The Transition from Time...to Eternity.

[Zao is life]

Yes, time allows one to be apart from God, while time itself is in God in whom there is "no shadow of turning" (no time). God is not in time--He created it--but time is rather in God, of which He has said, "is passing away", for in time there is darkness.

I agree.

1. How is time measured? By what unit do you measure it?
2. How is death - the loss of eternal life - the experience of man?
3. When was death conquered by man, and how?
4. How many years are there in eternal life?
5. How many years are there in the limited life-span of man?

I think the question of when time turns into eternity is invalid. The question is:

When did death become the experience of man, and why? The answer lies in John 1:4 and the difference between dwelling in the Word which said, "thou shalt surely die" (through faith in the Word) and dwelling in the word that said, "thou shalt not surely die".

After death - the loss of eternal life - became the experience of man, when did it become the experience of a man to enter into death and rise again from the dead, to die no more?

That's when death was conquered so that man could regain eternal life.

It has nothing to do with passing "from time to eternity" as though eternity did not exist from eternity, in Christ - but it has everything to do with passing from (eternal) death to (eternal) life.

PS: @Truth7t7 This is Christianity 101

 

[ScottA]

Jerusalem was a restored city in the Garden of Eden? The king was from Babylon who made the decree. Babylon was on earth prior to the Flood?

Daniel was also a son of Jacob. A son of Abraham. Is this pick and choose your favorite ancestor? How do we know Daniel was not a father of millions?

You are looking at it wrong. The words are spirit. The point is...we are all sons of Adam, and all are Daniel's people.

If you can receive it, the confirmation is in the time that was stated (an yet only translated in one of many ways) as "70 weeks", which spiritually discerned is the 7 days of all creation and all inclusive (x10) to include all people. Meaning, that it is not I who "pick and choose", but rather those who do not see the greater spiritual scope and meaning.

 

[ScottA]

I agree.

1. How is time measured? By what unit do you measure it?
2. How is death - the loss of eternal life - the experience of man?
3. When was death conquered by man, and how?
4. How many years are there in eternal life?
5. How many years are there in the limited life-span of man?

I think the question of when time turns into eternity is invalid. The question is:

When did death become the experience of man, and why? The answer lies in John 1:4 and the difference between dwelling in the Word which said, "thou shalt surely die" (through faith in the Word) and dwelling in the word that said, "thou shalt not surely die".

After death - the loss of eternal life - became the experience of man, when did it become the experience of a man to enter into death and rise again from the dead, to die no more?

That's when death was conquered so that man could regain eternal life.

It has nothing to do with passing "from time to eternity" as though eternity did not exist from eternity, in Christ - but it has everything to do with passing from (eternal) death to (eternal) life.

PS: @Truth7t7 This is Christianity 101

You have made many good points.

However, the point of my Original Post and this thread, was specifically the transition that awaits all who are include in Adam and Eve's being sent out of the garden and into this world of time which we all then pass away from.

Yes, it is as you say, eternity always exists and the ramifications are much larger than this specific transition. But now is the time for the children of God to come to the knowledge of that transition back through the hourglass (as it were), and to know that time and times have merely been and are the vehicle by which God has revealed "here a little, there a little"..."but each one in his own order", all of which was since "before the foundation of the world."

So, yes, just as the earth would seem to be fixed place of solid ground where our feet do not perceive all that is occurring, and yet in reality is whirling through space, so too is each person like a speck of dust first entering time, then passing from it. And all the while eternity has been just out of our own reach beyond the glass, having no beginning and no end.

 

[Zao is life]

You have made many good points.

However, the point of my Original Post and this thread, was specifically the transition that awaits all who are include in Adam and Eve's being sent out of the garden and into this world of time which we all then pass away from.

Yes, it is as you say, eternity always exists and the ramifications are much larger than this specific transition. But now is the time for the children of God to come to the knowledge of that transition back through the hourglass (as it were), and to know that time and times have merely been and are the vehicle by which God has revealed "here a little, there a little"..."but each one in his own order", all of which was since "before the foundation of the world."

