Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @n2thelight

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22 must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Presenting an event driven review of Paul's writing "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:20-22) and the creation account and more recorded in Genesis:

• See "until now" (Romans 8:22) indicates all time prior to the Apostle Paul for he wrote "the whole creation" (Romans 8:22), as in "the whole creation" "until now".
• See the serpent was in the garden tempting Eve (Genesis 3:1-5) before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).
• See "subjected to futility" (Romans 8:20) as the serpent's futility of lying to Eve with "You surely will not die" (Genesis 3:4) - before Adam or Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), yet Adam and Eve died (Genesis 5:5, Genesis 7:21 none of mankind, besides the 8 [Genesis 7:7 and 1 Peter 3:20], survived the flood, so Eve had to be dead).
• See "not willingly" (Romans 8:20) applies to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6) for the Word of God specifically attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Paul includes the "not willingly" (Romans 8:20-22) to apply to the time that Adam ate of the tree (Genesis 3:6).

 

[Renniks]

What is the advantage of believing everything is determined for you and you're just a robot?

 

[BeyondET]

For your clarity, the response that God had me make to you in the below has "you" equal to "BeyondET" and "you" also includes "Renniks" (who liked your post).



You write foolish things. For example, selfish means serving oneself - even at the expense of other people.

Your selfish definition "selfish, that's all about choosing to listen to another and not God" is a LIE and @Renniks likes your DECEPTION.

"Selfish" describes a state of being.

Adam's selfishness is who Adam was - not him choosing. Behold "choosing" is absent from the Genesis account of the creation.

I do say that you, BeyondET and Renniks, have self will, and the Apostle Peter wrote of your self will with "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in [its] corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Believers are joyfully blessed to have the will controlled by God for the Apostle Paul wrote that a believers will and a believers work is the work of God in the believer with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

I can't control who likes a post or who doesn't.
that alone is a example that God didn't make you do anything.

Wise up take responsibility for your actions

 

[Taken]

@Enoch111 @Taken @Renniks @GISMYS_7 @Backlit @Riverwalker @BARNEY BRIGHT @TLHKAJ @HisLife @Ronald Nolette @post @Wynona @Iconoclast @CharismaticLady @MatthewG @Abaxvahl @BeyondET @n2thelight

Man's "Will" In Scripture Related To The Creation Account

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

You are misdirecting “Not willingly”.
God created AND (then) made manKIND.
Man created ... by mans will? No, Gods Will.
Man made ..... by mans will? No, Gods Will.
Man made ..... For mans pleasure? No, For Gods Pleasure.
Man made ..... With Gods Will to reproduce? Yes
Man made ..... With Gods Will? No, with mans own Vanity.

Without mans OWN WILL, (not willingly), is notifying you, manKIND had NO SAY SO, in Deciding manKIND, WAS MADE;
* Having the capability to REPRODUCE OFFSPRING.
* Having the capability to MAKE HIS OWN CHOICES.

IOW - it is telling you the complete Opposite of what you are saying.

WITHOUT mans WILL, God MADE man TO Reproduce. (Men and Woman who do NOT want to reproduce...abstain from sex, wear condoms, take a pill, abort, commit suicide, etc.)

WITHOUT mans WILL, God MADE man TO HAVE HIS OWN WILL TO CHOOSE, that which is IN agreement With God, OR that which is NOT IN agreement With God.....which God Called mans VAINTY.

The subject to VANITY, is precisely Mans Ability to CHOOSE, which IS FREEWILL, which IS precisely How God “DECIDED” to MADE mankind.

Inanutshell.....God Reveals HIS ORDER and HIS WAY, HIS Preference FOR men TO Freely Choose, AND men CAN choose HIS WAY, or choose Their OWN WAY.

Nothing NEW. God has Revealed His WAY, since the beginning. Do this, Do that, Don’t Do this, Don’t Do that.....AND?

To Adam....Do eat of Every Tree in the Garden.
To Adam....DO NOT eat of the Tree of Good and Evil.

The Woman TOOK FROM the Tree.
The Woman OFFERED the Fruit she TOOK to the man.
The Man TOOK FROM the Woman the Fruit of the Forbidden Tree.
The Woman TOOK and Ate.
The Man TOOK and Ate.

The Woman’s TAKING, was the woman exercising her Freewill.
The Man’s TAKING, was the man exercising his Freewill.

The Woman Was punished For the Choice she made.
The Man Was punished For the Choice he made.

It’s a foreshadow LESSON to ALL of mankind.
God teaches a WAY that is Good and Profitable To & For ALL manKind.
ManKind can FREELY obey Gods Teaching, OR Freely Choose their OWN WAY.

Knowing Gods WAY, and Choosing to NOT obey Gods Way, HAS Negative Consequences. The Primary Negative Consequence IS:
God IS NOT WITH that individual.
* The LESSON IS: God NOT WITH an individual, IS THAT individual WILL suffer, at the hands of; Powerful Evil spirits and power positioned Wicked men.

