you don't preach and teach the Christ of the scriptures. I expect those who are like you to make many derogatory comments about me just as Jesus had many derogatory comments made about him. Those things won't bother me, Jesus said things like that would happen. You and I are going to disagree I'm not going to preach anything different because you disagree with it or make many derogatory comments about me. Like I said all you shown me about you is that you will take scripture out of context to try to prove your belief.

 

[Renniks]

• ["]there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves

• the self willed people think God does not have control over their salvation

If you are correct, there's no reason to pray for people, because some are irresistibly chosen and some are irresistibly Damned, so there's nothing you praying is in any sense causing.

 

[Kermos]

If you are correct, there's no reason to pray for people, because some are irresistibly chosen and some are irresistibly Damned, so there's nothing you praying is in any sense causing.

Again, you demonstrate your lack of Spiritual understanding for Paul wrote "First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity" (1 Timothy 2:1-2).

We, Christians who are secured by God unto God's loving eternal safe keeping, we are guaranteed success in such paryer because we pray according to will of God (Philippians 2:13) in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24).

Back to you for contrast, under your self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) doctrine of free will:

• there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves
• the self willed people daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus by way of such people's thoughts that God does not have control over their salvation
• self willed person's "I chose to believe in Jesus" trumps according to such a one's theology which is based in such a person's self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - in effect, such a daringly self willed one calls the Christ of us Christians a liar
• he self willian's daring thoughts that they can choose Jesus despite Jesus saying "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) translates to the fact that the self willian's do not believe in Him Who says Who He is - He is the One with the characteristic to exclusively choose to save while man lacks the characteristic to choose Jesus per the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19 - includes salvation)

You do not believe in Jesus because your "I chose to believe in Jesus" is based in your self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - YOU ARE NOT EVEN BOUND IN THE TRUE VINE (JOHN 15:1-5).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

I can't control who likes a post or who doesn't.

that alone is a example that God didn't make you do anything.

Wise up take responsibility for your actions

@Renniks joined himself to your confusion delusion in his self will (2 Peter 2:9-10). I never wrote that you control Renniks, yet you wrote your posts in your very own self will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your confusion delusion is based in your self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) doctrine of free will:

• there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves
• the self willed people daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus by way of such people's thoughts that God does not have control over their salvation
• self willed person's "I chose to believe in Jesus" trumps according to such a one's theology which is based in such a person's self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - in effect, such a daringly self willed one calls the Christ of us Christians a liar
• he self willian's daring thoughts that they can choose Jesus despite Jesus saying "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) translates to the fact that the self willian's do not believe in Him Who says Who He is - He is the One with the characteristic to exclusively choose to save while man lacks the characteristic to choose Jesus per the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19 - includes salvation)

You do not believe in Jesus because your "I chose to believe in Jesus" is based in your self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - YOU ARE NOT EVEN BOUND IN THE TRUE VINE (JOHN 15:1-5).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

@Renniks joined himself to your confusion delusion in his self will (2 Peter 2:9-10). I never wrote that you control Renniks, yet you wrote your posts in your very own self will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your confusion delusion is based in your self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) doctrine of free will:

• there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves
• the self willed people daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus by way of such people's thoughts that God does not have control over their salvation
• self willed person's "I chose to believe in Jesus" trumps according to such a one's theology which is based in such a person's self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - in effect, such a daringly self willed one calls the Christ of us Christians a liar
• he self willian's daring thoughts that they can choose Jesus despite Jesus saying "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) translates to the fact that the self willian's do not believe in Him Who says Who He is - He is the One with the characteristic to exclusively choose to save while man lacks the characteristic to choose Jesus per the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19 - includes salvation)

You do not believe in Jesus because your "I chose to believe in Jesus" is based in your self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - YOU ARE NOT EVEN BOUND IN THE TRUE VINE (JOHN 15:1-5).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I thought no human has own self will, your bounching like a yo-yo, one minute man doesn't have free will and another they do.

 

[Renniks]

there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves

No one ever saved themselves. God convicts and God saves. But not by force. They still have a real choice.

