Instruction in righteousness

[stunnedbygrace]

The virtue signaling is strong in this one.

 

[Lizbeth]

In the OT, it was on the people to "circumcise" themselves to the Lord. Even in the OT, however, there was prophesied a time where God Himself would do the crucifying... (Deuteronomy alludes to the future NEW covenant.)

Deut. 30:6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live.

In the NT we CARRY our cross...but no one can crucify themselves. Even Jesus carried His cross...but it was the Romans who placed Him on the cross. Likewise it is God who does what we cannot do...separate us from the sin nature in the outer man. The cross of Christ kills the sin nature so that the inner man is free to be joined to Christ and walk as Jesus walked (by abiding IN Him).

The higher walk is a NT walk by grace into the perfection of the resurrection life of Christ.

Not disagreeing in principle and love what is being said about separating us from the sin nature. But where I always get confused is the use of the term "outer man".....I just can't peg it to scripture and it always throws me off. Scripture talks about putting off the old man and putting on the new man (who is Christ). Inner man is the heart/soul/mind of a person....which is either clothed/covered with Christ (new man) or the old sinful nature (old man).

Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph 4:22

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col 3:9

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;



Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Gal 3:27

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom 13:14

But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Good question lizbeth. im Looking forward to his answer.

I look at the outer man as that….fake persona who I learned to put up as a shield for protection against everyone. That part that isn’t real honest and that is “me against the whole world.” The part that thinks, I can’t say that, even though it’s what I’m feeling and thinking, because I would be rejected for being that honest, surely my being honest would be an offense to someone.

 

[Lizbeth]

Good question lizbeth. im Looking forward to his answer.

I look at the outer man as that….fake persona who I learned to put up as a shield for protection against everyone. That part that isn’t real honest and that is “me against the whole world.” The part that thinks, I can’t say that, even though it’s what I’m feeling and thinking, because I would be rejected for being that honest, surely my being honest would be an offense to someone.

Yes, I know what you mean.....I'm seeing our fake persona as being part of the old man that we need to put off. Learning not to depend on that anymore, but depending on our new nature and learning to walk in it. Maybe there's a final surrendering up of our old man nature...at least that seems to be what I'm seeking. Sometimes it looks so impossible to me, there is a lot of fear, but we need to keep asking and believing God is able to bring us to that point.

As far as being honest goes, we do need to be honest, though I don't think it means we are called upon or obligated to express every thought we have all the time. There is a time to speak and a time to be silent, and I believe there is something to be said for tact as well (which I think is just a way of being considerate and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us). And like everything, there's a learning curve to these things especially for those who have only relatively recently found their voice, I believe, as we learn to be temperate even in that.

 

[amadeus]

Well, I watched the movie. It’s the first movie or tv show I’ve even been able to watch for…I guess a few months. I still have about 10 minutes I haven’t watched. Probably never will. I can’t focus on them and have to keep rewinding to try and figure out what’s going on, and then I just give up and let them play in the background. I thought I was really liking the movie but…movies just dont hold my interest lately. Odd…

I can appreciate the movie more because I had the background of the book before I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The book is better, I believe, if you are able to get into it. After receiving the Holy Ghost, I presumed that there would be nothing else for me in the LOTR. I was wrong, but that was me. All of us are heading toward the same goal, but our roads are NOT precisely the same, are they?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, I know what you mean.....I'm seeing our fake persona as being part of the old man that we need to put off. Learning not to depend on that anymore, but depending on our new nature and learning to walk in it. Maybe there's a final surrendering up of our old man nature...at least that seems to be what I'm seeking. Sometimes it looks so impossible to me, there is a lot of fear, but we need to keep asking and believing God is able to bring us to that point.

As far as being honest goes, we do need to be honest, though I don't think it means we are called upon or obligated to express every thought we have all the time. There is a time to speak and a time to be silent, and I believe there is something to be said for tact as well (which I think is just a way of being considerate and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us). And like everything, there's a learning curve to these things especially for those who have only relatively recently found their voice, I believe, as we learn to be temperate even in that.

As for “tact,” meh. To me, it’s just a fancy word for maneuvering words so as to…sidestep another persons ego. I can understand why we are taught it when dealing with the world/society, but it shouldn’t be necessary between brothers who have had their flesh put under. In fact, the very fact that one of us DOES get offended with another shows we are still carnal.

