Another simple disproof of Amil: No more sea

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robert derrick

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This all exposes Premil which reintroduces another corrupt earth like our current one at the second coming, that is sin-curse goat-infested death-blighted.
Already responded to this several times, and you don't even address the response, but just continue in your twisted view of it.

Only them left alive on earth, after the tribulation and war around Judea, will have opportunity to be judged as natural sheep, to enter into the earthly kingdom and reign of Christ.

The earth will be cleansed of the wicked at the beginning.

Those refusing to do the Lord's will later, will be punished accordingly and swiftly. Without appeal.

Scripture tells us that we are coming back to earth, but I believe it will be a regenerated earth (Malachi 4:1-3, I Corinthians 15:50, 2 Peter 3).
Earth and water don't regenerate, which is only spiritual for souls of men.


It will be an earth totally purged of all corruption.

Of all wicked men on earth, leaving only the neighborly sheep.

There's no such thing as a corrupt rock or tree or mud puddle: just natural.

The new heavens and a new earth (in whatever form God chooses) will appear at the coming of Christ.
The only christ to appear on earth, that calls down fire from heaven, is the last great antichrist, trying to appear as Christ Himself, and will have power of Satan to have that fire from heaven come down in sight or men.

Jesus Christ will not appear again on earth, and have fire come down in sight of men, especially not to burn up every man, woman, child, and babe on earth.

You think of all unbelievers, that are not like you, are nothing but trash to be burned up, but Jesus still rebukes your wrong spirit.

Jesus Christ still comes to save men, not just destroy them. That includes anytime He comes to earth again.

It will involve (at very least) the burning up of the crust of our current earth.
Evn in Rev 20, it only speaks of the fire of God devouring Gog and Magog around the beloved city and camp of saints.

This current earth will be totally changed / regenerated – making it a new curse-free environment.
Until any nation refuses to keep the feast of tabernacles, which is when the curse of having no rain on the ground will come.

The ground itself is just ground. It don't know it is cursed, because ground is just ground.

A donkey once spoke to a fool, but earth don't cry out for regeneration of it's spirit.

Gaian religion is false.

The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition.
It's as pristine as day one.

The lion has never laid down with the lamb on earth, and won't do so until CHrist's earthly reign, when He commands them to.

The first Adam passed up that chance, and kept not any commandment of God, including the first one:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The only reason all the animals were subdued enough for Adam to name them, was because the Lord was the One bringing them one by one for him to do so.

Christian utopianism of heaven and earth, will only be approximated by God during Christ's reign on this one,a nd while dwelling with men in New Jerusalem on the new earth.


These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain forever – only in a new condition.
True burnt up and melted, and fleeing from the face of God on His throne. Which will include on His throne in the new Jerusalem.

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.” There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with.

Psalm 37:9-11 says, “For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”

Psalm 37:22 says, For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.”

Psalm 25:12-13 says: What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose. His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.”

Christ confirmed this in Matthew 5:5 saying, Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.”

It wouldn't be much of an inheritance if the meek had no earth to inherit.
True.


What is more, God keeps His Word. He does not break His promise. The reason this will be fulfilled is because the world last forever, albeit in a perfected condition.
False.

It does not make sense to teach that this earth will be completely annihilated and replaced by an entirely separate new earth. that would contradict multiple Scriptures which indicate that the earth will last forever.
True. There is no such thing as oblivion nor annihilation of anything God ever creates, whether natural or spiritual.

Being bunt up with elements melted together is not annihilation.

Another strong reason to believe that this current earth will be regenerated is the fact that different Old Testament Scriptures tell us that this earth will last forever.
Only if Rev 20:11 is ignored.


These passages would suggest the continuation of this earth in some form.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 says, the earth abideth forever.”

Psalm 78:69 says, the earth which he hath established forever.”

Psalm 93:1b says, The world also is established, that it cannot be moved.”

Psalm 96:10 says, “the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved.”

Psalm 104:5 says, Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”

This literally means “So that it will not totter forever and ever." The word totter means, to refrain from moving out of place.

Until it flees from the face of God. It will still no doubt be rotating, but also wandering in blackness and darkness forever from the face of God.

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


So, I've responded again to your words in detail, and have shown where I agree, and why I don't agree.

Now I would like the same courtesy from you.
 

robert derrick

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Who said they did? What does it matter? You are totally sidetracking from thee issue into irrelevancies and futility. Why?
  1. Is this earth cursed?

No. Ground can be cursed by God for sinful man's sake, but it is not cursed itself, but rather it is not bringing forth fruit, because God is not giving the increase.

Ground and rock don't know nor care if it is producing or rolling or not. It's just ground and rock.

Ground and rock don't cry out when dug or thrown.