 

[Renniks]

You do not believe in Jesus because your "I chose to believe in Jesus" is based in your self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - YOU ARE NOT EVEN BOUND IN THE TRUE VINE (JOHN 15:1-5).

I certainly do believe in Jesus. Who are you to judge my soul?
It certainly is God's will that I believe in him.
It is doing the "work" of God to believe.
Belief isn't a work in the sense of doing something to earn something... it's the condition for salvation.

 

[Kermos]

Wise up take responsibility for your actions

The Blood of Christ atones for my sins. At the cross my Lord Jesus Christ was sacrificed one time for all my promiscuousness, love of money, lies, self idolization, pride, and more. The Word separated me from my crimes against God as far as the East is from the West.

I am a wretch saved by the grace of God alone, and there was nothing I said or did to save myself, and there is nothing more that I can say or do to save myself.

Your spirit preaches a different gospel, that is, your "take responsibility for your actions", yet Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) thus good deeds of Christians are caused by God, so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

Your spirit preaches a different gospel, that is, you must do a work of saying something like "I choose to put my belief in Jesus" to save yourself, yet Jesus says "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) thus fully attributing the Christian's belief to God (see also Ephesians 2:8-10), so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

Your spirit preaches a different gospel based upon your free will "I chose Jesus", that is, man must reject Jesus' sayings (John 12:48) of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) in order to choose Jesus, so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

This post extends post #1125. @Renniks, by way of your like, this post goes for you, too.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

The Blood of Christ atones for my sins. At the cross my Lord Jesus Christ was sacrificed one time for all my promiscuousness, love of money, lies, self idolization, pride, and more. The Word separated me from my crimes against God as far as the East is from the West.

I am a wretch saved by the grace of God alone, and there was nothing I said or did to save myself, and there is nothing more that I can say or do to save myself.

Your spirit preaches a different gospel, that is, your "take responsibility for your actions", yet Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21) thus good deeds of Christians are caused by God, so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

Your spirit preaches a different gospel, that is, you must do a work of saying something like "I choose to put my belief in Jesus" to save yourself, yet Jesus says "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) thus fully attributing the Christian's belief to God (see also Ephesians 2:8-10), so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

Your spirit preaches a different gospel based upon your free will "I chose Jesus", that is, man must reject Jesus' sayings (John 12:48) of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) in order to choose Jesus, so your gospel is no gospel at all (Galatians 1:6-7).

This post extends post #1125. @Renniks, by way of your like, this post goes for you, too.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

Yes indeed he was talking to the eleven and he chose them for special task out of the others more than once. Of course they were already saved before they went and bear fruit. In context his talking to the eleven. Doesn't mean others are not chosen.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

 

[Kermos]

I thought no human has own self will, your bounching like a yo-yo, one minute man doesn't have free will and another they do.

Prior to being saved, everybody has a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

After being saved, everybody has a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

So, no, there is no yo-yo. Look very closely at the posts and you will find that God has me tell you that (1) you do not have a free will, (2) you do have a self will, and (3) we Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God.

You are under your own self will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

Prior to being saved, everybody has a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

After being saved, everybody has a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

So, no, there is no yo-yo. Look very closely at the posts and you will find that God has me tell you that (1) you do not have a free will, (2) you do have a self will, and (3) we Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God.

You are under your own self will (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

John Calvin was a bonafide idiot and the doctrine as well.

 

[Kermos]

Yes indeed he was talking to the eleven and he chose them for special task out of the others more than once. Of course they were already saved before they went and bear fruit. In context his talking to the eleven. Doesn't mean others are not chosen.
John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Indeed, Jesus speaks to all believers in all time when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Behold, the Way (John 14:6).

Lord Jesus exposits to His disciples about the destruction of the wicked as well as the Lord's salvation of the Lord's chosen persons (Mark 13:3-37). During this exposition, He says something powerful with "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) which is a blessed gift of God!

When at various times the Lord Jesus reveals His gifts to His disciples, then He is speaking to all His disciples in all time for He says "What I say to you I say to all, be on the alert!" (Mark 13:37).

Clearly, Lord Jesus is commanding something along the lines that His disciples not be slack about abiding His words; allthemore, His words says it best and most clearly with "What I say to you I say to all. Stay awake!" (Mark 13:37).

