Christians are sinners, but not of the devil

[robert derrick]

You actually tried to answer honestly. I'm a bit taken aback. It's not exactly yes/no, but I hadn't really expected you to do this much. And so, I do give honor to whom honor is due to whatever degree. And I can never again say, that no OSAS believer in faith alone, will at least try to answer plain questions honestly.

So, the end result of your teaching is: You still do unrighteous works of the flesh, but you are not condemned anymore in anything you do.

Since you have done your best to be honest, I will address you in private to challenge you personally. If you want to respond, then I'd be glad to continue as long as you like.

 

[Behold]

So, the end result of your teaching is: You still do unrighteous works of the flesh, but you are not condemned anymore in anything you do.

'

Hummmmm..

I always answer honestly.
What is interesting is that you came now and lied again...
You said that i "do unrighteous works".., as if i even implied this, which i would never.

I literally, never said that...
So, are you just such a carnally deceived Grace Hating devil that you can't ever be honest?
You could at least try, Robert.
That would be something new for you.

 

[robert derrick]

'

Hummmmm..

I always answer honestly.
What is interesting is that you came now and lied again...
You said that i "do unrighteous works".., as if i even implied this, which i would never.

I literally, never said that...
So, are you just such a carnally deceived Grace Hating devil that you can't ever be honest?
You could at least try, Robert.
That would be something new for you.

No, I'm being honest, and I honestly appreciate your effort.

But, if you won't say yes/no to a yes/no question, but prefer to talk doctrinally around it, then you leave it up to others to decipher your answer.

And since you believe you are no longer condemned for anything you do in life, and you won't answer the question plainly, then it is more than reasonable to conclude you are still doing unrighteous works of the flesh.

After all, according to you teaching, it really doesn't matter what you are doing or not doing anymore, since you say God doesn't condemn you one way or the other.

 

[robert derrick]

Real believers want to talk about what actually matters., as talking about SIN, is for sinners, not for Saints.

This is also another new one from you. As I've said many times. I don't want you to stop talking on this site, because I believe you are the only one that can keep coming up with more and more insights into the OSAS mindset, and reveal it's deepest secrets.

We all know of Christians who don't want to hear their sins being peached against, but no one has said it plainly before as you do.

Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits.

And I believe you have hit on why Adam refused to heed the commandment of the Lord: He is the first example of a real believer such as yourself, who did not want to hear nor talk about anything that was against anything he wanted to do.

So long as the Lord was talking about freely doing anything Adam wanted, He was happy about that. But as soon as the Lord got negative and said there was something he could not do or be condemned and die for it, then Adam stopped listening and hardened his heart, and had lust in his heart to do it at that time. He just didn't go through with it, until after Eve tested the fruit.

Adam was really a pitiful coward as well as sinner.

Thanks again. I'll be posting a thread on how the Lord messed up when He talked about sin with a real believer. Same goes with all the prophets and apostles of Christ.

 

[Always Believing]

Never.

You can never be separated from God's Spirit, if you are born again into the Spirit of God, by God's Holy Spirit.
Spiritual UNION with GOD is ETERNAL.
Eternal life is not temporary.
There is no such thing as being separated Spiritually from God, once God Himself has birthed you into His Spirit.
There is no such thing as being "UN-BORN again" tho heretics will happily make you believe this can happen, as that makes their father the devil happy, when they deceive you that way.
And they do love to please their dark abba.

If you have not been born again, then confess your unbelief, (sin) and be born again by GOD, and then give God some praise for His Salvation that always keeps you as "the righteousness of GOD" 'IN Christ".

If you are trying to say sinning doesn't cause us separation from God, then your teaching is a hopeless case.


