Truth7t7
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You mean the words don't say what David Boyer believes they say is a liar, The text is highly symbolic
Life in the Millennium.
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No not those who agree or disagree but those who are rude and do not give the OP an opportunity to establish their thoughts without immediately going to their own thoughts off-topic !
David Boyer
Active Member
Your first sentence is a bit rubbish.
The text has lots of images... possibly symbols... but is highly symbolic would be a function of your theological bent.
An image MAY be a symbol... but symbols may not qualify as highly symbolic... possibly just mildly symbolic.
But when "symbolism" replaces exegesis we get into troubled waters.
Truth7t7
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You mean a poster providing scriptural truth that shows the OP is wrong and has no biblical support that's 100% on topic, with post #59 being a prime example
If a person desires to share their belief on a subject "Unchallenged" take it to private chat and have a tea party, or start a thread stating Pre-Mills Only, it's pretty simple
YOU are NOT 100% right in all you think either, mister, I'm probably right that most of us are not. We are still growing here.
END!
I will NOT LET you use me the same !
Cheerios !
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Warning was issued 2,000+ Years ago, they still APPLY.
2,000+ years ago TO THIS DAY, have been and ARE “the last time”.
The “last time”, is a reference TO “ONLY IN CHRIST” are men “secure” in their salvation, and a WARNING, to all men upon the earth “following”, BUT NOT CONVERTED; THAT MANY “antichrist(S)” are INCREASING AND AFTER THEIR SOUL. AND BECAUSE “non converted” men ARE WEAK, “they” can be SWAYED AWAY from “following” Christ Jesus.
THAT ^ WARNING, does NOT APPLY to a man “IN” Christ.
1John.2
[18] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
* By your own words, you reveal yourself as “half - studied”, never arriving at the BIG PICTURE, yet preaching AGAINST individuals, who have surpassed your understanding.
Example ^ of YOUR “half - studied” preaching:
“FOLLOWERS”.......are “UNCOMMITTED BELIEVERS” ... THEY ARE WARNED...BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL IN DANGER OF Falling Away!
“CONVERTED”.......are “ARE ALREADY SAVED” and CAN NOT BE SWAYED to FALL AWAY FROM CHRIST JESUS and BE FOOLED INTO FOLLOWING AFTER “ANY” antichrist!
Your “half - studied” preaching, reveals, your not understanding, BEFORE, DURING, AFTER the Tribulation...
* BEFORE the Tribulation...ALL Converted IN Christ, are risen up off the face of the earth.
* DURING the Tribulation...Followers are converted, Die unto Christ, Some fall away join Satan, bodily live (for a short while).
* DURING the Tribulation...Gods mission is ISRAEL. Making sure ALL of ISRAEL hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ (from their OWN race, Tribesmen of Israel), that they can ACCEPT or REJECT.
* The Converted ARE NOT ON Earth.
* Followers ARE ON Earth.
* Jews ARE ON Earth, having NOT accept JESUS as their Messiah.
* Gentiles ARE ON Earth, having flat out REJECTED God and Jesus.
* God IS IN Heaven.
* The Lord IS IN the Clouds WITH His “Converted CHURCH”
* The Son of Man IS IN Heaven.
* The Lamb of God IS IN Heaven, OPENING THE SEALS, which IS the Lamb ...Giving POWER TO “THEE” Anti-Christ, to REEK HAVOC UPON the Earth and it’s OCCUPANTS.
* God BEGINS FULFILLING HIS PROMISE TO ISRAEL.
* God PREPARES...SENDS 12 Thousand of each of the 12 Tribes. Rev 7
* JEWS FIRST...
* God SENDS “His TWO Witnesses” TO Jerusalem TO PREACH the Gospel of Jesus Christ, TO Jews First.
* God SENDS “His 12 Thousand each, ie 144,000 Tribesmen to Mt Zion”.
* God Directs ALL of Israels ‘mortal” TRIBES, to FLEE the ANTI-CHRIST, and Go to Mt Zion.
* On Mt. Zion, A LAMB and the 144,000 Tribesmen TEACH the Secondly, ALL Mortal Tribes of ISRAEL, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Rev 14
* Third and Lastly, A SINGLE holy Angel Servant of God, IS SENT, to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, TO the Whole World. Rev 14
* THEN: THE SIGN of the Son of Man, APPEARS IN the Clouds. Rev 14
* FROM the Son of Mans, position, Sitting on a CLOUD, HE REAPS THE EARTH. Separating......ALL WiTH the Lord God...FROM ALL Against the Lord God.
Again, YOU ARE repeatedly “WARNING”, men “IN” Christ...
A WARNING, that APPLIES, TO: “NON-CONVERTED BELIEVERS” !
The ELECT, ARE “the two witnesses”, ARE “the sealed 144,000” ON earth, during the time, SATAN is on EARTH, having been given GREAT POWERS to conquer and fool (unsure men).
WHILE Satans power is great, It is NOT Greater than Gods, NOR will it be POSSIBLE for the ELECT to be fooled by Satan.
(That Knowledge that the ELECT can not be fooled, IS to ASSURE ... the JEWS and TRIBESMEN...What they are HEARING from the two witnesses and 144,000......IS Expressly FROM God...and NOT a TRICK of Satan!)
Followers....ARE NOT the ELECT.
Followers....ARE vulnerable to being FOOLED by Satan.
The Converted Church, IS already SAVED, no longer “ON” the face of the Earth.
