In regard to what Jesus said to Peter, it appears that the Apostle John's presumption is in error.

[The Third One]

Sadistic nonsense that goes against everything to do with the Living God and Jesus. Rocky wrote one-third of what the Church cherry-picked for the New Testament canon, but Rocky never wrote a Gospel. Had he, his sadistic “Destroy the Body of Sin” concept would have portrayed Jesus as being serious about having us chop off our hands and feet and corkscrew our eyes out of our sockets. When Jesus picks up that little child and sets him on his knee (you know, in Matthew’s Gospel), Rocky would have inserted a pivotal lesson into the scene. In Rocky’s Gospel, Jesus performs a parabolic miracle:

Gospel of Rocky: Suddenly the little child’s feet and hands are missing, leaving useless nubs. Then, to everyone’s amazement, the child’s cute little eyes give way to empty sockets.

The lesson? Yeah, we get it. THAT’S when Jesus says, “Unless you BECOME like this little child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You must destroy your body of sin.”

By the way, if anyone is truly dimwitted enough to think that Jesus LITERALLY suggested that we should cut off our “sinful” God-Given hands and feet in order to bypass Hell and enter Heaven, I encourage these within the congregation to be near an Emergency Room whenever removing body parts by way of axe, cleaver or corkscrew. The Church does not teach this saying in context. Jesus uses the analogy as a satirical reminder to a certain group of his Apostles (who loved to gather at the water cooler). Always, his gory punch-lines of self-mutilation follow these Apostles arguing among themselves over which of them will be the greatest in God’s eye. Jesus is warning these Apostles not to become like Pharisee-Rocky; for, the Pharisees considered themselves “the greatest in God’s eye.” The subtext of the joke is found ALL over the Gospels.

Jesus auto-flips the RED idiot-light on to any Pharisee-Extremist convinced by Master Law that the way to save yourself from sin is to remove the temptation of sin from your midst. What was the Pharisee-Method of accomplishing this? Stoning the sinner to death. In other words, cutting the sinner off from the sanctified community. This is the Pharisee-Extremist-Approved method of sprucing up the neighborhood. It is best to cut your sinning brother off from the community, to keep your sinning brother from causing you to sin. This common Pharisee-Extremist-Practice (separating the sinner from the sanctified) led to a common Pharisee-Extremist-Saying. A saying that every die-hard Pharisee-Extremist judges to be *Good*:

“Better to enter Heaven by yourself than Hell with your brother.”

Jesus tried everything to convince the Pharisees of their tragic error. Finally, resorting to satire. His satire applies to anyone who wants to be in the Pharisee-Extremist Country Club. You know, working self-righteously to be the greatest in God’s eye. You can cut off a whole world of sinners from your sanctified circle; but, then, you will still have yourself to contend with. What then? What about YOU? By such logic, what should YOU do when your Religion conflicts with your own body and YOUR BODY causes YOU to “sin”?

Jesus scolds the Pharisee-Extremist candidate logically and satirically:

“So, then, what if YOUR HAND causes you to sin? Even if it is your right hand? What should you do, then? (By such logic) cut it off from you as well.”

The satire continues, richly. Jesus expands upon the *Good* old Pharisee saying, “Better to enter Heaven by yourself than Hell with your brother”:

“Better to enter Heaven with one hand than Hell with two.”

Jesus is on a roll. Killing the stone-throwing-killer candidate... with laughter:

“And if YOUR EYE causes you to sin — even if it is your best eye — gouge it out from you as well. Better for you (stone-throwing murderers) to enter Heaven with only one eye, than Hell with two.”

These are Rocky’s teachers that Jesus is lampooning. They are the “Organized” reason Rocky has to add “IFS,” “ANDS” and “BUTS” into What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross, so that our “salvation” can work hand-in hand with Pharisee-Extremism.

In Rocky’s Gospel, UP is down. And, DOWN is up. In Rocky’s Gospel, Jesus agrees with Rocky’s Sin-Removing Pharisee-Extremist-Mentors (as opposed to lampooning them). Moreover, in “Rocky’s Gospel,” when the Pharisees hurl the adulteress at Jesus’ feet, Jesus encourages them to stone her to death (truthfully that is exactly what Jesus does). Only, Rocky ignores the stipulation Jesus places upon the Pharisee Country Club and its Lynch-Masters (whom Rocky, himself, considers to be the greatest in God’s eye). What is Jesus’ stipulation? What is his one condition?

“Go ahead. Do your worst. Throw your fatal fastballs at her. Just one condition. He among you who has never sinned, let him be the one to cast the first stone.”

Apparently, Rocky must have missed that part of the story. In Rocky’s Gospel, sure, Jesus saves the woman by encouraging the Pharisees to put their stones down. BUT... only to pick up their shivs to destroy THE BODY of sin. Read ALL about it in “The Gospel According to Rocky”:

“Jesus addressed the Pharisees. ‘Brothers! To clean up this sewer of a world, send not the soul of the sinner AWAY! Rather, we should destroy the body of sin from among us! Son’s of Moses, drop those stones! Take hold of your knives, instead, brothers! Cut OFF from among us the tempting breasts of this adulteress-trollop! And carve that sinful vagina out of her! In this, you will save yourselves from temptation! And, at the same time, purify this woman’s iniquitous flesh!’

“And, as my esteemed brethren approached the wench with their knifes drawn, Jesus calmed the crying sinner. ‘Be still, sister. Do not fret. We are not going to kill you. We are going to DESTROY your BODY OF SIN. Better for you to enter Heaven defeminized, than Hell with two teats and a well-working baby-maker.’”

Satirically obscene? Incontrovertibly absurd? Thank you. Jesus was hoping you would see it that way. Certainly, no more obscene nor absurd than drilling the eyes out of your head. Or cutting off your hands and feet to gain the favor of God and Heaven. Yes, it IS ALL coming back to us now. Jesus did not tell the woman to go and have-the-body-parts-of-a-woman no more. Jesus did not tell the woman to go and have-not a lustful-human-nature anymore. No. To the contrary, Jesus told her, “Go and sin no more.” Recognize the Truth. Metanoeo. Go and be a Slave to Master Sin no more. The Jesus Concept is not about killing the Slave, nor destroying any part of the body of the Slave, nor destroying the nature of the Slave. The Jesus Concept is ALL about killing the Plantation Owner and his overseers. The Gospel of Jesus is ALL about us gaining the power to destroy our self-created Masters.

 

[The Third One]

By us truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, it is our danger, the deadly influence of The Knowledge of Good & Evil, that is destroyed. Not any part of MAN. For, every part of MAN is the Work of the Living God. The Knowledge of Good and Evil is (and always has been) foreign to MAN. IT is MAN’S mental virus, which has taken over MAN. IT has become MAN’S Master.

When a man truly accepts what’s been done for us on the cross, Master Knowledge of Good and Evil is the Old Man who is put to death. However, here, in the Sixth Chapter of Romans, that is certainly not “the old man” Rocky is writing about. No. With a Mouthful of Darkness barking in his ear, Rocky writes about KILLING “the sinful part of MAN.” At this point, Rocky is seriously talking about DESTROYING the very God-Created flesh of MAN. By crucifixion no less. Christianity’s most sadistic atonement theory:

“Jesus died on the cross to KILL our sinful nature.”

And, how, exactly, does Rocky arrive at this profane conclusion? By JUDGMENT. Self-righteous judgment guided by Pharisee roots. Fed by KNOWLEDGE. The Knowledge of Good & Evil. And, then... by SPEAKING. Speaking self-destructive lies inspired by the Miserable Comforter. “MAN is Evil.”

Test the spirits. Which Mouth speaks on behalf of Team Light? And, which Mouth speaks on behalf of Team Darkness?

Mouth 1: Created by the Living God, every part of us is GOOD, including our nature.

Mouth 2: No! MAN has an Evil and sinful nature that needs to be DESTROYED!

The Miserable Comforter blasphemes the Living God, calling the very nature of God’s Creation “Evil.” This voice includes ALL of humanity. Our sinful nature… Rocky’s “old-man” is MAN-made philosophy. Blasphemy, inspired by the Absolute of NOTHING. The rhetoric itself is “old.” Same old garbage. The duality of man. The Good/Evil combo. Nothing more than MAN judging MAN. A judgment created by conscience and fed by... guess what? Our mental illness. Master Knowledge of Good & Evil. This profane philosophy (turned theology) is diametrically opposed to the Living God, to Jesus and to Team Light’s Mission. As usual, best for Jesus to tell you himself:

John 3:17 (KJV) “God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved (RANSOMED).”

As a true acceptor, my reestablished PERFECT State-of-Being has not anything to do with my ability to maintain any given standard of righteousness. My PERFECT State-of-Being has everything to do with my simple gift-taking ability. My ability to truly take — truly accept — what’s been done for me on the cross.