Let's look at this wonderful saying of Jesus Christ's some more:

• Word MeaningThe English words "be on the alert" translate from the Greek word γρηγορεῖτε meaning literally "stay awake" with a figurative meaning of be vigilant, responsible, and watchful according to Helps Word Studies on Strong's Greek 1127 γρηγορεύω (grégoreó) to be awake, to watch).
  This means that Lord Jesus' words can be translated as "What I say to you I say to all. Stay awake!" or "What I say to you I say to all: watch.".
  
  This means that the Apostle Paul's words of "knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed" (Romans 13:11. Let us hear the Master declare that it is the work of God that we believers believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
  
  Paul referred to the relationship between salvation and "stay awake".
  
  Both "salvation" and "saved" are the same thing.
  
  So, in a way, Paul related back to Jesus' words in Mark 13:37.
  
  
• The Tribulation Event And God's ChoiceIn the Mark passage where Jesus says "What I say to you I say to all, stay awake" (Mark 13:37), He speaks of the tribulation.
  Speaking of the tribulation, Jesus says "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).
  
  The noun "elect" is a synonym for the noun "chosen", so Jesus unmistakably talks of people being chosen by God for salvation away from the wrath of God with these words of His!
  
  
• All Things Are Spiritual. Spiritual Impacts PhysicalJesus often says things like "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" (Mark 4:9). The account of Jesus powerfully opening the ears of the deaf:32 They brought to Him one who was deaf and spoke with difficulty, and they implored Him to lay His hand on him.
  33 Jesus took him aside from the crowd, by himself, and put His fingers into his ears, and after spitting, He touched his tongue [with the saliva];
  34 and looking up to heaven with a deep sigh, He said to him, "Ephphatha!" that is, "Be opened!"
  35 And his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was removed, and he [began] speaking plainly.
  (Mark 7:32-35, see also Luke 8:8)Jesus illustrates the Spiritual opening of the ears by way of opening the ears physically.
  So, the person who Jesus opens the ear to hear will hear Him command "be on the alert", "stay awake", and "watch" (Mark 13:37).
  
  Even deeper, a person must be alive in Christ to hear Christ Jesus. The dead of the world must be made alive in Christ in order to be in Christ (Romans 6:11), and when a person is alive in Christ such a person hears Christ by Christ's power. The acount of Jesus' impact on the dead man and his widowed mother in the city called Nain is as follows:
  
  11 Soon afterwards He went to a city called Nain; and His disciples were going along with Him, accompanied by a large crowd.
  12 Now as He approached the gate of the city, a dead man was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a sizeable crowd from the city was with her.
  13 When the Lord saw her, He felt compassion for her, and said to her, "Do not weep."
  14 And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, "Young man, I say to you, arise!"
  15 The dead man sat up and began to speak. And [Jesus] gave him back to his mother.
  (Luke 7:11-15)The Apostle Paul wrote:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
  2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
  3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
  4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
  5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
  6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
  7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
  8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
  9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
  10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
  (Ephesians 2:1-10)When Paul wrote that it is God that makes us alive in Christ Jesus ("made us alive together with Christ" and "seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus"), then Paul defered back to Jesus Christ (such as Luke 7:11-15).
  When Paul wrote of faith (a synonym of belief) "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast", then Paul defered back to Jesus Christ (John 6:29).
  
  
• God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the RevealerTo His disciples, Jesus says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest [it is] in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND" (Luke 8:10 - note the relationship to Luke 8:8 mentioned above).
  God is the Grantor for Jesus' disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God.
  
  Greatly rejoicing in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus says "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight" (Luke 10:21).
  
  God hides things from some people, yet God reveals things to other people. The hiding and revealing exposes the reality of God's choice (elect persons, chosen persons). God concealing and revealing is well-pleasing to God!
  