I know what you say about that seeming impossible. It’s torturous to be constantly harassed by your flesh, the resentments and emotions and angers and offendedness. I remember what my last thought was before He put my flesh under my feet. It was, oh my gosh, I’m no different than anyone else, no better, no healthier.

 

[Episkopos]

Not disagreeing in principle and love what is being said about separating us from the sin nature. But where I always get confused is the use of the term "outer man".....I just can't peg it to scripture and it always throws me off. Scripture talks about putting off the old man and putting on the new man (who is Christ). Inner man is the heart/soul/mind of a person....which is either clothed/covered with Christ (new man) or the old sinful nature (old man).

Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph 4:22

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col 3:9

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;



Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Gal 3:27

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom 13:14

But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

2 Cor. 4: 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. [16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The outer man (outward man) is the seat of the carnal flesh nature...a husk that protects the inner man in this world. What part of us goes to the cross? The ego... the "I". But not the eternal "I". Just the temporal carnal natural "I".....the ego.

Paul says he is crucified and he is dead...but yet he lives. So then the cross of Christ has inwardly separated him....through the circumcision of Christ in the heart.

What is temporal in nature is cut away to reveal what God is building up in the inner man.

If we see the flesh as a cancer to the soul....and the operation of Christ like a surgery...then we can go into "remission" of sins...freedom from sin or "aphesis".

 

[Lizbeth]

As for “tact,” meh. To me, it’s just a fancy word for maneuvering words so as to…sidestep another persons ego. I can understand why we are taught it when dealing with the world/society, but it shouldn’t be necessary between brothers who have had their flesh put under. In fact, the very fact that one of us DOES get offended with another shows we are still carnal.

I know what you say about that seeming impossible. It’s torturous to be constantly harassed by your flesh, the resentments and emotions and angers and offendedness. I remember what my last thought was before He put my flesh under my feet. It was, oh my gosh, I’m no different than anyone else, no better, no healthier.

I find the word of God to be very tactful in many instances....the Lord is kind not to quench a smoldering wick and a bruised reed shall He not break. Occasionally we may need a pointed word though, and when it comes, it is effective...it accomplishes that which it was sent for, without harming us.

Amen. I remember the day when I realized that "I am no better than my ancestors!"

 

[Mr E]

2 Cor. 4: 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. [16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The outer man (outward man) is the seat of the carnal flesh nature...a husk that protects the inner man in this world. What part of us goes to the cross? The ego... the "I". But not the eternal "I". Just the temporal carnal natural "I".....the ego.

Paul says he is crucified and he is dead...but yet he lives. So then the cross of Christ has inwardly separated him....through the circumcision of Christ in the heart.

What is temporal in nature is cut away to reveal what God is building up in the inner man.

If we see the flesh as a cancer to the soul....and the operation of Christ like a surgery...then we can go into "remission" of sins...freedom from sin or "aphesis".

No. It’s not.

The outward man is you. It is me. It is us. It is flesh— and it perishes. And when it dies the inner man is redeemed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I find the word of God to be very tactful in many instances....the Lord is kind not to quench a smoldering wick and a bruised reed shall He not break.

I think we are talking about two different things. God doesn’t tactfully coddle our flesh to sidestep our ego to keep societal peace. That’s of the world. And if He had done that, He would have been of the world and no one would have wanted to silence or kill Him.

We've let the flesh get into everything. We’ve adopted the way the world operates into our lives with God, when the opposite should be happening.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, I know what you mean.....I'm seeing our fake persona as being part of the old man that we need to put off. Learning not to depend on that anymore, but depending on our new nature and learning to walk in it. Maybe there's a final surrendering up of our old man nature...at least that seems to be what I'm seeking. Sometimes it looks so impossible to me, there is a lot of fear, but we need to keep asking and believing God is able to bring us to that point.

As far as being honest goes, we do need to be honest, though I don't think it means we are called upon or obligated to express every thought we have all the time. There is a time to speak and a time to be silent, and I believe there is something to be said for tact as well (which I think is just a way of being considerate and doing unto others as we would have others do unto us). And like everything, there's a learning curve to these things especially for those who have only relatively recently found their voice, I believe, as we learn to be temperate even in that.

