What Should A Person Do If They Miss The Rapture ?

[teamventure]

They are... believers, which is how... those wonderful works were worked 'through' them by The Holy Spirit. Those acts of prophesying in Christ's Name, casting out devils in His Name, etc., are works only The Holy Spirit could do through them. So it would be beneficial to you to pay heed to our Lord's Message there in Matt.7, and try to understand just why... He will turn those away when He returns.

veteran when i asked for scriptual support on your specific stance i wasn't asking for proof of a post trib rapture/catching away.
i was asking for scriptural support for believing that someone who believes in an imminent rapture will fall for the antuchrist.

 

[Lively Stone]

They are... believers, which is how... those wonderful works were worked 'through' them by The Holy Spirit. Those acts of prophesying in Christ's Name, casting out devils in His Name, etc., are works only The Holy Spirit could do through them. So it would be beneficial to you to pay heed to our Lord's Message there in Matt.7, and try to understand just why... He will turn those away when He returns.

Jesus says Himself he turns people away who do not do the will of God.

 

[veteran]

veteran when i asked for scriptual support on your specific stance i wasn't asking for proof of a post trib rapture/catching away.
i was asking for scriptural support for believing that someone who believes in an imminent rapture will fall for the antuchrist.

You must have missed my response, which was mixed within my post #105 to Rach.

I specifically asked you to interpret for me the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture.

Yes, this is what I've been trying to say. We know Jesus will return visibly, physically and with absolute power over all. We know that when He returns every single person will see it. Now granted...as you believe in the Rapture, unsaved people would not see or know at this time...but still, the saved would!! And then when He returned after the Trib, everyone would! But even if no pre-trib Rapture occurs, the Bible is clear...when Jesus returns visibly to earth, we will know in a flash, in a second...in an undeniable, unquenchable, amazed wonder of His glory! There is simply no room in this biblical interpretation for this scenario: "hey bob, turn on the tellie, there's this guy performing all kinds of miracles...and they're real too!!" or "man, I was just walking down the street, and right there in front of me this guy healed a person who had been hit by a car!" This is all knowledge brought from an outside source of information. When Jesus returns we won't need a friend to tell us, we won't be ignorant to the fact until we bump into Him performing some miracle. The Bible warns us to keep this fact in mind, and if we do, it won't be possible for us to be fooled.

The great falling away (apostasia) that Paul mentioned in relation to a false one coming to sit in the temple of God per 2 Thess.2 is not outside God's Word. Someone saying that warning Paul gave there is an outside idea away from Scripture shows how they intend to simply disregard that Scripture as written, as also with the Matt.24:23-26 and Rev.13:11-17 warnings Christ gave about the coming of a false one to work great signs and wonders, deceiving many.

 

[teamventure]

You must have missed my response, which was mixed within my post #105 to Rach.

I specifically asked you to interpret for me the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture.

i interpret luke 17:34-37 as a description of the rapture. what does that have to do with your outragious claims? are you the only person who believes that pre tribbers specifically will fall for the antichrist?

 

[veteran]

i interpret luke 17:34-37 as a description of the rapture. what does that have to do with your outragious claims? are you the only person who believes that pre tribbers specifically will fall for the antichrist?

Cover that Luke 17:34-37 for me, and I'll show you.

 

[teamventure]

i answered your question. now if you'll please answer mine.

 

[Rach1370]

The great falling away (apostasia) that Paul mentioned in relation to a false one coming to sit in the temple of God per 2 Thess.2 is not outside God's Word. Someone saying that warning Paul gave there is an outside idea away from Scripture shows how they intend to simply disregard that Scripture as written, as also with the Matt.24:23-26 and Rev.13:11-17 warnings Christ gave about the coming of a false one to work great signs and wonders, deceiving many.

Ok, first, the great falling away is about people who were supposedly believers, who ceased to believe. Not about believers who are fooled by the Antichrist into false worship. 2 Thess 2 is linked to what Jesus says in Matt 24:10..."At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other." To turn deliberately away from Jesus is different than to be tricked into worshipping someone who you 'think' is Jesus. It may still lead to the same place, but it is fundamentally different.

Besides, I would debate the true status of those who turn away. So many people today who attend church regularly, live a good life and call themselves Christians, do not have a saving relationship with Jesus. In the last days when persecution increases and it becomes hard to be a Christian, I believe those people will not only step away from their pretence, but actively hate us because of their perceived loss and hardship. But that is really another topic, whether salvation is eternal or not, whether people have the choice to leave the grace given them, or if Jesus holds on to them regardless.