Jesus says, “The road is constricted.” Narrow. Not difficult. Perhaps difficult to find; yes, especially with two-thousand years of Christians talking and worrying about SIN. And, adding a thousand other things for us to do in place of the one and only thing we need to do. Yes, hard to find, but certainly not hard. It is a gift. It does not have to be worked for. And, it certainly does not have to be DIED for. It only has to be truly accepted.

What is the difference in Jesus’ resurrection from Death and us being resurrected out of our Lives? Us never having to truly die. The question is, do we have the WILL to Live?

The WILL to Live is the stronghold of EVERYTHING: Life, the universe and even God Himself. Our choice is based upon our own WILL. What are we WILLING to truly accept.

What do you truly accept? That you have sin? Or that you have PERFECT-Grace?

Under PERFECT-Grace you HAVE NO SIN.

Now that Romans 6:16 is quickly approaching (you can be a Slave of Master Sin... OR... you can be a Slave of Master Law) the Holy Spirit would love to make our TRUE two choices PERFECTLY clear to us:

“You can choose Death or you can choose Life. There is no in between. There is simply one or the other. Would you like to have absolutely NOTHING… or... would you prefer to have absolutely EVERYTHING?”

For eleven continuing verses (Romans 6:3-13) Rocky rants untruth in the midst of ONE Holy Spirit inspired Truth: Us “walking in the newness of Life.” Recognize this one Truth in the midst of ALL the surrounding lies of Team Darkness.

In practice, as we enter the “Baptism of Death” and KILL the “old man” by “destroying our bodies of sin,” how DOES this Diabolical gobbledygook help us defeat sin?

It doesn’t.

With our bodies destroyed, how CAN we “Walk in the newness of Life”?

We cannot.

However, Rocky’s Frankenstein solution to this tragic contradiction is the product of yet another bad day for Rocky: “We must DIE and get new spiritual bodies.” A religious fairytale. Our fleshly bodies are the Living God’s masterpiece. “ALL” is the icing on the Jesus-Cake. The Scriptures tell us, again and again, that ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God. From Adam and onward. Not by flushing our God-Created SELFS out of our God-Created BODIES. No. By flushing ourselves clean of the Knowledge of Good & Evil. Then and only then can we FREELY eat of the Tree of Life. Yes. In the flesh.

Either follow the Scriptures... or... follow a Pharisee-Extremist on a very bad day. A bad trip. Paul’s wonderful mind-expanding High (in the Spirit) has turned into a very bad trip. As we approach the middle of Chapter Six (in Rocky’s letter to the Romans) Rocky’s initial Life-Chapters are killed by “The Baptism of Death.”

“The cross” is rendered Dead as well.

It is SIN, once again, that reigns supreme. Need confirmation? What is the status of “SIN” — here — in the middle of Chapter Six?

IT’S alive! You must fight the battle against SIN! By practicing SELF-righteousness!

Tell ’em Rock. By “Yielding ye your members as instruments of righteousness.”

Calling ALL Church Pilots. Whether you prefer sitting on the rocks (the sidelines) or whether you are finally ready to get up off of your fat asses and help excavate the field, you will know the Truth. And, the Truth will set you FREE. Know the Truth. Read these eleven verses again, in their entirety (Romans 6:3-13). “Test the Spirits,” as your father, Paul, says for you to do. “Test everything.” Test the fruit that comes from Paul’s tree. Be honest. See the Truth. In what context is Rocky talking about sin?

As if IT were real. As if IT has consequence. As if IT is something to battle. As if IT had not been taken AWAY. What is Paul’s up-and-coming solution?

 

[The Third One]

We need something besides “the cross.” We need something beyond “the cross.” We need something extra. Extra! Read ALL about it! Romans, Chapter 6:

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should {walk in newness of life.} 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For, he that is dead is FREED from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we "BELIEVE" that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Team Darkness at ITS finest.

O Death WANTS Master Law to be the Lord of our Lives (dressed up as “Jesus Christ”). What happened to Jesus, the SAVIOR of our Lives? What happened to what’s been done for us on cross?

Never mind ALL that. SIN is back, and we must fight against IT by using our bodies as walking-DEAD instruments of self-earned righteousness!

Old News. Fancy new language for walking in the oldness of Death:

“Yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” Read this for what it is. This is nothing more than a fancy, self-deluded, self-righteous way to walk through Life as... as what?

As Slaves to Sin.

Out of the blue. There it is. Crackling static... (and, thank the Living God for it). Rocky is, once again, hearing THE TEAM-LIGHT CHANNEL. At long last, the Holy Spirit punches through ALL this excrement, exclaiming:

“No! Sin shall NOT have dominion over you!”

This is a “Pentecostal” moment for Rocky. The Holy Spirit has cleared the airbus of ALL other voices. More so than grabbing the steering wheel. The Holy Spirit has pulled back on the emergency brake, hard, bringing the “bird” to a screeching standstill in the middle of the sky. The Holy Spirit has reclaimed the driver’s seat.

The Holy Spirit’s pronouncement (above) has superseded O Death/O Grave — bringing ITS perverse train of thought to a standstill:

Romans 6:14 (KJV) “Sin shall not have dominion over you, for ye are not under the Law, but under Grace!”

 

[The Third One]

Rocky III (The Plane Crash)


Romans 6:14 (Original Greek) “Sin shall NOT lord over you! For, you are not under the law, but under Grace.”

HALT.

Rocky stops. Actually, putting his pen down. You can even sense it in the writing.

Rocky’s HIGH-In-The-Spirit stops. Down comes Rocky. His feet, once again, firmly back on the ground. He is back from the trip. Once again, this is ALL-Rocky. One might “believe” Rocky is wearing golf-shoes instead of sandals. But, no. Those tack-pricks in the earth are from his no-depth Pharisee roots, poking the soil.

His spirit is stuck. Frozen. Not in a holding-pattern. Rather, at a complete standstill. What has just come through his pen (reproduced directly above) and on to the page in front of him (Chapter Six, Verse fourteen, courtesy of the Holy Spirit) goes utterly against the theological superstructure of Rocky’s Religion. THE Religion, supposedly, God-Given to Rocky’s patriarch, Moses. If only Rocky knew. Religion does not come from the Living God. Religion is created by MAN. To Rocky’s well-taught religious-manhood, what the Holy Spirit has just decreed is apostasy. This... is “profane.” To Rocky, the very idea of Grace having more power than the Law — TOTAL POWER over the Law — is heresy.

Blasphemy.

Truth be known, at this point, Rocky stands up and walks AWAY from his writing, actually distancing himself from it. Perhaps never to return to it. Moreover, if he was to return to it at this pivotal moment, it would be for one reason alone. To throw the first five-and-a-half chapters of Romans into a bonfire. Rocky takes a long hike.

What am I saying? he asks himself, as he aimlessly walks. PERFECT righteousness FREELY dolled out to an entire world no longer under the Law? Might work for the godly — for decent upstanding men (like us Pharisees). BUT... such boundlessness would be horribly abused by the remainder of the world. Let us not forget our Principles! Will the doctrine in question make a man a better law-abiding citizen?

Rocky is completely aware of his influence. So empowered (he had always thought) to increase the restraint of the Law. Never to diminish it. Rocky’s Religion is Community-Oriented. Order-Oriented. The working-end of Pharisee-Dogma rests upon Mosaic Law. It is geared toward the social agenda. First and foremost, the proper restraint of the individual.

Jesus understands these sanctimonious thugs inside and out. Speaking about the scribes and Pharisees, Jesus says:

Matthew 23:4 (NLT) “They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

The last thing Pharisee-Rocky would want, is to endorse a GET OUT OF JAIL FOR FREE card: Absolute Grace would only lead to absolute lawlessness. We can’t have people running amuck sinning, now can we? There has to be order!

Throughout the previous five chapters of Romans, Rocky was ALL but automated by the Voice of the Holy Spirit, expressively agreeing that “the cross” was the best thing to have ever happened to humankind. As Rocky ponders these most recent Words of the Holy Spirit, for the first time in his personal “Christ-Crusade,” he fully understands What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross.

Sadly, what never dawns on him, is to simply ACCEPT What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross.

Much more pragmatic for Rocky, at this point in his “walk,” is to formulate a way to FIX What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross.

Unfortunately, Rocky has clicked no personal mileage under PERFECT-Grace. He has no working-knowledge of “the newness of Life.” He has no practical walking-around GOOD-Sense of what a truly FREED mind will actually do for a “grown-up” person.

Like Heaven’s trumpets totally in your face, En Vogue said it best here on planet Earth (in quadraphonic-harmony yet): “FREE your mind! And the rest will follow!”

Of course, one has to truly take PERFECT-Grace to personally experience the impact of PERFECT-Grace: Get EVIL-blind! And, ALL-GOOD will follow!