  1. Is creation fallen?
Angels and men created by God as spiritual beings are, if they are sinning against God.

  1. Does everything around us die and decay since the fall of Adam?
The same as when first created naturally on earth.

Dirt don't decay nor die.

Earth is not alive, nor dead. It's just earth already.

Pagan Gaiain religion with spirits in her trees and water, is false.

Poisonous roots are not cursed. They're just poisonous to certain living creatures on earth.

There may be poison in the pot, but neither the poison nor the pot is cursed.
 

WPM

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Already responded to this several times, and you don't even address the response, but just continue in your twisted view of it.

Only them left alive on earth, after the tribulation and war around Judea, will have opportunity to be judged as natural sheep, to enter into the earthly kingdom and reign of Christ.

The earth will be cleansed of the wicked at the beginning.

Those refusing to do the Lord's will later, will be punished accordingly and swiftly. Without appeal.


Earth and water don't regenerate, which is only spiritual for souls of men.




Of all wicked men on earth, leaving only the neighborly sheep.

There's no such thing as a corrupt rock or tree or mud puddle: just natural.


The only christ to appear on earth, that calls down fire from heaven, is the last great antichrist, trying to appear as Christ Himself, and will have power of Satan to have that fire from heaven come down in sight or men.

Jesus Christ will not appear again on earth, and have fire come down in sight of men, especially not to burn up every man, woman, child, and babe on earth.

You think of all unbelievers, that are not like you, are nothing but trash to be burned up, but Jesus still rebukes your wrong spirit.

Jesus Christ still comes to save men, not just destroy them. That includes anytime He comes to earth again.


Evn in Rev 20, it only speaks of the fire of God devouring Gog and Magog around the beloved city and camp of saints.


Until any nation refuses to keep the feast of tabernacles, which is when the curse of having no rain on the ground will come.

The ground itself is just ground. It don't know it is cursed, because ground is just ground.

A donkey once spoke to a fool, but earth don't cry out for regeneration of it's spirit.

Gaian religion is false.


It's as pristine as day one.

The lion has never laid down with the lamb on earth, and won't do so until CHrist's earthly reign, when He commands them to.

The first Adam passed up that chance, and kept not any commandment of God, including the first one:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The only reason all the animals were subdued enough for Adam to name them, was because the Lord was the One bringing them one by one for him to do so.

Christian utopianism of heaven and earth, will only be approximated by God during Christ's reign on this one,a nd while dwelling with men in New Jerusalem on the new earth.



True burnt up and melted, and fleeing from the face of God on His throne. Which will include on His throne in the new Jerusalem.


True.



False.


True. There is no such thing as oblivion nor annihilation of anything God ever creates, whether natural or spiritual.

Being bunt up with elements melted together is not annihilation.


Only if Rev 20:11 is ignored.




Until it flees from the face of God. It will still no doubt be rotating, but also wandering in blackness and darkness forever from the face of God.

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


So, I've responded again to your words in detail, and have shown where I agree, and why I don't agree.

Now I would like the same courtesy from you.

How long is forever in your estimation?
 

WPM

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No. Ground can be cursed by God for sinful man's sake, but it is not cursed itself,

I never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. Talk about double speak. Talk about theological gibberish.

but rather it is not bringing forth fruit, because God is not giving the increase.

Ground and rock don't know nor care if it is producing or rolling or not. It's just ground and rock.

Ground and rock don't cry out when dug or thrown.


Angels and men created by God as spiritual beings are, if they are sinning against God.


The same as when first created naturally on earth.

Dirt don't decay nor die.

Earth is not alive, nor dead. It's just earth already.

Pagan Gaiain religion with spirits in her trees and water, is false.

Poisonous roots are not cursed. They're just poisonous to certain living creatures on earth.

There may be poison in the pot, but neither the poison nor the pot is cursed.

You are definitely on the ropes. You are in an extremely uncomfortable place. This is normally were Premils run!

Does the animal life, trees and planets die or decay? Is this present earth decaying?
 
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shilohsfoal

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Have you ever considered the idea that this earth (as we know it) ‘in the beginning’ was ‘a new earth, for the old earth had passed away’ and that the familiar story we know (of Adam and Eve) is just part of a larger story?

Eternal life means without beginning or end, so then when we speak of beginnings and endings these are but chapters or ages.

Once upon a time…
I agree.
I've felt this earth is so old it has been made new time and time again before man was ever created upon it.The dinosaurs would agree with me if they could. .They saw it destroyed before.
 

WPM

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I agree.
I've felt this earth is so old it has been made new time and time again before man was ever created upon it.The dinosaurs would agree with me if they could. .They saw it destroyed before.

