22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

Since you still refuse to answer, it's obvious that you still believe that grammatical antecedents are of the devil.

And thus you still believe that Christ = antichrist.

That Is Your "Opinion" and I Strongly Disagree, "Stop" the personal attacks calling posters heretics

 

[covenantee]

That Is Your "Opinion" and I Strongly Disagree, "Stop" the personal attacks calling posters heretics

My opinion is based on the solid evidence which you supply.

 

[Truth7t7]

But thanks for recognizing my post on this. And you can feel assured that I'm not hostile to other points of view--I know there is a lot of disagreement between various schools of interpretation.

Quote Post #3967 Randy Kluth, To Truth7t7 Below

"What kind of weird cult do you belong to that you don't believe basic Christian doctrine? Surely you don't belong here, spreading heresy among Christians, some of whom are likely to be young and vulnerable to *your* deceptions!"

 

[covenantee]

Yes, that's how perhaps most futurists see it today, in particular Dispensationalists. I do not, however. I see the AoD mentioned in Dan 9.27 as being the same AoD mentioned in the Olivet Discourse. And in Luke 21 it seems pretty apparent to me that Luke's version refers to the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem in place of Matthew and Mark who call that event an AoD.

So for me, the AoD in Dan 9 and the AoD in the Olivet Discourse is the same thing, and Jesus identified it in Luke as armies surrounding Jerusalem, to destroy that city and the temple.

That is a Scripturally defensible understanding.

 

[Truth7t7]

My opinion is based on the solid evidence which you supply.

That Is Your "Opinion" and I Strongly Disagree, "Stop" the personal attacks calling posters heretics, in violation of forum rules

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claim the middle of the 70th week took place at Calvary in 33AD

Where (is/has/will) the last half of your 70th week take place?

In my view, the 70th week ended at the stoning of Stephen.

You see, many people understand Daniel 9:24 in terms of a punch list of items that will be fulfilled during the 70 weeks of years. The more I study prophecy the more I came to realize that Daniel 9:24 should be seen as a list of items that the Jewish people themselves must perform to avoid judgment. The Jewish people did NOT do everything on the list and so judgment came in 70AD.

I'm not saying that these items will never come to pass. They will. God himself will cause them to be fulfilled when the Day of the Lord arrives.

 

[dad]

Why are you afraid to answer the question? Is there righteousness in you? Yes or no?



The great tribulation ended in 70 AD.



Interpretation by hallucination.



Are you a closet papist?



You're on this forum today because of their faith, vision, and sacrifice. But there's no ingrate like a dispensational futurist ingrate.



Dispensational futurism.

A fantasy of ignorance.

A fallacy of arrogance.

A modernist cultic heretical blasphemous abomination of desecration.

You did not identify who those people were that were in error that you hold in such high esteem and imagine they are some sort of pillars of the faith of actual believers. Anyhow, you claim that the time unlike any other in the future or past known as the great tribulation happened already.

Gong!

 

[covenantee]

That Is Your "Opinion" and I Strongly Disagree, "Stop" the personal attacks calling posters heretics, in violation of forum rules

Then stop providing the solid evidence of heresy which you promote.

Here's an exercise for you.

I defy you, or anyone else, to present just one instance of a recognized defender of the true Christian faith prior to the 19th century, who declared that the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27 was not Christ, but is instead antichrist.

Just one instance.

Go for it.

 

[covenantee]

You did not identify who those people were that were in error that you hold in such high esteem and imagine they are some sort of pillars of the faith of actual believers. Anyhow, you claim that the time unlike any other in the future or past known as the great tribulation happened already.

Gong!

Read Josephus re. great tribulation.

Whomp!

 

[dad]

I see the AoD mentioned in Dan 9.27 as being the same AoD mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

Me too. There is only one great tribulation, and one abomination of desolation. The shadow of that was long ago when that Greek leader set up an abomination in the holy place.

The context of when the abomination of desolation is set up in Mat 24 is the very end time. The gospel was not preached in all the world in 70AD
Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15

And in Luke 21 it seems pretty apparent to me that Luke's version refers to the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem in place of Matthew and Mark who call that event an AoD.

No. Luke clearly identified what days he was talking about. (rather Jesus clarified what He was talking about)

Luke 21:22

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

That tells us exactly when it is referring to. No doubt. Now the pattern of prophesy in the bible is to often start at one event, and then jump far into the future. I would think that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was included, but not the main or end focus of the prophesy.

