Infant baptism biblical?

[amigo de christo]

If water alone saves , then why not just throw every false religoin into the ocean and procliam them baptized .
Exactly . ITS FAITH IN JESUS that saves , THEN COMETH the Water baptism .

 

[amigo de christo]

Its real simple . Have faith in CHRIST and do as the early church taught and did .
Embrace all things they taught and did . Simple enough .

 

[Jim B]

You are the ONE JIM B. That said Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking not me. Now you're mad that I pointed out your error.

I never said that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue-speaking.

Here is what Scripture says: "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Acts 10:44-48

If you want to misinterpret Scripture, go ahead. Clearly, Cornelius and others were saved and were speaking in tongues and extolling God. It doesn't say that they were saved by speaking in tongues; that is your mistake. Don't blame others because you can't read what the Bible clearly says.

 

[Titus]

I never said that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue-speaking.

Here is what Scripture says: "While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days." Acts 10:44-48

If you want to misinterpret Scripture, go ahead. Clearly, Cornelius and others were saved and were speaking in tongues and extolling God. It doesn't say that they were saved by speaking in tongues; that is your mistake. Don't blame others because you can't read what the Bible clearly says.

Hello again Jim B! Thanks for responding.
I'm home from Sunday worship. Sick with bad upper respiratory infection.

I enjoy discussion with you. Hope you enjoy my strong desire to never teach my opinions.
My only concern is to speak the oracles of God, 1Peter 4:11.

Jim B, I've shown you what Peter said. Did you read my entire post? If not let's not make accusations based on a lack of information about what the other has said.

You should already know I gave you the Bible answer of how Cornelius was saved, post #96
You can read my response. Hope you are doing well.

GOOD NEWS! I never give my opinions only Bible. Here is my response to how Cornelius was saved. Later I will address your accusations against Peter not preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ to Cornelius.

First you claim Cornelius was saved before Peter commanded him to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
This is incorrect.
Do you know that Peter tells us how Cornelius was saved?
Its found in Acts 11:14,
-who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your household will be saved.

Peter taught it was words that saved Cornelius.
Not a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. Tongue speaking never saved anyone. Jesus shed blood on the cross is what saves us.

To hear the gospel it must be read to us, that is what saved Cornelius. The word is the gospel, Acts 11:14.
Cornelius heard the word(gospel) preached to him by Peter. And Peter said by words not Holy Spirit tongue speaking saved Cornelius.

Romans 10:17,
-so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible teaches us faith comes by hearing the WORD! Just as Cornelius did.
The gospel saves! Not tongue speaking.
Romans 1:16,
-for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. For it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes for the jew first and also for the Greek.

We can clearly see that Gods word teaches us that the word of the Lord is what saves. Not miraculous tongue speaking.

Do you know that unsaved men received the Holy Spirit and were never saved?
Cornelius getting a miraculous gift is not proof of his salvation friend.

If the gift of the Holy Spirit proves Cornelius was saved. Then Judas Iscariot was also saved! For he got Holy Spirit miraculous gifts!

Matthew 10:1-5,
-And when Jesus had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits to cast out and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of diseases.
2 -Now the names of the twelve apostles were, first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew, his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother.
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 -Simon the Cananite and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.

Now you know Holy Spirit miraculous gifts does not prove one is saved.
Believing and obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. That is how we cone in contact with the cleansing blood.

 

[Titus]

Hello Titus ~
Disagree Water Baptism IS Required.
There is a difference BETWEEN....FORBIDDING and REQUIRING.
(In context Forbidding was in QUESTION, because not ONLY was water baptism introduced TO the Jews, BY Jews....but AS WELL it was FOR ANY man...Jew or Greek (ie Gentiles)....and that understanding was impressed upon the Jews to understand...NO Forbidding....”even to the Gentiles it was offered”.)........whosoever.

