1Peter 3:18
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That's not what Jesus said. He presented a physical body for their examination as evidence that He was risen from among the dead.
In the exact same way, the angels presented an empty tomb as evidence that Jesus was risen from among the dead.
I assert they, the angels, and Jesus Himself, were being honest about everything.
Much love!
To rise from the dead is to give life to what is dead.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Being dead is the contrary to being alive. Don't you know that?
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Being dead is the contrary to being alive. Don't you know that?
Mmmh. I disagree. He was not always visible to them, so they did not conclude what you are saying. It is just an elaboration of your imagination, but not the real events.
I think they knew exactly what was happening, since they knew about what angels did in the past and no one thought angels have bodies of flesh. Angels even ate human food ... exactly like Jesus. The disciples knew that ... It looks that some people today don't get it.
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Luke 24:39 KJV
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Who's imagination? Here, feel this, it's real . . .
Much love!
Rise from the dead is to return to the living having gone to be where the dead ones are.
Matthew 17:9 KJV
9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Much love!
Of course, he got flesh and bones at that moment ... but not always; only when he was manifest, remember? Acts 10:40,41 :)
Judges 13 has a very interesting account about an angel in human body. I hope you don't believe angels have bodies of flesh.
Judges 13 has a very interesting account about an angel in human body. I hope you don't believe angels have bodies of flesh.
So? Don't you believe that to rise from the dead is to make live someone who is dead, like Jesus said in John 11:25?
Did you look at the interlinear I posted?So? Don't you believe that to rise from the dead is to make live someone who is dead, like Jesus said in John 11:25?
Jesus indeed will give life to those who have died believing. But what I'm talking about is when the Bible uses the words "rise from the dead", or, "risen from the dead", "firstfruits from the dead".
The common expression is, "rise from among the dead ones", not "returning from the state of death, being dead."
Much love!
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Of course I did. And there is anything there I should see in particular? It didn't change what Jesus said at all.
Read this:
(KJV) Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen (...)
What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I was dead"?
Here with another wording:
(KJV) Rev. 2:8 (...) These things saith (...) which was dead, and is alive
How he was dead and came back to life, according to you?
Read this:
(KJV) Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen (...)
What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I was dead"?
Here with another wording:
(KJV) Rev. 2:8 (...) These things saith (...) which was dead, and is alive
How he was dead and came back to life, according to you?
You are looking at different phrases. I'm wondering why you don't respond concerning the passages I've posted.Of course I did. And there is anything there I should see in particular? It didn't change what Jesus said at all.
Read this:
(KJV) Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
What do you think Jesus meant when he said "I was dead"?
Here with another wording:
(KJV) Rev. 2:8 (...) These things saith (...) which was dead, and is alive
How he was dead and came back to life, according to you?
Much love!
Judges 13 has a very interesting account about an angel in human body. I hope you don't believe angels have bodies of flesh.
6 Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of the angel of God, very terrible;
What did you have in mind concerning this chapter?
Much love!
I guess you can't get rid of your accusations and straw dolls ...
Can you answer what I just asked in the last post, or that's all?
... I do not want to loose time reading nonsenses and diversions of the thread.
It feels like I am answering to a bot ... Mmmmh; NO, good bye guy.
Can you answer what I just asked in the last post, or that's all?
... I do not want to loose time reading nonsenses and diversions of the thread.
It feels like I am answering to a bot ... Mmmmh; NO, good bye guy.
Right, the Grand Conspiracy to deceive Jesus' disciples so they'd believe the truth . . . except . . . how does proving to the disciples that Jesus has a physical body when He doesn't really, how is that showing them truth? It would all be a deception. Why not show them the "real Jesus"? But He did, in fact.
Much love!
The disciples needed to know Jesus was back to life; not that he got the same body of flesh.
They did understand that.
1 Tom. 6:13 I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; 14 that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.
They did understand that.
1 Tom. 6:13 I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; 14 that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 which in its own times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.
Do you mean this one?
So? Don't you believe that to rise from the dead is to make live someone who is dead, like Jesus said in John 11:25?
John 11:25 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
While this is speaking of resurrection, the wording here is markedly different from, for instance,
Matthew 17:9 KJV
9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
I don't know how much into the Greek you want to go, but there are different words used.
Why does this matter?
For one thing, we should be thinking in the same ways the Bible presents this, as with all else.
