What Should A Person Do If They Miss The Rapture ?

[veteran]

Denial is an act of disbelief when it comes to the rapture. The rapture is another word people use to describe how The Lord will take us.

Yes people will be able to come to Jesus after the rapture during tribulation. If they refuse to take the mark and they never take it, and Keep Jesus Christ in their hearts and repent, they will be beheaded and Killed for Jesus Christ, as he died for us, and was ressurected. These people being killed by the government are going to Heaven.

The one in 'denial' is very clear here, and it ain't me since I can actually read the Scripture as it's written...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(KJV)


But you have been blinded because of listening to men's doctrines instead of listening to The LORD in His Word. That's why you cannot read that simple Scripture above and heed it as written. You can come out of that blindness from following the doctrines of men though. All you need do is to stop... listening to those men who push falseness against God's Holy Writ, and instead get into God's Word for yourself, asking His help directly.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hi Veteran,
I was just trying to catch up on the posts in this thread and I'll admit that I glossed over a few because of the "tone" of some comments. I appreciate your tenacity in holding other posters to proper exegetical practice and more significantly, to upholding the scripture as God's word and as such, eternal Truth. When people look at the scripture simply as a text of history (or even as prophecy fulfilled) they miss the point that the Spirit of Christ makes the text alive within our hearts.
Having said that, I'm not sure that believers of false doctrines will necessarily be condemned by Christ; our hope on these boards should be to illuminate them with the Truth and dispel the darkness of deception. Back in the 1st century, the Apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Galatian church. Paul issued strong warnings to that church for falling away from the Truth and the simplicity of the gospel. In the case of the Galatian believers, they were being misled by false teachers that were attempting to put them into bondage through the works of the law. Such men were using scripture to inflate their own authority at the expense of Christ's. Paul used such strong language as to say that the Galatians had fallen away from grace, but he also referred to them as "having begun in the Spirit." I can assure you that the Apostle was not teaching that salvation could be lost, but rather was warning the Galatian church that they were being taken into captivity, a danger to all who desire to do God's will, but remain immature and not properly trained to discern good from evil. This is typical of cults. It's also typical of cults that the scripture must be interpreted by their leaders and that any teaching by the Holy Spirit should be disregarded as "delusion" (In the "dark" ages, those that claimed to be hearing from God were usually burned at the stake for heresy.)
I think that the most charming thing about new believers is their earnest desire to do things for God, to actively demonstrate their love for the Savior, with the works that they do. The problems arise when they begin to think that God's love is dependent upon their performance rather than independent of it and according to His character. False teachers commonly take advantage of such zeal for good works and give those that aren't properly trained in the scripture works to do which would seem good according to our fleshly nature, yet oppose the working of the Spirit of God within us and through us. I don't doubt that some of Jim Jones' followers started with a love for Christ, but ended up drinking cool aid laced with poison. I didn't know any of David Koresh's followers, but some may have started with a simple faith in Christ (we'll never know the truth in that regard until we're on the other side of eternity.) Wolves among the sheep have always been a problem, but God's grace is such that He has supplied men (women included in that) who have the earnest desire to study the scripture to prove it true, to demonstrate themselves approved, and willing to teach even those who reject them as having attacked their beliefs. Our beliefs are what constitute our world view, or our perception of reality. When someone points out that we are mistaken about some parts of our world view, it calls into question the validity of the entire view and places us upon shakey ground so to speak. I don't believe that it's possible to grow up in this world, educated in it's vain philosophies, and bombarded by every communications media with every evil imagination of man, without having incorporated a large amount of nonsense into our own world view. Once saved, the necessity of spending time regularly in the reading and study of scripture has as it's purpose the renewing of our minds, which is essentially the reallignment of our world view with reality as presented in scripture and by God Himself.
For years I've listened to quite a few biblical scholars and teachers on the radio, TV, or internet, and I haven't found one yet that hasn't made a mistake, though some are far more accurate than others, nor do I pretend to understand everything and be free of all error. Teaching from misunderstanding is a problem, but teaching from deception is condemning. We don't have Christ's ability to see into a man's heart and know the motive behind the teaching, and we aren't called to judge the hidden motive, but to discern the truth from the lie. We were all born enemies of God and need to be saved. Discernment comes by His Spirit and experience in handling the word of truth. Simply repeating that which was taught is parroting, not thoughtful speaking. We are not called to leave our minds at the door when we pass the threshold of some "church" building or sanctuary, but the scripture from chapter 17 of the book of the Acts of the Apostles calls the Jews of Berea more fairminded, or noble, for receiving the gospel teaching of Paul and Silas with all readiness and searching the scripture daily to see if what they said was actually true.
I commend you for your own diligence, but want to remind you that our purpose remains in correcting false doctrine to the building of the body of Christ, while exposing error for what it is for the sake of love, not for God alone, but for our brethren who need to grow in the knowledge of the truth and not be led astray. The standard of judgment is greater for teachers, not simply because they know more, but because of the possible effect of what they say upon Christ's sheep. Lately I've taken to leafing through my old copy of Strong's concordance rather than use a search engine for the purpose of my studies. It might be wasteful of time, but it gives me opportunity to think more carefully about my response to objections and to avoid knee-jerk reactions to unloving comments. If it's necessary to think before we speak, it certainly remains necessary to think before we write (that's probably why I loathe texting.)
Thank you for the strength of your positions and remember always to temper your responses with love (flexibility is not a requirement.) Let the love of Christ be magnified in all our works. Amen.
Sincerely, and in His grace,
Michael