Not a secret. Evil Spirits roam the earth, Are more powerful than manKind. Evil Spirit Search out the Weakest men, whom God IS NOT WITH, to convince them NOT being WITH God, is good.

Not a secret. Men sit in power seats Over other men. Kings, Presidents, Chairman, Military, Police, Teachers, Priests, Heads Of Households, etc.
Power sitting men exercising their OWN Freewill can BE Upright OR Wicked as they Exercise their authority and power OVER other men.

Not a secret. MANY MEN, have Exercised their own Freewill TO NOT BE WITH God, and NOT A SECRET... A man NOT WITH GOD, IN TURN, God IS NOT WITH that man.

* Read the HISTORICAL Scriptural Accounts...
Hebrews WITH God, God WITH the Hebrews.
Hebrews WITHOUT God, God WITHOUT the Hebrews.
Tribes of Israel, Same effect.
Gentiles, Same effect.

* WITH God, WITHOUT God, WITH God, WITHOUT God...
God WITH a man, God WITHOUT a man, God WITH a man, etc.

GEE.......IF ONLY? IF ONLY, a man COULD FREELY CHOOSE to HAVE GOD WITH him...24-7 FOREVER....

* HOW could that BE POSSIBLE? HOW since manKind is so wishy washy, changing his MIND from moment to moment, from day to day?

* How could that BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU @Kermos ???
Since YOU, apparently DO NOT HAVE FREEWILL TO MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

If moses would of obeyed God and he did not hit the Rock ! and instead prayed our future would of been different . It shows humans are fallible and make mistakes but still our actions that make predestination into our future can change by error ! If you could change your past what could it be ? Barney tell me ? If something you cna change you disobey God what would it be ? Know the smallest things can have A huge impact in our lifes ?


all decisions matter barney and the future of Israel was changed did God let it happen ? Barney God can rewind and fix it and he did not ! He is God we are not but still he left it like it is because he let life continue and doesn't come out like we want it.

We are saved by him and regenerated but we must be the ones who ask G-d for his forgivness and mercy he will give it we cannot be saved by our own efforts only G-d's.

You Kermos who posted and I remember your posts said one thing and then said the opposite then you erased because fo your error if you had no error and chance to repent you do not have freewill to ask fo it from God. I remember Kermos you act so higlhy but you have contradicted yourself many times young man but you ahve freedom to choose your future awlays and can change it.

You failed to cite the Word of God in your as quoted posts. You preach random generalizations but no specifics, and you preach extrabiblical man-made stuff that is your thoughts.

Your as quoted posts are a whole lot of useless “word of @grumix8”, which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another 3 posts on page 53 with the “word of grumix8”, and not one scripture quotation to support freewill (just like this post shows a similar post on page 53 which has a predecessor this post shows a similar posts on page 52
which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 52 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar post on page 52 which has a predecessorthis post shows one more similar posts on page 50 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 46 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 45 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) as well as “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) – Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word” (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God’s! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God’s (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares YHWH. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.’” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is foolishly evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

 

[Kermos]

Gen 3:

[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

[18] Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.




Preposterous!

The woman reached out her hand and FREELY TOOK the fruit & ate.

The woman offered out the fruit to her husband And Adam reached out his hand and FREELY TOOK the fruit & ate.


NO ONE Forced the Fruit IN the woman’s or the man’s HAND or MOUTH.


The man AND the woman EACH of their OWN WILL FREELY (without ANYTHING STOPPING THEM)

reached OUT, TOOK and ATE the fruit.





Paul says NO SUCH THING!


Romans 8:

[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope...


Paul’s TEACHING is about THE VANITY of the NATURAL MAN, Exercising HIS OWN FREEWILL OF CHOICES ...... OVER and ABOVE the WORD of God!

And “IF” you continued Studying PAUL’S Preaching; His PREACHING IS EXPRESSLY ABOUT HOW the natural man CAN USE HIS OWN FREE WILL, TO CHOOSE Gods SPIRITUAL WAY over and above MANS Natural Way, and the Highly Favorable RESULTS FOR A man!

Taken, you add freewill to scripture and you subtract God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man from scripture. Let's look at examples based on your quoted post above.

You cited Genesis 3:6. In Genesis 3:6, nothing, absolutely NOTHING states that the woman "FREELY TOOK the fruit & ate" (the word of Taken); on the other hand, you wickedly add your word into the passage.

You cited Genesis 3:17. In Genesis 3:17, the Word of God specifically and literally attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

In Genesis 3:17-19, nothing, absolutely NOTHING states that "Adam reached out his hand and FREELY TOOK the fruit & ate" (the word of Taken); on the other hand, you wickedly add your word into the passage resulting in your heart's treasure being the word of Taken and not the Word of God.

You cited Romans 8:20. In Romans 8:20, Paul specifically and literally wrote that no "will" in Adam was involved in making Adam subject to vanity.