Really? Does it teach that in Scripture, did you watch a video of that occurring, or is this an invention of your imagination?
 

jeffweeder

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I agree.
I've felt this earth is so old it has been made new time and time again before man was ever created upon it.The dinosaurs would agree with me if they could. .They saw it destroyed before.
When God created this world pristine, it was for Man. Man brought death upon it and it awaits its full restoration after the Lord's ministry of reconciliation has run its course. Then it will become new again without death sin and the curse.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away (vanished), and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, arrayed like a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and then I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “See! The tabernacle of God is among men, and He will live among them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them [as their God,] 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be death; there will no longer be sorrow and anguish, or crying, or pain; for the former order of things has passed away.”

5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true [they are accurate, incorruptible, and trustworthy].” 6 And He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I will give [water] from the fountain of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes [the world by adhering faithfully to Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior] will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
 

shilohsfoal

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Really? Does it teach that in Scripture, did you watch a video of that occurring, or is this an invention of your imagination?
Only a fool would think God could not make the old earth new again.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Not either or, but both.

Any meek on this earth during His reign, will need to be found written in the Lamb's book of life, in order to inherit the new earth.

Just as we today.
You're avoiding the issue here. It is your belief that when it talks about the meek inheriting the earth that they are just inheriting it for a temporary period of time, right? That makes the meek inheriting the earth have far less meaning then what I believe it means, which is that the meek will inherit the renewed (new) earth for eternity.

It does not say anywhere that the meek shall inherit an entirely separate earth from this one after first inheriting this earth, as you believe.
 
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Mr E

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Only a fool would think God could not make the old earth new again.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

He does so every morning. It goes from darkness to light- a new day.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Only living beings need healing, not Gaia earth.

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

And the nations will still need healing on the new earth, which is not Gaia reborn and resurrected from the dead.
How do you reconcile your understanding of that verse with what it says here regarding the new heavens and new earth:

Revelation 21:4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

How could there be no more mourning, crying or pain if healing is required? That makes no sense. That verse you referenced is symbolic and is talking about the continual perfect health (spiritual and physical) of the people on the new earth. The leaves of the tree symbolize the fact that the people on the new earth will be continually taken care of for eternity. It has nothing to do with healing in the way you're thinking of it. No healing like that will be necessary since everything will be perfect with no sin, death, mourning, crying or pain at that point.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Only a fool would think God could not make the old earth new again.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Exactly. He didn't say "I will replace all things with completely different things". He said "I make all things new". Big difference. Things will be changed (including our bodies - 1 Cor 15:51-52), not annihilated completely and replaced with entirely different things.
 
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WPM

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Only a fool would think God could not make the old earth new again.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

You are totally avoiding the issue. Where did you get your evidence for these claims?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are totally avoiding the issue. Where did you get your evidence for these claims?
Isn't he agreeing with us? Or did I read his post wrong? I think he's agreeing that the earth will be changed and made new rather than annihilated and replaced. But, let's see what he says.
 

jeffweeder

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Speaking of the restoration of all things seems to mean restoring something that already is to its pristine state.
Like an old car or piece of furniture and every one of us. We are not replaced right?
 

WPM

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Isn't he agreeing with us? Or did I read his post wrong? I think he's agreeing that the earth will be changed and made new rather than annihilated and replaced. But, let's see what he says.

No, he is talking about a lot of previous earths before Adam and Eve.
 

Mr E

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Speaking of the restoration of all things seems to mean restoring something that already is to its pristine state.
Like an old car or piece of furniture and every one of us. We are not replaced right?

Would you say that the earth was restored after the flood?
 

shilohsfoal

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You are totally avoiding the issue. Where did you get your evidence for these claims?
The flood.
Genesis 9:11
I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”


If the earth is destroyed by fire,it's still not the first time it was destroyed.But after the earth was destroyed by God as he says in Genesis 9:11,it obviously was made new again.If not it would still be destroyed and we wouldn't be here.
 
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shilohsfoal

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No, he is talking about a lot of previous earths before Adam and Eve.

That's not what I said.
What I said is the earth is very old and I'm sure has been destroyed many many times before.Before Adam and Eve were even created.

Those dinosaur bones are actually real.They are far older than 6000 years old.
I grew up in a coalmine camp with fern fossils 100s of millions of years old buried deap beneath the earth.
I used to play is the slack dump where those fossils wre dumped.

Don't even bother telling me this earth is 6000 years old.I know better.
 
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WPM

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That's not what I said.
What I said is the earth is very old and I'm sure has been destroyed many many times before.Before Adam and Eve were even created.

Those dinosaur bones are actually real.They are far older than 6000 years old.
I grew up in a coalmine camp with fern fossils 100s of millions of years old buried deap beneath the earth.

Don't even bother telling me this earth is 6000 years old.

Really? Who told they were 100s of millions of years old? Did they get a video of it? You are swallowing the lie of evolution. It is an invention of the devil.