Of course resurrection is life from death. But not every place in the Bible that speaks of resurrection speaks in those terms. We should understand the distinctions in what we are reading.
Much love!
In the imagination of some, Jesus was somewhere dealing with the suffering of not having a body of flesh, and his disciples believed that... so according to that fantasy, the disciples were suffering that Jesus did not have a body because of that so he couldn't talk to them. At the third day he got his body back, so they were happy again ...
Wait, what? It was not like that; the story is very different. What was the real story about?
Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, The things concerning Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we hoped that it was he who should redeem Israel. Yea and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things came to pass. 22 Moreover certain women of our company amazed us, having been early at the tomb; 23 and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 And certain of them that were with us went to the tomb, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
Aaaah; Ok. Now it does make real sense. ;)
Wait, what? It was not like that; the story is very different. What was the real story about?
Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, The things concerning Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we hoped that it was he who should redeem Israel. Yea and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things came to pass. 22 Moreover certain women of our company amazed us, having been early at the tomb; 23 and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 And certain of them that were with us went to the tomb, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
Aaaah; Ok. Now it does make real sense. ;)
Then why the 'deception', showing falsely that He had?
Not that this was a deception, only that you say it was.
Much love!
I believe myself to be in agreement with scripture when I say that when Jesus was resurrected from the dead, he was resurrected with a spiritual body, not a fleshly body or human body. I believe the scriptures show us that Jesus sacrificed that physical human body he had before he was put to death, and that he was resurrected with a spiritual body at 1Peter 3:18, what others choose to believe is their choice.
I know many people believe that Christ took his fleshly body or human body to heaven. They believe this because they point to the fact that when Christ was raised from the dead, his fleshly body or human body was no longer in the tomb(Mark 16:5-7) Also, after his death Jesus appeared to his disciples in a fleshly body to show them that he was alive. Once He even had the apostle Thomas put his hand into the hole in His side so that Thomas would believe that He had actually been resurrected. (John 20:24-27) So they believe such scriptures prove that Jesus was resurrected with the same body in which he was put to death. However at Mark 16: 9-12 shows us that after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his apostles and disciples with different physical or fleshly bodies not the same exact physical or fleshly body. This helps me understand why Mary Magdalene and the apostles and disciples of Jesus didn't recognize him when Jesus first appeared to them with a physical or fleshly body. It was only parts of three days after Jesus death and they forgot what Jesus looked like? Also as Mark 16:9-12 shows us that Jesus appeared in different forms.
It was something Jesus said or the way he did something that the apostles recognized that it was Jesus, it wasn't the physical body that Jesus appeared to them with that they recognized that it was Jesus.
The scripture at 1 Peter 3:18 says, "For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." The research I have done on 1 Peter 3:18 concerning the Greek words, "Flesh" and "Spirit" show that the apostle Peter contrasts the Greek words, "Flesh" and "Spirit." So this scripture teaches us that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit not as a person of flesh. The scriptures at 1 Corinthians 15:44, 45 show us that the apostle Paul taught that Jesus was made a life giving spirit when he was resurrected.
In explaining the resurrection of the Seed, which is Jesus Christ, the apostle Peter writes that he was ‘put to death in the flesh, but was made alive in the spirit.’ (1 Pet. 3:18) His fellow apostle Paul, in dealing with the subject of the resurrection of Christ’s associates, draws upon an agricultural illustration. He argues: “What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. . . . So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.” (1 Cor. 15:36-44) Those composing the ‘seed of the woman,’ “Abraham’s seed,” therefore die, giving up earthly bodies of corruptible flesh, and are resurrected with glorious incorruptible bodies. They are resurrected with immortal, incorruptible spirit bodies.
God removed Jesus’ body to fulfill what had been written in the scriptures at Psalms 16:10 and Acts 2:31. So YHWH God saw fit to remove Jesus’ body, even as he had done before with Moses’ body. (Deuteronomy 34:5, 6) Also, if the body had been left in the tomb, Jesus’ disciples could not have understood that he had been raised from the dead, since at that time they did not fully appreciate spiritual things, because they had not yet been baptized with Holy Spirit.
Jesus after his resurrection although resurrected as a spirit was able to materialized or take on a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. In order to convince Thomas and the other apostles and disciples of who He was. He appeared, or seemed to be, fully human, able to eat and drink, just as did the angels that Abraham once entertained at Genesis 18:8.(Hebrews 13:2)
