Everyone Who Argues Against the Deity of Jesus

[Raccoon1010]

Internet discussion forums, where a popular pastime is accusing those who don’t agree with us of ignoring scripture.

When I was still teaching I required all of my students - trinitarians and non-trinitarians - to do something which all of my students - trinitarians and non-trinitarians - hated to do: spend one hour per week on an internet discussion forum (from a pre-approved list containing three options which students were free to choose from, additional forums could be substituted with my approval) and keep a journal on their activity. My students - trinitarians and non-trinitarians - complained bitterly and it wasn’t long before they began calling it “the gutter assignment”.

It is a gutter assignment isn't it. I don't usually engage in discussions and usually stick to pleasant and uplifting conversations and topics. But I do like to weigh in on certain topics every once in a while.

And BTW, some of the worst doctrine presented is brought about by ignoring scripture that counters that doctrine. The logic of that doctrine is blinding.

 

[Matthias]

It is a gutter assignment isn't it. I don't usually engage in discussions and usually stick to pleasant and uplifting conversations and topics. But I do like to weigh in on certain topics every once in a while.

Yes, it was “a gutter assignment.” Many of my students planned to become evangelists. They had pre-conceived ideas of what it would be like. Part of my responsibility as a teacher was to prepare them for what they would be facing in the world. They didn’t like what they saw. Some persevered and became evangelists; others decided evangelism wasn’t the right track for them.

And BTW, some of the worst doctrine presented is brought about by ignoring scripture that counters that doctrine. The logic of that doctrine is blinding.

 

[marks]

One sentence in SOF clearly states "We believe Jesus was the Son of God", but if you're saying other parts say he was God, perhaps the SOF needs to be re-written to clarify things..:)

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

The below clearly outlines the core, closed-handed, and Christian orthodox issues that we expect members of Christianity Board to uphold. We accept that this declaration essentially defines Christianity for Christianity Board. Disagreement with the below, we believe, places one outside the realm of reasonable orthodox Christianity.

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a completely sinless human life and offered himself freely on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all, according to God’s plan revealed from the beginning. After three days, Jesus arose from the dead to demonstrate his power over death. He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 9:6-7, Matthew 1:22-25, John 1:1-5, John 14:10-30, Acts 1:9-11, Romans 1:3-4, I Corinthians 15:3-4, I Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:3, Hebrews 4:14-15)

We believe that the Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and Son (Jesus). He is present in this world as an intercessor to make men and women aware of their need for Jesus the Christ. The Holy Spirit resides in every believer from the moment of salvation. He empowers the Christian with strength for living, understanding the truth, witnessing to others, and in doing what is right. (John 14:16-17, John 16:7-13, Acts 1:8, I Corinthians 2:12, I Corinthians 3:16, II Corinthians 3:17, Galatians 5:16-25, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 5:18-21)

Much love!

And even though you have pointed this out we are still being invaded by sect and cults who do not believe in the full Gospel. It has now become a very big problem as where once we could talk with others of similar views we find we are being taken over by people who argue against the SOF.

 

[marks]

And even though you have pointed this out we are still being invaded by sect and cults who do not believe in the full Gospel. I has now become a very big problem as where once we could talk with others of similar views we find we are being taken over by people who argue against the SOF.

Yes, similar views. But whether or not Jesus is our Creator God is rather at the core of things, I think! And when you conclude that Jesus is not God, that does not exist in a vacuum. So much else is affected.

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

You’ve attacked the character of forum members (a violation of the forum rules) and you’re talking to the wrong people about your complaint.

Take your case to the those who can carry out your desire - the owner, the administrators, the moderators - if they choose to.

 

[marks]

You’ve attacked the character of forum members (a violation of the forum rules) and you’re talking to the wrong people about your complaint.

Take your case to the those who can carry out your desire - the owner, the administrators, the moderators - if they choose to.

I've asked a question. You can answer as is appropriate for yourself, or not at all. If you don't like the answer, I didn't do that.

My question was directed to the relevant members. I've even offered examples answers I would understand. Not that those are the only answers. You don't have to give an answer to me. I'm asking a question, because to me it's meaningful.

Myself, I would not join a forum that required I agree with a doctrine I don't, but that's just me.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Yes, similar views. But whether or not Jesus is our Creator God is rather at the core of things, I think! And when you conclude that Jesus is not God, that does not exist in a vacuum. So much else is affected.

Much love!

Yes absolutely. And I know of at least one who does not believe in the three in one God but who doesn't push it on others and is gentle and wise.

 

[marks]

John 1:18 KJV
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I believe the apostle John.

Yes Abraham, Moses, Aaron, the elders of Israel, all these met with YHWH, ate with Him, or in Abraham's case fed Him a meal. Abraham spoke in person with YHWH under the oak tree.

