Another simple disproof of Amil: No more sea

[robert derrick]

In Zech 14, there is are living waters going out of Jerusalem, to become two rivers flowing into two different seas, one of which is the Dead Sea to be healed in Ezek 47:

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Some teach that these living waters are the river of water of life on the new earth:

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

That pure river does not go out of Jerusalem, nor from Jerusalem, but only from the throne of God and the Lamb onto the street of the New Jerusalem.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

There is no sea on the new earth, especially not two seas, where one of them is 'recreated' dead, and in need of healing from living waters.

The river of water of life on the new earth, cannot possibly be the living waters during Christ's earthly reign, that go out of Jeruslaem and flow into two seas.

There is always one or two Scriptures, that plainly expose all false doctrine, so that those Scriptures are plainly contradicted while teaching them.

I've often wondered why there is no sea on the new earth, and for now we at least sea one reason: God will have no sea on the new earth, nor any waters flowing out of New Jerusalem, just to make sure no one can teach the lie, that He will not being ruling on this earth for a thousand years.

The living waters of Zech 14 and Ezek 47 during Christ's earthly reign, are but a foreshadowing of the river of water of life in the street of New Jerusalem on the new earth.

That has no sea, nor seas, and especially not any dead sea in need of healing.

 

[Marty fox]

In Zech 14, there is are living waters going out of Jerusalem, to become two rivers flowing into two different seas, one of which is the Dead Sea to be healed in Ezek 47:

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Some teach that these living waters are the river of water of life on the new earth:

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

That pure river does not go out of Jerusalem, nor from Jerusalem, but only from the throne of God and the Lamb onto the street of the New Jerusalem.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

There is no sea on the new earth, especially not two seas, where one of them is 'recreated' dead, and in need of healing from living waters.

The river of water of life on the new earth, cannot possibly be the living waters during Christ's earthly reign, that go out of Jeruslaem and flow into two seas.

There is always one or two Scriptures, that plainly expose all false doctrine, so that those Scriptures are plainly contradicted while teaching them.

I've often wondered why there is no sea on the new earth, and for now we at least sea one reason: God will have no sea on the new earth, nor any waters flowing out of New Jerusalem, just to make sure no one can teach the lie, that He will not being ruling on this earth for a thousand years.

The living waters of Zech 14 and Ezek 47 during Christ's earthly reign, are but a foreshadowing of the river of water of life in the street of New Jerusalem on the new earth.

That has no sea, nor seas, and especially not any dead sea in need of healing.

Once again Jesus reveals what this meant

John 7:37-39
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

This was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit entered the disciples when they were in Jerusalem and then it went out to the world through them as they took the gospel to the world.

 

[robert derrick]

Once again Jesus reveals what this meant

John 7:37-39
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

This was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit entered the disciples when they were in Jerusalem and then it went out to the world through them as they took the gospel to the world.

Once someone spiritualizes or symbolizes away the physical fulfillment of prophecy, so that there is no physical fulfillment, then there is no sense in debating physical fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[robert derrick]

Spiritualizing Scripture is not the problem, but rather the problem is denying the physical fulfillment of prophecy, while doing so.

Spiritualizing the Scripture, in order to disannul it's physical fulfillment, is purposeful false interpretation of prophecy of Scripture.

And to deny Zech 14 and Ezek 47 as ever being fulfilled physically on this earth, does the same any created earth, including the new earth.

The teaching of Amil is that Zech 14 is only physically fulfilled on the new earth, and specifically not on this earth.

Which means there must be a sea on the new earth to go into, and that it does go out of New Jeruslaem, and not into the street of New Jerusalem only.

If Zech 14 and Ezek 46 is only symbolic of spirituality today, and never applies to this earth physically, then neither can it be applied physically to the new earth: it is only symbol and myth, so far as being physically on any earth is concerned.

Once again, spiritualizing any Scripture for oneself is fine, but it is not a license to do away any plain physical prophecy of Scripture. That turns the Bible into just another book of fables and myths, with spiritual teachings and lessons.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

They were doing so in Peter's day, about the power and coming of the Lord, and today it is nothing new.

 

[covenantee]

Once someone spiritualizes or symbolizes away the physical fulfillment of prophecy, so that there is no physical fulfillment, then there is no sense in debating physical fulfillment of prophecy.

Scripture's first prophecy:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Is it physical, or is it spiritual?

