You Probably Believe This Lie

[Behold]

Why do they think this?
Its because in both cases they are become a servant to their SELF Righteousness. (trying to be right with God based on SELF Effort). instead of trusting in Christ alone to save them AND keep them saved.<<

To be that one, is to be "fallen from GRACE"



.....it even gets worse than that....in the same passage , it says that those that that attempt to ADD to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace with Anything or “ Severed From Christ”......
Scary stuff.....I would not want to be in that position.....some had better pray with all of their might that “ Falling from Grace” and being “ Severed from Christ” are not tantamount to Damnation....many Bible Teachers say that this is the case.....

Guys like me who actually “ Believe” that Old Hymn That they so often sing — “ Nothing But The Blood” , don’t have to worry about those verses.....how about you? Are you among the majority that says , “ Jesus Saves— BUT!” Good luck with that thinking when you stand before him .....

Paul also teaches that to be cursed of God is to teach that you can lose your salvation.
As that teaching is "another Gospel" that actually denies the Cross while pretending to believe it.
Galatians 1:8

Here is the bottom line..

If a person says they are a "christian", but they do not believe that JESUS KEEPS THEM SAVED, then they are not a real christian, or they are a deceived believer.
IF they are a deceived one, and they are "teaching the bible" then all hell breaks loose from their teaching, as there is no CORE truth in it.

Core truth is. ... John 14:6..... The Cross of CHRIST and these devil deceived christian pretenders will never talk about the CROSS because they do not KNOW the Holy One who hung on it for them.
But they'll climb walls to talk about water baptism commandment keeping, and enduring to the end, and works, and abiding, and SELF EFFORT<<<<

You can't believe in Jesus, and not believe He keeps you saved.

So, when a person teaches that they can lose it, or that you can lose your salvation , they have NO FAITH IN CHRIST< and that person, on a forum, or in a pulpit, is doing the Devil's work.
And God knows that Forums and Pulpits are filled with these fakirs.

 

[Gospel Believer]

John 4:10

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the GIFT of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

Romans 5:15

But the FREE GIFT is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the FREE GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:32

He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him FREELY GIVE us all things?

2 Corinthians 9:15

Thanks be to God for His indescribable GIFT!

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God;

.....and, at the risk of sounding repetitive—— “ The GIFTS of God are without Recall— they are Irrevocable “

 

[Behold]

.....and, at the risk of sounding repetitive—— “ The GIFTS of God are without Recall— they are Irrevocable “

Amen and Hallelujah !!

Salvation is a GIFT.

And as you pointed out..... the GIFTS of GOD are : without REPENTANCE.
= He will never take them Back.

 

[Gospel Believer]

The OSAS is a Circular Reasoning doctrine. You assert it as being true and write things like above, ignoring the not being saved implication of the verse. Burning a branch is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of saving it, of being saved. More than that is OSAS ignores the many compilation of verses that go against the doctrine.

The irony is you accused me of taking Hebrews 10:26 out of context. Let's review the text. For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Notice how this verse says nothing about being fruitful? Notice how this verse says nothing about disbelief, as you allege? Notice what the text does say and what it implies?

There no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. What sacrifice for sins no longer remain? In context, this is referring to ones actions that the finished work of Christ on the cross does not cover. And there are many other verses that talk about believers (presumed to be saved) who sin and are commanded to not only ask for forgiveness but to forgive. There can be only one reason why this action is necessary. It is consistent with Hebrews 10:26, there no longer remains a sacrifice for such sins.

Why would Jesus tell us to reconcile with your brother before bringing your gift to the alter? The sin with your brother has come betwen you and God. Jesus himself said not all who call me Lord Lord, will be saved. And on and on and on, Scripture assails the OSAS doctrine. What is the rejection criteria of the OSAS? What set of words would disprove it?

I’ll return to attempt to address this man’s Confusion later today...odds are, he’ll get nothing out of it , but hopefully it will help some Newbies out there that have not been ruined by Legalism so far....these types make excellent “ springboards “ to get the Truth Of The Gospel out there, and I thank them for that....right now, it’s nap time.... mmmmmmm.......( it’s easy to sleep when I know things will be left in the good hands of “ Behold”..... lol.....keep up the “ Good Fight” , my man!

