Instruction in righteousness

[Eternally Grateful]

I'll say it a third time. I LIKE @Episkopos -I'm enjoying his book, without agreeing with much of it. In it he's telling the story of how he arrived.... as if he already has done so. He's arrived at conclusions, which are no more than beliefs-- things he's derived from scripture, from experience, from other things he's read and heard, all of which mash together to become a personal doctrine turned dogma that he now insists upon vigorously. You can tell it's become dogma by his defense of it. In his mind these things are no longer up for discussion, which is why this discussion here irritates him so.

I like him also. we are to love all.

 

[Mr E]

Our spiritual walk is spiritual.

Our physical walk is a reflection of that spiritual life.

It's an error as old as time, to take those spiritual things (concepts) we've seen and 'translate' them into physical elements (ideas). The spiritual principles are reality. The physical ideas are facsimile -- mere copies, made mostly in the dark, like shadows, a mere silhouette of that thing they depict. When one bases their understanding on an 'experience' they've had, they open a door to misunderstanding. When they further insist that others see things just as they do, and teach people to follow some new path that Christ himself never pointed toward-- that leads others off course. A degree off course over time takes you far from the mark. Don't let another's experience be a substitute for your personal relationship with the true teacher- The spirit of Truth.

 

[Keturah]

SHA BOOM SHA BOOM!

 

[Episkopos]

I don't doubt your experience of Holiness, But I disagree with you saying the incremental walk is in your own strength even if led by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:16​

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16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

There is more than one plane to the Christian walk. Paul is always speaking of the higher walk. He had already walked on the lower walk all his life. So how many walk with no regard to the flesh? How many walk in resurrection life?
So we have to see that the high calling that Paul was being conformed to was NOT as most modern believers think.

There is another incremental walk in the Spirit...but that's not one of improvement in behaviour. It is learning to REMAIN as you are IN Christ. So then that incremental walk is about NOT letting go of what you already have.

The Scriptures call all believers to do this, not just those who have been translated into a supernatural holiness experience.

Paul is simply stating a fact. Do you want to not sin? Just walk in the Spirit. Paul also talks about being LED by he Spirit. Those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God...just like the Israelites were in the wilderness.

Of course there's more to the Christian walk then what we often see around us. We're supposed to walk in miracles, healing, signs, and wonders and cast out demons. We're supposed to be known by our love. Power, love, and a sound mind. But don't be so sure that others aren't seeking, praying, and knocking for greater as well.

No matter how deep we go with the Lord, we still need the balance of the perspectives of other brothers and sisters in Christ.

You are speaking of what causes brothers and sisters to fulfill their calling. It's the LACK of the higher walk that results in the powerlessness we see in the church today. We just need to put one and one together.

Today, instead of the higher walk, we just are conditioned to make higher CLAIMS, but that have no substance in truth or reality.

Higher walk= higher performance as we read about in the Bible.

Lower walk= what we see all around us and us as well as long as we remain in the wilderness walk.

 

[Episkopos]

I'll say it a third time. I LIKE @Episkopos -I'm enjoying his book, without agreeing with much of it. In it he's telling the story of how he arrived.... as if he already has done so. He's arrived at conclusions, which are no more than beliefs-- things he's derived from scripture, from experience, from other things he's read and heard, all of which mash together to become a personal doctrine turned dogma that he now insists upon vigorously. You can tell it's become dogma by his defense of it. In his mind these things are no longer up for discussion, which is why this discussion here irritates him so.

Not at all. I'm open to a proper and scriptural challenge to what I say. I actually thrive on it. I love Bible studies. :)

What you are missing in your estimation is the level of my training in Christ. I can't say much here as so many are fragile in their way of seeing others than themselves. But what I say I say with conviction. I'm not school taught or book taught...but instructed as Jesus said would happen. God has personally shown me much of what I say here. Of course, that puts me outside the "norm", for internet users. But there's nothing really "normal" about the higher walk or the gospel according to power and eternal life.

Those who can hear what I'm saying will hear. Others will rail.

But I am patient enough to hear the same arguments over and over...ego arguments...of people who are positive that I have exactly the same relation to God that they do. A distant one. And that's not so. I didn't choose God...He chose me...a very ineffectual speaker and preacher. Why? Only God knows. But He does choose the foolish things....

All I invite people to do is hear the FULL message of the gospel...and seek God for themselves. Those whom the Spirit confirms what I say...what the Bible says...are not following me but God. I am just a vessel. This should be understood.

 

[Lizbeth]

Sorry, but we are in Adam as long as we are alive. We are on 'this' side of the Jordan all our days. You've created a false narrative where you imagine that you are no longer a part of humanity, suddenly on a higher path. That's not spirituality, it's imagination. If you think that your flesh was translated miraculously into this higher walk, into the Promised Land, into Zion and that those places are earthly, you've missed it every bit as badly as those Israelites. It's not magical.