So, yes, just as the earth would seem to be fixed place of solid ground where our feet do not perceive all that is occurring, and yet in reality is whirling through space, so too is each person like a speck of dust first entering time, then passing from it. And all the while eternity has been just out of our own reach beyond the glass, having no beginning and no end.

Yes I think I understand what you mean. Time can only take place in the creation, because time can only be measured in terms of the cycles of birth, life and death in creation. How old is a person? How old is a star or a galaxy? It can only be measured if the person does not live forever.

So time is a bubble inside a big balloon called eternity, and I believe there is a lot more to be understood by the statement in Romans 8:21 than meets the eye:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was not willingly subjected to vanity, but because of Him who subjected it on hope
21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it?
25 But if we hope for that which we do not see, then we wait for it with patience.

You see, God created a body for Adam. He isn't just a soul.

The biblical concept of eternal life is inextricably intertwined with being alive in a body. Below is a list of the New Testament scriptures using the Greek word záō (alive). None of them are in reference to someone who has died / fallen asleep / is not alive, i.e not living in his body. Not one:

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

That's how we're born when we come into the world: alive in a body, (because that's how Adam was created) - but we will also die, our bodies will decay, and we would have remained eternally dead to God, the source of all life, unless we are born of the Spirit of God from above also.

And it's because Adam was created with a body that the resurrection is an integral part of the gospel.

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for The Resurrection is ho anástasis: ("the resurrection"). Without fail, each and every time anástasis is used in the New Testament, it's referring to the bodily resurrection:

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

All of the following verses below use one or more of the following words, and all are speaking about the bodily resurrection:

égersis; anístēmi; egeírō:

|| Matthew 9:25; Matthew 10:8; Matthew 11:5; Matthew 14:2; Matthew 17:9; Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 26:32; Matthew 27:52-53 & 63-64; Matthew 28:6-7; Mark 6:14 & 16; Mark 12:26; Mark 14:28; Mark 16:6 & 14; Luke 7:14; Luke 7:22; Luke 8:54; Luke 9:7 & 22; Luke 14:13-14; Luke 20:37; Luke 24:6; Luke 24:34; John 2:19-21; John 5:21; John 5:28-29; John 6:39, 40 & 44; John 11:23-35; John 12:1, 9 & 17; John 21:14; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:24, 31-32; Acts 3:15 & 26; Acts 4:1-2, 10 & 33; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30 & 33-37; Acts 17:18 & 31-32; Acts 23:6-8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:8; Romans 1:4; Romans 4:23-25; Romans 6:4-5; Romans 6:9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:11; Romans 8:34; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 12-23, 35-36, 42-45, 50-57; 2 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Ephesians 2:5-6; Ephesians 5:14; Philippians 3:10-11; Colossians 2:12-13; Colossians 3:1 (Compare with Romans 6:5); 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16; 2 Timothy 2:8 & 18; Hebrews 6:1-2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Peter 3:18 & 21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

Not one New Testament verse employing any of the above listed words associated with The Resurrection (ansastis) is not talking about the bodily resurrection. Not one.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 says,

"And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins. Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost."

Again, speaking of those who fell asleep in Christ, Paul continues,

"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept. For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:19-22).

Then he says,

"But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming." (1 Corinthians 15:19-23).

So eternal life (in eternity) is inextricably linked to being alive forever in a body that does not die.

This is the gospel. and for the sake of @Truth7t7 , this is Christianity 101.

So even though time is linked to the creation and to the cycles of birth, life and death in the creation, and even though time is a bubble inside a balloon called eternity, any discussion about eternity is meaningless unless it involves the reality of death and the resurrection from death, which Christ, the last Adam, bought for man, shedding His own blood and entering into death Himself for us, and then rising again from the dead bodily, and is alive (zao) in a body forevermore.