In Romans 8:20, nothing, absolutely NOTHING states that Adam exercised "HIS OWN FREEWILL OF CHOICES" (the word of Taken); on the other hand, you wickedly add your word into Paul's writing resulting in your heart's treasure being the opposite of Paul's writing.

By the way, Taken, the Hebrew word "free" is absent in Genesis 2:16-17, so freely is a translational error in some English translations of God’s command to Adam (as shown in post #1045 in this thread), so you cannot use the English translations "freely" as support for your wicked thoughts.

You act like your mother, Eve, who adulterated the Word of God (Genesis 3:3).

You made a series of four posts, and your first post is shown to be a very ungodly representation of your heart's thoughts.

Your first post is rampant with you adding to and subtracting from scripture that I'm skipping your next 3 posts, at least for the time being.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Behold]

-
God has freewill.
Christ has freewill.

Man was made in their image/likeness.

Result? = Man has free will.

Reader..

The reason you can't stand at the Great White Throne, just before God sends you out of heaven because you are a Christ Rejector....and argue...>"But GOD......LISTEN !!!! you would not cause me to believe, you chose me not to believe...so, how can you now blame me for rejecting Christ, when you caused it....and send me to Hell..""""

See that ?
THAT CAN'T BE.

A.) John Calvin is a Demonice Bible Twisting Liar.
B.) Hyper Calvinism is of the Devil.
C.) Pre-Destined Elect Theology is a "doctrine of devils'. Hebrews 13:9

 

[Kermos]

Hi @Taken I think it can be said that one's will is truly free once one has been 'quickened' - made alive (Ephesians 2), after having been 'dead in trespasses and sins'.

The Apostle Paul wrote that a believers will and a believers work is the work of God in the believer with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

The original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Taken]

Taken, you add freewill to scripture and you subtract God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man from scripture. Let's look at examples based on your quoted post above.

FREEWILL is the understanding, MEN MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES!
Seriously, Do you have to SEE and READ the WORD FREEWILL to Understand, God gives men OPTIONS...
DO this, or DO that?
Don’t DO this, or Don’t DO that?

Beyond laughable.
I am picturing you in a restaurant looking over a menu, and waiting for the waitress to return and TELL YOU WHAT FOOD she will CHOOSE FOR YOU BECAUSE, you can not BY YOUR OWN WILL Freely Choose what you want to eat.....

You cited Genesis 3:17. In Genesis 3:17, the Word of God specifically and literally attributed the cause of Adam eating of the tree as "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17), so here God reveals for Adam the cause (listen to wife) and the effect (eat of tree); therefore, eating of the tree was "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

In Genesis 3:17-19, nothing, absolutely NOTHING states that "Adam reached out his hand and FREELY TOOK the fruit & ate" (the word of Taken); on the other hand, you wickedly add your word into the passage resulting in your heart's treasure being the word of Taken and not the Word of God.

LOL - Such a basic concept. The woman OFFERED Adam to eat of the Fruit she took from the tree. By your teaching, the Woman must have FREELY CHOSEN TO OPEN ADAMS MOUTH AND STUFF the FRUIT IN HIS MOUTH, MOVE HIS JAWS TO CHEW THE FRUIT, AND HELD HIS MOUTH SHUT UNTIL HE SWALLOWED THE FRUIT....
LOL - The woman freely chose to Offer the Fruit she took from the tree, and IF ADAM didn’t freely TAKE IT from the Woman....HOW DID ADAM RECEIVE and EAT the Fruit?
WHO EXACTLY MADE ADAM EAT THE FRUIT?

You cited Romans 8:20. In Romans 8:20, Paul specifically and literally wrote that no "will" in Adam was involved in making Adam subject to vanity.

No kidding! Did God MAKE ALL MEN WITHOUT CHOICES, and thus ALL MEN CAN DO NOTHING BUT OBEY God?

In Romans 8:20, nothing, absolutely NOTHING states that Adam exercised "HIS OWN FREEWILL OF CHOICES" (the word of Taken); on the other hand, you wickedly add your word into Paul's writing resulting in your heart's treasure being the opposite of Paul's writing.

You present the most asinine argument, defense and accusations I have EVER heard.

Obviously YOU, are waiting around for the Lord God TO FORCE His Gift of Salvation ON YOU....Since you are incapable BY YOUR OWN FREEWILL to TAKE His Offering.

 

[Renniks]

The Apostle Paul wrote that a believers will and a believers work is the work of God in the believer with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

The original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

So does God work as much as he would prefer to in a believers life? Or does a believers willingness play into how much God can use him?
Let's see: Jesus said:


34 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Well how can this be? Jesus wants to do something but can't because people aren't willing?

39 vYou search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and wit is they that bear witness about me, xyou refuse to come to me that you may have life. yI do not receive glory from people. zI know that you do not have athe love of God within you. bin my Father’s name, and cyou do not receive me. dIf another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

Oh my! What in the world is Jesus complaining about?
People refusing to come to him? People refusing to receive him? How is this possible? Kerme must be right, right? Jesus must be wrong, then, I guess?