That seed that @Lizbeth is talking about is not the life. The Life is IN the seed. The seed is a covering for it. And you are the seed that becomes a fruit bearing tree if and only if that tree matures and ONLY if that Life remains in you. The Life came from above and descended, you didn't ascend to it on some higher progressive path. It was given to you.

You've twisted things, and turned faith from an exercise program into some sort of miracle grow --Free samples! Buy the rest!

No. I don't buy it.

Recalling what Paul wrote.....'there remains therefore a rest for the people of God, let us not seem to have come short of it'. Promised Land was the rest from 'enemies' and slavery that God promised...land of rest. And the failure of the Israelites to cross that Jordan and enter was written for our admonition. Scripture says somewhere that God "has brought us out (of Egypt) in order to bring us IN." And it is by faith, yes. As it says (I think in Galations?), "having begun in the Spirit we are not now going to be made perfect by the flesh".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That sounds fleshy.

I thought you had put your flesh beneath your feet and you were now walking with @Episkopos on that higher path?

No one has harmed you here. It's just your feelings. It's only your ideas I'm rubbing against.

Anything spiritual feels and sounds wrong to you, of course.

 

[Mr E]

Those who can hear what I'm saying will hear. Others will rail.

But I am patient enough to hear the same arguments over and over...ego arguments...of people who are positive that I have exactly the same relation to God that they do. A distant one. And that's not so. I didn't choose God...He chose me...a very ineffectual speaker and preacher. Why? Only God knows. But He does choose the foolish things....

Your own assumptions need examination.

It's only by your own estimation that those who rail against the things you teach can't hear you.

We hear you. We just don't agree with you. Can you see the difference?

You presume to be on this higher level-- it's arrogant. It's hubris--

ego arguments...of people who are positive that I have exactly the same relation to God that they do.

You determine that it's the ego of others that is the problem, while giving yourself and your own ego a pass, even while it is on full display.

With a wave of your hand you dismiss the idea that others have the kind of relationship with God that you have? Did Christ himself ever talk like this? God may choose the foolish things, but He doesn't choose the proud, He humbles them.

 

[Mr E]

Anything spiritual feels and sounds wrong to you, of course.

Ah...... the peanut gallery.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah...... the peanut gallery.

Peanut gallery: a noisy and disorderly group of spectators.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Recalling what Paul wrote.....'there remains therefore a rest for the people of God, let us not seem to have come short of it'. Promised Land was the rest from 'enemies' and slavery that God promised...land of rest. And the failure of the Israelites to cross that Jordan and enter was written for our admonition. Scripture says somewhere that God "has brought us out (of Egypt) in order to bring us IN." And it is by faith, yes. As it says (I think in Galations?), "having begun in the Spirit we are not now going to be made perfect by the flesh".

I love this

we are GOING to be made perfect in the flesh.

As the good book says, by one sacrifice he has perfected FOREVER those being (in the process) sanctified.

And pauls encouragement to us. That he who began a good work WILL (not might) complete it..

satan wants to take this rest and this hope from us..

 

[Episkopos]

the problem with what Epi is saying is that he is saying those people will not be saved. Hence he is placing the onus of one saving themselves on how they act here on earth. basically putting a person back under the law.

To @Eternally Grateful

That's what you say...not me. To understand things like salvation, righteousness and holiness...you have to pay a lot more attention than what you are doing.

This is not about INHERITING salvation. The modern doctrines don't care about the power of Christ over sin. They just want a good outcome for a poor performance. They want a reward for having buried their talent.

No one can say who will INHERIT salvation. Read your bible. It says that God will have mercy and compassion on WHOEVER He wants...without your permission or comments.

What Paul is concerned with is the PRESENT salvation over sin of being IN Christ. In Him is no sin.

I was a prodigal son. I left the church due to some things my ex wife did and the churches response.. I would be one of those people epi would say was lost and not saved at that time. That is far from the truth. I was still my fathers child.. I can not unborn my self any more than I can give birth tomyself

You were dead. You need to actually read the story of the Prodigal son again. Once more with feeling this time! :)

It is God who made me born again through his sons blood I can not unbirth myself or remove the blood of his son.

Neither can we make a Jew no longer a Jew. But only a remnant will be accepted by God. We are in a race....run to win!

I can live like the people he speaks of. and I will suffer dealy through it. I will not only be chastened by God (And I know I have felt this, it is what brought me back to him) or I can prove I am illegitiment and not a true child. while there is no chastening..

but I can not lose salvation like Epi is trying to say. there are no multiple parts of being saved eternally. There are multiple levels of maturity after one is saved. and we will all be glorified. but there is not different aspects of salvation.