So the answer to your OP about "the transition from the times of this world to eternity" is that it occurred when Jesus rose from the dead, and without this gospel of the resurrection of Christ from the dead any discussion about eternity is meaningless.

 

[rwb]

It has nothing to do with lashing out. I am simply stating a proven fact (cited the scripture to you).

Time does not have an end. This present world has an end. There is a difference.

Eternity is simply time continued for ever.

Instead of saying time will continue forever in eternity, I would say life continues forever, and that means without time.

 

[ScottA]

Yes I think I understand what you mean. Time can only take place in the creation, because time can only be measured in terms of the cycles of birth, life and death in creation. How old is a person? How old is a star or a galaxy? It can only be measured if the person does not live forever.

So time is a bubble inside a big balloon called eternity, and I believe there is a lot more to be understood by the statement in Romans 8:21 than meets the eye:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was not willingly subjected to vanity, but because of Him who subjected it on hope
21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, awaiting adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope; for what anyone sees, why does he also hope for it?
25 But if we hope for that which we do not see, then we wait for it with patience.

You see, God created a body for Adam. He isn't just a soul.

The biblical concept of eternal life is inextricably intertwined with being alive in a body. Below is a list of the New Testament scriptures using the Greek word záō (alive). None of them are in reference to someone who has died / fallen asleep / is not alive, i.e not living in his body. Not one:

|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4. ||

That's how we're born when we come into the world: alive in a body, (because that's how Adam was created) - but we will also die, our bodies will decay, and we would have remained eternally dead to God, the source of all life, unless we are born of the Spirit of God from above also.

And it's because Adam was created with a body that the resurrection is an integral part of the gospel.

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for The Resurrection is ho anástasis: ("the resurrection"). Without fail, each and every time anástasis is used in the New Testament, it's referring to the bodily resurrection:

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

All of the following verses below use one or more of the following words, and all are speaking about the bodily resurrection:

égersis; anístēmi; egeírō:

|| Matthew 9:25; Matthew 10:8; Matthew 11:5; Matthew 14:2; Matthew 17:9; Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 26:32; Matthew 27:52-53 & 63-64; Matthew 28:6-7; Mark 6:14 & 16; Mark 12:26; Mark 14:28; Mark 16:6 & 14; Luke 7:14; Luke 7:22; Luke 8:54; Luke 9:7 & 22; Luke 14:13-14; Luke 20:37; Luke 24:6; Luke 24:34; John 2:19-21; John 5:21; John 5:28-29; John 6:39, 40 & 44; John 11:23-35; John 12:1, 9 & 17; John 21:14; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:24, 31-32; Acts 3:15 & 26; Acts 4:1-2, 10 & 33; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30 & 33-37; Acts 17:18 & 31-32; Acts 23:6-8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:8; Romans 1:4; Romans 4:23-25; Romans 6:4-5; Romans 6:9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:11; Romans 8:34; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 12-23, 35-36, 42-45, 50-57; 2 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Ephesians 2:5-6; Ephesians 5:14; Philippians 3:10-11; Colossians 2:12-13; Colossians 3:1 (Compare with Romans 6:5); 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16; 2 Timothy 2:8 & 18; Hebrews 6:1-2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Peter 3:18 & 21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

Not one New Testament verse employing any of the above listed words associated with The Resurrection (ansastis) is not talking about the bodily resurrection. Not one.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 says,

"And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins. Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost."

Again, speaking of those who fell asleep in Christ, Paul continues,

"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept. For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Corinthians 15:19-22).

Then he says,

"But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming." (1 Corinthians 15:19-23).

So eternal life (in eternity) is inextricably linked to being alive forever in a body that does not die.

This is the gospel. and for the sake of @Truth7t7 , this is Christianity 101.

So even though time is linked to the creation and to the cycles of birth, life and death in the creation, and even though time is a bubble inside a balloon called eternity, any discussion about eternity is meaningless unless it involves the reality of death and the resurrection from death, which Christ, the last Adam, bought for man, shedding His own blood and entering into death Himself for us, and then rising again from the dead bodily, and is alive (zao) in a body forevermore.