For Rocky, “ALL-GOOD” is the X-factor upon his theological chalkboard. Rocky has no personal grasp of “You get it ALL, so, naturally, you give it ALL.” Rocky has yet to take a walk with PERFECT-Grace and naturally fall in love with himself — fall in love with his own PERFECTION. Propelling him to quite naturally love others as he naturally loves himself. Rocky has yet to know how true acceptance supercharges a true acceptor’s relationship with the Living God — to truly love God with ALL your mind, with ALL your soul and with ALL your strength. Contraire. As Rocky looks upon the cold numbers on the chalkboard, from the depths of his conscience (run by Master Knowledge of Good & Evil) to the Calyptra-tips of his Pharisee-Roots, Rocky finds himself in a soul-wrenching dilemma. For the fifth time, Rocky questions the Holy Spirit. His question (dumbass question #2) is the fatal shot — the death-blow to PERFECT-Grace.

Perhaps ALL language is inspired rather than coined. The French expression for the “death blow” actually has the Word “grace” in it. The coup de grâce. The fatal shot. It means: To put something out of its misery. A MERCY-killing. In this instance, a killing of Grace. The ball-bearing, obliterating the camshaft — the killing of PERFECT-Grace.

Rocky reclaims his pen only to reduce to ink the feverous question burning a hole straight through the middle of his mind. He wants to SEE his question in print. He is determined to come up with an answer to it that makes the first five chapters of Romans religiously-RIGHT. OR, throw this “heresy” into a fire!

— immediately following — comes Rocky’s Pharisee-Rooted question. Openly, in his letter to the Romans, Rocky questions the very dynamics of PERFECT-Grace:

Romans 6:15 (Original Greek) “What then? May we sin, for we are not under the Law, but under Grace?”

Rocky’s question is born out of pure fear and absolute faithlessness. It is one thing to write about PERFECT-Grace; yes, even to copyright it. Then again, it is a whole other thing to truly accept it. Rocky has not truly accepted what’s been done for him on the cross. Rocky has not truly accepted that ALL of his sins (past, present and future) have been taken AWAY. His question (at Romans 6:15, directly above) is the dead giveaway. A sinless state of mind is not what Rocky is expressing here. Quite the opposite.

 

[The Third One]

“SIN” is, obviously, still a major concern for Rocky. Overwhelmingly obvious. Rocky actually uses the word “SIN” in his question, giving Life and credence to this age-old, meant-to-be-DEAD idea. As if “sin,” this cancelled fairytale of nothingness, were still Real and still had consequence and, in fact had not been taken AWAY.

Rocky puts his pen down a second time. Halted in contemplation. Desperately searching for an answer to his poorly posed question.

Jesus pegged it:

“When trouble or persecution comes because of the Word, the rocky soil quickly falls AWAY.”

The Judging Church sees Rocky as its champion. The ultimate Christian hero who won the Good-News race against ALL “trouble” and “persecution” (Rocky’s jailing and ALL those beatings). However, that is not the “trouble or persecution” Jesus is talking about that “comes because of the Word.” The beatings came to Rocky from “*Good* Old Religion” standing firm, slapping Rocky’s “*Evil* New Religion” across its face. Master Knowledge of Good & Evil always compels *Good* Old Religion to stand firm (like an army) and hold its position.

The true Word of the Holy Spirit was not defeated by any of Rocky’s Temple arrests, harsh whippings or political jailing throughout his mission across the Mediterranean. No. Before Rocky could even finish his introductory letter, the true Word revealed unto Rocky was defeated by Rocky’s “belief” system. Reducing the God’s-honest Truth to a fifteen-to-one underdog.

Rocky’s persecution because of the Word is clearly found in his dilemma expressed so clumsily in his question. (Romans 6:15) The last thing Rocky wants to do is throw the first five and-a-half chapters of his Romans letter into the furnace. Yet, he is fearful that FREE-Grace will emasculate the Law. He has to find a compromise:

This “grace thing” has got to be tempered… with something… or people are going to think they can just do whatever they want, and have a license to sin.

Rocky’s “trouble” and “persecution” is inflicted at the hands of his roots — Pharisee hands, belonging to Rocky’s teachers. They pop out of his head, reach down to his windpipe and strangle him. They tighten the dogma-collar long-stuck around his neck. Twisting it tighter and even tighter. As the iron slave-collar of *Good* Old Religion handily chokes him to death, Rocky’s roots give him the beating of his Life.

One final kick to his stomach. One more uppercut to the chin. Rocky’s ears, recently opened by the Holy Spirit, are now open by battery; vegetated and bleeding profusely.

Spiritually bruised and bloodied, Paul returns yet again to his writing. Finally, his mind has been “made right.” ALL of Rocky’s internal troublemakers and persecutors are now pouring cool, refreshing water over his beaten head and broken body. Making him, once again, whole. With new determination, Rocky sits, taking pen in hand. In answer to his question, Rocky abandons ALL mention of grace entirely, giving humanity his Pharisee-Induced, two-option pick.

Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears, (so I can bloody them, as mine ears have been blooded). You have two choices. You can either be the obedient slave to Master Sin (owner of the cotton fields, here, on the Sin Plantation)... OR... You can be the obedient slave to Master Obedience, owner of the cotton fields next door, on the Self-Righteousness Plantation:

Romans 6:16 (The Living Bible) “Don’t you realize that you can choose your own Master to obey? You can choose Sin (with Death) or else Obedience (with acquittal). The one to whom you offer yourself — he will take you and be your Master and you will be his Slave.”

See ALL that terrible black smoke billowing up?

Oh, my God! What just happened?

It’s Rocky’s jumbo 747 aircraft... littered across the countryside.

Simple aeronautics. What was keeping Rocky’s airbus aloft (since the first Chapter of Romans) was What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross. At Romans 6:16, there is no more What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross. Rocky has now reduced our options to two and only (2) roads:

1) Sin

2) Self-Earned Righteousness

Rocky sees the Law plummeting. So, to gain “lift,” Rocky throws “Grace” out the window in favor of “obeying obedience.” He finds a new voice (amid ALL of his voices). The age-old voice of Religion: WORK for it, slave! Bit to the mouth, yoke to the shoulder, you must OBEY the guiding whip of Master Obedience to gain your righteousness!

Clearly understand. After Romans 6:14, Paul is no longer endorsing Cross-Bought Righteousness. To the contrary, Cross-Bought Righteousness has become Paul’s philosophical, religious, social, spiritual and mental impasse. This is not an “opinion.” This is the God’s-honest Truth. At 6:14 (and thereafter), whenever Paul is forced to concede that our claim to righteousness comes exclusively from simply accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, it only brings Paul back to his same old dilemma:

“What then? May we sin, for we are not under the Law, but under Grace?”

Sure as the sun shines, Paul of Tarsus is the rocky soil in Jesus’ parable. The true Word sprouting up so quickly... then, instantly, withering. Destroyed in the sun. A spiritual battle rages within Rocky, continuing throughout the rest of Romans, the rest of his letters and the rest of his days. His Pharisee roots screaming up at him:

The Law! Under PERFECT-Grace, what will become of the Law?

If it is “a foot race” (as Track-Star-Paul later sums it up in retrospect), our dear Rocky is running in the wrong direction.

What is truly GOOD, Rocky sees as truly EVIL: If a man gains his righteousness exclusively by what’s been done for him on the cross, then what he does or doesn’t do in regard to the Law becomes inconsequential. Our whole idea of Good & Evil becomes... inconsequential.

ALL things considered; for Paul, it was far less radical, more in tune with the manmade law-abiding concepts of Good & Evil (and... simply... much easier) to follow the opposite voice — opposite to the Holy Spirit. That “extra-extra” voice,” that states:

What’s been done for us on the cross is NOT enough. In addition to promoting a much lesser concept of “grace” (much, much lesser than PERFECT-Grace) we must temper this entire “grace” thing with something extra.

 

[The Third One]

For ALL these years (whatever we decide to call it) Paul’s “Reversal” or “The Plane Crash” has remained in print. Right before our very eyes. Romans 6:16. Like turning off a light switch, the Words of the Holy Spirit give way to something entirely different. Polluted language and shadowy nonsense.

The Box takes issue, “Come on! Polluted language?”

Absolutely. Worse than the swill in the Hudson river. We go from “FREE-Indeed” (truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross) to “SLAVERY- FREE.” FREE only to choose upon which Cotton Plantation we wish to work ourselves to DEATH.

The Box adds another question, “Why do you also claim that Romans 6:16 is ‘shadowy nonsense’.”

What else should we call it? How does one go about “obeying…Obedience”? One does not. One can only be obedient to something. Not to Obedience, itself. Thus, Rocky starts jumping us from one Master to another. Our bags are held out to you, good neighbor, Rocky. Trick or treat! He gives us both. First, the “trick.” Rocky knows “obeying obedience” is shadowy nonsense; and, so, he throws the “treat” (Romans 6:18) into our plastic pumpkin. Turns out, it is NOT to Master Obedience we are to become obedient slaves which LEADS to self-earned righteousness. Rather, upon leaving Master Sin we are sold OUTRIGHT into the cotton fields of Master Self-Earned Righteousness:

Romans 6:18 (KJV) “And having been set FREE from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.”