How do you account for that?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes Abraham, Moses, Aaron, the elders of Israel, all these met with YHWH, ate with Him, or in Abraham's case fed Him a meal. Abraham spoke in person with YHWH under the oak tree.

How do you account for that?

Much love!

I know it’s truly crazy, they spoke to Donkeys and snakes. When God told them to circumcise their hearts they cut the skin off the ends of their wankies. They wrestled with him, and actually thought he resided in a little box behind a curtain, so they killed probably millions of animals to try and appease him, although the prophets were telling them he never commanded burnt offerings and sacrifice so they killed all of them. Stephen tells them in Acts chapter 7 that they were worshiping Moloch for forty years in the wilderness, Jesus tells them he’s the temple where God resides. It all sounds pretty archaic to me.

What do you think, the veil that rent, was it Jesus’s flesh as Paul writes in Hebrews or do you believe it was this literal curtain where God was allegedly behind in a temple made with hands?

 

[Matthias]

Nothing will change until those who can bring about change decide to do so.

I’ve publicly asked them and they’ve publicly answered. I abide by their decision and encourage others to do the same.

In that public conversation I also said that if their decision changed in the future that I would abide by it and would encourage others to do the same.

I’m here because I choose to be. My reasons for being here are many. Those in charge of the board have said that I’m welcome to be and that I’m free to post in all sections of the board.

As for those who don’t like that I’m here and don’t like that those in charge have welcomed me to be and given me the run of the board - I don’t rush around the board posting in every thread about the Trinity. That’s by design. If those who are complaining appreciate it, that’s nice. I did it with you in mind. If those complaining don’t appreciate it, so be it.

 

[Waiting on him]

In the Old Testament God allegedly tells them to kill all their neighbors, The light comes into the world and says I have a new command, love your enemy. It’s all rather conflicting.

Could it be possible that no man had ever seen God at any time, And God truly is love and spirit?

 

[Dropship]

Christianity Board Statement of Faith
..We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is co-equal with the Father...

How can he be the son and the father at the same time?..:)
"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest" (Hebrews 3:1 NIV)
The definition of an apostle (from the Greek apostolos) is "one who is sent" or "one commissioned", so who exactly sent Jesus?

 

[marks]

How can he be the son and the father at the same time?..:)
"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest" (Hebrews 3:1 NIV)
The definition of an apostle (from the Greek apostolos) is "one who is sent" or "one commissioned", so who exactly sent Jesus?

So then do you recognize that this is what the SoF is saying?

I understand your objection, it's the most common I hear by far, the intellectual objection that "three cannot be one". Still, I'm just speaking here of CB's Statement of Faith. That Jesus is One of the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, One God.

That the SoF states this is one thing. That you disagree with the SoF is another thing. So far you haven't really agreed that this is what the SoF says.

Much love!

 

[Dropship]

..That you disagree with the SoF is another thing..

The SOF says Jesus was the son, but it also says he was God, so perhaps it should be re-written to make it perfectly clear where exactly it stands?
Anyway I'm sure you agree that the scriptures are more important than any SOF, and one scripture says-
"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
But because you and some others don't believe that, you're definitely candidates for the naughty step..;)

 

[Pearl]

I hear by far, the intellectual objection that "three cannot be one".

But we do not see the truth that God is three persons with our intellect but with our spirits through faith.

 

[Brakelite]

Yes, it was “a gutter assignment.” Many of my students planned to become evangelists. They had pre-conceived ideas of what it would be like. Part of my responsibility as a teacher was to prepare them for what they would be facing in the world. They didn’t like what they saw. Some persevered and became evangelists; others decided evangelism wasn’t the right track for them.

Pity. We are all called to be evangelists.

 

[marks]

Pity. We are all called to be evangelists.

Maybe they weren't ready for it. Maybe they didn't have the heart for it. Calling it a "gutter assignment" to me speaks more about the one who said that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The SOF says Jesus was the son, but it also says he was God, so perhaps it should be re-written to make it perfectly clear where exactly it stands?
Anyway I'm sure you agree that the scriptures are more important than any SOF, and one scripture says-
"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
But because you and some others don't believe that, you're definitely candidates for the naughty step..;)

Of course I believe Jesus is the Son of God. Why ever would you say such a thing?

This goes back to the same objection everyone makes, "three can't be one", "the Son can't be the Father", "the Trinity just makes no sense!"

But this is no cause for you to misrepresent my beliefs. Now is it?

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

The SOF says Jesus was the son, but it also says he was God, so perhaps it should be re-written to make it perfectly clear where exactly it stands?
Anyway I'm sure you agree that the scriptures are more important than any SOF, and one scripture says-
"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
But because you and some others don't believe that, you're definitely candidates for the naughty step..;)

I don't think you could get much clearer than this!

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)