 

[Taken]

@Renniks Have you EVER heard anything so ridiculous?

Hey Adam don’t eat from this tree....
Poor Adam with no Freewill...couldn’t eat of that fruit...
Uh, uh, oops Poor Adam with no Freewill...Freely Chose to Eat.
Who thinks and then reasons such nonsense, and THEN tries to DEBATE
Adam did not freely choose to eat of that tree?
Oh...Hey Adam name the animals.
I can not Freely Choose names for them....
Oh...Hey Adam What are you doing naming the woman Eve?
Who said you have FREEWILL to choose a name for the woman?
Oh....Hey Choose whom you shall serve....
uh...poor “no freewill” @Kermos

 

[Renniks]

@Renniks Have you EVER heard anything so ridiculous?

Hey Adam don’t eat from this tree....
Poor Adam with no Freewill...couldn’t eat of that fruit...
Uh, uh, oops Poor Adam with no Freewill...Freely Chose to Eat.
Who thinks and then reasons such nonsense, and THEN tries to DEBATE
Adam did not freely choose to eat of that tree?
Oh...Hey Adam name the animals.
I can not Freely Choose names for them....
Oh...Hey Adam What are you doing naming the woman Eve?
Who said you have FREEWILL to choose a name for the woman?
Oh....Hey Choose whom you shall serve....
uh...poor “no freewill” @Kermos

I'm not sure if Kermit is even a real person. I'm starting to think he's a computer generated calvinist.
He reminds me of something that would be invented by the other side as a spoof, he's so extreme with his contradictions.

 

[Taken]

I'm not sure if Kermit is even a real person. I'm starting to think he's a computer generated calvinist.
He reminds me of something that would be invented by the other side as a spoof, he's so extreme with his contradictions.

There are a couple of “Kermit’s” on this forum, but this is Kermos. Easy to mix up. Not sure how he makes it through the day without making choices. Very strange.

 

[Kermos]

Adam and Eve were made in God’s image, according to His likeness, man is a free moral agent, which means all human beings have this free will. Human beings have the freedom of choice to do good or bad. By human beings willingly, lovingly obeying their Creator, they are in a position to bring honor and glory to God far beyond that which the animal creation could bring. Human beings can intelligently praise God for His wonderful qualities and could support His sovereignty. But human beings freedom is a relative freedom; it's not absolute. Human beings could continue to live in happiness only if they acknowledged YHWH God(Jehovah) sovereignty. This was indicated by the tree of knowledge of good and bad, from which Adam was forbidden to eat. Eating of it would be an act of disobedience, a rebellion against God’s sovereignty.(Genesis 2:9, 16, 17)

Since Adam was a “son of God” (Luke 3:38), his relationship to God was that of a son to a father, and he should have obeyed accordingly. Additionally, God created in man an innate desire to render worship. This desire, if perverted, would take man in the wrong direction and would destroy his freedom, bringing him into bondage to what was created instead of to the Creator. This, in turn, would result in man’s degradation.

A rebellious spirit son of God caused Adam’s wife Eve to sin, and she placed the temptation before Adam, who deliberately entered into rebellion against YHWH God (Jehovah) (Genesis 3:1-6; 1Timothy 2:13, 14) They became like those whom Paul later described in Romans 1:20-23. By his transgression Adam lost his sonship and perfection and he introduced sin, with imperfection and death, to his offspring, the entire human race. Even at birth, they were in the image of their father Adam, imperfect, with death working in their bodies.(Genesis 3:17-19; Romans 5:12)

When creating the first human, Adam, God gave him the same gift he had given his intelligent creatures in heaven, the gift of free will. This set Adam apart from the animals, since they live according to instinct. Consider an example of how Adam used his free will in an appropriate way. Animals were created before man. However, YHWH God(Jehovah) reserved the joy of naming those creatures for his first human son. God “began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one.” After Adam observed each animal and assigned it a suitable name, YHWH God(Jehovah) did not step in and override Adam’s choices. Rather, “whatever the man would call each living creature, that became its name.”(Genesis 2:19)

Regrettably, Adam was not content with his God-given assignment as cultivator and caretaker of the earthly paradise. He was not satisfied with his extensive freedom to carry out his God-given mandate: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish . . . , the flying creatures . . . , and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” (Genesis 1:28) Instead, he chose to overstep his God-ordained boundaries by eating the forbidden fruit. This gross misuse of free will resulted in millenniums of suffering and pain for Adam’s descendants. (Romans 5:12) Knowing the consequences of Adam’s decision should move us to use our freedom responsibly and within the limits set by YHWH God(Jehovah)

So human beings were by no means preprogrammed to please God, like some sort of robot. Think about it. Which would mean more to you, a gift that is given mechanically or one that comes from the heart? The answer is obvious. Likewise, if Adam and Eve had freely chosen to obey God, their obedience would have meant all the more to him. The capacity to choose enabled the first human pair to obey YHWH God(Jehovah) out of love.(Deuteronomy 30:19, 20)