Well, at least Master Self-Earned-Righteousness has some substance (compared to obeying Master Obedience). Now that we have emerged from the shackles of shadows, we can fit solid chains around our wrists (bound in front of us, just like Peter’s, about which Jesus warned him) so that we can obey our more-tangible Master. Okay, Rock, how do we go about becoming obedient slaves to Master Self-Earned-Righteousness?

Simple. We must always DO that which is considered *right*. AND... always NOT DO that which is considered *wrong.*

Well, boys, girls (and any others), there is a simple three letter word that sums up every bit of that. It is called, the LAW. What Rocky is actually saying (well hidden in Chapter Six within his creative writing) is that we can be obedient slaves to SIN or we can be obedient slaves to the LAW. Why doesn’t Rocky just pen, “the law”? Why the creative writing? Why are we flippin’ Masters in the middle o’ pickin’ cotton? One Master to another? We can be obedient slaves to Master Obedience. Sounds fun. Leading to Master Self-Earned-Righteousness. Yippee — giving us the right to work on Master Self-Earned-Righteousness’ Cotton Plantation. Leading us “unto” even more cotton to pick. Oh, no — ya gotta be kiddin’ — MORE cotton? Yep, for Master Self-Earned-Holiness:

Romans 6:19 (KJV) “…as servants of righteousness unto holiness.”

Why ALL the smoke and mirror Masters? Verse 16, Master Obedience, to verse 17, Master Self-Earned-Righteousness “unto” verse 19, Master Self-Earned-Holiness?

Because, Rocky is painfully aware, he cannot come clean and plainly reveal “Master Law” as the REAL Master (for whom we be pickin’ ALL dis cotton).

Why not?

Because, the Holy Spirit has just told us (only a mere five verses ago) that we are NO LONGER slaves under the Law, but FREE under God’s GOOD Grace:

Romans 6:14 (KJV) “Sin shall not have dominion over you, for ye are not under the Law, but under Grace.”

If Rocky were to suggest (here) that we need to become “slaves to the Law,” every Truth he has painstakingly established in the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans goes completely down the toilet in flames. The true inherency of the Gospel. That we are entirely incapable of making ourselves righteous in God’s eyes by doing what the Law commands. And, so — ever so cleverly — Rocky backdoors his way into it by starting us off with shadowy-nonsense. We can obey Obedience. Which is directly opposed to Rocky affirming the Truth — the Truth he himself reduced to paper in the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans. We gain “The Righteousness of God” by simply and truly accepting, 100%, with no ifs, ands or buts, what’s been done for us on the cross.

Keep in mind, ALL of this inherency Rocky mentioned in the first five and-a-half chapters of Romans is the absolute God’s-honest Truth. Absolutely Holy Spirit inspired. Jesus agrees with it, 100%. The prophets agree with it, 100%. No one (practically speaking) can be made righteous by obeying the law. Rocky, himself, agrees with it (three chapters ago) 100%:

Romans 3:20 “No one can ever be made righteous in God’s sight by doing what the Law commands.”

And, yet— now — (according to Rocky) we are to become Slaves to the Law? Oh, excuse me, “Obedient slaves to Master Obedience, which leads us o’er yonder to the Righteousness Plantation. Where the worthy have “earned the FREEDOM” to become the hard-working slaves of Master Self-Earned-Righteousness.

What happened to Grace? Of his two choices, why doesn’t Rocky simply list What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross as our GOOD and obvious choice at Romans 6:16?

Because, What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross does not answer Rocky’s question. It only leads him right back into his head-banging dilemma. Make no mistake. At Romans 6:16, Rocky is doing everything he can to fix “the cross.” He is attaching his first “AND” to “the cross.” In ADDITION to “believing in the cross” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) we must also become obedient slaves to Master Self-Earned Righteousness. For, if our righteousness is earned ONLY by the power of truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, then Rocky is back to his same poorly-posed, poorly-worded, faithless and fearful question (Romans 6:15):

“What then? May we sin, for we are not under the Law, but under Grace?”

This is exactly where the cheese-block gets glued solid around the Mature-Christian’s head. Even though Rocky is not offering What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross as either of the two roads for us to take, Fundamental Christian apologetics accept Rocky’s answer as proper. Why? For the same reason Rocky wrote this cross-diminishing trash in the first place. So that “the cross” would not become an excuse for us to “continue in sin.” Rocky feeds it to the sheep. The sheep swallow it whole.

Robert, a Baptist Senior Pastor, celebrated author and Christian radio and TV personality claims (in writing) that, “Grace is not an excuse for disobedience to God.”

I have no idea what kind of “grace” Robert is talking about. However, under PERFECT-Grace, there IS NO disobedience to God. Zero. Under PERFECT-Grace, IT (disobedience to God) is non-existent. IT has ALL been taken AWAY.

 

[The Third One]

Listen closely, Robert. Anything that you could possibly look upon, throughout the entirety of a true acceptor’s Life, and judge as “disobedience to God” has been taken AWAY. That is the power of truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross, 100%, with no ifs, ands or buts. That is the absolute God’s-honest Truth in the sight of the Living God and in the sight of the true acceptor.

Why do I presume that Robert, a senior pastor with a DD, desperately needs to learn this basic Jesus-Truth? Because this is the same Robert who wrote, “Grace Gone Wild.”

Robert, your book title is a blind denunciation of PERFECT-Grace. Open your eyes. You should honestly entitle your book, “What’s Been Done For Us On the Cross Gone Wild.”

You can take-it-to-the-bank, gone wild. Eternally empowered and completely off-the-hook, gone wild. Back in the day, if comedian Steve Martin could have done an accurate impression of PERFECT-Grace in his Czechoslovakian accent (doing his little dance with his forefingers pointing outward) it would chime something like this:

I AM a wild and crazy Grace!

We NEED something “wild and crazy” to disintegrate the horrible aberration that comes to Life from the bowels of NOTHING. Namely, SIN — brought to Life and nursed to strength by our disabling mental disease — The Knowledge of Good and Evil. Yes sir. It takes something “wild and crazy” to send ALL this garbage AWAY. Radical? Absolutely. The Jesus Concept IS radical.

Although ignorant to PERFECT-Grace, our brother, Robert (like our brother, Rocky) is a logical thinker. And, know this. It is impossible for any logical thinker to express the “taming” or the “fixing” of PERFECT-Grace without resorting to shadowy-nonsense. Rocky and Robert are both fighting the same self-defeating battle against their own personal FREEDOM — against being “FREE-Indeed.” Therefore, the Mature-Christian must invent his own definition of FREEDOM. In Christianeese, FREEDOM no longer means, “FREE-Indeed.” Check out Doctor Rocky’s definition of FREEDOM:

You are FREE to choose what kind of a slave you want to become. The Frankenstein-Invention (designed to fix PERFECT-Grace): “FREE” to obey Master Obedience.

Doctor Robert is the obvious student of Doctor Rocky. Tell us, Doctor Robert, how do you define the wonderfully simple Word “FREEDOM” under your idea of “grace”?

“Grace is not a license to do what you want, it is the FREEDOM to do what you should.”

More shadowy-nonsense to tame that wild and PERFECT-Grace: “FREE to do only what (Robert) says (we) SHOULD do.” Let’s be fair to Robert. He means that “grace” makes us FREE to do whatever Robert says we should do, based upon Robert’s interpretation of the Bible. A “Biblical interpretation” fed to Robert by the Church-Taught. Like fried chicken coated in Captain Crunch breading. At Divinity-School, Robert ate it up (ALL of Rocky’s letters and epistles). And, Robert licked his fingers clean. Then, he rounded up his own big flock of sheep to ruin (by insuring that “the struggle-lie” will never die). He proliferated the struggle-lie in Rocky’s letters and epistles, using the same old religious Disaster-Recipe. “Folks, you are to STRUGGLE WITH SIN.” A totally useless prescription for killing sin. Brothers and sisters-a! How can YOU win YOUR struggle against sin?

By doing what you SHOULD.

Such logic obviously self-implodes upon itself. For you to claim “belief” in the power of what’s been done for us on the cross (namely, that ALL of your sins have been taken AWAY) only to struggle with the prospect of continuing in sin, indicates a total lack of true acceptance that ALL of your sin, past-present-and-future, has truly been taken AWAY. Robert SEES sin. The tell-tale sign that he is blind to What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-The-Cross. In ALL truthfulness, Rocky’s Two-Option Offer (which Dr. Robert wholeheartedly endorses) is nothing more than a continuation of slavery to our oldest and most destructive Master. Master Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Option one: We can be *Evil* slaves to Master Sin.

Option two: We can be *Good* slaves to Master Law.