So the answer to your OP about "the transition from the times of this world to eternity" is that it occurred when Jesus rose from the dead, and without this gospel of the resurrection of Christ from the dead any discussion about eternity is meaningless.

True.

However, there are many (and I am not sure you have stated it either way) who believe "bodily resurrection" means many bodies, as opposed to the One body of Christ which includes all who are "in Him." Thus, just as all died with the death of one man having one body which then by birth unfolded from Adam to include all who are born in the flesh (each experiencing death as he experienced it), so too the many who are [again] by birth included "in the body of Christ" are again refolded "into" the One.

Such is the gospel without conjecture favoring the flesh.

The problem that many have with this biblical truth of refolding what was first unfolded, is that we have experienced it in our own bodies and many do not want to give them up. Which is to say, many cling to the flesh. But did Christ cling to His body, or did He lay it down, literally giving His body to become the Church that join Him making up One new body? For this reason Jesus told Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." Therefore, it should be clear, although many believe it to be true, that each individual is not reconstituted in their own individual body, for Paul stated, it is "not that body." Such a doctrine would be against the Oneness that Christ prayed for us to be included in.

However, having said all that--is God not capable of creating individual bodies for many? Certainly He is! But let us not divide what God has joined together...before we are all first joined together.

 

[robert derrick]

Which is the transition from the times of this world to eternity.

Begins with death of the body, or for those alive at His coming again, with instant change to immortal bodies.

In this life, we can be established in the present truth, that is never-changing nor ending, but until the first bodily resurrection of the saints, we are still bound to this time on earth.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, and so the end of sinning with the flesh, is also come with Him in the heart, but the end of overcoming sinning only comes with the death of the body.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Most have not realized that "rightly dividing the word of truth" means dividing those passages of scripture that speak of the times of this world, from those that speak rather of the kingdom (not of this world) and eternity...

True, that is part of it. There is a difference between Christ's kingdom come on earth, and His everlasting kingdom in heaven and in our hearts.

But rightly dividing the word of truth begins with rightly dividing between what is written in Scripture, vs what is not, but is only imagination in the minds of men.

and that the transition between the two if visualized would appear like an image of warp drive time travel. But being creatures of time and this world, the very idea of inserting such a transition into the many biblical discussion here, it is completely rejected. Yet, does that very transition not await us all?

So long as something is taught by Scripture, then there's no problem, but heresies like having already received our immortal bodies in heaven, so that the resurrection is past, was rebuked by Paul long ago, as overthrowing the faith of some.

How then are any of these discussions at all relevant to God--if that eternal part that comes is rejected?

The eternal one is come in the flesh, and His everlasting kingdom is open to them that believe and obey Him.

When He comes again, then also will come eternity for His saints being first resurrected from the dead, to meet Him in the air.

In the meantime, if anyone thinks for one moment, that their souls are now forever in eternity of heaven, while their bodies remain alive on earth, then they are deeply delusional.

It's akin to New Age theology.

Until the death of the body, we will always remain responsible to God's judgment for what deeds we do in our bodies.

Is the word of God only to be a closed circuit and separate from God

That doesn't make sense, because it's not possible for God to be separated from His Word.

Separated from them corrupting His word, yes, but not from His word itself.

as the world is separate?

True, the world of sinning is separate from God, and the sons of God are still separated by mortal flesh from eternity with God.

On the contrary--it is not closed, but open, and yet closed by many among the church, many here.

True, eternity is only closed to those still in natural flesh on earth, but the kingdom of God is now open for any that repent and believe His gospel. The dead in Christ are open to both, and await their resurrected bodies.

To the contrary--of what is otherwise witnessed here daily, spiritualizing everything should not be a subject of ridicule and looked down upon, but should be considered the very thing that has been promised and waited for.

All Scripture is spiritual and inspired of the Spirit of God.