More of your ILL PLACED Warnings...
Men IN Christ are NOT DWELLING ON THE EARTH during the Tribulation, ie during “THE” anti-Christ’s short reign.
You show yourself to NOT know the BIG PICTURE...
Regarding, THOSE, converted “IN” Christ.
You show yourself to NOT know the BIG PICTURE...
OF HOW Gods, ORDER and WAY, unfolds.
You show yourself to NOT know the BIG PICTURE...
OF Gods Kingdom.
No Pre-TB
Well-Known Member
We reign not as overseers. Christ always taught that we humble ourselves as servants to each other. I don’t take Reigning as an act of command over lesser subjects. Rather, elevated to a position in authority where previously we were subject to ridicule, persecution and scoffers. Then, when reigning, others wish to learn of God. Who was once attacked is now sought after for knowledge. Will there be wickedness still? I think so because death still lives till it’s destroyed. And wickedness allows Satan to tempt others after the reign when he’s freed. There will be those who administer justice and those that are needing to learn. Outside of the city are those that cannot enter in right?
No Pre-TB
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No Pre-TB
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I was quoting verbatim from the NIV. I did not mis quote it. The only 2 versions that say “they rule OVER the earth” is the Aramaic Bible and Weymouth New Testament. I don’t use either of those.
The literal standard says, and they will reign on the earth.
Btw, we are Israel.
Truth7t7
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Please respond to post #11 and tell the forum how you understand "The Fire Seen" at the Lord's Appearing/Revealing, waiting?
Truth7t7
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@Truth7t7 IMHO it's good to remember the difference between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32).
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I know this is what many imagine, but you have explained allegory with allegory.
Please understand that even we are only an image in part of all that is true in the creation and the word. For this same reason Jesus came preaching--not what the kingdom heaven is, but saying rather, "The kingdom of heaven is like..." Allegory.
The Pretribbers take 1 Corinthians 10:32, which is simply speaking of eating and drinking onto idols, and build a whole elaborate eschatological theology around it. They do this to support their belief that there are three distinct peoples in this world.
This reading has absolutely nothing to do with categorizing the peoples of this world into three distinct spiritual groups, or is it anything to do with the second coming of Christ, or some supposed future seven-year tribulation. Rather, it is simply speaking of, and relating to, the subject of eating unto idols. This passage is in essence saying that believers must respect the eating customs of all, whether in our everyday life among the Jew and non-Jew (with their distinct customs) or whether among believers – the Church of Jesus Christ. We must eat as unto the Lord wherever we go, unless that food it is sacrificed unto idols (v28). 1 Corinthians 10:31-32 thus says, “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.”
This passage separates unbelievers into two distinct groups Jews and Gentiles because they have two diametrically different systems of eating. This was the issue under discussion. That was why Paul divided the unbelievers. He is illustrating the fact that wherever you are among the brethren (the church of God) or outside among the unsaved (Jew or Gentile) “do all to the glory of God.” This passage is addressing a natural issue – albeit, it is for the purpose of outlining spiritual wisdom and truth. This reading is not suggesting or hinting at the notion that there are three types of people in God’s eyes. There isn’t! There are either saved or lost. Jews and Gentiles are found in both groups.
Therefore, to build such a major doctrine upon such a totally unrelated isolated passage is both naïve, unwise and mistaken. Notably, this is the only passage that the dispensationalists can find that identifies three groupings of people in the world. And, as we have already seen, it is nothing to do with dispensationalism, notwithstanding, they force their whole school of thought into this reading as if it will somehow prop up this carefully constructed sandcastle.
Jesus brought a radical revolutionary message to the early Jewish disciples. He told them that there are others that are not of this flock (namely not of the Jewish race) that belong to Him, who will be integrated into His sheepfold. He was talking here of the Gentiles. What is more, He describes how these two peoples (both Jews and Gentiles) would be united together in Him and become one flock! Jesus is here acknowledging that salvation would not be limited to the Jewish race. He was predicting that the Gospel would expand out and embrace the nations. He explains that there would then be a fusion of the believing element of both ethnic groups into one cohesive believing sheepfold – with Him as a Shepherd. This indeed happened 2000 years ago.
It is highly unlikely that these early Jewish disciples immediately, or fully, grasped the enormity of these words from Jesus back in the day. This is seen in their huge struggle to integrate Gentile converts into faithful Israel on an equal footing though a large part of Acts, and their desire to have the Gentile converts circumcised. Of course, today, with the benefit of hindsight, we can see the magnitude of what our Lord was saying, and grasp how much of a game-changer this statement was. Undoubtedly, it was a pivotal moment in time, and it was a turning point for the plan of God in history. It revealed a seismic change of direction. It disclosed a monumental alteration of focus.
Christ was informing these Jewish believers that grace was going to be widened outside of Israel’s borders. The Gentiles were about to be brought into the same harmonious fold of grace as the Jewish believers. The mentioning of two groupings within the body didn’t indicate “two folds” any more than references to male and female, rich and poor, free and bond in the New Testament represented multiple folds amongst the people of God. Rather it simply showed the variety of members within the one godly flock. Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus become one in the Messiah to an extent not seen under the Mosaic Covenant. While Christians may retain their natural identity when they come to Christ (whether that is racial, social standing or gender), these groupings carry no spiritual distinction, special favor or difference religious under the new covenant.
No Pre-TB
Well-Known Member
Exactly! But humans are either saved or lost, irrespective of race. Race does not matter today. It is all about grace.
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