The better of Paul’s two options takes us back to square one — having to “earn our way to Heaven” by following the letter of the Law complete with Paul’s laundry lists of dos and don’ts. That type of thinking did not work before Jesus made the scene, so how is it supposed to work after?

The “*Good* Christian” must religiously DO whatever Rocky considers to be *right,* and NOT DO whatever Rocky considers to be *wrong.*

Says who? Says Rocky “by God.” The “by-God” part is the bait that slams the hook deep into the Church-Taught Christian’s jaw. It gives Robert “the ‘FREEDOM’ to do what he SHOULD.” Robert’s axiom of Faith: “I have the ‘FREEDOM’ to do exactly what Rocky tells me I SHOULD do.” The SHOULDS of Rocky’s manifesto (as Rocky’s letters continue and continue) — Rocky’s endless Christian-Pharisee-Extremist Laundry List of SHOULDS.

Rocky’s attachment of the “by-God” jazz into his manifesto has brought untold injury to the Kingdom of Heaven. At Romans 6:16, Rocky scores a cross-destroying touchdown. (Team Darkness cheers, Go Team!) Then, for extra points, Rocky adds insult to injury (Romans 6:22) by adding God’s signature onto this total reversal of PERFECT-Grace. Flipping Masters (yet again), now Rocky implicates GOD as the slave owner:

Romans 6:22 (HIV) “But now that you have been set FREE from sin and have become SLAVES OF GOD, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.”

When will Rocky ever make up his mind? Pick ONE slave-owner substitute for “Master Law” and stick-with-it already. First, Rocky throws “the cross” out the cabin door (without a parachute) in favor of us becoming obedient slaves to Master Obedience. Strike that — Master Self-Earned-Righteousness unto Master Self-Earned-Holiness. No. Strike ALL that, too. Now, Rocky casts... GOD... in the roll of the Plantation Owner. The “ALL-Seeing Overseer,” cracking the proverbial whip. With earthly-overseers at the pulpit, keepin’ dat cotton comin’ in. “I can’t hear ya, Congregation! Yer supposed to give me an ‘Amen’ on that! (AMEN!”) That’s better! Now, get your sin-stained tails back out in that hot field and pick your Master GOD some more cotton! Ya hear!”

Welcome to the ongoing perversion of simply accepting what’s been done for us on the cross. The Two-Option Cotton-Pick for us at this point is:

1.) Master Sin or

2.) Master Obedience/Self-Righteousness/Unto-Holiness/“GOD” (aka: Master Law).

 

[The Third One]

Wow. That “GOD” part sure makes the despicableness of slavery sound much more amicable and divine, now doesn’t it? Still, Rocky is missing something here. What could that be?

Oh, yeah...

Jesus.

Rocky almost completely forgot about Jesus. Well, Rocky will just have to fix that by sticking “Jesus” back in there... somewhere. No problem. Rocky staples verse 6:23 on to the end of this cross-defeating plane crash:

Romans 6:23 (NIV) “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Huh? Say what?

What does totally-trashing what’s been done for us on the cross (by prodding us back into slavery to self-righteousness) have to do with this song?

For the wages of sin is death
But the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord?

The wages-of-sin part works okay for the first Master, Sin. However, even if we foolishly attach the word “GOD” to the end of this total reversal of What’s-Been-Done-For-Us-On-the-Cross, what does becoming slaves to Obedience/Self-Righteousness/“GOD” — have to do with “the gift of God is eternal Life in Christ Jesus our Lord”?

Absolutely NOTHING.

Jesus would chastise Rocky (spank his fanny as the Pharisee he is) for teaching us to be SLAVES to anything — especially slaves to any religious burden. Jesus is ALL about setting us FREE from ALL such burden. (Certainly FREE from the grip of any hard-ass Pharisee.) Still... that 23rd Verse does have some nice-sounding lyrics. “The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Such pretty language, this Romans 6:23 jazz. The only problem is, it can be tacked on to anything. We can tack “The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” on to ANY imaginable Master. However, it certainly does not make the Real “gift” we gain from “Jesus” PART of it. Example:

You can choose to be a slave to Sin or you can choose to be a slave to Cool Ranch Doritos; for, the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am not poking fun. I am seriously trying to wake you up if; God-forbid, Paul’s Christian Breakfast Special has permanently hammered you to sleep. What, exactly, is Rocky feeding the sheep? The HEAD MCNOTHIN. Everything from the neck up indoctrinated and encased in cheese. I am trying to make it face-slapping clear how very self-defeating and contradictory it is for you to throw AWAY your cross-bought FREEDOM, so that you can choose what kind of a SLAVE you want to become. As we keep adding more and more Masters to choose from, it should become face-slapping obvious, our one and only GOOD choice is cross-bought FREEDOM:

1.) We can choose to be slaves of sin.

2.) We can choose to be slaves of obedience/righteousness/“God” (the Law).

3.) We can choose to be slaves to what Robert thinks we SHOULD do.

4.) We can choose to be slaves to Cool Ranch Doritos.

5.) We can truly accept the FREE gift of what’s been done for us on the cross, with no other thing required of us in return.


Got to hand it to Paul. He did a great job of spreading the word. BUT... ouch... what a word.

SLAVERY

What difference does it make how far the seed is thrown or upon what kind of ground the seed is falling? The wrong seeds are being sown. Two thousand years have gone by and 99.9999999% of the Earth’s adult population (both Christian and non-Christian) are still running amuck, sinning. What has Rocky truthfully accomplished for humanity by his diversion AWAY from us simply and truly accepting what’s been done for us on the cross? SLAVERY. Two choices. We can be Slaves of Sin or we can be Slaves of Sin.

Do you clearly understand the devastating significance of ALL this? The only outcome of Rocky’s two choices for us is Slavery to Sin. Never forget, Master Obedience, Master Righteousness and even Master Holiness always sell their Slaves right back into the clutches of Master Sin. Humanity’s status quo before Jesus came to RANSOM us. Same status quo after Jesus came to RANSOM us (ever since Rocky’s appalling reversal).

What happened to Rocky is not funny. Quite the contrary. It is terribly sad. Before Rocky could get the concept of PERFECT-Grace even twenty feet out of the starting gate, the "police" pulled him over and beat him into submission. 616 denotes the mile marker. We should place flowers and a cross at that exact spot in every copy of Rocky’s letter to the Romans, as mourners do for an enshrined loved one lost to a fatality along the roadway. Saying, as we pass, “That’s where they got him.”

The Tradition of the Elders is “the police force” that successfully arrested Rocky and beat him senseless. The “trouble and persecution” that “fell” Rocky was Rabbinic Judaism and the Mishnah. Rocky, our take-it-to-the-face Christian hero, was simply beaten to a pulp by the indoctrinated dogma of Mosaic Law. Decades of tradition, pounding blow after blow inside his head…

…and the Word wilting with every stroke.

How’s that for a breakdown of Roman’s, Chapter Six, Madame Dans La Boîte En Carton?

Stand warned: You want to be Rocky’s Mature-Christian apologist? As Rocky Balboa himself would say, “Go for it.”

If any of this got through the Box and past the cheese, I expect you to reread it and reread it, until you can produce a clear and lucid answer… for ALL OF IT.

If not… don’t waste your breath or my valuable Time... on me... with one-liners of Church-Taught stupidity and boldfaced lies: “You just hate Paul! You’re bad!” From here on out, should I continue, such indomitable trash-talk will be entirely disregarded.

On the other hand, VictoryinJesus, if you would like to continue this conversation, one to one, I for one, am in.

I think it will be a much better show for everyone to watch. With the exception of the guy up on top of the skyscraper, whom... ALL of a sudden... doesn’t seem to be liking this anymore.

The Third One

 

[The Third One]

Correction: Scripture verse typo top of Post# 298: (#2 is found at Romans 6:15) NOT Romans 6:14. Sorry for the error, folks.

 

[Waiting on him]

Because human beings are made by the Living God in His Own Image. Including our flesh and everything He placed within our flesh. As Jesus says:

So why does Jesus say one must be born again?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I shake OFF the dust of" this one" !

Done & dusted, refuses being helped but is placed into the hands of a just and living God.

@VictoryinJesus I pray that the Spirit of God will protect your mind from receiving more to confuse it by this spout- hole from below the depths.

Remember whom you serve and his great power and cling to the love he showed you through his Son's death.

It would be beyond tragic to reject what God says and turn to man whom says what may appeal to your mental status!
It is God all the way unto the end regardless of your choice, for in eternal life or eternal destruction ( death )..... He judges the final motive!

Out-right arrogance to challenge and disrespect Paul and his writings, degrading to call him " Rocky", blaming that on the Spirit of God. Throwing out a handful of crosses & Jesuses doesn't hide the tom- foolery of this discourse.

Do Not Feed .....the dragon!