Behold, the LORD’s hand is not shortened, That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear. (Isiah 59.1-2)

And if you try to say God isn't still saying the same thing to His people today, because we are called Christians now rather than Israelites and Jews, then your case is hopeless, and I don't waste any time trying to understand nor argue with people that have no problem with turning the Bible on it's head to teach some strange new thing they have come up with. It is strange to say confessing sin to Jesus by faith is somehow heresy. I mean, who else are we going to confess our sinning to? That sounds like the Catholic priesthood that demands they be let in on everything everyone else is doing. It's also strange to somehow confess unbelief to Jesus, when we can only confess by faith to be heard by Him. The only reason anyone even comes to Jesus at all, is because they have faith in Him already. Are we supposed to tell Jesus we don't believe Him, so that He'll somehow forgive us for it?

I also don't need anyone telling me how to sin without shame. I want to hear from them that can tell me how to stop sinning and keep from sinning like Peter says in his second epistle.

This is why I ceased allowing all these teachings that Christians come up with to persuade me to do differently than I already am, and has gotten me further with Jesus than I ever thought possible. And when I start seeing teaching that makes no biblical nor common sense, then I just move on. I don't have time nor inclination to waste trying to figure out strange things or weird new ideas. I just chalk it up to Christians that think they have to be really out there in order to be uniquely enlightened. I like to hear the Ezra teachers that just quote the Bible and show the common sense of it that any one with a standard amount of intelligence can understand and then just decide if we want to do it or not.

So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading. (Nehemiah 8.8)

 

[Always Believing]

God saves SINNERS.
Christ came to save SINNERS.
All sinners are enemies of God, ungodly.
That is everyone.

God saves us when "we were YET Ungodly".
We didnt go to Jesus because we were living Holy, we went to the Cross when we were sinners and God saved us, forgave us, and gave us His Righteousness because we gave our FAITH to God..
"Faith is counted AS Righteousness"...

Jesus literally becomes our SIN, and is judged for them all on the Cross, and the BELIEVER is given Christ's righteousness, as "the Gift of Righteousness".
And we are given this while we are yet sinners......... and we become a "new Creation in Christ". "Made Righteous". "born again".

Understand that God came here, in Christ, and died on the Cross for the sin of the entire world of people....from 2000+ yrs ago, right until today and tomorrow.
So, sin is forgiven them, but this forgiveness is not applied to everyone. Its only applied to the BELIEVER who gives God their Faith in Christ, who then becomes born again by the Spirit of God.

I see where you are coming from a false conception many Christians have about forgiving others. Many Christians who have real real evil done to them or others they know and love, and then talk about how they had to forgive them like God forgives us. But that's not the way of forgiveness in the Bible. We are told to forgive them that ask of it from us, just as we are to confess from the heart to Jesus to be forgiven by Him.

If someone doing us evil doesn't even confess it and ask to be forgiven, there is no forgiveness we can give them, and that'
s the same with God. How can we forgive someone who doesn't even want it or never knows about it? We are not to allow anger and bitterness to continue in our own hearts over it, but that's not forgiving someone. That's just letting go of the bitter memory for our own sake.

So you are teaching a false Christian idea about forgiving others and taken it to the extreme, that Jesus has somehow forgiven the whole world, and they know nothing about it, because they haven't bothered to ask Him for it, nor do they even care. The gospel message is not that the world has been forgiven by God and already saved, but is all about hearing how we can be forgiven by faith in Jesus and confession from the heart. We don't need to work, beg, or steal for it, but simply ask from the heart.

The price Jesus paid for by His death was what it took for us to be forgiven by faith. He has paid the price by which we can be forgiven by God if we come to him meekly and confess our sins to Him and not before. The world is not already forgiven and the world is not already saved. If that were the case then the god of this world has finally found forgiveness and salvation from God too. If his world is already forgiven and saved, then so is he.

 

[Always Believing]

What you are reteaching from your false teachers is a doctrine of demons. Sinners do NOT go to heaven. That is why we need Jesus to free us from sin, not just cover our sin like the blood of bulls and goats.
1 John 3:8
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

So, you are of the devil if you have never been freed from willful sinning by Jesus who was manifest (born) to take away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. We are no longer slaves to sin, but to righteousness, Romans 6, and God calls us now His children, not sinners. Sinners are slaves, and do not live forever in the house of God. John 8:32-36.