Acts 10 (in context)
[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Gods Order and Way ~
* Works ~ (of the Teacher) Speaking Gods Word...
* Works ~ (of the Student) Believing Gods Word heard, verified, from the Teacher.
* Student Confessing ~ Belief ... Before/To: Teacher/Other men.
* Water Baptism ~ Man to Man ... Mans’ Witness of Man’s Forgiveness of a mans, PAST SINS.
* Gods Spirit ~ “ON”, ie “WITH” that person...
* Should THAT MAN continue IN Belief...the Lord Gods Spirit SHALL REMAIN “WITH” that man “all the days of that mans Natural Life.
...AND WHEN that mans BODY becomes DEAD....The Lord God SHALL THEN, SAVE that mans Living soul.
....IN THAT SCENARIO ^^, a man “continues Believing By his own POWER”....and that man CAN FALL AWAY FROM BELIEF, (before he bodily dies, and THUS shall Forfeit receiving his souls salvation.)

* Confessing ~ Heartful Belief of Gods Word...To the Lord, BY A man. (A mans Service).
* The Lord God ~ IS the Witness.
* The Lord God ~ Searches/Verifies the mans Heartful Belief IS TRUE, (or not).
* A Heartful True Confession? YES...

* IN THIS SCENARIO:
** The man IS Forgiven...ALL PAST sins.
** The man LAYS DOWN his Bodily Life...Crucified with Christ Jesus.
** The man (being accounted Bodily Dead)....RECEIVES his souls Salvation.
** The POWER of Gods Spirit....Enters “IN” that man.
** The mans natural Heart is CIRCUMCISED...he receives a NEW Heart.
** IN the mans NEW Heart...he receives Gods SEED.
** Gods SEED...rebirths the mans “spirit” (truth), from worldly natural truth, TO Gods supernatural truth.
^^^^ ie. BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

** The “POWER of God”....”IS”....”WITH and IN” that man.
** BY The “POWER of God”...FOREVER that man SHALL BELIEVE.

** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man NOT Believe.....ie SIN!
** NEVER AGAIN, can THAT man SIN AGAINST God.

A man WITH/on God is one thing. <—> mans power.
God WITH/on a man is one thing. <—-> Gods Power.
A man IN God is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Mans choice.
God IN a man is another thing. <—-> Gods offering, Gods Power.

A man “IN” God, is a man WHOM SHALL FOREVER be “WITH” God.

Water Baptism is a “mans works”, to satisfy the “EYES of of the Water Baptizer as a Witness of a mans confession OF BELIEF”.
THE Water (Only) Baptized man...CAN “continue” to SIN...CAN “repeatedly” ask the Lord for “forgivenesses of his repeated sins”....CAN “fall away FROM Belief”....CAN “fall away FROM BEING “WITH” God and God BEING “WITH” him.

Holy Spirit Baptism is “Gods Works”, that satisfy God, “that that man SHALL FOREVER BE WITH God, and God SHALL FOREVER BE WITH that man”.

A difference BETWEEN...”a man SHALL RECEIVE soul Salvation when his BODY physically Dies....”
And
“ a man WHO RECEIVES soul Salvation IMMEDIATELY when he lays down his bodily life CRUCIFIED with Christ Jesus”....(ie a mans LIVING Sacrifice...called a mans reasonable SERVICE unto the Lord God.). A surety of that mans soul Salvation....A surety that mans “spirit” is BECOME MADE Born of God. (Or ie, OSAS).
(Rom 1:16)
(Rom 10: 10)
(Rom 12:1)
(John 6:51)
(John 6:58)
(John 14:16)
(1 John 3:9)

Water Baptism (of men) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS.
Holy Spirit Baptism (of God) assures forgiveness of PAST SINS “and” from there forward that man Can SIN NO MORE and IS WITH the Lord God Forever.

And remembering...Forgiveness FOLLOWS confession of Belief.
Again...Babies confess Nothing.
Noting...The man hanging next to Jesus, confessed to the Lord Jesus, and was NOT Water Baptized...Yet understood he would receive Salvation when his body physically died.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hello, thanks for responding. I wish you would plainly address the issue.
Can a person disobey a direct commandment of God and be saved?

Matthew 28:19,
-And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age.
Taken, can men be saved by not obeying Gods commandments? Specifically to our subject, the commandment to be water baptized. Jesus commands water immersion, Matthew 28:19-20.
Yes or No answer would be so straightforward and honest.
Full obedience to God is essential to salvation.