@ your own risk @VictoryinJesus

 

[ScottA]

I guess my head is just scrambled by all the endless debates. Which debates have included… (1)did Paul still continue to wrestle with sin? (2)What of the thorn given unto him in the flesh? How did he get this thorn? Not to debate but I’ve always wondered if that thorn was pride. The endless debates over; (3)as long as we are alive and breathing in these bodies, no one is made perfect. Then (4)there is always an opposing side to every topic. I think of when Jesus told the religious leaders, “you will die in your sins.” All the endless debates over every topic imaginable; A lot of those topics surrounding Pauls’ walk. Point is…I don’t want to disregard what to me is (5)obviously meant to help by at least bringing attention to the cross and what was done for us on it. You mentioned pitting brother against brother? That happens all the time on this board. It even happens in the church where the message of what has been done for us on the cross becomes “us” against “them”… always “a people” against “a people” …see that which I shared concerning my mother and brother…both haven’t did the steps said to be required for receiving “a gift.” I once asked on here: why would my Father would want me to stand long-faced and miserable at funerals, crying with no hope for my loved ones …because by judging (you hear it all the time; I don’t think they ever chose to accept Salvation), every one assumes (including the message of judging that weasels to inside my head); of their burning in hell for all eternity. “Us” against “them”. I don’t hear the message of “us” against “them” but instead how you can love others as you love yourself.

You said “pitting brother against brother”
All of religion does this…
If someone can help me to stop being so judgmental and accusing of others…to me that isn’t pitting brother against brother but the opposite. One thing I do have with my mother, that I don’t have with others is this…I’ve fully stopped trying to fix her. We laugh together. I can take being with and around her because I’ve accepted at 91 she is who she is. Not trying “continually” the beat her into giving me something else, not trying to school her. Not trying to mold her into something else. And the third one did speak true in; I can’t throw the first stone at my mother. This I get. Because I could tell you all stories about what I’ve done.

You have covered a lot of things here. I numbered and underlined each (above) and thought I would address them one at a time, numbered below:

1. Yes, Paul wrestled with sin. As the apostle appointed by Jesus to the gentiles but also being a Jew, he was literally on the cusp between Israel who died in their sins and became "the dead in Christ" (risen with Him dead, making them alive again), and those born again of the spirit of God who are "the living in Christ" that remain in sinful flesh and in the world until natural death. As such, Paul spoke to both groups, therefore saying that the word of truth must be "rightly divided" or you would mix up what only applied to each group separately. This meant that Paul and all who are born again and remain in sinful flesh would struggle with it until natural death, which is us sharing in the suffering of Christ who carried the marks of sin from His crucifixion and resurrection to the end of His life in the flesh also until His ascension (yet He did not sin). We, on the other hand, remain fully reliant upon His righteousness during that remaining time, and not our own strength.
2. The thorn in Paul's flesh may have been any number of things, but spiritually was a shadow of all who are alive in the spirit and remain in sinful flesh and in the world until natural death. Which is to say that all of us being left in sinful flesh are left to struggle with sin even after we have been saved from it. This is the result of Christ giving us His body, saying, "take, eat, this is my body." This is our Communion with Christ, that is our reign with Him until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.
3. The ever opposing two sides to everything is the result of Christ "not leaving us peace but a sword"--which cuts both ways. That is, unlike Israel which simply died in their sin, we--if we are born again of the spirit of God live in His life, but also die in our sins...which is the cost of being grafted into Him who did the same.
4. As for The Third One (so called) meaning to do well and bring us to understand all that was done for us at the cross...since the founding of the church there have been those who intending to do well, did so according to the flesh, and other who have done so according to the Spirit. Jesus set before the church, "flesh and blood" and also what came via the Spirit from the "Father"--which is to say, He set before them "life and death", just as God had set before Adam and Eve, and just as Moses had set before Israel. Building a church upon following Peter (a man of "flesh and blood") as many have followed, was the choice of death, rather than life. The Third One (so called) is preaching along that same line of "flesh and blood", but with regret, not fully understanding where it all went wrong. Which is why he has come to blame Paul for this great departure from immediately beginning to live as receiving all that has been done for us at the cross. It is good that he has regret and is living as one ought to live believing what ought to have been believed since Pentecost, but it is not good to speak against Paul...because it is against (anti) Christ who appointed him. He is like a man whose hand is withered. Which is no loss of salvation, but brings weeping and gnashing of teeth for the loss of a more glorious reign with Christ during these times. Which was foretold by Christ in the parable of the evil servant.
5. Your Father has you standing where you ought to stand. Indeed, it is a sad thing to see the unsaved die, for which Christ also wept. Even so, all tears are to be wiped away. Pray--because the different times of your life and that of your love ones are not different with God, but the same. Pray as if they are--pray as if they are alive.

 

[ScottA]

On to the matter of addressing L3astAmOngManyB13ss3d’s challenge. Stand warned, @ScottA. This is not going to be short. Yet… if you were able to make your way through Paul’s lengthy “ramblings” in his letters to the Corinthians (Part One and Part Two), this should be a breeze for you.

If I may post an important Truth, in advance:

There is no natural “evil-nature” within us.

On the contrary, it is remarkable how naturally GOOD and totally sinless we truly are with no conscience, guilt and fear based upon what we think is “Good” and what we think is “Evil.” Finally, you've heard the Truth. These are amazing Truths for us to know and understand. Only the Holy Spirit of the Living God of Light speaking through a Living true acceptor can make these Truths known to the world. We could have easily learned ALL these basic Truths two-thousand years ago — as early as the later part of the first century. Under PERFECT-Grace, the Holy Spirit leads us (naturally) into ALL Living Truth. Sadly, the very Lives of these basic Truths were cut short. Instant fatalities. They went down with the plane at Romans 6:16.

Although these Truths are part of the Good News, it is difficult for any Mature-Christian to de-cheese and embrace them. The true light these Truths shed upon the falsehood of “Original Sin” is too Real. Too bright. The true light these Truths shed upon our greatest Christian hero and brother, Paul, is too Real. Too bright. Cries Paul of Tarsus:

Romans 7:18 (Original Greek) “I know that there dwells nothing good in my flesh.”

Truly, a wonderfully great soul, despite his self-deprecating, self-disclaimer (stated directly above). The God’s-honest Truth? In Paul’s flesh lay the exact same makings that formed the creation of Adam’s flesh — the GOOD work of the Living God of Light.

Therefore, the falsehood — “There dwells nothing good in my flesh!” — comes to us not out of the God-Given soul of Paul. It comes to us from a very specific voice of Darkness, speaking out of Paul. A voice that kicks into high gear at Chapter 7 (immediately following Romans, Chapter 6, no less). The Holy Spirit has a name for this very specific voice of NOTHING — a voice which proceeds out of the Darkness, Itself:

“Miserable-Comforter.”

What else could be expected immediately following the Plane Crash? The very devilment that led John Calvin into his “total depravity” assessment of humanity:

We are ALL debase and perverted to the core.

Mind you, this is a collective judgment against ALL human beings.

It is good that you do not like the way things have gone, but you have missed the mark on where the blame falls. It is not with Paul, but with the "false teachers" foretold by both Peter and Paul. I have explained this--that Jesus set before the early church the same "life and death" choice God also set before Adam and Eve, and that Moses set before Israel. After which the early church "false teachers" began to follow "flesh and blood" by making Peter their predecessor rather than following the example of how Peter had heard from the Father that Jesus was the Christ; which was by the Spirit, arranged by Jesus to be sent at Pentecost to the church following His ascension, according to Joel the prophet. This is what Jesus meant by "another will gird thee up", making him the leader of things he himself would lead.

I also explained that Paul was not given or sent in "PERFECTION" as you say, but rather as Jesus said, "in weakness." Because Jesus did not leave us "peace (as you now assert) but a sword" purposely--that He might reign until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled for these many generation, forsaking none, but delivery all, some to life and some to death according to the choice of each one as He had set it before us--as Paul too declared, "but each one in his own order." Therefore Paul referring to his own part, said, "I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it" and referred also to it as a "race", as this reign of Christ leading some to life and some to death, was foretold to continue for a "thousand years"--which is to say, until the times are fulfilled...and another thousand for him who would also come, that he should be revealed.

You also assert that children are born innocent, which is not true, for each is born "according to their kind." Which must surely mean that you have no children of your own--or you would not say such a thing. But you sight Jesus' word, saying, "unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Which He did not say regarding the flesh, but the spirit...and being "born again." Which is confirmed also regarding the time of His coming and warning not be so divided, saying "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!"

 

[The Third One]

Dear @VictoryinJesus, take your Time, hun.

I am PERFECTLY okay in here, waiting for you… like Daniel in the lion’s den. Don’t worry. I am never alone. Like David, I am well equipped with a Rod of Iron and a Staff of Truth. Don’t worry. Take as much Time as you need. As you can see, their “ROARS” are much bigger than their teeth and talons. To say very little about them. For, their roars are nothing more than pathetic… meows.