But there is nothing spiritual about anything natural, including flesh, grass, and rocks.

And when Scripture is separated from real events in nature, to be spiritualized only as symbols, then the Bible is made just another book of cunningly devised fables of men.

And God being spirit, such things should not be passed off as "mystic", or "gnostic", etc. in name-calling as if derogatory--

True. All Scripture is spiritual in nature, being inspired by God. Mysticism, gnosticism, fable making, etc.. is just changing the truth of Scripture, pertaining to real time and events, into a lie.

Nonetheless, the track record is rather to stone the prophets and kill those who are sent.

The track record of them that believe not the Scripture, nor do the word, and silence them preaching and doing the truth. Which began with Cain fist 'talking' with Abel, and then killing him for not agreeing.

Is it not "on topic" to speak of the transition from time to eternity at every turn?

True. That is why Jesus warns us to watch in doing good and righteousness, lest our end come unguarded, and we are found naked without Him.

When spirituality is separated from works, our faith is dead, being alone.

And them with eternal life of Christ, enter forever into that eternity with Him, only after the end of our natural time on this earth.

Only those obeying Him unto the end, is given eternal salvation with Him forever.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

 

[robert derrick]

How does a creation exist without time?

Eternity already existed prior to current creation. Why is there the claim God will create Eternity in the future?

True. By definition, eternity is not created.

There is no naturally created thing, that is ever perfect. There will still be dead trees falling in woods on the new earth.

 

[robert derrick]

The word "new" is correct within the limited context of those who were lost and perishing (as if no longer existing in God). But otherwise, no, nothing new, but rather "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

This also shows how all things created by God are eternal and never become uncreated by God. The old dissolved heaven and earth will flee from His face, and be only out of sight and mind. This world will not becoming nothing again.

Only God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His new heaven and earth will be eternal, but as with all things natural, it will change with the seasons.

 

[robert derrick]

We live in creation. Only God lives in eternity. You are claiming we literally become God.

You are more correct, than others may think.

This metaphysical play on Scripture is just a way of saying, that we shall become as gods in our own right with God.

It's the vain hope of all sinners since Adam and Eve, that think they can have eternal life and peace as gods forever, without any need to doing righteousness of God.

Jesus Christ coming in the flesh, and believing that fact, does not mean we are now become as gods, forever already dwelling with God, no matter what we do in this life, so that this existence no more really matters for eternity.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

This stuff is akin to them that believe all the world's sins are already forever forgiven, since Jesus died on the cross. And all men need to do is 'realize' that, and so 'enter into that eternity' in their minds, while still sinning with the flesh.

"But don't misunderstand, it is not that "time ceases to exist", but rather that it never really did exist"

And so, here we have this mystic philosophy 101, posing for spirituality, that is detached from reality of this life: this life and world exists, as much as the heaven or hell we go to afterward, by how we choose to live it.

Saying this time does not really exist, is just a metaphysical way of saying, that what we do in our bodies does not really matter. Period.

 

[robert derrick]

and this has all been God walking us through the pages of a book (as it were) of revealing the details--"

And this is just the predestinators' way of saying we have no say in the matter.

We are not simply sitting in the driving seat of cars, that are driving themselves according to a preprogramed route by God.

We are waiting in patience and well-doing for Jesus to appear. We are not just waiting around for it all to end, with a predestinated outcome apart from our own making.

We still choose this day whom we will serve.

Just because God the Word has already seen us do all things from beginning to end, so that He can write it in a book from the beginning, does not mean He writes the book first for us to do a certain way, and then sees us doing what we were fated to do by His will.

He foresees what we do, by watching us do it, not by fating us to do it.

There is no fate in Scripture, but only faith.

If God fated every man's end from the beginning, then no man would ever sin, How do we know this?

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

The only way God chooses our life for us, is when by faith we choose to obey Him and freely do His will.

And that is the existence now, that matters for all of eternity for us.