 

[veteran]

Thanks for you admonitions Michael. Well said.

 

[jiggyfly]

Can they still receive Christ if they are left behind ?

This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
1 Tim 4:10 (NLT)

 

[us2are1]

Can they still receive Christ if they are left behind ?

Only those who are left can receive Christ. Those who are taken are gathered to be burned in the fire.

Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His messengers, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 24
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

See the floods of Noah and the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah are on their way to remove the chaff from earth. Those who are taken are taken to death.






.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, all.

The question was, "What Should A Person Do If They Miss The Rapture?" Maybe if he or she jumps up and down and flaps his or her arms really hard....
Nah, probably not. LOL!

Be extremely careful with what I call "universalisms," particularly those from a dichotomous mindset. Ask yourself the question, "Is it possible that I've read into this passage more than what the author intended?" For those who are new to the study of Scriptures, "dichotomous" is defined as "divided or dividing into two parts." A "universalism" is defined as a "universal character; universality" or "a universal range of knowledge, interests, or activities." My usage of the term takes this to the interpretation of Scripture such that the Scripture in question is regarded as that "universal range" of coverage, a verse that has a "universal character," covering all people for all time.

Some dichotomies are legitimate. For instance, that all people will be divided into two groups, those who are justified by God and accepted by Him through the blood of His Son, and those who are NOT justified by God but stand condemned already.

Other dichotomies are fictional and fabricated according to one's theological stance rather than directly upon Scriptural truth. These dichotomies are then imposed upon certain Scriptures, and the Scriptures imposed upon are then said to be "proof" of the dichotomy and one's theological stance in retrospect.

(Hmmm... That last paragraph sounded too harsh to me. Most people don't even KNOW that they are making such rash fabrications; many have been TAUGHT such fabrications by a well-meaning pastor or teacher who himself or herself was taught by some other well-meaning pastor or teacher! Not too many people are shepherds; most however make EXCELLENT sheep! "Tell me what to do, and I'll do it; tell me what to believe, and I'll believe it.")