So for me, the AoD in Dan 9 and the AoD in the Olivet Discourse is the same thing, and Jesus identified it in Luke as armies surrounding Jerusalem, to destroy that city and the temple.

As mentioned an application is there but the main focus is the Tribulation/wrath of Good when all prophesy is fulfilled. Remember that in the final years and days of the Tribulation Jerusalem is surrounded big time!

There is a future period of trouble not identified as an AoD, but rather, identified as the Reign of Antichrist.

The Tribulation is not the AOD, but the AOD is something that happens in that seven years. Just like the tribulation is not the two witnesses, or the antichrist etc. Those things are things that we see in the tribulation period.

Dan 7 refers to this period as 3.5 years. The book of Revelation identifies it as 1260 days.

You do realize a bible year is 360 days? When I use a calculator I found that 1260 days divided by 360 = 3.5

I believe people confuse the 1290 days of Antiochus 4's reign with the prophecy of Antichrist's reign because both are mentioned in Dan 12. However, at that time, both these events were still future to Daniel's generation. Today, we are only looking forward to the reign of Antichrist.

No. The extra 30 days is something that is part of wrapping things up after Jesus returns. You are getting focused on the diving board
and losing sight of the deep end of the prophesy pool.

But thanks for recognizing my post on this. And you can feel assured that I'm not hostile to other points of view--I know there is a lot of disagreement between various schools of interpretation.

I see nothing wrong with seeking.

 

[dad]

Read Josephus re. great tribulation.

Whomp!

Josephus? Really? Can you tell us about his beliefs and faith?

 

[dad]

Stop The Personal Attacks In Slander, As Seen In Post #4103!

Stop The Personal Attacks In Slander, As Seen In Post #4103!

Here is the post you cite

"The Great Tribulation is a certain time and event. There are no others. Your attempts at belittling the truth ..... are exposed."

I fixed it. How is that?

 

[covenantee]

Josephus? Really? Can you tell us about his beliefs and faith?

Never heard of him, eh?

Historical illiteracy is endemic in the dispensational futurist population.

Ever heard of google?

 

[dad]

Never heard of him, eh?

Historical illiteracy is endemic in the dispensational futurist population.

Ever heard of google?

I was hoping you would not be referring to a Jewish historian and maybe there was some believer with the same name you held in esteem. Anyhew, make a simple point about what he wrote, rather than picking daisies all day here.

 

[covenantee]

I was hoping you would not be referring to a Jewish historian and maybe there was some believer with the same name you held in esteem. Anyhew, make a simple point about what he wrote, rather than picking daisies all day here.

He wrote about the great tribulation of Israel in 70 AD.

Details are all online.

 

[dad]

He wrote about the great tribulation of Israel in 70 AD.

Details are all online.

He was wrong, not even close. That was not when all things written were fulfilled. Not even a serious position to promote.

 

[WPM]

That was a complete word salad of non-response

The desolation is "The Destroyed Temple" and this desolation will last from 70AD to the future return if Jesus Christ?

That is "Forcing" something into the scripture thats not seen, a 1950 year "Consummation" and waiting, that is man made Malarkey, no different than a 1,000 year day of the Lord and a 2,000 year gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks

How can your preterist reformed eschatology be taken seriously, laughable and that's a big understatement

A 1950 year consummation and waiting, Big Smiles!

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

You seem totally incapable of responding without insults and chides. Sad!

Hello! The temple is gone since AD70 and will be to the coming of Christ. Simple to those who are not indoctrinated by Dispensationalism.

 

[WPM]

Your claim is false, I will continue to post your previous claims as seen below (The Cross!)

Quotes WPM Post #4050

Quote Truth7t7: Thanks for the response to question #2 please respond to #1 below thanks

1.) WPM when did or will the consummation take place in Daniel 9:27?

WPM Response #4050: Daniel 9:27?
The cross!

I misspoke. It is the second coming. That has always been my view. I edited my last post.

 

[WPM]

Nonsense of course His return finishes things. From the time the abomination is set up till He returns is three and a half years. Not thousands of years.

8 week?

Not in your beliefs. This is not the end of this corrupt world or of time in Premil. You add another age on this is a rerun of this age. Sin and sinners, dying and crying, deceit and decay grow.

 

[WPM]

Nonsense of course His return finishes things. From the time the abomination is set up till He returns is three and a half years. Not thousands of years.

8 week?

How about furnishing us with Scripture.