As far as the Antichrist deceiving many...I have not a doubt. How many false morons today have fooled many into joining a cult, and all they have is a smooth tongue. The Antichrist will have actual power that he will use visibly. Even an atheist would have a hard time refuting the 'supernatural' power he displays. But will he be able to fool those of us who are steadily watching the sky for Jesus' return?? That's the question, and as we have; 1 passages that tell us that these 'miracles' will indeed be astounding, but still not possible to deceive the elect, and 2 a possible debate about who the people are that will 'fall away'. As I seriously doubt their salvation status before that date, I'm still not being swayed to believe that some person who shows up on the scene doing admittedly amazing things, will fool me into believing He's Jesus. I'm telling you I WILL know when my Lord and Saviour returns...He's promised all who follow Him just that. Yes we are to remain vigilant, but that's how we know we won't be fooled.

 

[veteran]

Ok, first, the great falling away is about people who were supposedly believers, who ceased to believe. Not about believers who are fooled by the Antichrist into false worship. 2 Thess 2 is linked to what Jesus says in Matt 24:10..."At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other." To turn deliberately away from Jesus is different than to be tricked into worshipping someone who you 'think' is Jesus. It may still lead to the same place, but it is fundamentally different.

The great falling away (apostasia) Paul spoke of in 2 Thess.2 has yet... to occur. Why? Because Paul associated it with the subject of a coming false one he also mentioned along with that.

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

Many are wrongly taught to leave off that verse 4, and try to separate the events of verse 3 apart from it. That's not how Paul gave it though. Both of those verse's events are tied together.

That temple Paul mentioned is not about Christ's Church. It's about a physical temple in Jerusalem, and the false one per the Book of Daniel involving the "abomination of desolation" prophecy, which Christ also warned about in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13.

II Th 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(KJV)

Matt 24:24-26
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
(KJV)

Rev 13:12-14
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(KJV)

All three of those Scripture examples are tied together about a particular false one coming to work great signs, wonders, and miracles, on earth, deceiving the majority of the world.

Those blinded about that are subject to that great falling away Paul warned of. And any... doctrine which goes directly opposed to that as written, is a doctrine from false prophets!

 

[teamventure]

still waiting on your scriptural support of your stance.... still haven't seen any..

 

[veteran]

still waiting on your scriptural support of your stance.... still haven't seen any..

So now you're too scared to read and interpret the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture for us?


Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

With how the pre-trib rapture school uses that Scripture, you well ought to be scared to interpret that Scripture for us.

 

[justaname]

So now you're too scared to read and interpret the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture for us?


Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

With how the pre-trib rapture school uses that Scripture, you well ought to be scared to interpret that Scripture for us.

With this I can say first of all, the eagle is a scavenger bird of prey, they are known as opportunists. Now some teach that those taken are taken in judgement.

 

[teamventure]

Cover that Luke 17:34-37 for me, and I'll show you.

i read the whole passage and it seems to be referring to people being removed for judgement. from what i'm hearing at the end of the trib and ushering into the 1,000 years.

just read your last post after posting the above. and no, i wasn't scared at all. why should i be?

 

[veteran]

i read the whole passage and it seems to be referring to people being removed for judgement. from what i'm hearing at the end of the trib and ushering into the 1,000 years.

just read your last post after posting the above. and no, i wasn't scared at all. why should i be?

Haven't you supported the idea of a pre-trib rapture on this Forum? You said the following in an above post here...

teamventure: "i interpret luke 17:34-37 as a description of the rapture. what does that have to do with your outragious claims? are you the only person who believes that pre tribbers specifically will fall for the antichrist?"

First you said that's "a description of the rapture", and now you say it's about people "being removed for judgment".

How is it then, that the pre-trib rapture school teaches those first ones 'taken' are removed by Christ prior to the tribulation, and those left remaining are left on earth to go through the tribulation???

Also, how can those first ones 'taken' be about a gathering to Christ Jesus, when He specifically replied to His disciples in Luke 17:37 those taken are found wheresoever the fake eagles (scavenger fowl) are gathered? Also, why did our Lord Jesus point to those first ones taken as being like a dead "carcase" in the Matt.24:28 version of His reply???

If you cannot understand that being 'taken' like a dead "carcase" to be gathered among scavenger birds is NOT about being raptured to our Lord Jesus, then God help you!

 

[teamventure]

Haven't you supported the idea of a pre-trib rapture on this Forum?

all you do is answer questions with more questions. i've answered yours and yes i've supported the idea of a pre trib rapture now can you answer my questions?
(honestly we don't disagree on most subjects but you seem to beat around the bush instead of getting to the point)

 

[Foreigner]

What Should A Person Do If They Miss The Rapture ?


-- Celebrate the fact that you are actually going to have the chance to live your faith (in very, very real terms) and have the opportunity to die for it.

 

[veteran]

all you do is answer questions with more questions. i've answered yours and yes i've supported the idea of a pre trib rapture now can you answer my questions?
(honestly we don't disagree on most subjects but you seem to beat around the bush instead of getting to the point)

All you've done is evade... the simplicity of the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture.