Jesus said, we must be born again. And it takes more than knowing who Jesus is. Satan doesn't care if you know about Jesus, just as long as you keep sinning. The devil knows he owns you when you willfully sin, and he owns many false teachers who seek out those with itching ears to fill their pews that will buy their false doctrines.

I've already agreed with someone else about the same thing. Since I first wrote this teaching, I have changed it for the better. I still believe if we sin, that it is different than before when we were oblivious to the Lord and all we cared about was sinning as much as we could and loving every minute of it. That has changed, but not the fact that any sinning is still of the devil and we pay the same price as before and as anyone else sinning like him.

Yes if we sin we are doing the devil's work and needs to be destroyed from our lives, and we can confess sinning to be forgiven like anyone else, and pray and work it out with Jesus by faith how He can destroy the devil's works from us. I have found the best way for that from someone on this site, is to show ourselves friendly with Jesus to be a best friend of His and not just a servant that does disservice to Him at times. We don't treat best friends the same as master and bosses and judges. We make ourselves best friends with Him, and He shows us how He is the best friend anyone could possibly have. No law is needed for that to tell us not to betray our best friend on earth. Now that I want to be with Jesus my friend all the time I don't care about what the devil wants to do.

 

[MatthewG]

Christians are sinners, but not of the devil

It was never the devils fault, that I - choose to make a decision be it by the flesh.

People use "insanity plea - or the devil made me do it", "it was the devil or demon in me." Which doesn't take in responsibility that really it was their own decision.

Say a person gets a phone call and she gets mad at the person, and there are other factors making your life hectic. That all of a sudden you are mad at the person who called you, and you take it out of your child by throwing them off the bridge you are walking on.

These types of things happen daily, people murder, kill, steal, manipulation, abuse, and all of us are capable of making decisions for ourselves and acting up our own desires without any need from the help of the devil, who has already been taken care of.

I do believe like "School spirit", that the spirit of hatred can be around, or the spirit of lust, or the spirit of manipulation, or the spirit of abuse, still exist in the world that compels us perhaps by our own decisions we make with-in our soul.

"Looking into a store as a child, and you see candy. Upon leaving your mother and dad are not looking and you are compelled by your desire to have that candy, you steal it. In the car on the way home, your mother and dad are driving, and you are in the very back seat of the car fixing to unravel the candy and your mom hears the crinkling, and the car comes to a halt by dad."

This is just the natural learning process for all of us as we grow up, some have good direction, some have bad direction either way it goes all of us have made mistakes, and even premeditated choices.

Where our heart is where our treasures are, be it on heaven or on earth. Our earthly passions by nature is what was mentioned before, lust, greed, hatred, manipulation, sexual pleasures, and the like, are all nature and not spiritual and not part of God. The Spirit brings forth peace, mercy, faithfulness, kindness, faithfulness, patience, long-suffering, and the like manner.

 

[Behold]

If you are trying to say sinning doesn't cause us separation from God, then your teaching is a hopeless case.

All of us are separated from God because of our sin.
This is resolved by Christ on the Cross.
Its why God came here as a virgin born man, AlwaysBelieving., which is to end our separation from God, by forgiving us of all our sin.
This is the Cross of Christ and the finished work of Jesus.

 

[Behold]

If someone doing us evil doesn't even confess it and ask to be forgiven, there is no forgiveness we can give them, and that'
s the same with God.

It does not matter if they ask for your forgiveness.
Notice that the world didnt ask God to forgive ? Yet God as Christ died on the Cross for them all.

See, God loved us first, when we had no use for God.
God forgave us all our sin, 2000 yrs ago, before we ever went to the Cross.

Never hold unforgiveness in your heart.
Always remember that God forgave you all your sin, and you didn't deserve it, nor do I.
So, we dont forgive because they deserve it, we forgive because God forgave us first.