  
• Jesus' Use Of "You" When Speaking Of Spiritual Gifts And Rewards To His Followers

(Continued to post #1134)

 

[Kermos]

(Continued from post #1133)

• The bottom line is that when Lord Jesus speaks of His blessed gifts, then His use of "you" to His disciples means that He says "you" to all His disciples in all time:
  • for the Word of God says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37)!
  • for the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16.
    • God says that God is not chosen by man.
    • God says God chooses man.
    • Chosen by God for inclusion as branches of the Vine (John 15:1-8).
    • Chosen by God as friends of Friend Jesus (John 15:9-15).
    • Chosen by God for appointment unto the blessed works of God (John 15:16, John 3:21, John 15:5).
    • Chosen by God for faith/belief (John 6:29, John 15:5).
  • for the Word of God says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)! He saves ("chose") from the wrath of God ("out of the world"). Chosen by God for salvation!
  All of this is in the Righteous Love that baffles human understanding (John 16:7-14, John 17:22-26).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

John Calvin was a bonafide idiot and the doctrine as well.

Hmm, that's a name I don't recognize from the Bible.

Here's a name from the Bible, Peter the Apostle, and Peter wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

Here's another name from the Bible, Paul the Apostle, and Paul wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again.
Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

BeyondET, you do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

BeyondET, you do have a self will, as described by Peter.

BeyondET, you gleefully separate yourself from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God, as described by Paul.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BeyondET]

Hmm, that's a name I don't recognize from the Bible.

Here's a name from the Bible, Peter the Apostle, and Peter wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

Here's another name from the Bible, Paul the Apostle, and Paul wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again.
Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

BeyondET, you do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

BeyondET, you do have a self will, as described by Peter.

BeyondET, you gleefully separate yourself from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God, as described by Paul.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

John Calvin the doctrine of nonfree will is the doctrine he started, calvinism. Your saying you never heard of it?

 

[BeyondET]

Indeed, Jesus speaks to all believers in all time when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). Behold, the Way (John 14:6).

Lord Jesus exposits to His disciples about the destruction of the wicked as well as the Lord's salvation of the Lord's chosen persons (Mark 13:3-37). During this exposition, He says something powerful with "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37). Lord Jesus explains His deliverance of His own (John 10:27-30) which is a blessed gift of God!

When at various times the Lord Jesus reveals His gifts to His disciples, then He is speaking to all His disciples in all time for He says "What I say to you I say to all, be on the alert!" (Mark 13:37).

Clearly, Lord Jesus is commanding something along the lines that His disciples not be slack about abiding His words; allthemore, His words says it best and most clearly with "What I say to you I say to all. Stay awake!" (Mark 13:37).

Let's look at this wonderful saying of Jesus Christ's some more:

• Word MeaningThe English words "be on the alert" translate from the Greek word γρηγορεῖτε meaning literally "stay awake" with a figurative meaning of be vigilant, responsible, and watchful according to Helps Word Studies on Strong's Greek 1127 γρηγορεύω (grégoreó) to be awake, to watch).
  This means that Lord Jesus' words can be translated as "What I say to you I say to all. Stay awake!" or "What I say to you I say to all: watch.".
  
  This means that the Apostle Paul's words of "knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed" (Romans 13:11. Let us hear the Master declare that it is the work of God that we believers believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
  
  Paul referred to the relationship between salvation and "stay awake".
  
  Both "salvation" and "saved" are the same thing.
  
  So, in a way, Paul related back to Jesus' words in Mark 13:37.
  
  
• The Tribulation Event And God's ChoiceIn the Mark passage where Jesus says "What I say to you I say to all, stay awake" (Mark 13:37), He speaks of the tribulation.
  Speaking of the tribulation, Jesus says "Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).
  
  The noun "elect" is a synonym for the noun "chosen", so Jesus unmistakably talks of people being chosen by God for salvation away from the wrath of God with these words of His!
  
