"All things are lawful..."

[WalkInLight]

The born again are not under the law, they are under Grace.
So, where sin would exist, Grace has dominion over it.

Christ came not to give us freedom to sin, but deliverance from Sin.

God has 2 remedies for the " willfully sinning christian".....the backslider. (DEMAS). .to help them turn around.

1.) Hebrews 12:6

2.) "Be sure you SIN will find you out".. this is to REAP what you have sown...

So, while its true that all sin has been resolved for the born again, and the same offer is the to world....but only applied by Faith...
This means that Christ has been judged for our sin, and this takes care of our Eternal Security.
However, down here, there is always a earthly consequence that comes to find you if live carnally.....both as an unbeliever and as a Believer.
ITS the sin of Christ rejection, (never born again) is the only sin that damns you to Hell. So, unbelievers face THAT, right now, and for eternity if they are never saved, never born again. John 3:36

Christ's Cross has removed Eternal Judgment from the Born again, but not the earthly consequence of Reaping what you sow.

"So, where sin would exist, Grace has dominion over it."

A nice idea, except not biblical. Where sin exists we are to repent and walk righteously.
John goes so far as to suggest we can pray for forgiveness of our fellow brothers and sisters.

16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life.
1 John 5:16

Now if John felt sin was already resolved by Jesus, why should we pray, because they already has life.

16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
James 5:16

12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall
1 Cor 8:12-13

Paul is saying sinning against a brother is a sin against Christ, so is a terrible thing to do.
Rather than sin not being an issue, it is very important and a denial of love flowing in our hearts.

God bless you

 

[Behold]

Joseph Prince
"For him the law is a bad thing, an enslaving thing, because it is synonymous with legalism. The law is a path to salvation through good works that can never succeed. He comments that the law is all about YOU and ‘the law is all about looking at yourself’ "

I spent years talking to folk who followed Prince and his preaching like the font of all knowledge.

I only follow Paul, so i can't relate to "following Joseph Prince".
Ive had some world class teachers, and im seminary trained., but, Paul is my teacher, just as Christ is my Redeemer.

I have heard a bit of Joseph Prince's theology, and he does not teach Old Testament law keeping as "how to stay saved".
He does not teach the Devil's error of..>"You are saved so that you can go now and keep the Law".
J Prince teaches that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to everyone who believes".
Prince teaches that the born again are "not under the law, but under Grace".
He does not teach commandment keeping as : "how to keep from losing your salvation".
Perhaps you are familiar with the false theological concept of losing your Salvation?
So, if that is your broken faith, then of course anyone who does not teach against the Grace of God, subverting it with Legalism, is not going to be someone you can agree with, at all.

What i can do for you, is answer your questions, if you have some that are related to the topic of "eternal security" vs "losing Salvation".

 

[Behold]

Not what paul taught . HE SAID WHOM YE SERVE IS WHOSE YE ARE . as i said above , TIME to stop listening to men .

Paul said.>"be thou a follower of me as i follow Christ".
So, that i do.

Jesus the Lord i serve.
God the Father, is my owner, and my Father.

The born again are "Blood bought" by the blood of Jesus. The born again are not their own..they BELONG to GOD who purchased them with the Blood Atonement.
Paul said the born again are "bought with a price'"", and that Price is the shed blood and death of Jesus The Christ.

A born again Saint is under new ownership.
God's Redemption is their purchased price.

 

[Behold]

"So, where sin would exist, Grace has dominion over it."

A nice idea, except not biblical. Where sin exists we are to repent and walk righteously.

I would not give you my opinion. I only uses Paul's teachings, or the Lord's, most of the time.
Once in a great while, i'll post something Jude said, or Peter.
But mostly Paul.

Paul said... Romans 5:20... where sin abounds Grace more abounds.

"where sin would exist, Grace has dominion over it".

A.) You are not under the Law, but under Grace.

You are not under the law's dominion anymore as now the dominion of God's Grace has become your Spiritual Dominion LAW.

So, its is BIBLICAL, unless you believe Paul isn't Biblical.

This verse means, that because Jesus became your sin, and shed His blood to be the "one time eternal sacrifice for it all", then the born again exist in that REDEMPTION from sin, forever.

 

[Behold]

"

16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life.
1 John 5:16

What is a sin that does NOT lead to death, means there is a sin that DOES lead to death.
So, if you have committed that one, Paul would not pray for you.
But if your sin does not lead to death, then He would.

So, the born again have "passed from DEATH to life".
This means your verse is not talking about their Salvation.

There is no "death" found "in Christ" and all the born again are "in Christ".