Let's look at the two passages quoted above:

Matthew 13:40-43
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His messengers, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
NKJV

Matthew 24:39-42
39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
NKJV

While some may see these as two passages speaking about the same event, others like myself see them as speaking about two separate events in human history. The key phrases in my opinion are "they will gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend," "then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father," and in the other passage "so also will the coming of the Son of Man be" and "you do not know what hour your Lord is coming." In the first passage, I perceive that the Son has ALREADY been reigning and it is at the END of such a time period that they gather "OUT OF HIS KINGDOM" all who offend. In the second passage, I perceive that the Son of Man is JUST ARRIVING to set up His Kingdom. Using 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 as a guide, Yeshua` (Jesus) must reign BEFORE the Father begins His reign.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Some see that Yeshua` is already reigning "in the hearts and lives of believers" or "in the Church" (usually capitalized as representing the Universal or Catholic Body of believers). I do not. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: IF Yeshua` is already reigning, then He is being an EXTREMELY IMPOTENT King, which is NOT AT ALL how the Scriptures portray Him nor how the prophecies predict Him to be! No, I see Him coming to "take the bull by the horns" and BEGIN to reign victoriously, as Scripture predicts. He will be the world's first "truly benevolent Dictator!"

He will be benevolent to those who are part of His Kingdom, and even to those who come to Him for His help from other countries, but He will also be a "no duff, accepting no guff" Dictator! He will not put up with a rebellious attitude in any form! His title "King of Kings" means that He will be a King over other kings over their respective countries. When a king comes to Him for His help and submits Himself to be ruled by the King of Kings, then the King of Kings - the World Emperor, Yeshua` - will take over command of that king and his country! They will receive His aid, His benevolence, His wisdom, but they will also receive His rulership, His dictatorship, and His rules!

He will also conquer those who come forcefully against Him, subduing all of His enemies, one by one, until none are left to challenge Him. To them, He will be a truly awesome and malevolent Dictator to fear, a TERROR to all who oppose Him!

This will all take time, and according to Yochanan (John, in Revelation 20) and Kefa (Peter, in 2 Peter 3), it will take a thousand years to complete.

So, I see Matthew 24 happening (at least in part) BEFORE the 1000 years, with the coming of the Messiah Yeshua` - coming to BECOME King, and Matthew 13's parable happening a thousand years later at the END of the age (at what Kefa says is the Fire, when we move from the second earth and sky to the third earth and sky) at what Yochanan relates is the time of the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:8-15.

 

[us2are1]

The original post in this thread is based on the acceptance of mans folly. So go ahead and try to confuse the issue with pseudo nonsense.

There is no rapture !!!!!!!
The changing of the saints from flesh and blood to spiritual and the resurrection from the dead, of the dead saints, at Christ's return is not a rapture and has nothing to do with the rapture theory.

Those believing the nonsense of a rapture and serving such trash fit in the scriptures that I quoted before. For some It will take the great tribulation and God's wrath to bring them out of their insanity.









.

 

[[email protected]]

Can they still receive Christ if they are left behind ?

Catch the next bus.

Seriously.

According to the disjointed philosophical mess that is known as rapture theory, a new opportunity will present itself almost immediately. It depends, of course, on which version of this lunacy you subscribe to but generally speaking the nincompoops who thought it up (it was concocted by the members of a tired committee during a hot and unpleasant summer in western New York state) realized that they needed a reason to keep preaching the gospel (and asking for donations) so they left in a loophole.

When God comes back there will be NO loopholes.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Son of Man.

The original post in this thread is based on the acceptance of mans folly. So go ahead and try to confuse the issue with pseudo nonsense.

There is no rapture !!!!!!!
The changing of the saints from flesh and blood to spiritual and the resurrection from the dead, of the dead saints, at Christ's return is not a rapture and has nothing to do with the rapture theory.

Those believing the nonsense of a rapture and serving such trash fit in the scriptures that I quoted before. For some It will take the great tribulation and God's wrath to bring them out of their insanity.

At whom are you yelling? I said NOTHING about a "rapture!" Oh, and for your information, the saints are NOT "changing ... from flesh and blood to spiritual," because most do not understand the Greek word translated as "spiritual" and think it has to do with non-physical, non-corporeal, or ethereal! It does NOT! It simply is the difference between a normally "breathing body" and a life-giving, "BLASTING body!" It has to do with the STRENGTH and the POWER of the altered body, not a different material.