 

[Taken]

We , After BELIEVING , should be water baptized . Any christain should know
its not the event itself that saved you , if so why did phillip just not baptize that man .
yet we should never not do it , AFTER believing . The early church did it . we should too .
But again i want to remind us about phillip and the eunach .
When the eunach saw water and said what does HINDER ME , PREVENT ME , from being baptized ,
notice what phillip said . IF , IF YE BELIEVE , BELIEVE , BELIEVE with your heart YE MAY BE .
Water baptism follows FAITH . Aka its useless if one has NOT FAITH IN CHRIST . cause the water itself dont save you
IF it did , how come phillip didnt just THROW THE MAN into the water and say YE SAVED NOW .
NO . ONE MUST BELIEVE in order to be saved and THEN be baptized .

In my view; Water Baptism is FOR the eyes of men to SEE. Man made churches (typically) Require “proof” of a Water Baptism, TO: become a “member” of that particular “man made church”. A person becoming a “member of a made made church”; IS AGREEING to AGREE TO follow and obey; THAT churches “man made” / “Doctrines”, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.

By common observation, it is well known, man made churches have Umpteen different “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.”

By common observation, it is well known, “members” of man made churches, having “agreed” to obey THAT churches “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.........Do not obey all they agreed to obey.

God Requires a mans True Heartful Confessed Belief. ONCE that IS achieved, It is Gods Works and Power that KEEPS that man Faithful To God and WITH God Forever. Kind of, sort of, maybe “obey” IS no longer an option.

 

[amigo de christo]

In my view; Water Baptism is FOR the eyes of men to SEE. Man made churches (typically) Require “proof” of a Water Baptism, TO: become a “member” of that particular “man made church”. A person becoming a “member of a made made church”; IS AGREEING to AGREE TO follow and obey; THAT churches “man made” / “Doctrines”, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.

By common observation, it is well known, man made churches have Umpteen different “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.”

By common observation, it is well known, “members” of man made churches, having “agreed” to obey THAT churches “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.........Do not obey all they agreed to obey.

God Requires a mans True Heartful Confessed Belief. ONCE that IS achieved, It is Gods Works and Power that KEEPS that man Faithful To God and WITH God Forever. Kind of, sort of, maybe “obey” IS no longer an option.

The early church DID water baptism . WHY cant we just follow the entire pattern .
IF peter himself witnessed folks recieve the baptism of the HOLY GHOST and then still knew they should be water baptized .
When we come to JESUS , IF we truly came to JESUS , we would follow His teachings
the early church teachings . KEEP the pattern that was delivered to us .

 

[amigo de christo]

In my view; Water Baptism is FOR the eyes of men to SEE. Man made churches (typically) Require “proof” of a Water Baptism, TO: become a “member” of that particular “man made church”. A person becoming a “member of a made made church”; IS AGREEING to AGREE TO follow and obey; THAT churches “man made” / “Doctrines”, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.

By common observation, it is well known, man made churches have Umpteen different “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.”

By common observation, it is well known, “members” of man made churches, having “agreed” to obey THAT churches “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.........Do not obey all they agreed to obey.

God Requires a mans True Heartful Confessed Belief. ONCE that IS achieved, It is Gods Works and Power that KEEPS that man Faithful To God and WITH God Forever. Kind of, sort of, maybe “obey” IS no longer an option.

Our views mean nothing the moment they contradict GOD , CHRIST , the pattern of the apostels .
We are not ENTITLED as this generation seems to beleive it is . WE are no longer even our own .
WE are debtors , NOT TO THE FLESH , but TO GOD . This generation whether conservative or liberal
seems to think its entitlted to its opinions , its views . IT AINT . GODS WAY ONLY . they water baptized
WE water baptize . AND everything else they taught we do as well .

 

[amigo de christo]

In my view; Water Baptism is FOR the eyes of men to SEE. Man made churches (typically) Require “proof” of a Water Baptism, TO: become a “member” of that particular “man made church”. A person becoming a “member of a made made church”; IS AGREEING to AGREE TO follow and obey; THAT churches “man made” / “Doctrines”, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.