So the first human couple differed from all other creations on earth. They resembled their Creator, able to reflect a godlike attitude in reasoning, in demonstrating love, justice, wisdom, and power. They had the faculty of conscience to help them reach decisions that would benefit themselves and please their heavenly Parent. (Romans 2:15) In short, Adam and Eve had free will. Observing the makeup of his earthly human couple YHWH God (Jehovah) made this assessment of his handiwork: “Look! it [is] very good.”(Genesis 1:31; Psalm 95:6)

No one will convince me that all our thoughts and actions are dictated to us without ever having a choice in anything. However this gift of free will isn't be used without limits. In directions given to early Christians, God’s Word tells us: “Be as free people, and yet holding your freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God.” (1 Peter 2:16) For the common good, there must be boundaries. So free will is to be regulated by the rule of law. Otherwise, anarchy would result.

Since God created humans, he knows best what laws they need to obey for their own good and for the good of others. The Bible puts it this way: “I, YHWH(Jehovah), am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk.”(Isaiah 48:17)

Clearly, a vital point is this: Humans were not created to be independent of God. He made them in such a way that their success and happiness depend on obedience to his righteous laws. God’s prophet Jeremiah said: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”(Jeremiah 10:23)

God made mankind subject to his physical laws, such as the law of gravity. Similarly, he made humans to be subject to his moral laws, which are designed to result in a harmonious society. For good reason, then, God’s Word urges: “Trust in YHWH(Jehovah) with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding.”(Proverbs 3:5)

So the human family could never be successful in regulating itself without God’s rulership. Trying to be independent from him, people would devise social, economic, political, and religious systems that would conflict with one another, and ‘man would dominate man to his injury.’(Ecclesiastes 8:9)

God gave our first parents, Adam and Eve, a perfect start. They had perfect bodies and minds and a paradise garden for a home. If they had submitted to God’s rule, they would have remained perfect and happy. In time, they would have been the parents of an entire perfect, happy human family living on a paradise earth. That was God’s purpose for the human race.(Genesis 1:27-29; 2:15)

When the first human couple misused their free will they wrongly thought that they could be successful independent of God. Of their own free will, they stepped outside the boundaries of his laws. (Genesis, chapter 3) Because they rejected his rulership, he no longer was obligated to sustain them in perfection. ‘They acted ruinously on their own part, did not remain his children, and the defect was their own.’(Deuteronomy 32:5)

From the time they disobeyed God, Adam and Eve began to degenerate in body and mind. With YHWH(Jehovah) is the source of life. (Psalm 36:9) So because of cutting themselves off from YHWH(Jehovah) the first human couple became imperfect and eventually died. (Genesis 3:19) Consistent with laws of genetic inheritance, their offspring could receive only what their parents themselves possessed. And what was that? It was imperfection and death. The apostle Paul therefore wrote: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”(Romans 5:12)

In your very first sentence, you added to the Word of God.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, a free moral agent; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” (the word of BARNEY BRIGHT)

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” (Genesis 1:26)

You wickedly adulterate the Word of God, so the words you present are not the Word of God, but the evil word of BARNEY BRIGHT.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Kermode said,
In your very first sentence, you added to the Word of God.[/QUOTE\]

All I see is, that you twist what someone says. I didn't quote any scripture, so I didn't add to any scripture. What you don't like is that I reasoned on a particular scripture. Specifically Genesis 1:26.

 

[Taken]

In your very first sentence, you added to the Word of God.

People ADD meanings when Posting Scriptures, to People like you, BECAUSE, of your failure to Understand.

God CREATED a terrestrial (earthly) thing, God called A MAN, A FORM, A BODY.

God DID NOT, IMPART, a heart, organs, brain, blood, tissue, IN a BODY, HE CREATED, it!

God DID NOT, IMPART, thoughts, into the brain.
God CREATED, the BODY.

God CREATED the BODY, WITH THE ABILITY, of it brain to absorb knowledge, to think, to act, to move, to walk, to sit, to recline, to choose, to reject, to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, to speak, it’s heart to beat, it’s blood to flow, it’s nerves to react, it’s eyes to blink, it’s skin to feel touch, to feel hunger, to eat, it’s gut to digest, it’s anus to expel waste, on an on Wonderfully Created!

God MADE the BODY, WITH GODS BREATH, God BLOWS (IMPARTS) INTO the Nostrils of a Body’s Nose, TO CAUSE the CREATED BODY TO BEGIN (LIVING ITS OWN INDEPENDENT LIFE) FUNCTIONING.

Gods BREATH blown IN (imparted) A MAN, IS A SOUL,
(Gods Breath, and ALL souls BELONG TO GOD).
Gods BREATH blown IN a man, IS A SOUL, AND ONCE IN A MAN:
* That mans CREATED BODY becomes MADE Alive, Living.
* That mans CREATED BODY and SOUL...ARE BOTH CALLED by that mans NAME.