In your estimation. But you have no support whatsoever in the bible for your claims. We are not more precious to God than the Israelites in the wilderness. They were cut off...and we can also be cut off. Read Romans 11...once more with faith.

Epi has what we call a feel good works based gospel. It sounds good and it feels good. because it says those who return to sin or who commit certain sins can not be saved..

I never said that. That is your feelings at work. I think you can't differentiate between walking according to the flesh (and sinning) and walking according to the Spirit (and not sinning). Pretty basic stuff here.

salvation is not dependent on that. We need to be saved because we have missed the mark. and are cursed by the curse that jesus took on the cross. It is his death an our faith in that death and promise which saves us.

He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

he who does not believe is condemned already..

Not condemned with the world. But we will each be judged personally for what we have done with what we have been given. All who believe will be saved. But saved to what end? To be cast into perpetual outer darkness? To be among the nations that are saved? Or, to be ruling and reigning with Christ? You have to look deeper into this...beyond a binary religious opinion.

Epi and those like him would say Jesus said he who believes is not condemned, as long as they (insert whatever requirement they say must be met to keep saved)

...remain in Him. I am just stating what Paul is stating. But I say it with different word combinations so that you disagree. That means you are not understanding what Paul is saying.

thats a different gospel.. not from God. Jesus did not say belief plus. He said whoever ocmes to the point of belief will never die.

Is our faith in that promise, or in how good we are?

Whose faith..yours or that OF Christ? The different gospel is one where we pretend to be accepted of God whereby we are not. It is based on a supposed covering when we are actually naked and blind. It is a gospel of presumption rather than power. The true gospel is according to power. The power of the life to come.

We will be judged by our works...not what Jesus did. Check out what I say against the bible...with eyes wide open. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Your own assumptions need examination.

It's only by your own estimation that those who rail against the things you teach can't hear you.

We hear you. We just don't agree with you. Can you see the difference?

You presume to be on this higher level-- it's arrogant. It's hubris--

I don't assume anything. And I've said I am not presently in the perfect walk at this time. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. Do I have to say it in every post to not offend you ego Mr. E (go)?

You determine that it's the ego of others that is the problem, while giving yourself and your own ego a pass, even while it is on full display.

You are assuming things from your own experience. If you said the things I say...it would definitely be from your ego. But that's not the correct way to judge...from oneself. Judge not lest you be judged.

With a wave of your hand you dismiss the idea that others have the kind of relationship with God that you have? Did Christ himself ever talk like this? God may choose the foolish things, but He doesn't choose the proud, He humbles them.

I discern where people are at by the words and the fruit. Is there reaction in the flesh? That's the outer religious man who HATES the idea he is not fully accepted into the Beloved.

You would prefer I say nothing? Or that I say ..."I think the Bible says"...and other FAUX humility.... to please the flesh. I speak boldly as the oracle of God. Yes. Check out if that is right when you KNOW of what you speak.

Prove me wrong...from the scriptures. Not by opinion....but by the Spirit.

 

[Keturah]

@stunnedbygrace

Got an alert you had something to say to me but the system can't find it......

Come on let's be honest this devotion to a man is IDOLIZATION !

HE AINT GOD AND SINCE GOD CAME AS JESUS, HE AINT HIM EITHER.
...........CHOICES LEFT_________, FILL IN THE BLANK.

 

[Mr E]

I don't assume anything. And I've said I am not presently in the perfect walk at this time. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. Do I have to say it in every post to not offend you ego Mr. E (go)?


You are assuming things from your own experience. If you said the things I say...it would definitely be from your ego. But that's not the correct way to judge...from oneself. Judge not lest you be judged.


I discern where people are at by the words and the fruit. Is there reaction in the flesh? That's the outer religious man who HATES the idea he is not fully accepted into the Beloved.

You would prefer I say nothing? Or that I say ..."I think the Bible says"...and other FAUX humility.... to please the flesh. I speak boldly as the oracle of God. Yes. Check out if that is right when you KNOW of what you speak.

Prove me wrong...from the scriptures. Not by opinion....but by the Spirit.

lol..... okay.

So you put on a size 40 beau chapeau because it fits your head so nicely-- and call it a Prophet Hat, or a hat that is fitting for one with 'Apostolic authority' (though self-designated) and everyone who points out that the hat looks silly and that your head is much too big for your quite ordinary body--- those observers are the ones with the ego problem.

Got it.

 

[Episkopos]

@stunnedbygrace

Got an alert you had something to say to me but the system can't find it......

Come on let's be honest this devotion to a man is IDOLIZATION !

HE AINT GOD AND SINCE GOD CAME AS JESUS, HE AINT HIM EITHER.
...........CHOICES LEFT_________, FILL IN THE BLANK.