Let me ask you, though: Are you balking at the wrong thing? I mean, all of your ranting against the "Rapture" based on anything I said seems misplaced. Could it be that you should actually be ranting against the Scriptural premise of a "Millennium" (that hasn't happened, yet) in which Yeshua` will be literally reigning from Yerushalayim, Yisra'el?

Any way, have a blessed and PEACEFUL Shabbat.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I've been listening to alot of thunder this evening, as well as to some fireworks (which seem trifling in comparison.) We have so little ability to understand and appreciate the power of God's creation, how can we possibly comprehend His own power, even the holding of the worlds together by His will? Our God is awesome indeed. Let the earth tremble in His presence. Amen

 

[us2are1]

Catch the next bus.

Seriously.

According to the disjointed philosophical mess that is known as rapture theory, a new opportunity will present itself almost immediately. It depends, of course, on which version of this lunacy you subscribe to but generally speaking the nincompoops who thought it up (it was concocted by the members of a tired committee during a hot and unpleasant summer in western New York state) realized that they needed a reason to keep preaching the gospel (and asking for donations) so they left in a loophole.

When God comes back there will be NO loopholes.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Amen. Holler On

 

[[email protected]]

Can they still receive Christ if they are left behind ?

The Bible says that Jesus is COMING. He does not vacillate back and forth as the adherents or rapture ideology would have us believe. Jesus returns and that's it. He doesn 't come back halfway, grab a few folks and then disappear again for a given number of days only to appear again and again. Total appearances if this nonsense is to be believed is approximately three or four, not two as the Bible indicates. Modern politicians may be accused of vacillating, but even the enemies of Christ never accused Him of it. Why then do those who utter the rapture nonsense believe it?

Think about it. Use your head. That's that pimple on top of your neck three feet above your wallet.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft..

 

[Saint]

How can anyone who understands even a little read Matthew 13 regarding the good seed and the darnel weeds and still believe in a per-tribulation rapture? Yeshua is quite plain in describing the events of the end of this age. Folks you are still here when the weeds are gathered and burned.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Saint Bob.

Well, to put it plainly, I could still read Matthew 13 and believe in a pre-trib rapture when I was a pre-trib rapturist. I simply believed (and still do) that Matthew 13 has to do with the END of the Millennium and not the beginning of it. The phrases that I believe are important are "he shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity," and "then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

So, the key is to be found in the order of events as explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

So, recognizing that Paul's emphasis was on the Resurrections in this chapter, He lists the THREE in verses 23 and 24:

1. Christ the firstfruits
2. They that are Christ's at His coming
3. Then at the end, when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father

Then he backtracks a little and explains the history of points 2 and 3. Thus, I believe the chronology to be:

1. First, He will resurrect those who are His at His coming.
2. Then, He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.
3. When "He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power,"...
4. Then cometh the end, when He will resurrect the rest, and judge them, and sentence them.
5. Then, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
6. When "He has put all enemies under His feet," and "all things" are "subdued unto Him," with the exception of God who "did put all things under Him,"...
7. "Then, shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him," and He delivers "up the Kingdom to God, even the Father."
8. Finally, God is "all in all."

So, I see the parable at point 4, not at point 1.

Even though I do not see point 1 as being at the Rapture with a Seven-Year Tribulation in between points 1 and 2 anymore, I still believe the parable is at point 4, not point 1.

 

[Saint]

HeHe Roy...I was expecting your reaction and in many ways agree with you.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

So I guess the question is Roy: when is the end of the age?

Mat 13:39 ESV and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels.

We have discussed this issue in times past but you might not remember that

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[Hitch]

Shalom, Saint Bob.