 

[quietthinker]

I find myself referring to this in many different threads where it is mostly overlooked as if not being the topic. Perhaps it's time for it to be its own topic--or rightly a part of every topic! Which is the transition from the times of this world to eternity.

Most have not realized that "rightly dividing the word of truth" means dividing those passages of scripture that speak of the times of this world, from those that speak rather of the kingdom (not of this world) and eternity...and that the transition between the two if visualized would appear like an image of warp drive time travel. But being creatures of time and this world, the very idea of inserting such a transition into the many biblical discussion here, it is completely rejected. Yet, does that very transition not await us all?

How then are any of these discussions at all relevant to God--if that eternal part that comes is rejected? Is the word of God only to be a closed circuit and separate from God as the world is separate?

On the contrary--it is not closed, but open, and yet closed by many among the church, many here.

To the contrary--of what is otherwise witnessed here daily, spiritualizing everything should not be a subject of ridicule and looked down upon, but should be considered the very thing that has been promised and waited for. And God being spirit, such things should not be passed off as "mystic", or "gnostic", etc. in name-calling as if derogatory--but as music from heaven to the ears of all who are even wanting to hear and see what the Spirit brings.

Nonetheless, the track record is rather to stone the prophets and kill those who are sent.

Is it not "on topic" to speak of the transition from time to eternity at every turn?

Surely, it should be.

I deem eternity the continuation of time....time that does not end.

 

[ScottA]

The eternal one is come in the flesh, and His everlasting kingdom is open to them that believe and obey Him.

When He comes again, then also will come eternity for His saints being first resurrected from the dead, to meet Him in the air.

In the meantime, if anyone thinks for one moment, that their souls are now forever in eternity of heaven, while their bodies remain alive on earth, then they are deeply delusional.

It's akin to New Age theology.

Until the death of the body, we will always remain responsible to God's judgment for what deeds we do in our bodies.

I am not going to address all that you have claimed--we've been down that road. But this specifically should be clarified for those who may be reading along, for what you write here is greatly in error.

It is written (Jesus speaking) that "the kingdom of God is within you." "Is"--not will be, but "is within you."​

​

It is also written that “The kingdom of God does not come with observation." and "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Again, "is", not "until the death of the body" as you say.​

​

It is also written, "Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him." Again saying those who have died to the flesh and are born [again] to God by His spirit "have" put on the new man who "is" renewed.​

​

But those who have not experience this rebirth and the passing "from death to life"--wouldn't know this, unless they hear or read of it and believe. As it is also written, "We know that we have passed from death to life."​

​

All of which began 2,000+ years ago and continues "but each one in his own order" until the end of time.

 

[ScottA]

I deem eternity the continuation of time....time that does not end.

That would be a contradiction in terms...as time was created, and eternity was not.

 

[Zao is life]

True.

However, there are many (and I am not sure you have stated it either way) who believe "bodily resurrection" means many bodies, as opposed to the One body of Christ which includes all who are "in Him." Thus, just as all died with the death of one man having one body which then by birth unfolded from Adam to include all who are born in the flesh (each experiencing death as he experienced it), so too the many who are [again] by birth included "in the body of Christ" are again refolded "into" the One.

Such is the gospel without conjecture favoring the flesh.

The problem that many have with this biblical truth of refolding what was first unfolded, is that we have experienced it in our own bodies and many do not want to give them up. Which is to say, many cling to the flesh. But did Christ cling to His body, or did He lay it down, literally giving His body to become the Church that join Him making up One new body? For this reason Jesus told Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." Therefore, it should be clear, although many believe it to be true, that each individual is not reconstituted in their own individual body, for Paul stated, it is "not that body." Such a doctrine would be against the Oneness that Christ prayed for us to be included in.

However, having said all that--is God not capable of creating individual bodies for many? Certainly He is! But let us not divide what God has joined together...before we are all first joined together.