 

[Always Believing]

All of us are separated from God because of our sin.
This is resolved by Christ on the Cross.
Its why God came here as a virgin born man, AlwaysBelieving., which is to end our separation from God, by forgiving us of all our sin.
This is the Cross of Christ and the finished work of Jesus.

I apologize. I completely misunderstood you when you said born again Christians can never be separated from God. I thought you meant even if sinning. I was hasty in implying you are willing to change the Bible to suit your own teaching. The problem is that it is possible for Christians to sin and so we still need an advocate to confess to for forgiveness as per 1 John 2.1. I wouldn't say that it is impossible for born again children of God to separate ourselves from His love and grace. I know we are commanded to and can and ought to live like Jesus through temptation without sinning, but that is obviously not always the case for all of us and we need our advocate if we do sin and separate ourselves from God and His fellowship. I can say I am not sinning at this time and I am delivered from works of the flesh unlike the past, and I don't worry about tomorrow but I wouldn't say I will not possibly sin in the future and walk away from Jesus' friendship and fellowship. I certainly don't want to in any way though.

 

[Behold]

The problem is that it is possible for Christians to sin and so we still need an advocate to confess to for forgiveness.

Forgiveness is found on the Cross.
Confessing sin, does not get you "re-forgiven" or "saved again".
All it does is help you out of your guilt trip and condemnation, until you do it again.
So, the answer is not to stay in "sin and confess then repeat".
Isn't that obvious to you? It should be by now.
I provided the answer to this discipleship failure, in a couple of recent Threads.

 

[Always Believing]

It does not matter if they ask for your forgiveness.
Notice that the world didnt ask God to forgive ? Yet God as Christ died on the Cross for them all.

See, God loved us first, when we had no use for God.
God forgave us all our sin, 2000 yrs ago, before we ever went to the Cross.

Never hold unforgiveness in your heart.
Always remember that God forgave you all your sin, and you didn't deserve it, nor do I.
So, we dont forgive because they deserve it, we forgive because God forgave us first.

In Old Testament times people certainly did desire and ask for His forgiveness. That's what the blood of bulls and goats was all about. That is why Gentiles came into the family of Israel in the first place, to be forgiven of sinning by the true LORD in a manner in which the other gods of the nations did not provide and their worshippers did not care about who only wanted power for themselves and over their enemies.

And he shall do with the bull as he did with the bull as a sin offering; thus he shall do with it. So the priest shall make atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. (Leviticus 4.20)

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered. (Psalm 32.1)

1 John 2.2 is not about how all the world is forgiven but about how the Lamb of God is not just for the Jews but also the Gentiles of the world. The Bible says nothing about the world being forgiven. The propitiation of the Lamb is the means to be forgiven, not the forgiveness itself.


What you are talking about is not forgiving others but ourselves when God has forgiven us already by confession to Him. Forgiving others requires they be involved first. In the ancient world of lords and masters and slaves and the the lowly, forgiveness was entirely a physical matter of live and death and impoverishment and prison. Jesus comes to go beyond the natural manner of things to bring in the spiritual first. He teachers that forgiving others is not just for their sake, but also for our own. He is not saying that forgiving others is only for our sake and has nothing to do with them personally. That is called be so spiritually mined we become no earthly good. We are not to allow bitterness and hateful revenge defile our own hearts, but we cannot possibly forgive another for their sake who does not want it or is even dead.

Let's look at what your teaching does to the Bible.

The Bible cannot say everyone is already forgiven by God or else the Bible wouldn't say we are to confess our sins to be forgiven by Him. (1 John 1.9)

Being forgiven is the redemption, reconciliation, and adopting of sons by God. If God has forgiven the other, then the other has received and now has all the spiritual blessings of God and is headed for the resurrection of the saints and eternal life forever with God.

Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. (Eph 1.5-7)

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. (Colossians 1.13-14)

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. (1 John 3.1-2)

Those who are now forgiven are now called the sons of God that are redeemed, reconciled, and adopted into the family of God. Saying God has already and does still forgive all the world is saying that all the world are His sons by birth and adoption, whether they believe or know it or not. You may have already forgiven the world and just want them to believe adn act like it, but God certainly has not. You are teaching all the world is now saved by grace alone.

You are saying all the world has been forgiven by God since Jesus died on the cross, and yet no one including the Jews could be forgiven with the blood of the Lamb until after His resurrection.

And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (1 Corinthians 15.16-18)

Only until the resurrection came to pass could men be forgiven and not perish in their sins.

I see you have a great passion for your teaching and I am starting to wonder what is so important about it to you personally, but anyway you are teaching all the world are now forgiven sons of God, confession is not necessary to be forgiven because He already has forgiven everyone, and the resurrection is not necessary to be forgiven and not perish in our sins. You need to consider these things and maybe adjust your teaching.

 

[Behold]

In Old Testament times people certainly did desire and ask for His forgiveness. That's what the blood of bulls and goats was all about.

you are teaching all the world are now forgiven sons of God, confession is not necessary to be forgiven because He already has forgiven everyone, and the resurrection is not necessary to be forgiven and not perish in our sins. .

First, you have described the Jews as "People asked for forgiveness".
And that is not the case.
God designed a system of "shed blood", "for the remission of sins' and gave it to His "chosen people" for a covering that was temporary.
Later, God died on the Cross as the "one time eternal sacrifice for SIN", and that is : Salvation....the OFFER..

2 Corinthians 5:19

Next.....

I have never said, nor do i teach, that everyone is saved, or that you dont have to be forgiven.
You do.
You have to repent of unbelief, and turn to God, with your faith in Christ.

What i teach is pure Pauline Theology. And you should Google that, or WIKI it, or find out exactly what that is, and then'll you understand, hopefully, what im doing here so much.

See, there is a DAY of Salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, and on that day, they are BORN AGAIN, and become "a new Creation IN Christ".
That is an ETERNAL "Son of God" status, that is based only on God accepting our FAITH to then give us HIS "gift of Salvation".
If this has happened to you, then you now belong to God. Not because you tried to be good, but because you were a sinner, hell bound, and went to the Cross and God met you there with His SALVATiON.= who is JESUS.
So, that is ACCOMPLISHED..

= As of this day, this new Spiritual birth-day, you are eternally become "the righteousness of GOD, IN CHRIST", and that is not based on you being good later.
Its based only and always on CHRIST's CROSS where our Redemption was finished 2000 yrs ago.

 

[Always Believing]

First, you have described the Jews as "People asked for forgiveness".
And that is not the case.
God designed a system of "shed blood", "for the remission of sins' and gave it to His "chosen people" for a covering that was temporary.
Later, God died on the Cross as the "one time eternal sacrifice for SIN", and that is : Salvation....the OFFER..

2 Corinthians 5:19

Next.....

I have never said, nor do i teach, that everyone is saved, or that you dont have to be forgiven.
You do.
You have to repent of unbelief, and turn to God, with your faith in Christ.

What i teach is pure Pauline Theology. And you should Google that, or WIKI it, or find out exactly what that is, and then'll you understand, hopefully, what im doing here so much.

See, there is a DAY of Salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, and on that day, they are BORN AGAIN, and become "a new Creation IN Christ".
That is an ETERNAL "Son of God" status, that is based only on God accepting our FAITH to then give us HIS "gift of Salvation".
If this has happened to you, then you now belong to God. Not because you tried to be good, but because you were a sinner, hell bound, and went to the Cross and God met you there with His SALVATiON.= who is JESUS.
So, that is ACCOMPLISHED..

= As of this day, this new Spiritual birth-day, you are eternally become "the righteousness of GOD, IN CHRIST", and that is not based on you being good later.
Its based only and always on CHRIST's CROSS where our Redemption was finished 2000 yrs ago.

