Who Will Burn in Hell "Forever and Ever"?
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Where are the believers in God.
All I see more of than the TRUTH is lies.
It is going to be a rude awakening when folks stand before God's throne and he designates their place for ALL eternity as the lake of fire to be tormented for ever and ever throughout all eternity.
All I see more of than the TRUTH is lies.
It is going to be a rude awakening when folks stand before God's throne and he designates their place for ALL eternity as the lake of fire to be tormented for ever and ever throughout all eternity.
bbyrd009
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No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it, the son of man
All go to the same place
so try again, sorry
Earburner
Well-Known Member
In case you didn't notice, there is no day or night in eternity, for ever and ever.
Their torment will last as long as it takes to burn ALL of them up. Once that is completed, the results of their destruction shall be forever and ever.
Edit: If you go to Gen. 19:22-28, you will see that Sodom had burned for at least 24 hours, aka night and day.
Compare that to Luke 17:28-32
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day [24 hours] that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
ALL the unsaved will be burned up in 24 hours, in a day and a night, by the everlasting flaming fire of Christ Himself, on the very Day of His return, in all the Glory of His Immortality. Graves (hell) included.
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.
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GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Only the evil followers of the beast who wouldn't 'get out' are destroyed and thrown into the abyss. After that comes the judgment of nations for the rest of mankind. That judgment is also known as the judgment of the sheep and goats. It could also be the harvesting of the wheat and tares.
Those that did not OBEY the gospel and know not God
2 Thes 1:7-10
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Thes 1:7-10
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, most don't read the KJV, and are unaware of the word "when" being listed in two places in those scriptures.
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
It will be a simultaneous event, just as Jesus said it would be.
Luke 17
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Do not be duped by "church-ianity".
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THE DEAD, WHERE ARE THEY? (SHEOL/HADES, GEHENNA, TARTARUS)
I. Old Testament
A. All humans go to Sheol (there are no cognate roots and the etymology is uncertain, BDB 982, KB 1368), which was a way of referring to the place where the dead live or the grave, mostly in Wisdom Literature and Isaiah. In the OT it was a shadowy, conscious, but joyless existence (cf. Job 10:21-22; 38:17)
B. Sheol characterized
1. associated with God's judgment (fire), Deut. 32:22
2. a prison with gates, Job 38:17; Ps. 9:13; 107:18
3. a land of no return, Job 7:9 (an Akkadian title for death)
4. a land/realm of darkness, Job 10:21-22; 17:13; 18:18
5. a place of silence, Ps. 28:1; 31:17; 94:17; 115:17; Isa. 47:5
6. associated with punishment even before Judgment Day, Ps. 18:4-5
7. associated with abaddon (destruction; see Special Topic: Abaddon. . .Apollyon), in which God is also present, Job 26:6; Ps. 139:8; Amos 9:2
8. associated with "the Pit" (grave), Ps.16:10; 88:3-4; Isa. 14:15; Ezek. 31:15-17
9. wicked descend alive into Sheol, Num. 16:30,33; Job 7:9; Ps. 55:15
10. personified often as an animal with a large mouth, Num. 16:30; Pro. 1:12; Isa. 5:14; Hab. 2:5
11. people there called Repha'im (i.e., "spirits of the dead"), Job 26:5; Pro. 2:18; 21:16; 26:14 Isa. 14:9-11)
12. however, YHWH is present even here, Job 26:6; Ps. 139:8; Pro. 15:11
II. New Testament
A. The Hebrew Sheol is translated by the Greek Hades (the unseen world)
B. Hades characterized (much like Sheol)
1. refers to death, Matt. 16:18
2. linked to death, Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13-14
3. often analogous to the place of permanent punishment (Gehenna), Matt. 11:23 (OT quote); Luke 10:15; 16:23-24
4. often analogous to the grave, Luke 16:23
C. Possibly divided (rabbis)
1. righteous part called Paradise (really another name for heaven, cf. 2 Cor. 12:4; Rev. 2:7), Luke 23:43
2. wicked part called Tartarus, a holding place far below Hades, 2 Peter 2:4, where it is a holding place for evil angels (cf. Genesis 6; I Enoch). It is associated with the "Abyss," Luke 8:31; Rom. 10:7; Rev. 9:1-2,11; 11:7; 17:18; 20:1,3
D. Gehenna
1. Reflects the OT phrase, "the valley of the sons of Hinnom," (south of Jerusalem). It was the place where the Phoenician fire god, Molech (BDB 574, KB 591), was worshiped by child sacrifice (cf. 2 Kgs. 16:3; 21:6; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:6), which was forbidden in Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5.