By common observation, it is well known, man made churches have Umpteen different “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.”

By common observation, it is well known, “members” of man made churches, having “agreed” to obey THAT churches “doctrines, rules, regulations, rituals, etc.........Do not obey all they agreed to obey.

God Requires a mans True Heartful Confessed Belief. ONCE that IS achieved, It is Gods Works and Power that KEEPS that man Faithful To God and WITH God Forever. Kind of, sort of, maybe “obey” IS no longer an option.

While its true many man made churches do as they do , WE do as JESUS said to do . THEY water baptized , we water baptize .

 

[Titus]

In my view; Water Baptism is FOR the eyes of men to SEE. Man made churches (typically) Require “proof” of a Water Baptism, TO: become a “member” of that particular “man made church

It is true that the Baptist church requires men to be baptized to get into their church.
Men decide if they want you to become a member. Then if yes, they water baptize you in.

The Bible teaches after water baptism God adds you to His church not men who vote on it.
Acts 2:38 they repented and were baptized.
Acts 2:47,
-And the Lord added to the church such as were being saved. God adds us to His church after we obey the gospel.

 

[amigo de christo]

It is true that the Baptist church requires men to be baptized to get into their church.
Men decide if they want you to become a member. Then if yes, they water baptize you in.

The Bible teaches after water baptism God adds you to His church not men who vote on it.
Acts 2:38 they repented and were baptized.
Acts 2:47,
-And the Lord added to the church such as were being saved. God adds us to His church after we obey the gospel.

The problem is most folks are leading folks to another JESUS , another gospel .
THEN attack folks because we wont allow DISOBEDIANCE TO GOD .
look its real simple . IT really is . IF JESUS and the apostels did and taught it , WE DO IT , or choose to be in disobediance
WHICH wont bode well . IF WE COME to JESUS WE WOULD LOVE all things HE taught and did as well as the apostels taught and did .
WE too would teach and do . TRULY its very simple . but most think they are ENTITLED to their own opinion .
That wont bode well on the day of the LORD .

 

[L.A.M.B.]

 Broad is the way that leads to destruction.
Many following this heretical institution will find themselves on the left with their anti- Christ and his beast, in line to the LOF.

 

[amigo de christo]

 Broad is the way that leads to destruction.
Many following this heretical institution will find themselves on the left with their anti- Christ and his beast, in line to the LOF.

Yes indeed dear sister . Its really a simple walk in Christ . IF JESUS said do we do . same with what the apostels letters wrote and
all lovely biblical doctrine . Hearers and Doers . now how simple is that .
The truth is we do what we love to do . IF a lamb has CHRIST he has the SPIRIT and thus the LOVE of TRUTH would beon our hearts .
But many have long taught errors to justify why they DO as they do . lambs dont do that . WE follow CHRIST .
NOW how simple is that . HANDS UP ITS LORD PRAISING TIME .

 

[Taken]

Hello, thanks for responding. I wish you would plainly address the issue.
Can a person disobey a direct commandment of God and be saved?

Matthew 28:19,
-And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age.
Taken, can men be saved by not obeying Gods commandments? Specifically to our subject, the commandment to be water baptized. Jesus commands water immersion, Matthew 28:19-20.
Yes or No answer would be so straightforward and honest.
Full obedience to God is essential to salvation.

Matt 28:
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Human Men TEACH human men ABOUT baptism.
Human Men PERFORM water baptism.
No human man IS SAVED by being dipped in Water.
No human man Baptizes WITH the Holy Spirit.
* Human men ARE STUBBORN and stiffnecked, to SIMPLY HEAR.
* Human men WANT TO “witness” SEEING “something”.
(^^ that was taught in the OT.)
Water Baptism IS A “RITUAL” human men can SEE, and WITNESS, feeling Satisfied, that the water baptized man has declared his TRUE heartful Belief in the Lord God.
....It’s an “indication”...the man has Truthfully in his heart CONFESSED his True Belief IN the Lord God...human men do not “know” all things. Human men trick, fool, lie to other men. A man who Lies to the Holy Spirt is between that one man and God. God has already notified us of His remedy for a man who lies to the Holy Spirit. (Ie. Gods forgiveness is not given and without Gods forgiveness a man shall not be Saved.)

