Who was sacrificed Jesus the human, or the spirit being who came to earth to become Jesus?

[keithr]

... here is how I look at it: God is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like my dad was simultaneously a father, husband, son, lawyer, etc.

That is illogical. Your dad was not a father and simultaneously his own only begotten son. Your dad begat you, and you are his son, but your dad is not you.

 

[Taken]

It seems that many think Jesus returned to heaven as Jesus, rather than the being he was that was selected for the assignment. Most agree that Jesus existed as a spirit being prior to becoming a human, so when he came and gave his flesh and blood to redeem us from what Adam lost, is it not logical that he went back to who he was before he came? So who was sacrificed, God's spirit son who became a human, or the human who came?

If you think it was the spirit being, then how can it be an equal sacrifice, since that being had to lower himself to become a human? Phil 2:7

What God Prepared was given.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body has thou prepared me:

 

[Taken]

That is illogical. Your dad was not a father and simultaneously his own only begotten son. Your dad begat you, and you are his son, but your dad is not you.

God is not the Created.
God does not fertilize a female egg via sexual intercourse and reproduce offspring.
God Sent His Word forth out of His Mouth.
God Prepared His Word a Body in the Likeness as an earthly man.
God Declared His Word is His Son.
God Revealed His Word is Gods Power, Gods Seed.
God Revealed every earthly man who willingly chooses to Receive Gods Seed, Shall also be Declared a son of God.

If you declare your Word to be called father or son or keithr .... you are still the origin and source of your Word.

 

[ScottA]

It was a garden (park) that God planted for Adam to live in (Genesis 2:8,15). It wasn't where God lived. God would occasionally visit and walk with Adam and Eve, so only then were they in His presence. God drove them out of the garden because:

Genesis 3 (WEB):

(22) Yahweh God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever—”​

(23) Therefore Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.​

Nevertheless, God did not competely abandon mankind. The verses I quoted showed that some experienced the presence of God at times. You were suggesting that all men, including Jesus, have been seperated from God, but God has worked though many people and was certainly working through Jesus, and God was with him (Acts 10:38).

Like I said: Semantics. It also says God drove them "out", which also serves the point I was making...that sin separated/separates us from God. This world became the valley of the shadow of death, this present darkness that Jesus descended into. If it it were not so He would not have come.

 

[ScottA]

There you go Scott, straight from the Bible my friend. Sometimes all it takes is guidance sir.

Where does that leave you? How would you now answer your own question of who was sacrificed?

 

[Taken]

It was a garden (park) that God planted for Adam to live in (Genesis 2:8,15). It wasn't where God lived. God would occasionally visit and walk with Adam and Eve, so only then were they in His presence. God drove them out of the garden because:

Genesis 3 (WEB):

(22) Yahweh God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever—”​

(23) Therefore Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.​

Nevertheless, God did not competely abandon mankind. The verses I quoted showed that some experienced the presence of God at times. You were suggesting that all men, including Jesus, have been seperated from God, but God has worked though many people and was certainly working through Jesus, and God was with him (Acts 10:38).

Yes, God drove them out... because not only did they not do what
God said not to do....
More importantly they did not Do what God said to Do.

And before they were driven out...they were Forgiven.

 

[ScottA]

How does God directing His son, Jesus, to sit at His right hand, imply that God was separating Himself from Jesus? They were to be side by side, not separated. You're blinded to the plain simple text by forcing upon it the man-made Trinity theory. You also seem to be implying that eventually everyone will be God. The Bible doesn't say that. It does say that some humans will be changed and become adopted sons of God, and considered (symbolically) as members of the body of the Messiah, but it doesn't say that everybody will become part of God.

It is by example, that is by creating man in their "image", that He showed just how Jesus was separated from the Father...as Eve was separated from Adam. That is the "image."

You say "side by side", but that is not what the scriptures say. They say rather that He "sat down on the right hand of God." However, "on" is not translated as "side by side", but as: of (366x), from (181x), out of (162x), by (55x), on (34x), with (25x), miscellaneous (98x). But I am not here discussing our differences on this matter, but stating the matter plainly according to the "image" that was not fully seen or understood--which was not and is not from me, but from God, just as it is written.

As for "everyone will be God", I am not implying anything, but again stating what is written--what Jesus prayed--plainly. That is, that the Father and He are One and that we are to be also...which is also elaborated as being "in Christ in God."

As for "sons of God", do not be confused by the language that says "I" and also "us" with regard to God. These things were only revealed as such, but were not to be fully known until we "see Him as He is" and "we shall be like Him." I can tell you of these things, but no one can see what they are not ready to see. Even though you may not see that "everyone will become part of God", the "image" given does show that he who was created in the image of God was first one who became two and separate, which Christ then prayed to reconcile. Meanwhile, there is no contradiction that we should disagree upon by pitting scripture against scripture. Though every word does not seem to reconcile, I was simply explaining how they do reconcile.