So, your verse, the tricky part is the word BROTHER.... as Paul didn't say "Brethren".
And That's different.

So, if this is a brother, and He does not say..>"in the Lord", then this has to be an unbeliever, who does not have Eternal Life.
They are not born again.
And the one sin they can commit that will keep DEATH on them, as to be IN 1st ADAM is to be "in death", as that is an unbeliever...and if they stay in that, Christ Rejection, then God cannot give them Life, Eternal life, as they are rejecting having it.
They are this... John 3:36

There is a verse that says that some men's sin follow them after death.
That can only be one.
The Unpardonable sin, as it follows you all the way to Hell, then the Lake of fire, because its the one and only sin that will you there.
And Praying for that one, wont help.

 

[Behold]

16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Did you want to confess your sins to us,?
You verse said to do it?

My advice?
NEVER do that. Never do that in front of a church.
Instead, take your failures to be holy to God's Grace and find rest from the condemnation that isn't from God.

 

[WalkInLight]

What is a sin that does NOT lead to death, means there is a sin that DOES lead to death.
So, if you have committed that one, Paul would not pray for you.
But if your sin does not lead to death, then He would.

So, the born again have "passed from DEATH to life".
This means your verse is not talking about their Salvation.

There is no "death" found "in Christ" and all the born again are "in Christ".


So, your verse, the tricky part is the word BROTHER.... as Paul didn't say "Brethren".
And That's different.

So, if this is a brother, and He does not say..>"in the Lord", then this has to be an unbeliever, who does not have Eternal Life.
They are not born again.
And the one sin they can commit that will keep DEATH on them, as to be IN 1st ADAM is to be "in death", as that is an unbeliever...and if they stay in that, Christ Rejection, then God cannot give them Life, Eternal life, as they are rejecting having it.
They are this... John 3:36

There is a verse that says that some men's sin follow them after death.
That can only be one.
The Unpardonable sin, as it follows you all the way to Hell, then the Lake of fire, because its the one and only sin that will you there.
And Praying for that one, wont help.

I understand your desire to fit verses to your theological view. I work a lot simpler.
I wish to know love and a deeper walk with Jesus.

Sin always hurts others and myself. So I wish to grow beyond this, and know my weaknesses and know Gods blessing.
John is sharing praying for brothers who sin. He is distinguishing between murder or actions that truly kill people and taking things, lying, hurting others, having wrong attitudes and defaming others. He is showing we can pray for our brothers and sisters and as the sacrifice for sins in the temple was offered for the sins of Israel we can pray and the Lord will forgive them.

The whole reason for this approach is the dangerous affect sin has on our fellowship with Jesus. As all relationships break down through these simple unresolved issues, as our hearts go cold, and bitterness creeps in. Most people leave church and fellowships because of these simple discouragements and losing focus and the heart locked into Jesus.

13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
Heb 3:13

I love Jesus because He touches my heart, and I want to share in His life and reality. Everything He shares I want more of, and to know how to walk as He walked. This is the real meaning of salvation.

God bless you

 

[Behold]

12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall

Yes, we are not to use OUR LIBERTY In Christ.... to cause a person to do something that offends their conscience.

The "fall" there is, into condemnation.

Lets say you can watch soccer all day, and another believers feels that wasting time like that is a sin.
Well, its not a sin to you, and so, you are not the condemnation.
But if they sit there with you all day, watching it, and inside they are feeling condemned about this waste of Time...
So, you are stumbling them.
You can do this by eating something... or by drinking wine.

There are many things that you feel are "ok to do", that other Christians would say..>"no its not".

Now, setting aside the 10 Commandments and Jesus's specific commandments that we are to always follow......The line that is crossed whereby what we are doing is a FLESH, or a carnal pursuit, is a different inner witness for each of us.

I am a Evangelist with a Teaching anointing. But i was a professional musician before i was a minister.
I have to be careful that i dont spend too much time with the Music aspect .
Im a Photographer, and i have to be careful of the amount of time i give to it.

We all have these things we love to do, and there is that line, that once you pass it, you are in a carnal pursuit, even if the thing you are doing is innocent.

Here is a basic analogy.
Money is not sinful. Its just MONEY.. But if you live for it, then you are in bondage to this pursuit, and that is Lust.

Anything can become, just like that, so you have to stay aware of your TIME< as TIME IS LIFE, and if you waste it, you are wasting your LIFE.

One more... Reader,

If the Devil controls your time, He controls your Life.
How would he do that to a Christian?
A.) The same way he does it to anyone... He gets your focus off of God, and Discipleship, and then you are focused on what isn't.
That's his Job.
That's his ministry...>its to steal your TIME, most of all.