THAT MAN...has TWO “THOUGHT” sources “IN” His body.
* A brain, called the Carnal Mind. It receives knowledge, processes the knowledge, decides to BELIEVE the Knowledge OR NOT.
(It’s a process CALLED “LOGICAL” Conclusion)
* Logic IS having received several pieces of KNOWLEDGE, and choosing WHICH piece of KNOWLEDGE “TO Believe” and WHICH piece of KNOWLEDGE “TO Reject”.
* Every individual WITH a functioning BRAIN; (Carnal MIND), can Become aware of any KNOWLEDGE, and FREELY CHOOSE TO BELIEVE the KNOWLEDGE OR NOT...<— NOT a phenomenon...it applies to everyone...and is CALLED that person Exercising his OWN Will Freely, to BELIEVE or REJECT whatever he chooses....which IS FREEWILL!

Adam was NOT GIVEN “imparted” FREEWILL.
Adam was CREATED with a Brain, A Carnal MIND, WITH THE ABILITY TO THINK, Freely Decide, Freely Choose to Believe, and Freely Choose to Do as his OWN WILL, Freely Decided.

** ONCE ADAM WAS independently MADE alive...(via Gods BREATH) Adams BODILY Functions BEGAN FUNCTIONING!
* Uh, ding, ding, ding......His OWN brain, Carnal Mind, THOUGHT, CHOSE, DID as Adam’s OWN FREEWILL Decided.

* Adam heard and listened to God.
* Adam chose a name for the woman.
* Adam chose names for animals.
* Adam chose to walk about in the garden.
* Adam chose to eat the fruit the woman took from the tree.
* Adam chose to make an apron of fig leaves.
* Adam chose to cover his flesh with the apron.
* Adam chose to hide from God.
* Adam chose to respond to God when God called to him.
* Adam chose to answer God truthfully about what he ate.
* Adam chose to Not eat of the Tree of Life.

Seriously....YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO ARGUE man DOES NOT HAVE “FREEWILL”....man IS NOT created with FREEWILL?

YET, Scripture CLEARLY reveals ADAM FREELY Deciding and Doing,
BY, through, of, his OWN freewill.

Astounding!

 

[Kermos]

How can something that is so obvious, turn into such Theological confusion.

Oh, thats right....There is a DEVIL, and he is "the author of Confusion".

One of his darkest lights was John Calvin



So, if you are wondering if Adam had free will.....if Eve had free will..


#2.... Didn't the "Serpent", the Devil convince Eve to take the Apple? So, if she had no free will, could she be "CONVINCED"?

Hello?

Anyone able to think?......I think you can.


#1... "let us (God said) Create "man", in OUR IMAGE"..


So, does GOD and Pre-INcarnate CHRIST have Free will?

Yes?

Of course, and if they have it, then as they Created ADAM in Their LIKENESS (Image), He had it.


C'mon.

Just = THINK, and the Calvinism Deception becomes very CLEAR.

Neither "convinced" nor "believed" occur in the creation account (the word "convinced" is nearly synonymous with "believed") - nor do they appear anywhere else in Scripture in relation to Eve.

Eve was deceived, not convinced, for Paul wrote of Eve "the woman, having been deceived, has come into transgression" (1 Timothy 2:14).

Eve was in the flesh because Adam said "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man" (Genesis 2:23).

Deception is a state of being for people in the flesh, and the flesh is against God for Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17), so this means that "those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:8).

Eve was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26), and God created Eve without her knowing good and evil, yet God knew what good and evil was when God created Eve, so Eve was not created with all of God's attributes.

God willpowering purported "free will" into Eve, specifically a free will into Eve in the likeness God's will, during the creation of Eve means that Eve could not have used free will to perform evil against God because God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4); THEREFORE, it follows that Eve could not use such a free will in order to perform evil against God. This sounds a lot like Romans 8:20 as shown in post #1101 in this thread.

"I, YHWH your God, am a jealous God" (Exodus 20:5) says the Word of God, and the Word of God says "I will not give My glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8), so God jealously reserves the glory for man's salvation to God alone (John 3:3-8, John 3:21, John 6:29).

Man in man's flesh jealously glorifies the man, and it is here that we find a corollary attribute between Eve and God - see that Eve jealously engaged in self glorification.

God converts man (Matthew 18:3) for thus says the Lord "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so then man seeks God’s glory just as Jesus exemplifies to us Christians (John 6:38).

Your deceptions listed

• your heart evilly adds "convinced"/"believed" into the creation account,
• your heart evilly thinks the flesh is capable of pleasing God,
• your heart evilly pits your purported God-like "free-will" for Eve against God,
• your heart evilly seeks self glorification with your thoughts "I chose to believe in Jesus", and
• your heart evilly redirects glory from God unto man in the eyes of the world - you are a thief, so you are an offense to the ministry of God (2 Corinthians 6:3).

YOU ARE WAY, WAY SPIRITUALLY OFF THE TARGET ABOUT EVE!!!