Well, to put it plainly, I could still read Matthew 13 and believe in a pre-trib rapture when I was a pre-trib rapturist. I simply believed (and still do) that Matthew 13 has to do with the END of the Millennium and not the beginning of it. The phrases that I believe are important are "he shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity," and "then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

So, the key is to be found in the order of events as explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

So, recognizing that Paul's emphasis was on the Resurrections in this chapter, He lists the THREE in verses 23 and 24:

1. Christ the firstfruits
2. They that are Christ's at His coming
3. Then at the end, when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father

Then he backtracks a little and explains the history of points 2 and 3. Thus, I believe the chronology to be:

1. First, He will resurrect those who are His at His coming.
2. Then, He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.
3. When "He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power,"...
4. Then cometh the end, when He will resurrect the rest, and judge them, and sentence them.
5. Then, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
6. When "He has put all enemies under His feet," and "all things" are "subdued unto Him," with the exception of God who "did put all things under Him,"...
7. "Then, shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him," and He delivers "up the Kingdom to God, even the Father."
8. Finally, God is "all in all."

So, I see the parable at point 4, not at point 1.

Even though I do not see point 1 as being at the Rapture with a Seven-Year Tribulation in between points 1 and 2 anymore, I still believe the parable is at point 4, not point 1.

So, the key is to be found in the order of events as explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

Since the resurrection is in view it is important to refer to Paul's source ,and Jesus was explicit when he spoke of the resurrection.

How can anyone who understands even a little read Matthew 13 regarding the good seed and the darnel weeds and still believe in a per-tribulation rapture? Yeshua is quite plain in describing the events of the end of this age. Folks you are still here when the weeds are gathered and burned.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

Even among believers the barest possibilty of cheating death renders logic and understanding to second class status.

 

[Saint]

So, the key is to be found in the order of events as explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

Since the resurrection is in view it is important to refer to Paul's source ,and Jesus was explicit when he spoke of the resurrection.

Even among believers the barest possibilty of cheating death renders logic and understanding to second class status.

Amen to that Hitch...

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[tgwprophet]

Many will expect to go in the rapture and yet remain. Our objective is to be pre-pared not to go. Prepare for the worst - hope for the best.

Would God critize us because we prepared not to go in the rapture? Could our friends and family that did not go - make use of the stuff we prepared in case we do not go? Certainly we could have not only possessions to use incase we do not go, but also mental preparations. And these preparations can be shared among other believes that if we go and they do not... that they can be prepared to weather this storm because of your assistance. Many will be persecuted, some unto being beheaded and itis those that are not beheaded or are not beheaded in the very beginning that preparation can benefit.

Many churches teach a pre-tirb rapture and those who believe that will need assistance the most if the is not a pre-trib rapture. Teaching pre-trib rapture does, however fill more pews... for now at least.

 

[oliver]

If you believe there will be a rapture and you prepare not to go in it, you are saying you are in doubt whether you are saved at all.

In that case, the answer to the original question is: Repent and believe the gospel.

If people have been taught that they will not suffer any tribulation, they need better teaching, since Jesus says that in the world we will have tribulation.

If you are in doubt about when the rapture happens, you need to study the scripture more.

 

[revturmoil]

If people have been taught that they will not suffer any tribulation, they need better teaching, since Jesus says that in the world we will have tribulation.

If you are in doubt about when the rapture happens, you need to study the scripture more.

Enduring tribulation is what is taught throughout the bible.
You appear to be another of the many pretribulationist that are obsessed with it.
You provide a lot of rhetoric with little biblical evidence and very little unfabricated truth.
Like it or not. You and all the other pre-tribbers will be here to endure it!
When the world goes into tribulation after the next 9-11, you guys will be fabricating even more stuff explaining why you're still here and why we are not yet in tribulation.

Nobody needs their teaching corrected more than the pre-tribulationist. Jesus said that immediatly after the tribulation we would be gathered.
Pretribulationism is the most deceitful, widely held false teaching of the church age. It's the most extensively fabricated teaching I know that exist in the church and it surprises me how many have fallen for it.....but that's the way the devil wants it!