 

[robert derrick]

Scripture's first prophecy:

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Is it physical, or is it spiritual?

Both.

When saints are slain for the word of God, which began with Abel, and includes Jesus on the cross, it is physical.

When saints resist Satan and flees, it is by spiritual warfare against his temptations.

Satan is spirit of the world and prince and power of the air, that wars with flesh and blood, while saints are spiritually resurrected in Christ, to war with spiritual wickedness in high places.

The reigning of Christ on earth is also both: Spiritually now with His flesh and bones on earth, and physically tomorrow with His resurrected saints, which may be at any moment, when the bodily resurrection of the church comes to pass.

 

[covenantee]

When saints are slain for the word of God, which began with Abel, and includes Jesus on the cross, it is physical.

The verse physically (literally) says that there would be hostility between snakelets and children.

The verse spiritually says that there would be hostility between Satan and Christ, even though neither is literally mentioned.

Which message do you think God was seeking to convey?

 

[jeffweeder]

Not such a simple disproof Afterall. Those with ears to hear will hear what the SPIRIT is saying.

 

[Davy]

In Zech 14, there is are living waters going out of Jerusalem, to become two rivers flowing into two different seas, one of which is the Dead Sea to be healed in Ezek 47:

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Some teach that these living waters are the river of water of life on the new earth:

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

That pure river does not go out of Jerusalem, nor from Jerusalem, but only from the throne of God and the Lamb onto the street of the New Jerusalem.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

There is no sea on the new earth, especially not two seas, where one of them is 'recreated' dead, and in need of healing from living waters.

The river of water of life on the new earth, cannot possibly be the living waters during Christ's earthly reign, that go out of Jeruslaem and flow into two seas.

There is always one or two Scriptures, that plainly expose all false doctrine, so that those Scriptures are plainly contradicted while teaching them.

I've often wondered why there is no sea on the new earth, and for now we at least sea one reason: God will have no sea on the new earth, nor any waters flowing out of New Jerusalem, just to make sure no one can teach the lie, that He will not being ruling on this earth for a thousand years.

The living waters of Zech 14 and Ezek 47 during Christ's earthly reign, are but a foreshadowing of the river of water of life in the street of New Jerusalem on the new earth.

That has no sea, nor seas, and especially not any dead sea in need of healing.

Those waters of Zechariah 14 are... the same River of the waters of life in Rev.22.

What many miss is that God's River and the Tree of Life is to return to this earth for the time of Christ's future 1,000 years reign on earth. This is shown in Ezekiel 47 existing WITH a stone temple on earth, which is the future Millennial sanctuary called 'God's House' (remember John 14 where Jesus said, 'I go to prepare a place for you", and that 'in My Father's house are many mansions'? Ezekiel 47 is about that; it will be on earth!

And knowing the above is EASY, because all one had to do was have studied the OT prophets first before getting to Revelation 22 about the return of that River upon this earth. It is a manifesting that will continue into the new heavens and a new earth time, but it's actual start upon this earth begins with Christ's return.

Then after Christ's 1,000 years reign, there will be no more temple, as The Father and The Son will be the Temple thereof (Rev.21:22).

 

[robert derrick]

Those waters of Zechariah 14 are... the same River of the waters of life in Rev.22.

What many miss is that God's River and the Tree of Life is to return to this earth for the time of Christ's future 1,000 years reign on earth. This is shown in Ezekiel 47 existing WITH a stone temple on earth, which is the future Millennial sanctuary called 'God's House' (remember John 14 where Jesus said, 'I go to prepare a place for you", and that 'in My Father's house are many mansions'? Ezekiel 47 is about that; it will be on earth!

This is new and interesting.

The problem is that time of nations being healed by the leaves of it, is only spoken of on the new earth, and that rivers only flows into the street of the New Jerusalem.

And knowing the above is EASY, because all one had to do was have studied the OT prophets first before getting to Revelation 22 about the return of that River upon this earth. It is a manifesting that will continue into the new heavens and a new earth time, but it's actual start upon this earth begins with Christ's return.

You'll need to give specific Scripture for that.

Saying that living waters on earth means they are the pure river of water of life, is not necessarily true.

Natural living things, are not the pure spiritual things.

Also, the living waters on earth are from the Lord's house in this Jerusalem.

