"All things are lawful..."

[Phoneman777]

What you have not realized about yourself yet, is that once you stopped trusting in Christ to keep you saved, if you ever did at all, your faith became subverted and "pleasing God" can't be accomplished when you have no faith in Christ to keep you saved.
As that means, you have faith in yourself to do it, = "fallen from Grace".

Amazes me that those who preach the Biblical message that the evidence for salvation is obedience (1 John 2:3-4 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV; Matthew 24:12-13 KJV; Revelation 22:14 KJV; John 14:15 KJV, etc.) are said to have "fallen from grace"....

...but the "real grace saved" folks are those who define grace as a OSAS License to Sin which allows you to escape the same punishment for doing the exact same thing for which those without grace will suffer.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is a pre-trib rapture, according to the NT and according to Protestant Scholarship that is involved in mainline denominations.
Paul talked about "attaining to it".
The religious fringe groups of course teach 'No rapture" and "you can lose your salvation".

There is no pre trib! You can't find it anywhere in Scripture!

The 70 Weeks of Daniel were just that: 70 weeks long. They started in 457 B.C. and ended in 34 A.D. with the stoning of Stephen when the Gospel finally went to the Gentiles.

Daniel ain't talking about no "70 weeks plus 2,000 years and counting..." like you Jesuit Futurists claim.

Historicism is what every single Protestant believed, preached, and taught universally in Christendom for over 300 years, from the time of Luther until the mid-19th century. (there were always "protestants" since the time the "Man of Sin" sat down in the "temple of God" and began to drag every stripe and type of paganism into the church, but the Protestant Reformation is what turned the Christian world upside down...but you didn't know that, did you?).

Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism didn't arrive on the scene until the "Counter-Reformation" of the mid-16th century when so many sincere Catholics left the Roman Catholic church due to the preaching of Historicism that they desperately needed an alternative version of eschatology which could clear them of their indictment as Antichrist. They found it in the teachings of Jesuits Alcazar (Preterism) and Ribera (Futurism) AND IS THE SAME GARBAGE YOU CLIMB ON HERE AND PREACH.

 

[Behold]

"For it is impossible...If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
Are you back to arguing with Paul?

You have sinned, subsequent to Salvation, if you are indeed saved... so, you have engaged the pollutions of the world. Just ask Paul for the update, fella.

Also, All heretics live in Hebrews so, if you want to prove it, just keep using the same 2 verses that all use, that are written to Christ rejecting HEBREWS, and not born again Believers.
You'll note that Paul is preaching the Gospel to the group of HEBREWS, in Hebrews 6 and 10, and Acts 28..... They are unsaved Christ rejecting Jews "willfully sinning" the sin of "trodding underfoot the blood of Jesus". "They are crucifying Christ afresh".. same as their Father's did who wanted Him Hung on the Cross.
Its the same ......

Also, the born again, will never be led back to faith in Christ, as they have already believed.
But they can be led back to discipleship.
IF however they become "cold", "backslidden", and their faith ruined, then they are still born again, as the Born Again Spirit is not affected by thinking issues or a faith crisis, or personal behavior.

 

[Behold]

Amazes me that those who preach the Biblical message that the evidence for salvation is obedience

What obedience does God require to save you, initially?
"come to me and believe".
Thats it.
So, to teach that you have to be obedient by works and commandments, to maintain what was initially given as "the Gift of Salvation" is a Cross denying lie, and you should not believe it or teach it, Phoneman777.
But you will as you are a dark light. Luke 11:35, according to your continuing Cross denying, Grace rejecting, Legalism posts.
You should leave the cult that has you deceived, once you see it.
Could take a while.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ive made the distinction clear as a bell, but the thing is, i can't comprehend it for you.
That's on you.

There is no sin, "in Christ" and all the born again are "In Christ".
See, you dont realize that the body is dead because of sin, and the mind is not born again, and has to be renewed.
If you understood that the Son of God is the born again spirit that is not the old man of sin that can be tempted, then you would be on your way to actually understanding "born again" as "the righteousness of God, IN Christ".
It could be a while.

The only distinction you have is desperately clinging to the ridiculous idea that the Christian may backslide into impenitent sin and still go to heaven, when Scripture says plainly that's not the case.

 

[Behold]

There is no pre trib! You can't find it anywhere in Scripture!

.

The Rapture is "pre-trib".

The Millennial Reign is post Grt Trb.

 

[Behold]

Jesuit

Jesuit's teach what you teach.. That Salvation is your responsibility so "get busy trying to work your way into heaven"

'"Good luck with that, says the Cross of Christ.""

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, where it says "all things are lawful" and that "where no law is there is no transgression" I believe it's talking about the ordinances of the Law rather than moral things and righteousness. The ordinances were nailed to the cross and have been done away with, but righteousness certainly has not been. And I believe there is some leeway under grace....God's longsuffering and grace giving us room to learn and grow, as we walk according to our conscience according to what we have attained. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

"the handwriting of ordinances that were against us" actually means "bill of debt" and refers to the Law of Moses of ceremonies, sacrifices, and penalties for violating the same. That's why when the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross, circumcision, yearly feast day sabbaths, firstborn offerings, etc., were are nailed along with it...but Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness" which is why it will ALWAYS be wrong to break any of them, including the 4th which we'll keep for all eternity

 

[Behold]

The only distinction you have is desperately clinging to the ridiculous idea that the Christian may backslide into impenitent sin and still go to heaven, when Scripture says plainly that's not the case.