The devil, the serpent in the creation account, is steeped in deception for the King of Glory says "You are of [your] father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [nature], for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).

You are in the flesh in a state of deception thinking that you are saved from the wrath of God to come.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

God using his Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write at Philippians 2:3-6. First Paul tells the Philippian members of the Philippian congregation at verses 3&4 "Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others."

Here the apostle Paul is clearly telling the members of the Philippian congregation to consider others in the congregation as superior to them. In other words I, as a Christian, am to have this mental attitude that another Christian is superior to me and that Christian is to have the mental attitude that I am superior to him/her. With this kind of geniune mental attitude going on within the congregation then there would be no disagreements or arguments in the congregation, there would not be those who would be prideful there would be no braggarts in the congregation.


Then at verse 5 Paul writes, "Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus."

So here in verse five the apostle Paul is directing the Philippian congregation members to have the same mental attitude that was in Jesus Christ. So tell me kermos, this mental attitude that the Philippian congregation members was to be in them which was also in Christ Jesus, was it suppose to be a mental attitude that congregation members were to think themselves to be equal to God? I don't think so!


Paul then writes Philippians 2:6, "who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Jesus Christ mental attitude wasn't that he thought himself equal to God, but that even though he was in God's form he never considered himself equal to God. That humble attitude which Jesus Christ has, that he thought God as superior to him is the mental attitude he had. Jesus Christ is the greatest example of humility and we are to follow that great example of humility.


You can call me whatever you want kermos. I know that the Trinitarians trying to prove by using Philippians 2:6 that Jesus is equal to God isn't true. Philippians 2:6 isn't saying Jesus Christ thought himself equal with God, but instead Jesus Christ thought God superior to him.

Before we address your "do as I say, not as I do", I need to address that you broke the thread links again BARNEY BRIGHT, so I'm including this link to post #1052 in this thread to which you replied to maintain thread integrity.

A person writing about a subject does not prevent the person from interjecting about another subject whether related or unrelated to the first subject.

Paul is not a simpleton that you make him out to be with Paul's writing in Philippians 2:1-13.

While Paul wrote about the subject of deference and love among the brethren, Paul interjected about the subject that Jesus existed in the form of God (Philippians 2:6).

For Jesus to exist in the form of God, this means that Jesus is always the One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4) because there is only One God and no other (Isaiah 45:5).

Notice that I did not write anything about the "equality with God" in the previous five paragraphs. We Christians understand that we are not equal with God - we are the creatures, and Jesus is Creator YHWH God (John 1:1-5).

I addressed your question in your post, now how about you face the questions and answers below which have been presented to you previously.

Did you write "The scriptures at Philippians 2:3-6 says that even though Jesus was in Gods form he never considered himself equal to God"?

Why, as a matter of fact, yes you did, as recorded in post #305 in the "Jesus is God" thread, and you broke your context constraint to try to prove that Jesus is not God.

According to your own measure (Matthew 7:2), BARNEY BRIGHT, you used Philippians 2:3-6 out of context because you restricted the context to "Paul was telling the members in the Philippian congregation to be humble and think others in the Philippian congregation were superior to them" (your scribe in the "Jesus is God" thread - and repeated again in your above quoted post).

Did you know that you are a scribe? You are a scribe because you scribe your posts.

You are a hypocrite (Matthew 23:13) about miscontextual use of Philippians 2:3-6, and Jesus pronounces "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" (Matthew 23:13).

I tell you that you changed Paul's words from being his words into your own antichrist words. Just look for the word "never" in the Philippians 2:3-6. You'll NEVER find the word "never" in an accurate translation.

You are intent on everlasting punishment for yourself (Matthew 25:46) because you deny Jesus (Matthew 10:33). For example, your heart wickedly subtracts that Paul refers to Lord Jesus as truly God in Philippians 2:6.

 

[Kermos]

The funny thing about people that oppose so-called free willers is that if they are correct, there is no reason to oppose them. If I have no free will, then whatever I believe isn't me believing it in any sense whatsoever... It's actually God causing me to believe it. So arguing with us is completely pointless. We are going to believe whatever God causes us to believe regardless of any words you spew, and of course that makes your words just fizz in a bottle too, things that you have no control over, and in fact if you had no free will whatsoever it wouldn't even be you saying them.

Under your self willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) doctrine of free will:

• 
  ["]there is no need to pray to God for specific lost and unsaved persons since people are in exclusive control of choosing God a.k.a. claiming God's salvation for themselves
• the self willed people think God does not have control over their salvation
• self willed person's "I chose to believe in Jesus" trumps according to such a one's theology which is based in such a person's self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - in effect, such a daringly self willed one calls the Christ of us Christians a liar
• the self willian's daring thoughts that they can choose Jesus despite Jesus saying "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) translates to the fact that the self willian's do not believe in Him Who says Who He is - He is the One with the characteristic to exclusively choose to save while man lacks the characteristic to choose Jesus per the Word of God saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19 - includes salvation)

Apparently, you do not hear Jesus' saying "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20).