 

[ElieG12]

The Bible says what it says:

Dan. 7:13 I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

Another very different thing is that some people want to change the meaning of what it says, even changing the most natural meaning of the words used, to pervert the message and adapt it to their own beliefs.

 

[Bob Estey]

That is illogical. Your dad was not a father and simultaneously his own only begotten son. Your dad begat you, and you are his son, but your dad is not you.

Like my dad can be different things to different people, so can God. That seems logical to me.

 

[ElieG12]

The "sons" of God cannot be His "brothers" at the same time. That is obviously illogical:

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “(...) go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Are you a "brother" of the so called God-the Son?

 

[keithr]

Like I said: Semantics. It also says God drove them "out", which also serves the point I was making...that sin separated/separates us from God.

God drove them out of the garden to separate them from the tree of life - so that they would not be able to live forever. It was nothing to do with separating Adam and Eve from God.

 

[keithr]

You say "side by side", but that is not what the scriptures say. They say rather that He "sat down on the right hand or God." However, "on" is not translated as "side by side", but as: of (366x), from (181x), out of (162x), by (55x), on (34x), with (25x), miscellaneous (98x). But I am not here discussing our differences on this matter, but stating the matter plainly according to the "image" that was not fully seen or understood--which was not and is not from me, but from God, just as it is written.

Semantics. If you're at someone's side then you are side by side with them. Stephen said (Acts 7:56), "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!" I think most people would interpret that to mean that he was side by side with God.

As Paul describes it, Hebrews 12:2 (WEB):

(2) looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

If you are sat down a the right hand of a throne/seat, then you are beside that seat - side by side. End of English lesson. More to the point, Jesus said that he was going to be with his Father. Jesus sitting down beside/with His Father is not God separating Himself from Jesus as you claimed in post #64.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I don't know if this answers your first question, but here is how I look at it: God is simultaneously a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, like my dad was simultaneously a father, husband, son, lawyer, etc. As a Son, Jesus, he wanted to set an example for us. Therefore, he couldn't call himself God, because he didn't want us calling ourselves God. So, yes, he was speaking about himself.

As for your second question, I would say no.

Thanks Bob for your honest answer sir. Jesus intent was in fact to set an example for us, and eventually we all will be brought to his human stature, we too will be brought to perfection.

Why do you think Jesus was so deceptive in his teachings about God, and not revealing the truth about himself sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I gave you an answer, but you did not accept it, Robert.

Walter

I don't look at links most of the time Walter. I think I did click on yours, but it was over 40 minutes long.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Your question is lacking, I think.

Don't you mean to ask,

Who died on the cross, and rose again from the dead? Jesus? Or Micheal the Archangel, who portrayed Jesus until his death, then intermittently portrays Jesus to convince the disciples of a lie? (that Jesus had physically resurrected)

Is this more what you are talking about?

Much love!

That was not my question at all Marks. I think most think that Jesus went back to heaven as Jesus, rather than the being he was prior to coming. Tough subject, but like you mentioned Jesus was the one who was sacrificed.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What God Prepared was given.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body has thou prepared me:

Yes sir, exactly!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Where does that leave you? How would you now answer your own question of who was sacrificed?

I believe Jesus was sacrificed Scott, and that he went back to being the spirit being he was before, only having full knowledge of who he was during his time on earth. Jesus did not have knowledge of his previous life to any great extent anyway, until his baptism at 30 yrs of age, then the heavens were opened up to him, moving him to escape to the wilderness and fast for 40 days.

Is that the way you see it sir?

 

[Bob Estey]

Thanks Bob for your honest answer sir. Jesus intent was in fact to set an example for us, and eventually we all will be brought to his human stature, we too will be brought to perfection.

Why do you think Jesus was so deceptive in his teachings about God, and not revealing the truth about himself sir?

I don't think he was deceptive. It was his job to set an example for us, and that is what he did, it seems to me.

 

[marks]

That was not my question at all Marks. I think most think that Jesus went back to heaven as Jesus, rather than the being he was prior to coming. Tough subject, but like you mentioned Jesus was the one who was sacrificed.

Who is Jesus now?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

God drove them out of the garden to separate them from the tree of life - so that they would not be able to live forever. It was nothing to do with separating Adam and Eve from God.

Now the truth comes out.

By that statement, you show that you do not know that it is God who is the tree of life, and that He sent them out of the garden taking life from them--that they should die, unless they also take of Him and live.