 

[Wrangler]

If I may interject here.....Salvation is a GIFT—- Given to those that DO NOT work for it! Romans 4:5—— “ But to Him THAT DOES NOT WORK, but Believes in the One that JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY —- to Him, His FAITH is Counted as Righteousness”
“ The GIFTS of God IRREVOCABLE” Romans 11:29

Again, if you are correct, it means universalism is correct doctrine.

The flaw in the "gift" argument to support OSAS is that it denies one may not accept the give (or more precisely, rescind their previous accceptance of the gift).

 

[Wrangler]

I’ll return to attempt to address this man’s Confusion later today.

Another Ad Homenim. There is nothing confusing about Jesus saying not all who call me Lord, Lord will be saved.

 

[360watt]

Hebrews 10:26

No longer a sacrifice for sins...

Through chapter 10, the subject is animal sacrifice.. of bulls and goats. It is the old way of the priest sacrificing an animal as a picture for the atoning of sins. It is a picture of what Jesus will do.. a shadow/type.

This old way has been put away, because Jesys has fulfilled the picture.. it's done. He is the ultimate lamb.

So.. for a Hebrew believer .. at the time these ones were going back to these old ways.

The author of Hebrews was saying .. when they sin.. animal sacrifice is no longer needed.. it does nothing because the ultimate lamb of God is who you worship now.

The 'righteous requirements of the law' done away with.

So this verse is not about losing salvation. It's an admonition to Hebrew believers to drop their old ways.

 

[Wrangler]

So this verse is not about losing salvation.

LOL. Sure the verse is about losing salvation. It just goes to show an intelligent mind can rationalize anything.

Same question to you. What is the rejection criteria of the OSAS? What set of words would disprove it?

 

[ScottA]

The OSAS is a Circular Reasoning doctrine.

No, it is the opposite that is true.

Salvation begins and ends with Christ, and It is finished.​

To the contrary, it is "circular" for lack of faith, to keep coming back to the idea that one is not saved after being saved.​

 

[Wrangler]

Salvation begins and ends with Christ, and It is finished.

While I agree with this outside the OSAS foolishness, if how you apply it were true, Christ would not say not all who call on him will be saved.

Obvioulsy, there is a nuance that OSAS crowd does not want to acknowledge.

 

[Wrangler]

To the contrary, it is "circular" for lack of faith, to keep coming back to the idea that one is not saved after being saved.

I drowing man can be saved only to find himself drowning again after making a series of choices after being saved the first time. Linear (not circular).

 

[ScottA]

While I agree with this outside the OSAS foolishness, if how you apply it were true, Christ would not say not all who call on him will be saved.

Obvioulsy, there is a nuance that OSAS crowd does not want to acknowledge.

Why do you assume that? It is not correct.

He said rather, that "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." The exception is rather if one "believes" or not. So, yes, there is a condition...and therefore, for those who do not believe His salvation is "everlasting"--it is not...by their own measure and lack of belief.

I drowing man can be saved only to find himself drowning again after making a series of choices after being saved the first time. Linear (not circular).

If you do not know that a man's living and dying in the flesh is any different than the life of one born of the spirit of God--then you do not at all know what you are talking about. You should not be making assertions at all, but asking questions.

The amazing thing--the shame--is that there are so many who know so little, who speak so much about what they do not know.

 

[360watt]

Why do you assume that? It is not correct.

He said rather, that "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life." The exception is rather if one "believes" or not. So, yes, there is a condition...and therefore, for those who do not believe His salvation is "everlasting"--it is not...by their own measure and lack of belief.

If you do not know that a man's living and dying in the flesh is any different than the life of one born of the spirit of God--then you do not at all know what you are talking about. You should not be making assertions at all, but asking questions.

The amazing thing--the shame--is that there are so many who know so little, who speak so much about what they do not know.

I think many conflate osas with full 5 point calvinism. I believe biblically.. osas is neither calvinism nor arminianism.


So people will hear 'you can't lose salvation ' and then assume someone hasn't called out/believed in Jesus to begin with to get it.. because the full blown calvinist doesn't call for salvation or believe in Jesus to get it. They are saved before believing.


Anyhow... my 2 cents

 

[ScottA]

I think many conflate osas with full 5 point calvinism. I believe biblically.. osas is neither calvinism nor arminianism.