To get out of this holding cell, I can fight the GOOD Fight in any direction of your choosing (or be taken up and out of here). There are 360 degrees to choose from — should the answer to your prayer be: Yes, this has been GOOD and it is GOOD for us to continue onward. Would you like to know my prayer? I already have the Rod and the Staff. I am praying for your Lantern to simply show us the direction to go.

In the meantime, we continue to digress in here. Faith-In-the-Box one-liners. And, intellectual stupidity.

@ScottA writes:

“You also assert that children are born innocent, which is not true, for each is born ‘according to their kind.’ Which must surely mean that you have no children of your own--or you would not say such a thing.”

Scott, you never cease to amaze me in the talent you seem to have developed. Working so hard at becoming so ignorant. “Very, GOOD, Scott.” (Are you old enough to remember that commercial?)

No, Scott… it wasn’t Peter and Paul.

It was Jesus who predicted the “false teachers” as you call them.

Yes, Scott, each thing is born according to its kind.

OUR “kind” happens to be “Humanity.” And, we can trace our “kind” ALL the way back to Adam and Eve.

Where do you get these half-baked ideas? You claim: Since ALL things are born “according to their kind,” somehow, that proves little children ARE NOT born innocent, and PERFECTLY sinless??? You keep saying this same thing, again and again; over and over. Prove it, already. Can you NOT answer a direct question?

I’ve asked you straight up, if you “believe” in “Original Sin” and/or “the Fall of Man.”

You do not answer.

Are you ashamed to admit that you “believe” in such nonsense? Or do you have your own theory?

You are a broken record. You have no understanding of the Creation of flesh and blood. You think that dying and becoming “Spiritual” is an advancement FROM what is tangible. If that were the case, then why, from an eternity of "Spiritual," did God create the tangible?

Prove to me (already) that babies and one-year-olds (LITTLE children) ARE NOT innocent and PERFECTLY sinless.

God says that LITTLE children ARE separate and innocent from ALL other humans, because they do not have the mental disease which you have acquired (and seem Hell-bent demented and determined never to relinquish).

Jesus says that LITTLE children ARE separate from ALL other humans. He holds one in his arms and tells US become like one of THEM in order for US to gain the Kingdom of Heaven.

You ROAR as if you know everything.

You know nothing:

In regard to my stating the Truth, that children are born innocent, you purport, “You have no children of your own--or you would not say such a thing.”

I was 47 the day I became blessed by the Lord with my one and only offspring — a son.

To have children at the blossoming age of 19 or 20, I suppose it could very easily change one’s entire Life; however, with me (at 47), my son was a wonderful addition to my Life. He is now 14, and becoming quite an amazing young man. At the risk of being chastised in here — about the folly of silly human pride, by some Church-Taught Christian — I am very proud of him.

Yes and, early on, we covered the very thing that we are now talking about in this room.

When he was no more than three and a half, I told him the Truth about himself and added some fatherly advise to go along with it. We had just finished a gleeful time on the swing (as usual, me pushing and little him holding on for dear Life, while laughing his little tail off). I got him up in front of me, and he knew I had something very serious to tell him. I said, “Nick, you are PERFECT. You are a PERFECT person.” You probably won’t “believe” what the little guy said back to me. He said, “Thank you.” It was the way he said it that was so out of the ordinary — especially for a three-year-old. Such a serious tone and his hard emphasis on, “Thank” (as he said it in his little voice).

To him, I responded, “Don’t you ever let anyone take that AWAY from you, not even me.” And, guess what? He said it again, “Thank you.”

He knew exactly what I was talking about.

And, Scott, just in you don’t know (as seems to be the case with everything else), I was talking about his absolute core soul — WHO HE actually IS — his very essence.

He knew I meant it, and he knew I was telling him the absolute Truth.

I didn’t plan saying ALL that to him. It just naturally came out that day. In retrospect, it turned out to be an important thing for a son to get from his father. Pretty cool. He was given permission by his father (his dad) to always continue to be exactly WHO he IS — exactly HOW his Father (in Heaven) created him. Not what the world (any outside influences; such as, family, school, work, books, the Internet, the Government, Hollywood, Wokeness, the Church, etcetera) might ever want him to be. Specifically, what any other person (dad, mom, sis, buds, girlfriends, wives, bosses, Biblical authors, preachers, etcetera) might ever want him to be. And, yes, Scott, that list includes me, myself and I. Actually, me at the very top of that list… his dad. For, in my humble, yet considered opinion, a dad should always try to be as great an influence as is humanly possible in his son’s Life.

 

[The Third One]

Do you understand, Scott? I didn’t even want me “being a great dad” to get in his way, as he would continue onward in Life... in our father/son relationship.

The God’s-honest Truth is the exact opposite of “Original Sin.” We are not born with a sin-problem that leads to evil. We contract a very specific evil mental problem that leads to sin.

A little child does not have this very specific evil mental problem... yet. One is born into this world on God’s Factory Setting, PERFECTLY sinless.

Truly (or as Jesus would say, “Verily, verily”) if we were born in sin, then, what Jesus proposes as the solution to this very specific, evil mental problem — for a grown adult to be “born again” — would be redundant and totally useless. Completely ineffective.

@Waiting on him, brings up a very GOOD question — while we're waiting on you... in your absence (miss you, Victory).

“So why does Jesus say one must be born again?”

Carefully notice, Jesus does not say, “born in a brand-new special way” or “born correctly this time” or “born right” as opposed to being born “wrong.”

Jesus chooses his Words very carefully. And, he always keeps it simple.

“Born again.”

Follow the Jesus-Logic.

If people are born "Evil," what use would it be for us to be born again?

Jesus’ point?

We are not born Evil. We are born Very Good. We are born PERFECTLY sinless.

We have been hacked.

Say your computer gets hacked by an Evil virus. Does that mean your computer is Evil?

No, it simply means your computer missed the warning.

The error is human: We are stupid.

The answer is Divine: Terminate the virus and restart your Factory Setting.

The very real Power of Darkness is seen in the fact that the simple cure is sitting on the table, right in front of us. And, there, the cure has sat for the last two thousand years.

Obviously, what truly helps the O Silent Ones (as David refers to them) is anything that keeps us blind to the disease and stupid to the cure.

Diagnosis: We have a very specific, evil mental problem that leads to sin.

Good News: There is a cure. ALL you have to do is truly take it.

Jesus said: “Take my body, and eat it.”

Truly swallow this pill. It gives your brain a psychological RESTART coupled up with eternal ANTI-MALWARE and VIRUS PROTECTION.

It is beyond amazing (into the excessive depths of Diabolical) that the Church would invent “Original Sin” — a fairytale that keeps everyone blind to our very Real and evil mental problem. Verily, verily, we are blinded to the disease with fairytales, despite the fact that the disease, itself, is clearly named in the Scriptures.

This openly named virus is a very specific knowledge that inadvertently becomes engrained into our minds. It is ALL consuming. So much so, as adults, it is difficult for us to imagine it not being completely engrained in our minds.

This knowledge was NOT in the minds of Adam and Eve before they became Diabolically-Induced into... doing... what? What did Adam and Eve do?

They changed their minds.

This Scripturally-Named knowledge is also NOT in the minds of ALL little ones — newborns to one-year-olds.

Think about those two clues. Adam and Eve, before metanoeo (before their change-of-mind) and ALL little ones. Two unique and isolated test groups. Can you guess what very specific knowledge is, lacking in the minds of both?

VictoryinJesus knows the answer.

The Knowledge of Good & Evil.

Cause and effect. Our metanoeo — our change in thinking from the way we originally thought to the viral way we think now — is the direct result of us gaining The Knowledge of Good & Evil. The Knowledge of Good & Evil is the Mother of ALL Sin.

But, no, let us not block pure Light with shadows, diversions and pet names. “Original Sin,” “The Fall of Man” nor “The Mother of ALL Sin.” Let us truthfully call this mental disease exactly what the Holy Spirit calls it in the Word of God.

“The Knowledge of Good & Evil.”

 

[face2face]

The God’s-honest Truth is the exact opposite of “Original Sin.” We are not born with a sin-problem that leads to evil. We contract a very specific evil mental problem that leads to sin.

Job 5:7 a fav of mine around the camp fire....maybe you need to get out more?

 

[The Third One]

Humankind is born into trouble. Not born with trouble. Maybe you should stay in more -- turn the lights on and get your magnifying glass out. Apparently, it's tough to read accurately with only the firelight to guide you.

 

[Waiting on him]

Do you understand, Scott? I didn’t even want me “being a great dad” to get in his way, as he would continue onward in Life... in our father/son relationship.

The God’s-honest Truth is the exact opposite of “Original Sin.” We are not born with a sin-problem that leads to evil. We contract a very specific evil mental problem that leads to sin.

A little child does not have this very specific evil mental problem... yet. One is born into this world on God’s Factory Setting, PERFECTLY sinless.