You sound desperate, and you should be.
See, you are trying to save yourself by works and commandments, because your broken faith has no TRUST that Christ the Redeemer keeps you saved... if you are truly saved and not just water baptized and religious, thinking that this is salvation.
All that is left is you, and you have failed already to not sin, after you were saved.
So, your self saving is doomed, and that is why you cling to nothing...... you have nothing to hope for, as you have lost faith in Christ.
See, real faith in Christ is not....>"well, He saved me but now i have to do the rest'.
Understand?
That is NOT Faith in Christ, that you are clinging to, while you pretend you understand faith.
This is Cult mentality, trying to pretend that its Real Faith, yet its NO FAITH, in reality. Its just SELF.... righteousness.

 

[Phoneman777]

And you fail to understand that sin is forgiven.

Welcome to the Cross of Christ.
Its time you give it some RESPECT.

No it ain't. "...but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy".

What part of that don't you understand? You haven't "forsaken" habitual, presumptuous, deliberate sin if you continue to engage in it, right or wrong? You MUST choose Christ and reject your OSAS License to Sin if you will be saved, because that License won't help you in the day of Judgment.

Men accept responsibility, and boys will be boys.

 

[Behold]

"the handwriting of ordinances that were against us" actually means "bill of debt" and refers to the Law of Moses of ceremonies, sacrifices, and penalties for violating the same. That's why when the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross, circumcision, yearly feast day sabbaths, firstborn offerings, etc. are nailed along with it...but Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness" which is why it will ALWAYS be wrong to break any of them, including the 4th which we'll keep for all eternity

The Law of Moses is not related to the Kingdom of God. Also, "Christ is the END of the Law, to everyone who believes".

"you are not under the law, but under Grace".

"The law is the power of sin".

"your old man, is crucified with Christ" and the real Son of God, is born again, the Spirit. The born again Spirit exists in the KOG, IN Christ, as ONE with God, and there is no sin found there.
Being "made righteous" is the eternal life that is found by being born again.
This is eternal security, as it based only on Christ, and never on self effort.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes you say that, but you are not being honest.

The reason you say I'm not being honest is because you're refusing to be an adult. You childishly insist grace grants you a OSAS License to Sin instead of recognizing that the keeping of God's commandments is the outward evidence of the chosen spiritual condition which precedes our outward actions.

 

[Behold]

No it ain't. "...but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy".

Everyone who has been born again, has received the "gift of Righteousness".
If you had it, you'd understand it.
Instead you are teaching works in place of God's Grace as all the Cult's teach this.... exclusively.... as their "Gospel of Works" that is : Galatians 1:8
There is your home theology.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Rapture is "pre-trib".

The Millennial Reign is post Grt Trb.

Paul says the saints are raptured when Jesus descends in glory, and Peter says when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" to collect the saints, the Earth is going to be turned inside out.

 

[Behold]

The reason you say I'm not being honest is because you're refusing to be an adult.

You are reduced to personal insults and that is the gateway that all use on a Christian fourm, who are found in heresy trying to pretend they are not.

I find you to be somewhat foolish and not what i would classify as an intellectual.
You want to be perceived as a Teacher, because you need the approval.
If you were an "adult" and had a sophisticated mind, you would not be caught up in that Trivial and carnal pursuit.
However, you are what you are... and that is not going to change.

also....Earlier you said that you have no idea what a "Troll", is all about.
Well, a Troll is someone who tries to create strife on forums, by offering arguments for the sake of arguing.
That's you.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesuit's teach what you teach.. That Salvation is your responsibility so "get busy trying to work your way into heaven"

'"Good luck with that, says the Cross of Christ.""

Now you're just being silly. Jesus Himself tells us how futile it is to attempt to earn salvation (Luke 17:10 KJV) - He also tells us that saints who choose to give up enduring to the end are going to hell (Matthew 24:12-13 KJV).

 

[Phoneman777]

You sound desperate, and you should be.
See, you are trying to save yourself by works and commandments,

No, I'm trying to save others from suffering the same fate to which your false doctrine is leading you.

 

[Behold]

Paul says the saints are raptured when Jesus descends in glory,

Actually you teach that, and Paul has other Theology.

Look at it again..

1. Rapture happens when the time of the Gentile's is over.....and that is as "the days of noah" are found, and we are in those Days.

2. Great Trib. 7 yrs. anti-christ. then 2nd Advent

3. Millennial Reign

 

[Phoneman777]

The Law of Moses is not related to the Kingdom of God. Also, "Christ is the END of the Law, to everyone who believes".

"you are not under the law, but under Grace".

"The law is the power of sin".

"your old man, is crucified with Christ" and the real Son of God, is born again, the Spirit. The born again Spirit exists in the KOG, IN Christ, as ONE with God, and there is no sin found there.
Being "made righteous" is the eternal life that is found by being born again.
This is eternal security, as it based only on Christ, and never on self effort.

The Ten Commandments ain't "the Law of Moses" - why do you think they were written in stone? To exemplify their "temporal" or permanent nature?

 

[Behold]

Now you're just being silly. Jesus Himself tells us how futile it is to attempt to earn salvation .

Thinking you can lose your Salvation, proves you are trying to earn it. = No faith in Christ.
See, if you believed Christ kept you saved, you would not be found on a forum trying to keep your Salvation...by.......your list.
You have quite a few self saving Christ rejecting Items on it.
Remember?