 

[Behold]

I understand your desire to fit verses to your theological view. I work a lot simpler.
I wish to know love and a deeper walk with Jesus.

You wish to sound "spiritual" by implying that im "fitting verses", into my theology., and then assessing that your theology is "deeper".

Can you do better, or we can, let you Troll someone else.?
Understand WalkInLight?
I have plenty 2 do here on this forum. Like write Threads for people whose faith isn't broken.
After all you are a legalist who believes you can lose your Salvation.
Or no?

 

[WalkInLight]

You wish to sound "spiritual" by implying that im "fitting verses", into my theology., and then assessing that your theology is "deeper".

Can you do better, or we can, let you Troll someone else.?
Understand WalkInLight?
I have plenty 2 do here on this forum. Like write Threads for people whose faith isn't broken.
After all you are a legalist who believes you can lose your Salvation.
Or no?

When John rights about praying for a sinning brother, he is saying there is value in praying for forgiveness of sin in another believer.

If sin is no longer an issue in a theology, ie already forgiven and forgotten, and the apostles taught and believed this, it is hard to see John writing these verses. I am not sounding spiritual, I am being spiritual. To claim the apostles taught a particular position from their hearts, you have to resolve issues which do not support this.

I am an open hearted person, and simply cannot see such a theology being shown here. I also showed verses about confessing our sins one to another and praying for forgiveness. Again this is putting sinful behaviour as a serious issue in the believers life.

If anyone is not preaching and teaching as the apostles taught then they are a false teacher. Surely as loving followers of Christ we need to be in this place or we are fighting against the very thing we claim to love and desire others to find.

I am a follower of Jesus and I hear His voice. That is enough for me,

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

You wish to sound "spiritual" by implying that im "fitting verses", into my theology., and then assessing that your theology is "deeper".

Can you do better, or we can, let you Troll someone else.?
Understand WalkInLight?
I have plenty 2 do here on this forum. Like write Threads for people whose faith isn't broken.
After all you are a legalist who believes you can lose your Salvation.
Or no?

Troll? What is that? I am not sure what you mean. Am I privileged to have interaction with you?
I am just sharing my heart and having fellowship. I was unaware we were doing something else.
We have only one teacher, Jesus Christ.

God bless you

 

[Phoneman777]

let me ask this; do you keep the Law?

Don't concern yourself with WHAT OTHERS DO - concern yourself with what YOU ARE DOING.

James says we're to look in the mirror of the law and see if we're abiding by it.

 

[Behold]

When John rights about praying for a sinning brother, he is saying there is value in praying for forgiveness of sin in another believer.

You left out..."if the brother has not sinned a sin that is unto death".

And as i told you before, You should keep your mouth shut about your past sins...., as when you "guilt trip" to another person, or God forbid, in front of a Church.....then you have given the Devil ammunition, to destroy your ministry.
He will take your "confession", into the ears of people who are gossip laden carnal people, and that is a BIG MISTAKE you can't undo.

You are not really in the ministry, as if you were you'd know a few things about how "the sheep behave".
So, if by happenstance, you find yourself as an officer of the church, never ever talk to "other believers" about your most private sins and faults.
TALK to God and Christ as you can trust them.......
These people, these "sheep".... some will harm you later, if you CONFESS., and so will your wife, unless she has a true spirit of meekness and is the type of RARE person who holds secrets for life.
This is a very rare human being.

Also, and finally for today... Paul told you to be a "follower of Me"......"as I follow Christ".
So, there is your Apostle to follow. Its the one that Jesus chose from Heaven, as a "chosen vessel".
Paul is your "apostle to the gentiles" who wrote all the Church Doctrine, and most of the Epistles.
Jesus is your Lord and Savior, but PAUL is your teacher, along with the Spirit of Christ.
When you find someone like me, the rare Minister who shows YOU THAT, then you need to listen to me, as im the one who can help you grow.
But that's on you to discover and you have your opinions.

 

[quietthinker]

Don't concern yourself with WHAT OTHERS DO - concern yourself with what YOU ARE DOING.

James says we're to look in the mirror of the law and see if we're abiding by it.

yes, yes....I'm not concerned Phoneman......but maybe you could answer the question anyway

 

[Phoneman777]

I do get your saying if the conscience says don’t eat, then don’t eat. But my perspective of that verse from Isaiah is different from yours. Isaiah 66:17-20. First) as I pointed out about behind one tree in the midst, for me was never addressed.

