John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

[mailmandan]

No.

It’s not “crystal clear”.

Crystal clear would be a plain declaration “Jesus is God”, which appears no where in the Holy Bible.

The relationship between God and Christ is a mystery like Paul said:

“…the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ” (Colossians 2:2)

Furthermore the Holy Spirit isn’t even mentioned in this mystery.

It's crystal clear for those who are able to see and a mystery in Scripture is not meant to always remain a mystery. See Ephesians 3:1-9 and Colossians 1:26-27 for example.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

See Ephesians 3:1-9 and Colossians 1:26-27 for example.

So you compare the mystery of the gospel to the mystery of the trinity?

Not valid.

The gospel is crystal clear in scripture.

The trinity is not crystal clear.

 

[mailmandan]

So you compare the mystery of the gospel to the mystery of the trinity?

Not valid.

The gospel is crystal clear in scripture.

The trinity is not crystal clear.

My point about a mystery in Scripture is that it's not always meant to remain a mystery. Both the gospel and the Trinity are crystal cleat for those who have eyes to see. There are those who preach a "different" Jesus and a "different" gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:4)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There are those who preach a "different" Jesus and a "different" gospel.

“God-man” and “the trinity” are definitely DIFFERENT from scripture terms…

Is your RED FLAG not raising for this?

 

[mailmandan]

“God-man” and “the trinity” are definitely DIFFERENT from scripture terms…

Is your RED FLAG not raising for this?

My red flag raises for a "different" Jesus who is not God and a "different" gospel that cannot save. There is one God in essence/nature yet three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit and you will NEVER convince me otherwise.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There is one God in essence/nature yet three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit and you will NEVER convince me otherwise

This is not taught in the Bible.

It’s just a deduction of men.

 

[mailmandan]

This is not taught in the Bible.

It’s just a deduction of men.

It's taught in the Bible. You just don't have eyes to see.

 

[Wrangler]

try refuting what I have said myself, with your OWN words, and not by posting links by those who are only interested in pushing their UNBIBLICAL nonsense!

The unbiblical nonsense is the trinity, which not only is not in the Bible but goes against the Sh'ma, 1C, and Jesus OWN explicit words where he has a God - who we relate to as father - and his God is the only true God, who raised Jesus from the dead. The Sh'ma says God is one, not 3-in-1 and 2-in-1.

Consider the words you said, your OWN words, thoroughly and powerfully refuted.

 

[Wrangler]

here is the Greek text again, "ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς Θεότητος σωματικῶς"

Literally in English it reads, "for in Him continually abides all the completness of the Deity bodily"

Right! No matter what language you retreat to, there is no "Godhead" in Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

It's crystal clear from Scripture that Jesus is God.

Since "Jesus is God" is not in Scripture, it is not as you allege crystal clear. What is crystal clear is that Jesus is not dead, since he died and was raised from the dead by God and believing this is a condition of salvation. From today's devotional reading:

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9 NRSV​

NOTE: The juxtaposition between God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - with Jesus. What do you make of this passage?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The unbiblical nonsense is the trinity, which not only is not in the Bible but goes against the Sh'ma, 1C, and Jesus OWN explicit words where he has a God - who we relate to as father - and his God is the only true God, who raised Jesus from the dead. The Sh'ma says God is one, not 3-in-1 and 2-in-1.

Consider the words you said, your OWN words, thoroughly and powerfully refuted.

You have NEVER been able to refute ONE article that I have posted on CB!

You continue to post fallacies that are destroyed by the Holy Bible

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You just don't have eyes to see.

You have eyes that WANT to see…

 

[Wrangler]

Both the gospel and the Trinity are crystal cleat for those who have eyes to see.

You are seeing things that aren't there. The trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible. To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

Odd that this does not matter to trinitarians.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Right! No matter what language you retreat to, there is no "Godhead" in Scripture.

Romans 1.20

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, θειότης

Definition of GODHEAD

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Since "Jesus is God" is not in Scripture, it is not as you allege crystal clear. What is crystal clear is that Jesus is not dead, since he died and was raised from the dead by God and believing this is a condition of salvation. From today's devotional reading:

if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9 NRSV​

NOTE: The juxtaposition between God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature - with Jesus. What do you make of this passage?

Who is Romans 10.13 referring to

 

[Wrangler]

You have NEVER been able to refute ONE article that I have posted on CB!

You continue to post fallacies that are destroyed by the Holy Bible

LOL The opposite of this is true. 'For us, there is one God, the Father.' What does this mean about anyone who walks away from reading the Bible concluding anything but the Father is God? It means they are mistaken or deceived.

In my experience, it is both and the mistake takes the form of rejecting:

1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

As my signature explains, the basic problem of trinitarians is to read their doctrine onto unitarian text is inherently problematic. For instance, there is on offsetting explicit verse to above that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. For some reason, this does not matter to you. You read your doctrine into more ambiguous verses and ignore explicit verses to suit your dogma.

The Bible says 'For us, there is one God, the Father', which affirms what Jesus said; that he has a God - who we relate to as father - who is the only true God. This is good enough for me. Why is this not good enough for you?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

LOL The opposite of this is true. 'For us, there is one God, the Father.' What does this mean about anyone who walks away from reading the Bible concluding anything but the Father is God? It means they are mistaken or deceived.

In my experience, it is both and the mistake takes the form of rejecting:

1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

As my signature explains, the basic problem of trinitarians is to read their doctrine onto unitarian text is inherently problematic. For instance, there is on offsetting explicit verse to above that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. For some reason, this does not matter to you. You read your doctrine into more ambiguous verses and ignore explicit verses to suit your dogma.

The Bible says 'For us, there is one God, the Father', which affirms what Jesus said; that he has a God - who we relate to as father - who is the only true God. This is good enough for me. Why is this not good enough for you?

I will ask you again. WHO is Romans 10.13 referring to?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

So you compare the mystery of the gospel to the mystery of the trinity?

Not valid.

The gospel is crystal clear in scripture.

The trinity is not crystal clear.

The Trinity is only not clear to those who have not had their spiritual understanding enlightened by God the Holy Spirit

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The Trinity is only not clear to those who have not had their spiritual understanding enlightened by God the Holy Spirit

You mean, enlightened by the unbiblical words of men.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You mean, enlightened by the unbiblical words of men.

Feel free to try and disprove any of my personal studies on the Holy Trinity

STUDIES ON THE HOLY TRINITY