  
• All Things Are Spiritual. Spiritual Impacts PhysicalJesus often says things like "He who has ears to hear, let him hear" (Mark 4:9). The account of Jesus powerfully opening the ears of the deaf:32 They brought to Him one who was deaf and spoke with difficulty, and they implored Him to lay His hand on him.
  33 Jesus took him aside from the crowd, by himself, and put His fingers into his ears, and after spitting, He touched his tongue [with the saliva];
  34 and looking up to heaven with a deep sigh, He said to him, "Ephphatha!" that is, "Be opened!"
  35 And his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was removed, and he [began] speaking plainly.
  (Mark 7:32-35, see also Luke 8:8)Jesus illustrates the Spiritual opening of the ears by way of opening the ears physically.
  So, the person who Jesus opens the ear to hear will hear Him command "be on the alert", "stay awake", and "watch" (Mark 13:37).
  
  Even deeper, a person must be alive in Christ to hear Christ Jesus. The dead of the world must be made alive in Christ in order to be in Christ (Romans 6:11), and when a person is alive in Christ such a person hears Christ by Christ's power. The acount of Jesus' impact on the dead man and his widowed mother in the city called Nain is as follows:
  
  11 Soon afterwards He went to a city called Nain; and His disciples were going along with Him, accompanied by a large crowd.
  12 Now as He approached the gate of the city, a dead man was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a sizeable crowd from the city was with her.
  13 When the Lord saw her, He felt compassion for her, and said to her, "Do not weep."
  14 And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, "Young man, I say to you, arise!"
  15 The dead man sat up and began to speak. And [Jesus] gave him back to his mother.
  (Luke 7:11-15)The Apostle Paul wrote:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
  2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
  3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
  4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
  5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
  6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
  7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
  8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
  9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
  10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
  (Ephesians 2:1-10)When Paul wrote that it is God that makes us alive in Christ Jesus ("made us alive together with Christ" and "seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus"), then Paul defered back to Jesus Christ (such as Luke 7:11-15).
  When Paul wrote of faith (a synonym of belief) "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast", then Paul defered back to Jesus Christ (John 6:29).
  
  
• God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the RevealerTo His disciples, Jesus says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest [it is] in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND" (Luke 8:10 - note the relationship to Luke 8:8 mentioned above).
  God is the Grantor for Jesus' disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God.
  
  Greatly rejoicing in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus says "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight" (Luke 10:21).
  
  God hides things from some people, yet God reveals things to other people. The hiding and revealing exposes the reality of God's choice (elect persons, chosen persons). God concealing and revealing is well-pleasing to God!
  
  
• Jesus' Use Of "You" When Speaking Of Spiritual Gifts And Rewards To His Followers

(Continued to post #1134)

You missed the point, he had chosen those 11 for a certain purpose, has nothing to do with being chosen for salvation that's not even in context but some try to squeeze it in.

 

[Renniks]

Clearly, Lord Jesus is commanding something along the lines that His disciples not be slack about abiding His words; allthemore, His words says it best and most clearly with "What I say to you I say to all. Stay awake!" (Mark 13:37).

Why would Jesus say that if we have no freedom to do anything?
That's like saying "wake up" to a dead man.

 

[Kermos]

John Calvin the doctrine of nonfree will is the doctrine he started, calvinism. Your saying you never heard of it?

Hmm, that's still a name I don't recognize from the Bible.

Here's a name from the Bible, Peter the Apostle, and Peter wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

Here's another name from the Bible, Paul the Apostle, and Paul wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again.
Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

BeyondET, you do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

BeyondET, you do have a self will, as described by Peter.

BeyondET, you gleefully separate yourself from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God, as described by Paul.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Can't exist in your reality. If there's no free will, there's only God's will.

Renniks, you really need to read the Bible.

Peter the Apostle wrote that prior to being saved, people have a self will that brings the subject under damnation with the devil according to the Apostle Peter (2 Peter 2:2-9).

Paul the Apostle wrote that after being saved, people have a will that is bound under the loving control of God according to the Apostle Paul (Philippians 2:13).

Here's Paul from the Bible, again.
Overall, Paul uses free will as illusory instead of concrete in Philemon 1:14.- and this is the only occurrence of "free will" that I am aware of in the New American Standard Bible New Testament.

Renniks, you do not have a free will, as described by Paul.

Renniks, you do have a self will, as described by Peter.

Renniks, you gleefully separate yourself from God's will and the Christ of us Christians Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation). We Christians in God's Spirit have a will bound in joy and love to God, as described by Paul.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.