If we are forgiven, then we are saved. That is what salvation begins with and is what being forgiven is all about to be forgiven reconciled and saved by God.

But I do think I see what you are trying to really say now. You are saying the sins of the world are already forgiven but the sinners of the world themselves are not yet forgiven until they believe Jesus? If so that is a distinction without a difference. I am forgiven when my sins are forgiven. God does not forgive the sin of a person and not yet forgive the person.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses. (Col 2.13)

The person is forgiven when the sin is forgiven. This kind of necessary explanation is not healthy. When our effort to teach the Bible becomes without natural understanding, so that we must show the obvious from Scripture to return to natural understanding, then that's when it's time to reassess what we are trying to teach.

The propitiation made by Jesus is the means of becoming forgiven for all sin, not the forgiveness itself for the sin or the person.

You do see how saying the sins of the world are forgiven can at least mean the world is forgiven and so the world is reconciled and saved to God. Right?

 

[Always Believing]

First, you have described the Jews as "People asked for forgiveness".
And that is not the case.
God designed a system of "shed blood", "for the remission of sins' and gave it to His "chosen people" for a covering that was temporary.
Later, God died on the Cross as the "one time eternal sacrifice for SIN", and that is : Salvation....the OFFER..

2 Corinthians 5:19

Next.....

I have never said, nor do i teach, that everyone is saved, or that you dont have to be forgiven.
You do.
You have to repent of unbelief, and turn to God, with your faith in Christ.

What i teach is pure Pauline Theology. And you should Google that, or WIKI it, or find out exactly what that is, and then'll you understand, hopefully, what im doing here so much.

See, there is a DAY of Salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, and on that day, they are BORN AGAIN, and become "a new Creation IN Christ".
That is an ETERNAL "Son of God" status, that is based only on God accepting our FAITH to then give us HIS "gift of Salvation".
If this has happened to you, then you now belong to God. Not because you tried to be good, but because you were a sinner, hell bound, and went to the Cross and God met you there with His SALVATiON.= who is JESUS.
So, that is ACCOMPLISHED..

= As of this day, this new Spiritual birth-day, you are eternally become "the righteousness of GOD, IN CHRIST", and that is not based on you being good later.
Its based only and always on CHRIST's CROSS where our Redemption was finished 2000 yrs ago.

We are to repent of sins and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ that we can be forgiven all sins and have power of God not to sin.

The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel. (Mark 1.15)

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3.18)

It's not possible to repent of unbelief unless we first believe, which is not possible if we do not believe it. You say things that require training in sophistry to unravel. Where does the Bible ever say repent of not believing? Not believing is the condemnation, because it is the reason we don't repent of sinning, because we don't want to as per (John 3.19). To repent of our unbelief would be us repenting of something by our own power to force ourselves to do something about the very way we are. That alone goes against being being born of God by faith and not by our own will as per John 1.12-13

That is why faith first comes by hearing the word and receiving the word as the truth. That is now believing in what we were ignorant of before not of what we did not believe before. People don't keep going to hear the Gospel because they don't believe it and are trying to. They go because they believe it and want to repent and live for God. If we have heard and don't believe it, then there's no hope for us, because we have already refused His word and Him.

 

[robert derrick]

The propitiation made by Jesus is the means of becoming forgiven for all sin, not the forgiveness itself for the sin or the person.

I like this. Good job. I've been searching for a way to say the same thing, and I think you got it good.

The way is now made open for all by Jesus' death and resurrection, but not all are now in the way nor want the way, and until we are in the way of Jesus, there is no way we are forgiven, reconciled, nor saved by the Father.