We're not dividing anything by understanding that each individual in Christ will be individually bodily resurrected with a spiritual body which will not be the same flesh and blood body that dies - the unity of the many is in the Spirit, not in the body, and the flaw in your assertion (besides the fact that it flies against Christian doctrine because it negates the scriptural revelation), is that Adam's descendants did not have one body, we are many (many billions). So the last Adam's children are many bodies and will be resurrected each with his own spiritual body.

The Unity of the Spirit

"For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many." 1 Corinthians 12:13-14

"There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all." Ephesians 4:4-6

"Through Him (Jesus) we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
and are built upon the foundation of the apostles (plural) and prophets (plural), Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit." Ephesians 2:18-22

The living stones that make up the temple - whether this present one on earth, or the new one after all have been bodily resurrected - are many living stones.

It seems to me that you are taking the illustrations of the spiritual realities (one Spirit, one body of Christ) that God gives us in His scriptures and changing them to mean something they do not, despite the scriptures which negate your position.

Ask God to give you the understanding of what the Bible means and leave it up to Him, knowing that the correct understanding the things you have spoken about in the above posts comes from Him. Your imagination is running wild with you.

 

[robert derrick]

I am not going to address all that you have claimed--we've been down that road. But this specifically should be clarified for those who may be reading along, for what you write here is greatly in error.

It is written (Jesus speaking) that "the kingdom of God is within you." "Is"--not will be, but "is within you."​

True. Just as quoted from Scripture.

​

It is also written that “The kingdom of God does not come with observation." and "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Again, "is",​

True.

not "until the death of the body" as you say.​

You're record is not good about stating other peoples' positions, once again.

You must have quotes.

Your lie is meant to imply no man can be saved and have eternal life, until the body dies.

The truth is no man with enteral life in the soul can be glorified, until the resurrection of the body.

Your teaching of already somehow being glorified with your immortal body in heaven and are now like God in heaven, while your mortal body remains on earth, is departure from Scripture and reality.

Paul condemns teaching the resurrection is past, that overthrows the faith of some, who want to think what they do in this life, has no more anything to do with the next.

Unless we endure unto the end of this body, we can still be separated from the life in Christ Jesus, by sinning against Him with our spirit and flesh.

Just like any other sinner on earth in need of forgiveness of their past sins.

​

It is also written, "Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him." Again saying those who have died to the flesh and are born [again] to God by His spirit "have" put on the new man who "is" renewed.​

True. Good quote and teaching.

​

But those who have not experience this rebirth and the passing "from death to life"--wouldn't know this,​

Of course, not being forgiven of all past sinning, born again and becoming sons of God with power to go and sin no more with the spirit nor the flesh.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

unless they hear or read of it and believe. As it is also written, "We know that we have passed from death to life."​

True, and we know we have eternal life in the Spirit, and will be eternally saved in the resurrected immortal body, if we remain walking in the Spirit, and not after the works of the flesh, unto the end of this life on earth.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.

​

All of which began 2,000+ years ago and continues "but each one in his own order" until the end of time.

True. No one was ever born again, until Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

And, if we continue with Him in the flesh, then His life continues with us in the Spirit.

If we forsake Him to sin against us, He forsakes us to take away His Spirit, Light, and fellowship from us.

But, God is merciful, so that even if a Christian does sin, all is not lost. We can still be drawn of God unto repentance again, and be forgiven by Jesus and cleansed of all sinning.

 

[robert derrick]

We're not dividing anything by understanding that each individual in Christ will be individually bodily resurrected with a spiritual body which will not be the same flesh and blood body that dies - the unity of the many is in the Spirit, not in the body, and the flaw in your assertion (besides the fact that it flies against Christian doctrine because it negates the scriptural revelation), is that Adam's descendants did not have one body, we are many (many billions). So the last Adam's children are many bodies and will be resurrected each with his own spiritual body.

Well said.

If I hear about how we're all Adam again, I'll throw up.

As they say, I don't know him from Adam, and vice a versa.