I did address it, saying it's unreasonable to demand the verse refers to a specific ritual instead of a series of different idolatrous behaviors engaged separately at any given time. I also pointed out Isaiah didn't mention lambchops or any other clean meat: he mentioned pork.

Second) the passages moves on to “those that escape” “I will send to the nations, to those who are afar off who have not seen my glory, they (that escape) shall declare (Christ) among the Gentiles. Which to me contradicts the timing suggested of God showing up in the end to burn those who drink swines blood. Because they were sent to the Gentiles to declare Christ.

Dual prophecies pertain to both the day of the prophet and the end of time - obviously, what you're referring to pertains to ancient history, just as Jeremiah's "the slain of the Lord shall be in THAT DAY shall be from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth" doesn't pertain to ancient Israel, but to the end of time, right or wrong?

Concerning swines blood …I wonder what Christ was given to drink in the cup? We say “he drank of our sin” “he drank down Gods wrath for us” “he drank of the abomination” so with much talk about “swines blood” I’m staring to wonder exactly what it was Jesus Christ drank of? It says he pleaded not to drink of it. That he sweated in sight of facing this cup. And that in his thirst they gave him gall and bitterness to drink. Swines blood? I get that may sound like an abomination to think Jesus Christ drank of swines blood? To me, no more than “he drank of our sin”

KJV says "swine's flesh" aka those who eat "pork".

3) as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. There is only one way I can think of a vessel being clean to bring an offering into the house of the Lord. And (to me) it is not by calling that which Jesus died for unclean. All things are lawful…but not all things edify. Still for me I wonder why “but not all things edify” is never discussed but dropped off.
1 Corinthians 14:3-4 But he that prophesieth speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [4] He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesieth edifies the church.
^Where has it gone? Am I missing it? Are those just a bunch of empty words?

While it's good to compare Scripture with Scripture when cases arise that lack clarity, is Isaiah clear about what he's saying?

Yes...he's saying those who willfully engage in unclean acts like idolatrous grove worship and eat unclean meat like pork and mice are going up in smoke, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman777]

If that is your focus...you are indeed missing the point.

The point of any worldly law of God (food or otherwise) is not worldly, but heavenly. These things do not point to words or their translations, or the practices of men, but point to that narrow path of cleanliness in Christ who is without spot. And for this reason those laws were made void, as actually having no power in and of themselves. Peter may not have released such fare to be eaten, but Paul did (with the exception that it not cause a brother to stumble--which was the point all along--that being salvation, the saving of the soul, not so much the health of the body).

What may indeed kill the body is not the point.

Yes, the "heavenly" point of prohibitions against eating unclean meats is that they cloud the mind, inhibit spiritual discernment, cause physical harm and thus psychological harm in that we become vulnerable to fiery darts of Satan, etc.

As you can see, I'm not missing anything - I know full well God knows full well if we do things to hurt ourselves physically, Satan will use that to hurt us spiritually. We need every advantage we can muster, which includes refraining from harmful unclean foods.

 

[Phoneman777]

What punishment? Eternity in the lake of fire. we may still experience the consequences of sin in this life, but God is done with HIs anger towards us if and when we fail. He punished Jesus in our place-

Ah, so if two friends die while horrifically raping an innocent girl, one grace-saved but backslidden and the other not saved, the grace saved one goes to heaven while the other goes to hell.

A blind man can see that turns "grace" into "license" - the OSAS License to Sin.

 

[quietthinker]

We all assume that the 'wrong' theology will lead us down paths contrary to our interests, however my question is, can the 'right' theology take us down paths equally contrary to our interests?

 

[face2face]

The Bible speaks of this as reality.

Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Our old man is crucified with Him. The purpose of that crucifixion is to destroy the power of our flesh, so that we will no longer serve sin.

We've been freed from sin. But unless our believing matches this truth, we will live as though the flesh and sin still have power. So God tells us to reckon ourselves dead indeed to sin, but alive unto God. Reckoning ourselves dead aligns us with this truth.

Much love!

This is also true.
1 Peter 1:5 who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
You are speaking to the blue text while I to the green.
The promise is covering both blue and green and while the reality can only be seen in the green text those who live by faith "hope" in that promise.
Titus 1:2-3 is all we have today!

 

[quietthinker]

We all assume that the 'wrong' theology will lead us down paths contrary to our interests, however my question is, can the 'right' theology take us down paths equally contrary to our interests?

and we all assume the axe being at the root of the tree is someone else's tree but what happens when it is at ours?
Do we go into denial? Do we avoid the threatening questions altogether? Do we engage fancy footwork to distract? Do we have courage or does cowardice take the drivers seat?