I have to disagree with you otherwise if I did agree, I might be accused of idolatry (or idolization or whatever)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To @Eternally Grateful

That's what you say...not me. To understand things like salvation, righteousness and holiness...you have to pay a lot more attention than what you are doing.

This is not about INHERITING salvation. The modern doctrines don't care about the power of Christ over sin. They just want a good outcome for a poor performance. They want a reward for having buried their talent.

No one can say who will INHERIT salvation. Read your bible. It says that God will have mercy and compassion on WHOEVER He wants...without your permission or comments.

What Paul is concerned with is the PRESENT salvation over sin of being IN Christ. In Him is no sin.

[/QUOTE]
This is what the bible says. the bible does say who will inherit salvation. Jesus himself tells us. The apostle John wrote his words down. Whoever believes will never die but has eternal life. And the apostle john says we can KNOW we have it.

this is the basis of our hope. not how good or how bad we are.. No one will earn salvation.

You were dead. You need to actually read the story of the Prodigal son again. Once more with feeling this time! :)


Neither can we make a Jew no longer a Jew. But only a remnant will be accepted by God. We are in a race....run to win!


In your estimation. But you have no support whatsoever in the bible for your claims. We are not more precious to God than the Israelites in the wilderness. They were cut off...and we can also be cut off. Read Romans 11...once more with faith.


I never said that. That is your feelings at work. I think you can't differentiate between walking according to the flesh (and sinning) and walking according to the Spirit (and not sinning). Pretty basic stuff here.



Not condemned with the world. But we will each be judged personally for what we have done with what we have been given. All who believe will be saved. But saved to what end? To be cast into perpetual outer darkness? To be among the nations that are saved? Or, to be ruling and reigning with Christ? You have to look deeper into this...beyond a binary religious opinion.


...remain in Him. I am just stating what Paul is stating. But I say it with different word combinations so that you disagree. That means you are not understanding what Paul is saying.



Whose faith..yours or that OF Christ? The different gospel is one where we pretend to be accepted of God whereby we are not. It is based on a supposed covering when we are actually naked and blind. It is a gospel of presumption rather than power. The true gospel is according to power. The power of the life to come.

We will be judged by our works...not what Jesus did. Check out what I say against the bible...with eyes wide open. :)

I was dead, But I was still my fathers son. His blood still flowed into me.

You think you can die again, and unborn yourself? You do not have this power. You are not even worthy to be alive.. I pray one day you realise this.. Because in this is the power of God.. this is the power that changes a person.. this is why John said whoever is born of God does not live in sin, and he can;t because he is changed. a new creature.

I trust this power.. do you? It does not appear you do.

 

[Episkopos]

lol..... okay.

So you put on a size 40 beau chapeau because it fits your head so nicely-- and call it a Prophet Hat, or a hat that is fitting for one with 'Apostolic authority' (though self-designated) and everyone who points out that the hat looks silly and that your head is much too big for your quite ordinary body--- those observers are the ones with the ego problem.

Got it.

LOL. I have no title or professional vapouring to hide behind. What do you know of me? It's incredible that you put so much faith in your own opinion. If that doesn't prove your motivation to everyone here.... I am outside the religious system with its artificial titles and support. I have come out of the camp to suffer the reproach of Christ...who called me to do so. You don't know what you're talking about. I pray the Lord is merciful to you...out of ignorance..not knowing what you allow the religious outer man to say...without discernment, fear, or respect for the way of God in Christ.

Why be so troubled Mr. Ego? Trust in the Lord for your own walk....don't rail against another who is trying to show you the way...more clearly.

 

[Mr E]

I have to disagree with you otherwise if I did agree, I might be accused of idolatry (or idolization or whatever)

Great idea..... back to the topic at hand. What you call understanding, I call gross error.

Here is something that few will understand. God builds His righteousness on OUR righteousness. An uncovered righteousness is filthy. But not one that is covered by God's righteousness.

Scripture teaches the opposite. Our righteousness counts for nothing, and He is our foundation...

 

[Keturah]

LOL. I have no title or professional vapouring to hide behind. What do you know of me? It's incredible that you put so much faith in your own opinion. If that doesn't prove your motivation to everyone here.... I am outside the religious system with its artificial titles and support. I have come out of the camp to suffer the reproach of Christ...who called me to do so. You don't know what you're talking about. I pray the Lord is merciful to you...out of ignorance..not knowing what you allow the religious outer man to say...without discernment, fear, or respect for the way of God in Christ.

Why be so troubled Mr. Ego? Trust in the Lord for your own walk....don't rail against another who is trying to show you the way...more clearly.

Wow just WOW.
Where's YOUR THRONE located ?

The unmitigated gall, the avarance of puffed upness,just

WOW.