So people will hear 'you can't lose salvation ' and then assume someone hasn't called out/believed in Jesus to begin with to get it.. because the full blown calvinist doesn't call for salvation or believe in Jesus to get it. They are saved before believing.


Anyhow... my 2 cents

Indeed, much is lost to the 'isms.

 

[Scott Downey]

I think many conflate osas with full 5 point calvinism. I believe biblically.. osas is neither calvinism nor arminianism.


So people will hear 'you can't lose salvation ' and then assume someone hasn't called out/believed in Jesus to begin with to get it.. because the full blown calvinist doesn't call for salvation or believe in Jesus to get it. They are saved before believing.


Anyhow... my 2 cents

Calvinism is OSAS, the perseverance of the saints, God grants continuing faith and belief in Christ, or say if people fall away, that is temporary, God will bring them back to the sheepfold before they pass on to the judgement seat of Christ.
Calvinism does not say people are saved before believing, it says they will be saved, if they are God's foreknown to Him people as God has decreed that before time began. It is a perversion to say Calvinist's believe they are born saved.

Arminianism is definitely not OSAS

The Arminian view is that salvation can be lost by the Christian. The original Arminian party arose within the Calvinist churches in the Netherlands, to advocate a revision of the Reformed doctrine of predestination, in favor of. This choice occurred before the foundation of the world.

arminian view of salvation

This verse sums it up well in AMPC
Revelation 17:14
They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings—and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers.

KJ21
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”

 

[360watt]

Calvinism is OSAS, the perseverance of the saints, God grants continuing faith and belief in Christ, or say if people fall away, that is temporary, God will bring them back to the sheepfold before they pass on to the judgement seat of Christ.
Calvinism does not say people are saved before believing, it says they will be saved, if they are God's foreknown to Him people as God has decreed that before time began. It is a perversion to say Calvinist's believe they are born saved.

Arminianism is definitely not OSAS

The Arminian view is that salvation can be lost by the Christian. The original Arminian party arose within the Calvinist churches in the Netherlands, to advocate a revision of the Reformed doctrine of predestination, in favor of. This choice occurred before the foundation of the world.

arminian view of salvation

This verse sums it up well in AMPC
Revelation 17:14
They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings—and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers.

KJ21
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”

Aside from the isms.. osas just means a believers salvation can't be undone.

That isn't calvinism. It's just biblical.

Salvation before belief is in calvinism. If you are unable to call for salvation.. then salvation is given before belief. I don't know when this happens. I don't know any calvinist who says they were born saved. But from my understanding they are chosen before they believe.

Anyway... this aside.


The security of salvation is just biblical regardless of what ism takes it on.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Another Ad Homenim. There is nothing confusing about Jesus saying not all who call me Lord, Lord will be saved.

What you fail to realize is that is people like “ YOU” that will be hearing this ! All those that are standing in line on Judgment Day, “giddy” with anticipation! They can’t “ wait” to tell Jesus “ look what “ I” did ! I refrained form THIS! I Repented FromTHaT! I kept the Law! I Lived the Good Life! I Repented of all my sins before I died! I NEVER committed any of those “ Willful Sins! See how “ good “ I’ve been, * LORD* ! Now Give me what I Deserve! And Jesus will GIVE you what you “ Deserve”—— HELL! “ Depart from Me, I NEVER Knew you!”
Now the line that I will be standing in will be made up of people that think just as I do .....If I am ever asked, “ What did “you” ever do, Mr. Gospel Believer, That I should ever let you enter my Paradise? “ I will answer that I did NOTHING! All I ever did was Trust in your Shed Blood that you Sacrificed *FOR* me at the Cross—- I Believed that you took “my” sins and in turn gave me “ Your” imputed Righteousness—- YOU get all the Glory for my Salvation and as for Me? I get NONE......

Let’s see who gets in..... it’s gonna be an interesting and surprising Day for a lot of people —- especially for all of those that can’t wait to “ boast” about all the wonderful things that they did......I’m more like Paul in this regard—— the only thing that “ I” will be boasting about is the Cross and the Shed Blood Of my Savior......

I keep telling people , and I’ll say it until my dying breath—-That Old song nailed it! You’re gonna see it for yourself someday——- it really * WAS* Nothing But The Blood ......all along....NOTHING! Remember when you are being carted off to Hell, that you heard it hear first....”It’s NOTHING of myself that I bring— it’s only to the Cross that I Cling”......