And also as you said, without the resurrection, no one would be forgiven of anything with a clear conscience. That is showing that His sacrifice is proven better than bulls and goats by His resurrection from the dead, so that now His blood is forever spiritually alive to forgive, cleanse, and deliver from all sinning.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus' flesh and blood is nothing more than our own, but it was His life in the flesh that means everything, as with ours, and without His resurrection, then the death of His body would have just been another honest and good man dying unjustly. Shedding his mortal blood is the sacrifice for us, but rising again with His spiritual blood is for our justification.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

People are idolizing the cross in a way it was never intended, that they can teach things that make no sense, just to justify themselves doctrinally, while still doing sinful works of flesh.

Keep it up.

 

[Behold]

But I do think I see what you are trying to really say now. You are saying the sins of the world are already forgiven but the sinners of the world themselves are not yet forgiven until they believe Jesus?

2000 yrs ago Jesus died on the Cross becoming " the "one time eternal sacrifice for Sin".

What He finished on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago = THE BLOOD ATONEMENT.. = saves people tomorrow, and today, and forever.


"The GIFT of Salvation" was created 200O yrs before you were born, and it came to you as "faith comes by hearing the Gospel"

And "all who BELIEVE IT, believe on JESUS, shall be saved".... = Born again.

 

[Always Believing]

First, you have described the Jews as "People asked for forgiveness".
And that is not the case.
God designed a system of "shed blood", "for the remission of sins' and gave it to His "chosen people" for a covering that was temporary.
Later, God died on the Cross as the "one time eternal sacrifice for SIN", and that is : Salvation....the OFFER..

2 Corinthians 5:19

Next.....

I have never said, nor do i teach, that everyone is saved, or that you dont have to be forgiven.
You do.
You have to repent of unbelief, and turn to God, with your faith in Christ.

What i teach is pure Pauline Theology. And you should Google that, or WIKI it, or find out exactly what that is, and then'll you understand, hopefully, what im doing here so much.

See, there is a DAY of Salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, and on that day, they are BORN AGAIN, and become "a new Creation IN Christ".
That is an ETERNAL "Son of God" status, that is based only on God accepting our FAITH to then give us HIS "gift of Salvation".
If this has happened to you, then you now belong to God. Not because you tried to be good, but because you were a sinner, hell bound, and went to the Cross and God met you there with His SALVATiON.= who is JESUS.
So, that is ACCOMPLISHED..

= As of this day, this new Spiritual birth-day, you are eternally become "the righteousness of GOD, IN CHRIST", and that is not based on you being good later.
Its based only and always on CHRIST's CROSS where our Redemption was finished 2000 yrs ago.

I have never believed in what is called OSAS. As a sinner I despised such hypocrites doing the same as me and then saying they are righteous in the eyes of God because they believe in Jesus, while everyone else is the hell bound sinner as you say. I used to mock grace because of that I've also learned that the Jews were doing much the same thing by saying they were still God's chosen people simply because they had the law and the heathen Gentiles didn't.

You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? (Romans 2.21)

There was no forgiveness, salvation, nor redemption until Jesus' resurrection. And doing good is being born again and saved.

Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God. (3 John 1.11)

 

[Always Believing]

I like this. Good job. I've been searching for a way to say the same thing, and I think you got it good.

The way is now made open for all by Jesus' death and resurrection, but not all are now in the way nor want the way, and until we are in the way of Jesus, there is no way we are forgiven, reconciled, nor saved by the Father.

And also as you said, without the resurrection, no one would be forgiven of anything with a clear conscience. That is showing that His sacrifice is proven better than bulls and goats by His resurrection from the dead, so that now His blood is forever spiritually alive to forgive, cleanse, and deliver from all sinning.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus' flesh and blood is nothing more than our own, but it was His life in the flesh that means everything, as with ours, and without His resurrection, then the death of His body would have just been another honest and good man dying unjustly. Shedding his mortal blood is the sacrifice for us, but rising again with His spiritual blood is for our justification.

Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

People are idolizing the cross in a way it was never intended, that they can teach things that make no sense, just to justify themselves doctrinally, while still doing sinful works of flesh.

Keep it up.

Thanks.