Those who hold to a pre-trib rapture theory have... to evade that Scripture, because the pre-trib school uses it minus the 37th verse to try and support their idea that the first one 'taken' is by Christ Jesus, with the other left behind to suffer the tribulation.

You're evasion of that Scripture has been pointed out to you, which should be quite a revelation to you that the pre-trib school is lying to you with their first one taken ideas.

 

[teamventure]

All you've done is evade... the simplicity of the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture.

Those who hold to a pre-trib rapture theory have... to evade that Scripture, because the pre-trib school uses it minus the 37th verse to try and support their idea that the first one 'taken' is by Christ Jesus, with the other left behind to suffer the tribulation.

You're evasion of that Scripture has been pointed out to you, which should be quite a revelation to you that the pre-trib school is lying to you with their first one taken ideas.

congradulations veteran. you have officially made a fool of yourself. read my post #132 where i state that my enterpretation of those verses in luke is someone being removed for judgement..

 

[veteran]

congradulations veteran. you have officially made a fool of yourself. read my post #132 where i state that my enterpretation of those verses in luke is someone being removed for judgement..

The foolish mind is on you, because that's not how the Pre-trib Rapture School teaches those Luke 17 verses!

They teach instead, that the one being removed... is by Christ Jesus to Heaven, to be where He is!

 

[teamventure]

who said i believe everything that comes out of the pre trib camp? where did i say that i'm even 100% pre trib myself. i've supported the idea and am open to it.
the foolish mind comment is also illogical if i'm wrong about a pre trib rapture to begin with.
i love you veteran, but the truth is i believe the rapture to be imminent, which means it could happen before, after, or in the middle of the tribulation.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

So now you're too scared to read and interpret the Luke 17:34-37 Scripture for us?

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

With how the pre-trib rapture school uses that Scripture, you well ought to be scared to interpret that Scripture for us.

Allow me. (Of course, you're not going to like my answer, but, oh well.)

Luke 17:34-37
34 "Legoo humin, tautee tee nukti esontai duo epi klinees mias, ho heis paralee(m)ftheesetai kai ho heteros afetheesetai;
35 esontai duo aleethousai epi to auto, hee mia paralee(m)ftheesetai, he de hetera afetheesetai.
36 Duo esontai en too agroo, ho heis paralee(m)ftheesetai, kai ho heteros afetheesetai."
37 Kai apokrithentes legousin autoo, "Pou, Kurie?" Ho de eipen autois, "Hopou to sooma ekei kai hoi aetoi episunachtheesontai."

Luke 17:34-37
34 "Legoo = 34 “I-say
humin, = to-you,
tautee = in-that
tee = (the)
nukti = night
esontai = there-shall-be
duo = two
epi = upon
klinees = bed
mias, = one,
ho = the
heis = one (masculine)
paralee(m)ftheesetai = shall-be-received-along-side
kai = and
ho = the
heteros = other-one (masculine)
afetheesetai; = shall-be-sent-forth;
35 esontai = 35 there-shall-be
duo = two
aleethousai = mill-grinding
epi = upon
to = the
auto, = herself,
hee = the
mia = one (feminine)
paraleemftheesetai, = shall-be-received-along-side,
he = the
de = but
hetera = other-one (feminine)
afetheesetai. = shall-be-sent-forth.
36 Duo = 36 Two
esontai = shall-be
en = in
too = the
agroo, = field,
ho = the
heis = one (masculine)
paraleemftheesetai, = shall-be-received-along-side
kai = and
ho = the
heteros = other-one (masculine)
afetheesetai." = shall-be-sent-forth.”
37 Kai = 37 And
apokrithentes = they-asked
legousin = saying
autoo, = to-Him,
"Pou, = “Where,
Kurie?" = Lord/Sir?”
Ho = The-(one)/He
de = but
eipen = said
autois, = to-them,
"Hopou = “Wherever-(is)
to = the
sooma = body/meat
ekei = there
kai = and/also
hoi = the
aetoi = eagles/vultures
episunachtheesontai." = shall-flock-upon.”
All Yeshua` was saying was that there was coming a time soon when people were going to be trying to trick them into thinking the Messiah had come to draw them out so they could capture them, and about 50% of them would be captured. His students asked Him where it would happen, and He answered "wherever the corpse is, that's where the vultures will flock." In other words, wherever THEY, His disciples, would be, that's where these deceivers would show up.

This happened in the first century between 66 and 68 A.D. prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. I know some will object to this statement, but one should remember that a "revealing" (apokalupsis, as in Luke 17:22, 24, 26, 30) of the Son of man is technically different than the "coming" (erchomenon, as in Matthew 24:30) of the Son of man.