The pure river of water of life are from the throne of God and the Lamb. Where is there Scripture saying plainly that pure river will be 'transplanted' onto this earth out of Jerusalem.

Then after Christ's 1,000 years reign, there will be no more temple, as The Father and The Son will be the Temple thereof (Rev.21:22).

True. And no more old earth and heaven, that is passed away.

 

[Davy]

This is new and interesting.

The problem is that time of nations being healed by the leaves of it, is only spoken of on the new earth, and that rivers only flows into the street of the New Jerusalem.

The Scripture isn't the problem, it's interpretation... of the Scripture that often becomes the problem. The Rev.22:1 description about God's River is 'assumed' to be new heavens and new earth timing.

Yet a little further below in that Rev.22 chapter is verse 14 & 15 which points to the righteous having access through the gates of the holy city, AND the Tree of life, WHILE the wicked exists outside... those gates. So if that were new heavens and new earth timing, then the wicked definitely should not be mentioned there in a time when that Tree of Life is manifested on earth.

You'll need to give specific Scripture for that.

Saying that living waters on earth means they are the pure river of water of life, is not necessarily true.

Natural living things, are not the pure spiritual things.

Also, the living waters on earth are from the Lord's house in this Jerusalem.

The pure river of water of life are from the throne of God and the Lamb. Where is there Scripture saying plainly that pure river will be 'transplanted' onto this earth out of Jerusalem.



True. And no more old earth and heaven, that is passed away.

I don't know where you're driving at with the above, but God's River of Genesis 2 that fed four other rivers upon the earth (2 of which still exist on earth today, Euphrates and Tigris), THAT is the SAME River of Rev.22:1, and Ezekiel 47.

That River, along with God's Garden of Eden, was once upon this earth. For Christ's future 1,000 years reign, that River will return to earth along with the Tree of Life of many trees on either side of it, AS WRITTEN in Ezekiel 47. And that River starts off flowing from under Christ's Millennial sanctuary as written in that same Ezekiel 47 chapter.

So you might want to catch up on your Old Testament study in God's prophets.

2 Peter 3:1-2
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
KJV

 

[Mr E]

The Scripture isn't the problem, it's interpretation... of the Scripture that often becomes the problem. The Rev.22:1 description about God's River is 'assumed' to be new heavens and new earth timing.

Yet a little further below in that Rev.22 chapter is verse 14 & 15 which points to the righteous having access through the gates of the holy city, AND the Tree of life, WHILE the wicked exists outside... those gates. So if that were new heavens and new earth timing, then the wicked definitely should not be mentioned there in a time when that Tree of Life is manifested on earth.


I don't know where you're driving at with the above, but God's River of Genesis 2 that fed four other rivers upon the earth (2 of which still exist on earth today, Euphrates and Tigris), THAT is the SAME River of Rev.22:1, and Ezekiel 47.

That River, along with God's Garden of Eden, was once upon this earth. For Christ's future 1,000 years reign, that River will return to earth along with the Tree of Life of many trees on either side of it, AS WRITTEN in Ezekiel 47. And that River starts off flowing from under Christ's Millennial sanctuary as written in that same Ezekiel 47 chapter.

So you might want to catch up on your Old Testament study in God's prophets.

2 Peter 3:1-2
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
KJV

Have you ever considered the idea that this earth (as we know it) ‘in the beginning’ was ‘a new earth, for the old earth had passed away’ and that the familiar story we know (of Adam and Eve) is just part of a larger story?

Eternal life means without beginning or end, so then when we speak of beginnings and endings these are but chapters or ages.

Once upon a time…

 

[robert derrick]

The verse physically (literally) says that there would be hostility between snakelets and children.

The verse spiritually says that there would be hostility between Satan and Christ, even though neither is literally mentioned.

Which message do you think God was seeking to convey?

Both, because all physical persecution of the saints, begins first with spiritual warfare of temptation and false doctrine.

Bodily persecution is the last resort of saints that don't repent of loving God with a pure heart and doing His righteousness, according to the true faith and doctrine of Christ in Scripture.

 

[covenantee]

Both, because all physical persecution of the saints, begins first with spiritual warfare of temptation and false doctrine.

Bodily persecution is the last resort of saints that don't repent of loving God with a pure heart and doing His righteousness, according to the true faith and doctrine of Christ in Scripture.

Provide just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote of any recognized defender of the true faith who has ever claimed that God's message in Genesis 3:15 is that there would be hostility between snakelets and children.