The old man was our old nature that lived for sin and the world . Its the flesh , the lusts of the flesh .

 

[amigo de christo]

Some folks need to simply return to bibles and not over think things .

 

[marks]

Some folks need to simply return to bibles and not over think things .

Good point!

We are to know and keep the Biblical instructions. We know where to find them. We know what they say. We know the point of what they say. So let's do all that we find good to do!

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Good point!

We are to know and keep the Biblical instructions. We know where to find them. We know what they say. We know the point of what they say. So let's do all that we find good to do!

Much love!

I often find myself stunned at what some folks consider grace . any grace that teaches that one does not have to believe IN CHRIST
to be saved is not grace at all . any grace that contradicts what JESUS himself said in that bible
about having to BELIEVE IN HIM to be saved and if one does not they are damned , IS NOT GRACE .
we have this false love grace getting sold through a concept of what is known as INCLUSVISM . AND ITS FALSE .
ONLY the devil would tell lost souls such things which contradict JESUS HIMSELF . TRULY truly i say unto you
i am shocked , STUNNED by what some now call grace .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. Sooo clever.

 

[amigo de christo]

Lol. Sooo clever.

its not meant to be mean . But we cannot omit the things JESUS taught about folks who DID Not beleive on HIM
they will be damned . IF JESUS said it , we must beleive it .
Now he seriously warned those who had not repented to beleive on him
how it would be worse for them than even for sodom on the day of judgment .
No one here knows everything , and our scholars have been lying to churches for ages .
Most have anyway . SO my advice is , we better learn Everything JESUS taught as well as the aposetls taught .
And not allow men to twist away certain things . BELIEVE IT ALL . And preach JESUS TO ALL

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol

 

[Lizbeth]

2 Cor. 4: 15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. [16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Agree in principle with your post. But want to try and iron out where I'm confused. ok, so this verse below agrees with the one I quoted above from your post:

Col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

(As we are a new creation, ie renewed.)

Paul says he is crucified and he is dead...but yet he lives. So then the cross of Christ has inwardly separated him....through the circumcision of Christ in the heart.

And what you said here above agrees with this:

Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So when you are talking about the husk (outer man) and inner man, are you referring to the old man and new man? That is the only way I can make sense of this scripturally.

 

[Episkopos]

Agree in principle with your post. But want to try and iron out where I'm confused. ok, so this verse below agrees with the one I quoted above from your post:

Col 3:10

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

(As we are a new creation, ie renewed.)



And what you said here above agrees with this:

Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So when you are talking about the husk (outer man) and inner man, are you referring to the old man and new man? That is the only way I can make sense of this scripturally.

I have said this a few times already. :)

The Old Man is dead...as we cross over from bondage into the wilderness walk. But the outer man is only crucified as we cross over Jordan. God "vets" His people through trials and tribulations in the wilderness. Because of a lack of knowledge, most never get past that transition walk. "My people perish for lack of knowledge.." There is an entire religious apparatus in place to stop people from entering into the promised land.

You noticed at one point that crossing over Jordan caused one to no longer be "in Adam". And this is due to being IN Christ as we walk in the resurrection life IN Christ.

It's about scale. Most people will never understand what is available through grace. Jesus said that few would find it. What is disturbing is the hatred of the truth and of those who proclaim the truth in its full resolution. But Jesus speaks of this as being commonplace. They hated Him first. And they hated the spies who gave a good report. The flesh has not changed. The outer man continues to rule over most believers.

Putting on the New Man. That is nothing to assume one has. It takes being translated by God into Zion for that to happen. What was once more common a few thousand years ago is basically unheard of today. Will Jesus find faith on the Earth? Already, we see how people respond to the higher walk. I can't imagine a future where there is even more hostility to true holiness among believers.

 

[Lizbeth]

I have said this a few times already. :)

The Old Man is dead...as we cross over from bondage into the wilderness walk. But the outer man is only crucified as we cross over Jordan.

See why I'm confused! If the outer man and Old Man are the same thing, how can you crucify what is already dead? So it appears that you do not consider them to be the same. Anyway that was my last attempt to clarify this. I will just have to let this go for now, I guess.