 

[ScottA]

We're not dividing anything by understanding that each individual in Christ will be individually bodily resurrected with a spiritual body which will not be the same flesh and blood body that dies - the unity of the many is in the Spirit, not in the body, and the flaw in your assertion (besides the fact that it flies against Christian doctrine because it negates the scriptural revelation), is that Adam's descendants did not have one body, we are many (many billions). So the last Adam's children are many bodies and will be resurrected each with his own spiritual body.

The Unity of the Spirit

"For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many." 1 Corinthians 12:13-14

"There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all." Ephesians 4:4-6

"Through Him (Jesus) we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
and are built upon the foundation of the apostles (plural) and prophets (plural), Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit." Ephesians 2:18-22

The living stones that make up the temple - whether this present one on earth, or the new one after all have been bodily resurrected - are many living stones.

It seems to me that you are taking the illustrations of the spiritual realities (one Spirit, one body of Christ) that God gives us in His scriptures and changing them to mean something they do not, despite the scriptures which negate your position.

Ask God to give you the understanding of what the Bible means and leave it up to Him, knowing that the correct understanding the things you have spoken about in the above posts comes from Him. Your imagination is running wild with you.

I am not challenging traditional Christian doctrine, but explaining what has not been fully understood of the scriptures. I am not debating.

You have stated what is obvious among the multitudes, but I have stated what is more importantly higher and true according to Him whose prayer it is that all should be One, as God is One.

You can say or rather explain it away, by saying the Oneness is "in spirit." --Of course it is--"God is spirit!" But you have not explained just what it is to be "in Him." But I have explained, that the one man Adam became "of" him--of his loins, and of his "kind" many in the unfolding revelation of all things. But what is the Revelation of it all? I am telling you just what is written of the end--that the revelation in the form you have referred to as being that of many, is rather "the revelation of Jesus Christ" who is One.

But this matter is not according to the ways of this world--just as Jesus clarified of marriage, saying, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." So, yes, "in spirit", even many, but One in a way that is not defined comparative to men...except as with Adam and Eve who were literally one in Adam being one man, but then became two, only to become of his kind One in Christ who is greater than Adam.

 

[ScottA]

True. Just as quoted from Scripture.


True.


You're record is not good about stating other peoples' positions, once again.

You must have quotes.

Your lie is meant to imply no man can be saved and have eternal life, until the body dies.

The truth is no man with enteral life in the soul can be glorified, until the resurrection of the body.

Your teaching of already somehow being glorified with your immortal body in heaven and are now like God in heaven, while your mortal body remains on earth, is departure from Scripture and reality.

Paul condemns teaching the resurrection is past, that overthrows the faith of some, who want to think what they do in this life, has no more anything to do with the next.

Unless we endure unto the end of this body, we can still be separated from the life in Christ Jesus, by sinning against Him with our spirit and flesh.

Just like any other sinner on earth in need of forgiveness of their past sins.

True. Good quote and teaching.


Of course, not being forgiven of all past sinning, born again and becoming sons of God with power to go and sin no more with the spirit nor the flesh.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

True, and we know we have eternal life in the Spirit, and will be eternally saved in the resurrected immortal body, if we remain walking in the Spirit, and not after the works of the flesh, unto the end of this life on earth.

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is touching him not.


True. No one was ever born again, until Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

And, if we continue with Him in the flesh, then His life continues with us in the Spirit.

If we forsake Him to sin against us, He forsakes us to take away His Spirit, Light, and fellowship from us.

But, God is merciful, so that even if a Christian does sin, all is not lost. We can still be drawn of God unto repentance again, and be forgiven by Jesus and cleansed of all sinning.

I quoted you with quotation marks, and you call me a liar for not using quotes. Then you yourself do the very thing you accuse me of.

 

[bbyrd009]

fwiw our translation “eternity” really comes from “aion: a space of time, an age” whereas they had a term for “forever,” namely aidios

Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- Age, eternity, world, forever, everlasting

biblehub.com

Strong's Greek: 126. ἀΐδιος (aidios) -- Eternal, everlasting

biblehub.com

nobody wants to talk about that tho lol