Truly (or as Jesus would say, “Verily, verily”) if we were born in sin, then, what Jesus proposes as the solution to this very specific, evil mental problem — for a grown adult to be “born again” — would be redundant and totally useless. Completely ineffective.

@Waiting on him, brings up a very GOOD question — while we're waiting on you... in your absence (miss you, Victory).

“So why does Jesus say one must be born again?”

Carefully notice, Jesus does not say, “born in a brand-new special way” or “born correctly this time” or “born right” as opposed to being born “wrong.”

Jesus chooses his Words very carefully. And, he always keeps it simple.

“Born again.”

Follow the Jesus-Logic.

If people are born "Evil," what use would it be for us to be born again?

Jesus’ point?

We are not born Evil. We are born Very Good. We are born PERFECTLY sinless.

We have been hacked.

Say your computer gets hacked by an Evil virus. Does that mean your computer is Evil?

No, it simply means your computer missed the warning.

The error is human: We are stupid.

The answer is Divine: Terminate the virus and restart your Factory Setting.

The very real Power of Darkness is seen in the fact that the simple cure is sitting on the table, right in front of us. And, there, the cure has sat for the last two thousand years.

Obviously, what truly helps the O Silent Ones (as David refers to them) is anything that keeps us blind to the disease and stupid to the cure.

Diagnosis: We have a very specific, evil mental problem that leads to sin.

Good News: There is a cure. ALL you have to do is truly take it.

Jesus said: “Take my body, and eat it.”

Truly swallow this pill. It gives your brain a psychological RESTART coupled up with eternal ANTI-MALWARE and VIRUS PROTECTION.

It is beyond amazing (into the excessive depths of Diabolical) that the Church would invent “Original Sin” — a fairytale that keeps everyone blind to our very Real and evil mental problem. Verily, verily, we are blinded to the disease with fairytales, despite the fact that the disease, itself, is clearly named in the Scriptures.

This openly named virus is a very specific knowledge that inadvertently becomes engrained into our minds. It is ALL consuming. So much so, as adults, it is difficult for us to imagine it not being completely engrained in our minds.

This knowledge was NOT in the minds of Adam and Eve before they became Diabolically-Induced into... doing... what? What did Adam and Eve do?

They changed their minds.

This Scripturally-Named knowledge is also NOT in the minds of ALL little ones — newborns to one-year-olds.

Think about those two clues. Adam and Eve, before metanoeo (before their change-of-mind) and ALL little ones. Two unique and isolated test groups. Can you guess what very specific knowledge is, lacking in the minds of both?

VictoryinJesus knows the answer.

The Knowledge of Good & Evil.

Cause and effect. Our metanoeo — our change in thinking from the way we originally thought to the viral way we think now — is the direct result of us gaining The Knowledge of Good & Evil. The Knowledge of Good & Evil is the Mother of ALL Sin.

But, no, let us not block pure Light with shadows, diversions and pet names. “Original Sin,” “The Fall of Man” nor “The Mother of ALL Sin.” Let us truthfully call this mental disease exactly what the Holy Spirit calls it in the Word of God.

“The Knowledge of Good & Evil.”

Okay,

Just one more question and I’ll leave you to it, had the Pharisees had knowledge of good and evil would they have still crucified the Lord?

 

[face2face]

Humankind is born into trouble. Not born with trouble. Maybe you should stay in more -- turn the lights on and get your magnifying glass out. Apparently, it's tough to read accurately with only the firelight to guide you.

There is no good thing in human nature...nothing worth saving! Actually nothing an all powerful God could save! "With" and "into" with a touch of bold did it for you?
Maybe your heart is different to the rest of mankind's? Jeremiah 17:9-10 suggests otherwise. Paul was right in Romans 7:18-19.
No good thing...kinda like your response.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA writes:

“You also assert that children are born innocent, which is not true, for each is born ‘according to their kind.’ Which must surely mean that you have no children of your own--or you would not say such a thing.”

Scott, you never cease to amaze me in the talent you seem to have developed. Working so hard at becoming so ignorant. “Very, GOOD, Scott.” (Are you old enough to remember that commercial?)

No, Scott… it wasn’t Peter and Paul.

It was Jesus who predicted the “false teachers” as you call them.

Yes, Scott, each thing is born according to its kind.

OUR “kind” happens to be “Humanity.” And, we can trace our “kind” ALL the way back to Adam and Eve.

Where do you get these half-baked ideas? You claim: Since ALL things are born “according to their kind,” somehow, that proves little children ARE NOT born innocent, and PERFECTLY sinless??? You keep saying this same thing, again and again; over and over. Prove it, already. Can you NOT answer a direct question?

I’ve asked you straight up, if you “believe” in “Original Sin” and/or “the Fall of Man.”

You do not answer.

Are you ashamed to admit that you “believe” in such nonsense? Or do you have your own theory?

You are a broken record. You have no understanding of the Creation of flesh and blood. You think that dying and becoming “Spiritual” is an advancement FROM what is tangible. If that were the case, then why, from an eternity of "Spiritual," did God create the tangible?

Prove to me (already) that babies and one-year-olds (LITTLE children) ARE NOT innocent and PERFECTLY sinless.

God says that LITTLE children ARE separate and innocent from ALL other humans, because they do not have the mental disease which you have acquired (and seem Hell-bent demented and determined never to relinquish).

Jesus says that LITTLE children ARE separate from ALL other humans. He holds one in his arms and tells US become like one of THEM in order for US to gain the Kingdom of Heaven.

You ROAR as if you know everything.

You know nothing:

In regard to my stating the Truth, that children are born innocent, you purport, “You have no children of your own--or you would not say such a thing.”

I was 47 the day I became blessed by the Lord with my one and only offspring — a son.

To have children at the blossoming age of 19 or 20, I suppose it could very easily change one’s entire Life; however, with me (at 47), my son was a wonderful addition to my Life. He is now 14, and becoming quite an amazing young man. At the risk of being chastised in here — about the folly of silly human pride, by some Church-Taught Christian — I am very proud of him.

Yes and, early on, we covered the very thing that we are now talking about in this room.

When he was no more than three and a half, I told him the Truth about himself and added some fatherly advise to go along with it. We had just finished a gleeful time on the swing (as usual, me pushing and little him holding on for dear Life, while laughing his little tail off). I got him up in front of me, and he knew I had something very serious to tell him. I said, “Nick, you are PERFECT. You are a PERFECT person.” You probably won’t “believe” what the little guy said back to me. He said, “Thank you.” It was the way he said it that was so out of the ordinary — especially for a three-year-old. Such a serious tone and his hard emphasis on, “Thank” (as he said it in his little voice).

To him, I responded, “Don’t you ever let anyone take that AWAY from you, not even me.” And, guess what? He said it again, “Thank you.”

He knew exactly what I was talking about.

And, Scott, just in you don’t know (as seems to be the case with everything else), I was talking about his absolute core soul — WHO HE actually IS — his very essence.

He knew I meant it, and he knew I was telling him the absolute Truth.

I didn’t plan saying ALL that to him. It just naturally came out that day. In retrospect, it turned out to be an important thing for a son to get from his father. Pretty cool. He was given permission by his father (his dad) to always continue to be exactly WHO he IS — exactly HOW his Father (in Heaven) created him. Not what the world (any outside influences; such as, family, school, work, books, the Internet, the Government, Hollywood, Wokeness, the Church, etcetera) might ever want him to be. Specifically, what any other person (dad, mom, sis, buds, girlfriends, wives, bosses, Biblical authors, preachers, etcetera) might ever want him to be. And, yes, Scott, that list includes me, myself and I. Actually, me at the very top of that list… his dad. For, in my humble, yet considered opinion, a dad should always try to be as great an influence as is humanly possible in his son’s Life.

You speak the things of men.

I was quoting Peter, not Jesus. But that is another matter and you are mixing things up.

And it is you who does not have a clear understanding of creation and of God. God is spirit and perfect already, and the creation of speaking life into matter was not advancement to Him who could not advance more than He already is, but that "the man of sin should be revealed."

And, no, Adam and Eve may have been created in what can be considered righteousness, but even they were not actually righteous, for they chose unrighteousness. And, no, we are not born after their original kind, but rather after they were cursed and cast out of the presence of God--"eastward", which spiritually is evil. That is the evil and the kind of which we were born, for Adam and Eve had no children in the presence of God, but after the curse and after they were cast out--and how is it that you do not know this?

As for you asking me, you may have asked in general in this thread, or perhaps in your rambling, but that would not have been "straight up" but out in the weeds. But now I have answered you.

As for what I "believe"-- I believe I would like to own a hot tub, that I would like to go to Scotland someday, and to take a scenic extended train trip. But the things of God, I do not believe--these things I "know." None of what I have been saying or have said regarding God is belief, nor is it from me, but from God.

And the rest of your ramblings...I'll have to get back to you.