2. Jeremiah changed it from a place of pagan worship into a site of YHWH's judgment (cf. Jer. 7:32; 19:6-7). It became the place of fiery, eternal judgment in I Enoch 90:26-27 and Sib. 1:103.
3. The Jews of Jesus' day were so appalled by their ancestors' participation in pagan worship by child sacrifice, that they turned this area into the garbage dump for Jerusalem. Many of Jesus' metaphors for eternal judgment came from this landfill (fire, smoke, worms, stench, cf. Mark 9:44,46). The term Gehenna is used only by Jesus (except in James 3:6).
4. Jesus' usage of Gehenna
a. fire, Matt. 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43
b. permanent, Mark 9:48 (Matt. 25:46)
c. place of destruction (both soul and body), Matt. 10:28
d. paralleled to Sheol, Matt. 5:29-30; 18:9
e. characterizes the wicked as "son of hell," Matt. 23:15
f. result of judicial sentence, Matt. 23:33; Luke 12:5
g. the concept of Gehenna is parallel to the second death (cf. Rev. 2:11; 20:6,14) or the lake of fire (cf. Matt. 13:42,50; Rev. 19:20; 20:10,14-15; 21:8). It is possible the lake of fire becomes the permanent dwelling place of humans (from Sheol) and evil angels (from Tartarus, 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 1:6 or the abyss, cf. Luke 8:31; Rev. 9:1-11; 20:1,3).
h. it was not designed for humans, but for Satan and his angels, Matt. 25:41
E. It is possible, because of the overlap of Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna that
1. originally all humans went to Sheol/Hades
2. their experience there (good/bad) is exacerbated after Judgment Day, but the place of the wicked remains the same (this is why the KJV translated hades (grave) as gehenna (hell).
3. the only NT text to mention torment before Judgment is the parable of Luke 16:19-31 (Lazarus and the Rich Man). Sheol is also described as a place of punishment now (cf. Deut. 32:22; Ps. 18:1-5). However, one cannot establish a doctrine on a parable.
III. Intermediate state between death and resurrection
A. The NT does not teach the "immortality of the soul," which is one of several ancient views of the after life, which asserts that
1. human souls exist before their physical life
2. human souls are eternal before and after physical death
3. often the physical body is seen as a prison and death as release back to pre-existent state
B. The NT hints at a disembodied state between death and resurrection
1. Jesus speaks of a division between body and soul, Matt. 10:28
2. Abraham may already have a body, Mark 12:26-27; Luke 16:23
3. Moses and Elijah have a physical body at the transfiguration, Matthew 17
4. Paul asserts that at the Second Coming the believers with Christ will get their new bodies first, 1 Thess. 4:13-18
5. Paul asserts that believers get their new spiritual bodies on Resurrection Day, 1 Cor. 15:23,52
6. Paul asserts that believers do not go to Hades, but at death are with Jesus, 2 Cor. 5:6,8; Phil. 1:23. Jesus overcame death and took the righteous to heaven with Him, 1 Pet. 3:18-22.
Is YHVH unjust to do with His clay whatever He wish?
J.
Hell will be filled with people rejecting the Christ and His gospel.
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
The danger of not doing this. The matter is brought to this issue, that either sin must die, or we must die. If we will lay this Delilah in our bosom, it will betray us; if we be ruled by sin, we shall inevitably be ruined by it; if we must keep our two hands, and two eyes, and two feet, we must with them be cast into hell. Our Saviour often pressed our duty upon us, from the consideration of the torments of hell, which we run ourselves into if we continue in sin.
With what an emphasis of terror are those words repeated three times here, Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched! The words are quoted from Isa_66:24. (1.) The reflections and reproaches of the sinner's own conscience are the worm that dieth not; which will cleave to the damned soul as the worms do to the dead body, and prey upon it, and never leave it till it is quite devoured. Son, remember, will set this worm gnawing; and how terrible will it bite that word (Pro_5:12, Pro_5:23), How have I hated instruction!