Nor do you believe in Jesus because your "I chose to believe in Jesus" is based in your self will, yet it's not based in God for the Word of God says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) - YOU ARE NOT EVEN BOUND IN THE TRUE VINE (JOHN 15:1-5).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbidden for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

“YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

THE ALL KNOWING GOD (JOHN 16:30) GETS EXCLUSIVE CREDIT AND GLORY FOR MAN’S SALVATION (JOHN 3:3-8), AND MAN DOES NOTHING - NOT EVEN A CHOICE (JOHN 15:16).

The Redemption of Mankind through the Christ is certain, even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14).

"What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do" (Isaiah 46:11).

No purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

 

[Kermos]

Jos 24:15


And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

It is irrational to say we have no choice. Man has free will. Adam chose to eat the forbidden fruit, he wasn't forced to. We all have a choice of who we will serve. No, man can't save himself and salvation is a free gift but we have to choose to accept it.

The Hebrew Word For "Choose" And It's Conjugates Is בָּחר (bachar) Strong's Number 977

Beholding Joshua 24:15

Joshua expresses a conditional logic statement in Joshua 24:15, and a conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct, for example:

IF condition THEN predicate

Stated in a more Joshua 24:15 focused fashion.

IF you_do_this that_will_happen

Thus, the conditional expresses an action in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).

A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

Now, the conditional logic statement Joshua expressed was "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15), so the condition (you_do_this) is "to serve the LORD is disagreeable in your eyes"; furthermore, Joshua 24:15 contains no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God . The condition Joshua expressed states the condition/state-of-being/nature of the person.

Disagreeable does not mean choose.

In the predicate Joshua provides only false gods to choose among for the those people whose nature is against the LORD, for Joshua said "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living" (Joshua 24:15), and the word "choose" in this verse is translated from בָּחר (bachar) (Strong's Number 977).

Finaly, Joshua states "but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD", and there is no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God (Joshua 24:15).

A state of being, "disagreeable", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15, and action, "serve", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

There is no choice towards God mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

Beholding The Larger Context Surrounding Joshua 24:15

No scripture states that the people in attendance actually chose the gods of their fathers or that they chose the gods of the Amorites, not in Joshua 24:15, not elsewhere.

I am not necessarily saying that they could not choose the gods of their fathers or the gods of the Amorites.

The people said "We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God" (Joshua 24:18).

Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins" (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

The people then said to Joshua, "No, but we will serve YHWH." (Joshua 24:21).

Joshua responded to the people with "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves YHWH, to serve Him." (Joshua 24:22)

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE "WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES", SO THEY TESTIFIED TO THE CONDEMNATION OF THEMSELVES.

When a person is a "witness for a defendant", then such a one is a proponent for the defendant; in other words, a witness for the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for justification of the defendant.

When a person is a "witness against a defendant", then such a one is an opponent against the defendant; in other words, a witness against the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for condemnation of the defendant.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign Gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

Beholding The Corollary Between Joshua's Words And Jesus' Words - Expressing The Exclusive Power Of God For God And Man Communing

Joshua declared "You will not be able to serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:19, and recall Joshua saying the people chose God in a pejorative manner in Joshua 24:22).

Lord Yeshua declares "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

The Lord is a Holy God (Joshua 24:19), and no man can enter the presence of God by the man's own autonomous power (Matthew 19:25-26).

BEHOLD THE DISTINCT COROLLARY BETWEEN JOSHUA'S WORDS AND YESHUA'S WORDS - THAT MAN IS IMPOTENT AT CHOOSING GOD.

Joshua declared "He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins" (Joshua 24:19).

Lord Yeshua declares "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The Lord is a jealous God (Joshua 24:19), so God does not share the glory of choosing man unto salvation (Isaiah 42:8).

BEHOLD ANOTHER DISTINCT COROLLARY BETWEEN JOSHUA'S WORDS AND YESHUA'S WORDS - THAT GOD EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLS FORGIVENESS OF SINS UNTO SALVATION.

(1) The scripture in Joshua 24 never indicates that the people chose God with God's blessing.

(2) Joshua told the people that they are "witnesses against yourselves" (Joshua 24:22), so the people testified to the condemnation of themselves.

(3) From the time that Joshua commanded to the people in attendance "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) at least 245 years* transpired until another generation of people "put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign gods prior to that time, and non-performance of the command (Joshua 24:23) shows fruit contrary of the people in attendance choice mentioned by Joshua (Joshua 24:22).

* 40 years (Judges 3:11) + 80 years (Judges 3:30) + 40 years (Judges 5:31) + 40 years (Judges 8:28) + 23 years (Judges 10:2) + 22 years (Judges 10:3) = 245 years

The Truth (John 14:6) is no scripture states that man was imparted free will, in particular, the ability to choose God unto man being saved from the wrath of God, for God reserses this glorious work unto God's majestic glory alone (John 15:16, John 15:19, includes salvation).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.