Just one.

 

[robert derrick]

Yet a little further below in that Rev.22 chapter is verse 14 & 15 which points to the righteous having access through the gates of the holy city, AND the Tree of life, WHILE the wicked exists outside... those gates. So if that were new heavens and new earth timing, then the wicked definitely should not be mentioned there in a time when that Tree of Life is manifested on earth.

I see now how you mistake things in Christ earthly reign, with things only on the hew earth.

Your assumption here is that the new earth is a utopian perfect place forever.

The Scriptures you speak of show that, there will be always them denied entrance into the city to be healed, and so will die.

The place of God dwelling among men is in context of the New Jerusalem on the new earth, not the whole of new earth itself.

When God created heaven and earth with man in His image, He acknowledged with Himself, that no such utopia would ever be among all men on any natrually created earth.

That is why He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. That includes the new heaven and earth.

I don't know where you're driving at with the above, but God's River of Genesis 2 that fed four other rivers upon the earth (2 of which still exist on earth today, Euphrates and Tigris), THAT is the SAME River of Rev.22:1, and Ezekiel 47.

No more than the garden God planted on this earth, is the throne of God and the Lamb and the New Jeruslaem of the new earth.

That River, along with God's Garden of Eden, was once upon this earth.

It still is, and was divided with the earth in the days of Peleg, to further separate the people of the earth from acting as one great cult.

For Christ's future 1,000 years reign, that River will return to earth along with the Tree of Life of many trees on either side of it, AS WRITTEN in Ezekiel 47. And that River starts off flowing from under Christ's Millennial sanctuary as written in that same Ezekiel 47 chapter.

This earth and the new earth have no intermixing, other than there are natural men on both.

2 Peter 3:1-2
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
KJV

That being the gospel and doctrine of Christ, foreshadowed by the old covenant and law of Moses.

 

[Davy]

I see now how you mistake things in Christ earthly reign, with things only on the hew earth.

That above statement means you don't see 'anything'... by the actual written Scripture, most likely because you aren't given to 'see' it yet. You are not sticking to what that Scripture says as written, and that is your first error. So trying to just say I'm in error when you have not yet understood that Revelation 22:14-15 Scripture only means you prefer to lie to yourself.

 

[Davy]

I see now how you mistake things in Christ earthly reign, with things only on the hew earth.

Your assumption here is that the new earth is a utopian perfect place forever.

I don't have to have assumptions, God's Word like Isaiah 11, and Isaiah 65 & 66 make it plain what kind of existence that future new heavens and a new earth will be like. We will build houses and plant vineyards it says. And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.

So I don't need your STUPID FALSE ACCUSATIONS of what you THINK... I believe, and what YOU THINK I don't believe! In order to have an intelligent Christian conversation with someone, they need to have studied their Bible about the matters they speak of first, but you obviously like to speak out on a Bible matter before you've studied it!

 

[Mr E]

I don't have to have assumptions, God's Word like Isaiah 11, and Isaiah 65 & 66 make it plain what kind of existence that future new heavens and a new earth will be like. We will build houses and plant vineyards it says. And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.

So I don't need your STUPID FALSE ACCUSATIONS of what you THINK... I believe, and what YOU THINK I don't believe! In order to have an intelligent Christian conversation with someone, they need to have studied their Bible about the matters they speak of first, but you obviously like to speak out on a Bible matter before you've studied it!

Dude…. Calm down.

 

[robert derrick]

Provide just one name, date, source, and verbatim quote of any recognized defender of the true faith who has ever claimed that God's message in Genesis 3:15 is that there would be hostility between snakelets and children.

Just one.

What in the world is a snakelet? I suppose I should have asked, but frankly if your talking about natural snakes, then they mean nothing to me, other than getting rid of them from my yard.

I thought I was talking to someone about spiritual warfare becoming physical.

And I don't quote supposed true defenders of the faith. Scripture is the defender, and I defend the faith of Jesus by Scripture.

 

[covenantee]

What in the world is a snakelet? I suppose I should have asked, but frankly if your talking about natural snakes, then they mean nothing to me, other than getting rid of them from my yard.

You shouldn't have to ask. The word is in the dictionary.

They should mean something to you. They constitute the literal interpretation of "thy seed" of Genesis 3:15. Don't you believe the literal interpretation?