You can HEAR testimonies of men, WHO were water Baptized, (satisfying the EYES of witnessing men) and Later the same “water Baptized man” openly Confess “he never did REALLY HEARTFULLY BELIEVE”.
Men were “FOOLED”.
God is never “FOOLED”.
Men are not “SAVED” and “THEN UNSAVED”....

 

[Taken]

The early church DID water baptism . WHY cant we just follow the entire pattern .
IF peter himself witnessed folks recieve the baptism of the HOLY GHOST and then still knew they should be water baptized .
When we come to JESUS , IF we truly came to JESUS , we would follow His teachings
the early church teachings . KEEP the pattern that was delivered to us .

Be water Baptized if you desire. Join a man made church if you desire.
Salvation is via Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Joining Christ’s Church, is without observation.
Joining Christ’s Church, is via Baptism of Holy Spirit, is without observation.

 

[Taken]

Our views mean nothing the moment they contradict GOD , CHRIST , the pattern of the apostels .
We are not ENTITLED as this generation seems to beleive it is . WE are no longer even our own .
WE are debtors , NOT TO THE FLESH , but TO GOD . This generation whether conservative or liberal
seems to think its entitlted to its opinions , its views . IT AINT . GODS WAY ONLY . they water baptized
WE water baptize . AND everything else they taught we do as well .

You follow ALL the laws and commandments God taught via Moses TO the Hebrews/Tribes?

 

[Taken]

While its true many man made churches do as they do , WE do as JESUS said to do . THEY water baptized , we water baptize .

And thus your EYES are satisfied to observe a Water Baptism performed by men?

 

[Taken]

It is true that the Baptist church requires men to be baptized to get into their church.
Men decide if they want you to become a member. Then if yes, they water baptize you in.

The Bible teaches after water baptism God adds you to His church not men who vote on it.
Acts 2:38 they repented and were baptized.
Acts 2:47,
-And the Lord added to the church such as were being saved. God adds us to His church after we obey the gospel.

God SAVES a living soul of a man that that man WILLINGLY laid down his own bodily life for that mans Belief IN and Love OF the Lord God.
Who KNOWS that ^ TRUTH, in that mans Heart....but only that man and God.

Two men hung next to Jesus.
Neither were water Baptized.
One mans soul Was Saved after his bodily death.
One mans soul Was NOT Saved after his bodily death.

No one is complaining about men choosing to be Water Baptized...However Water Baptism DOES NOT Save a mans soul.
(And there IS “debate” about men who have been “Water Baptized”....believing that ACT “SAVED their soul”.....and LATER they claim, they “LOST their salvation BECAUSE they didn’t/don’t really Believe.)

No, men DO NOT receive Salvation...and then LOSE their Salvation.

 

[Titus]

Two men hung next to Jesus.
Neither were water Baptized.
One mans soul Was Saved after his bodily death.
One mans soul Was NOT Saved after his bodily death

Thief was under old testament. He was not commanded to obey the new testament gospel of Jesus Christ.
All the Jews under the old law were commanded to be baptized in John's baptism,
Mark 1:4,
-John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
No one can claim with Bible verses that the thief was not or was baptized by John.
It is false claim to say the thief was not baptized. Just as it is a false claim to say he was.

Noah was not commanded to be baptized, before the law of Moses
Moses not commanded to be baptized, Old law
David not commanded to be baptized, Old law

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is what we must do.
Let's pay attention to what testament folks were in when using them as examples for how one is saved under Jesus' gospel today.

To say I don't have to be water baptized to be saved is saying,
I don't have to obey Gods commandments to be saved.
1John 1:4,
-He who says I know Jesus and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

 

[amigo de christo]

And thus your EYES are satisfied to observe a Water Baptism performed by men?

No , i spend most my time pointing to Christ and biblical doctrine . But that includes ALL things they taught and did .
Most folks get baptized into a denomination and its rules . We should simply point to Christ , the biblical pattern the early church
left us in the bible . Which would include water baptism for true believers as well .