The soul that is food to this worm, dies not; and the worm is bred in it, and one with it, and therefore neither doth that die. Damned sinners will be to eternity accusing, condemning, and upbraiding, themselves with their own follies, which, how much soever they are now in love with them, will at the last bite like a serpent, and sting like an adder.
(2.) The wrath of God fastening upon a guilty and polluted conscience, is the fire that is not quenched; for it is the wrath of the living God, the eternal God, into whose hands it is a fearful thing to fall. There are no operations of the Spirit of grace upon the souls of the damned sinners, and therefore there is nothing to alter the nature of the fuel, which must remain for ever combustible; nor is there any application of the merit of Christ to them, and therefore there is nothing to appease or quench the violence of the fire. Dr. Whitby shows that the eternity of the torments of hell was not only the constant faith of the Christian church, but had been so of the Jewish church. Josephus saith, The Pharisees held that the souls of the wicked were to be punished with perpetual punishment; and that there was appointed for them a perpetual prison. And Philo saith, The punishment of the wicked is to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains and griefs that never cease.
arviddag
New Member
Psalm 1:6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this is true. But listen to those who attempt to inform you of the actual meaning of "unto the age of ages." Jesus often contrasted "this age" and the "coming age." The coming age is marked by particular qualities that are not found in this age. For starters, while all other ages are temporary as history moves from age to age; the final age is permanent.
Consider what Jesus said about the coming age in the following verses:
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Matthew 16:19-21[indent/]
In other words, the coming age will be marked by life, growth, permanence, indestructibility, and all other consequences and situations which seem to rob life of meaning in this age. Solomon spoke of the vanity and futility of life here and now under the sun. Jesus recommends that we focus our hearts and minds on things that will last into the next age -- What the Bible calls "The Age of ages." So then, when the Bible says that people will suffer "unto the Age of ages" it refers to these ages, here and now under the sun. We are to know that people will suffer "right up to the time of the final age." After that, once the final age has come upon us, everything that belongs to that age will survive. Everything and everyone else will no longer exist.
(Edit to fix formatting error.)
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The thief on the cross went to the 3rd Heaven, paradise, not sheol. So what's the distinction? He was forgiven by the Lord.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Well, I am cognizant of the fact that the Bible teaches about punishment and so it makes sense that they might suffer a bit, if only regret, before the final judgment.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this nice concise, organized view of "Hell" and "Death," along with some logical conclusions you make, which I partly agree with. 1st, I would have to agree with your characterization of Sheol and Hades. Instead of describing it, though, in detail, it simply reflects the way man views death, from the perspective of his original mandate to possess and to subjugate the earth.
When we die, we in a sense lose our inheritance of the earth. We go to the grave, which does not assume we lose our existence and soul. It just means that the passing of our physical bodies render us incapable of participating in earth's existence any longer. And so we simply go "somewhere else."
Hades was just the Greek form of the word indicating the same reality, that people pass from earthly existence when their physical bodies die. We lose the inheritance Man was originally given, without giving any real detail about what existence is like somewhere other than on earth.
Gehenna expresses this in a slightly different way, indicating the element of judgment. A fire disposes of garbage. I don't believe fire is used here as an instrument of torture, to punish those who failed and therefore died. Rather, the fire simply removes people from the earth by the judgment of God, just as a fire destroys weeds or unwanted vegetation.
I must add that I believe the Lake of Fire is not so much an eternal dwelling as if it is an eternal place to live. Rather, it is a final destination, indicating an everlasting removal from earth's existence.
It describes a place as a final condition of a person, being permanently separated from earthly existence. This "furnace" is not designed to live in, but to express the eternal condition of removal from paradise. The final resting place of unbelievers will be somewhere described as "Outer Darkness." This is not a furnace.
In your 3rd section, discussing the Intermediate State between Death and Resurrection, I'm not fully sure what you're stipulating. I can only give you my own take on it.
I don't know what you mean by the "immortality of the soul?" I believe in the "eternity of the soul," though not the "preexistence of the soul." If by the "immortality of the soul" you refer to the believers' hope of immortality, then yes, I believe in the immortality of the soul for believers, but not for unbelievers.