 

[Gospel Believer]

Hebrews 10:26

No longer a sacrifice for sins...

Through chapter 10, the subject is animal sacrifice.. of bulls and goats. It is the old way of the priest sacrificing an animal as a picture for the atoning of sins. It is a picture of what Jesus will do.. a shadow/type.

This old way has been put away, because Jesys has fulfilled the picture.. it's done. He is the ultimate lamb.

So.. for a Hebrew believer .. at the time these ones were going back to these old ways.

The author of Hebrews was saying .. when they sin.. animal sacrifice is no longer needed.. it does nothing because the ultimate lamb of God is who you worship now.

The 'righteous requirements of the law' done away with.

So this verse is not about losing salvation. It's an admonition to Hebrew believers to drop their old ways.

So true.....The Blood Of Jesus , this side of the Cross was now the “ All Sufficient” and “ One Time” Sacrifice for Sin.....the Hebrews could return now to Temple Worship and shedding the blood of animals to try to “ atone” for their sins....they could sacrifice 1000 sheep and it would NOW be a waste of time.....there simply was no other , or no more “ sacrifice for sin” other than the One provided by Jesus at the Cross! The Author is saying don't go back to that Obsolete System that you have been using for hundreds of years ! It no longer works! It was just a “ picture” Of The REAL THING! Going back to animal blood after hearing about The Shed Blood Of The Cross was, in effect “ Trampling” that Blood and counting it as “ Useless”.....Put your Faith now in the Blood Of Jesus—- “ There IS no more Sacrifice!”
Taken in context , these verses are so easy to understand, a ten year old could figure it out—- only the “ Stiff- Necked” refuse to see it.....

 

[Jim B]

So much ignorance in Christians because they listen more to men than to the word of God!


Most “ ignorance” in Christians is due to the fact that they have been poorly taught and have become “ Poor Students Of The Word”.....They need to be educated ....Good thing they come in here and and at least get the “Chance” to be enlightened! No need to thank me , Mich.....I enjoy helping you out!



“And who is it that ENDURES , but he that BELIEVES that Jesus is the Son Of God” ( 1John 5:5)
The Lesson for you to learn today ? Whatever God Demands—- God provides.

Have you read the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector? I suggest that you read it and see which person you most resemble.

 

[Jim B]

What you fail to realize is that is people like “ YOU” that will be hearing this ! All those that are standing in line on Judgment Day, “giddy” with anticipation! They can’t “ wait” to tell Jesus “ look what “ I” did ! I refrained form THIS! I Repented FromTHaT! I kept the Law! I Lived the Good Life! I Repented of all my sins before I died! I NEVER committed any of those “ Willful Sins! See how “ good “ I’ve been, * LORD* ! Now Give me what I Deserve! And Jesus will GIVE you what you “ Deserve”—— HELL! “ Depart from Me, I NEVER Knew you!”
Now the line that I will be standing in will be made up of people that think just as I do .....If I am ever asked, “ What did “you” ever do, Mr. Gospel Believer, That I should ever let you enter my Paradise? “ I will answer that I did NOTHING! All I ever did was Trust in your Shed Blood that you Sacrificed *FOR* me at the Cross—- I Believed that you took “my” sins and in turn gave me “ Your” imputed Righteousness—- YOU get all the Glory for my Salvation and as for Me? I get NONE......

Let’s see who gets in..... it’s gonna be an interesting and surprising Day for a lot of people —- especially for all of those that can’t wait to “ boast” about all the wonderful things that they did......I’m more like Paul in this regard—— the only thing that “ I” will be boasting about is the Cross and the Shed Blood Of my Savior......

I keep telling people , and I’ll say it until my dying breath—-That Old song nailed it! You’re gonna see it for yourself someday——- it really * WAS* Nothing But The Blood ......all along....NOTHING! Remember when you are being carted off to Hell, that you heard it hear first....”It’s NOTHING of myself that I bring— it’s only to the Cross that I Cling”......

You're clearly boasting about your self-righteousness when you write "Let’s see who gets in..... it’s gonna be an interesting and surprising Day for a lot of people —- especially for all of those that can’t wait to “ boast” about all the wonderful things that they did......I’m more like Paul in this regard"