But as I said, I believe in the eternal existence of all souls once we are conceived and born into existence to start with. Where we go after death is nebulas, as I already indicated. The idea simply seems to be that we are removed from earthly existence because we are disqualified by our Sin Nature. We must die, and can only reenter earthly existence by the mercy of God and through the atonement of Christ.
So before Christ's atonement, all who have died have been in a state of non-existence on the earth as physical human beings. But that doesn't suggest that believers and unbelievers have gone to the same place--it just meant that all of humanity shared the common experience of being denied existence on earth until the atonement of Christ resolved things for believers. Only believers benefit from the atonement of Christ, and are allowed reentry into earth's existence, aka resurrection to immortality.
The existence of apparent physical bodies by those who have died either before or after the Atonement of Christ does not mean they have experienced resurrection to immortality yet, nor does it mean they have even experienced any measure of resurrection. Only Christ was resurrected back into his physical body, to never die again. And he did so by going on to ascend to heaven and to immediately receive his immortal body, well before the 1st Resurrection, when believers of the present age experience that.
When someone like Abraham appears to be alive and have a body, it is an indication he really does continue to exist after death and even before his resurrection to immortality. So I believe that this "body" is merely a temporary appearance as if he has a resurrection body--not that he already has one yet. Or, it may be some kind of temporary body, not yet considered a "resurrection." My opinion only.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I should add that I believe God does not say much in detail about where we are in death, where unbelievers will be during eternal judgment, or much about the Devil and his angels. We are not told much about these things because they are dangerously close to occult activity, which is prohibited under the Law of Moses and even now, under the New Covenant.
We can speculate, but we should not dabble in the occult at all. We are given enough to know what we need to know. Beyond that is a lot of guesswork, though I don't find that to be necessarily a bad thing.
Maybe there are hints given--maybe not. But we can always ask questions, as long as we're willing to accept the answers.
We can speculate, but we should not dabble in the occult at all. We are given enough to know what we need to know. Beyond that is a lot of guesswork, though I don't find that to be necessarily a bad thing.
Maybe there are hints given--maybe not. But we can always ask questions, as long as we're willing to accept the answers.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Hi Randy ~
Death - physically or spiritually, simply means separated from God.
...Human Body’s are natural and physical, they die, rot, decay.
...Souls in a man, (belong to God, are spiritual. Are living, by the Breath of God who is Spirit.) They are Living, whether IN or OUT of a body.
...Spirits in a man, (who IS quickened/born again)...is Gods Spirit, and a mans new spirit, born of Gods Seed. Both IN a man, whose BODY is alive. Body dies? Living born again spirit and Gods Spirit in the man rise to Heaven, to Wait for Judgement and glorified body.
An unbeliever (bodily living or dead) is separated from God.
An unbelieving living soul in a body is separated from God.
An unbelieving disembodied living soul is separated from God.
Hades - is a Greek term referring to an underworld of disembodied souls ALSO, the underworld god.
Sheol - is a Hebrew term referring to an underworld of disembodied souls.
Hell - is an angelized term referring to an underworld of disembodied souls.
(Today, since Jesus returned to Heaven, that term refers to a place of UN-Saved, disembodied Living souls, separated from God, waiting for Judgement.)
Luke 16: 16-31 is view of hell, of Living disembodied Saved souls and Living disembodied UnSaved souls, both in the underworld and divided from each other.
(Jesus is first in all things. Jesus’ disembodied soul went to hell and preached.
Once Jesus’ Soul returned to His Body and to Heaven...Living disembodied Saved souls, no longer wait in hell for judgement. When the body dies, Living disembodied Saved souls wait in Heaven, FOR their body to be Risen in Glory, and Judgement.)
Gehenna - is more-so the imagination of what hell is like.
Gehenna../..Hinnom....(references to same place different languages)
Valley of Hinnom, appears in English Bibles.
Outside of Jerusalem is the Valley of Hinnom...In ancient days, living children, were taken to or through the Valley and burned alive.
The Fire, The Screams, The Horror....gave way to imaginations of what hell must be like.
The Valley of Hinnom is referenced in Scripture, and seen on ancient maps.
(I “think” that valley began as a Dumping ground (trash, garbage, human waste) used by the ancient residents of Jerusalem.)
Glory to God,
Taken
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