Two sets of a thousand years.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,310
899
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Well if REv. 19 was the entire sum of last days teaching you would be correct. but as it is but a thimbleful of the ocean of eschatological teaching the bible has, your point is as inane as it is irrelevant.

How so I just posted what the bible says. Rev 16 mentions the term Armageddon and rev 19 doesn't.

Babylon the great is destroyed in revelation 16 by the beast as Revelation 17:16-17 confirms who destroys her and revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jeus. Thats exactually what the bible says so hows is that insane?

Again I am not being difficult or cocky i'm just showing what the bible says.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,762
3,787
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How so I just posted what the bible says. Rev 16 mentions the term Armageddon and rev 19 doesn't.

Babylon the great is destroyed in revelation 16 by the beast as Revelation 17:16-17 confirms who destroys her and revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jeus. Thats exactually what the bible says so hows is that insane?

Again I am not being difficult or cocky i'm just showing what the bible says.
But we know ou are showing what the bible says to denounce other things the bible says.

Here is you:

Yet Revelation 19 it says nothing of the antichrist or Armageddon or even Jesus and his armies coming down to the earth. Do you see that events always need to be added to the scriptures to prove the futurist view?

The battle in rev 16 is the battle at Armageddon which is a different battle than the one in rev 19 as rev 19 says nothing about Armageddon. They are different battles with different combattons and different outcomes.

In rev 16 we have the defeat of Babylon the great by the beast and Jesus isn't mentioned. In rev 19 it is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jesus and babylon the great isn't mentioned.

The beast and the antichrist are not the same only John mentions the antichrist in his epistles and he says that it is more than one a spirit and was present in John's day.

John doesn't mention the antichrist in revelation for a reason as the beast and the antichrist are described differently by John and John also give them a different purpose.

I am saying exactly when the scriptures say

You are selectively citing narrow passages and then using them to accuse me of adding to Scripture what is already there in other passages.

And JOhn does mention the antichrist. He calls him the beast for that is who he is! The AC has many names in Scripture and Scripture passages show many different purposes the AC accomplishes.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,053
1,231
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How so I just posted what the bible says. Rev 16 mentions the term Armageddon and rev 19 doesn't.

Babylon the great is destroyed in revelation 16 by the beast as Revelation 17:16-17 confirms who destroys her and revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jeus. Thats exactually what the bible says so hows is that insane?

Again I am not being difficult or cocky i'm just showing what the bible says.


No, you are showing what you believe in. Example: Rev 16 does not show Babylon being destroyed but you always make that false claim. I'll prove that using the scriptures.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Babylon is mentioned one time and it isn't yet her destruction but she came in remembrance for God to give her the cup of wrath. That's punishment not destruction. Her destruction comes from the ten horns when they burn her (Rev 17:16), not from God's cup of wrath.

When you say, "i'm just showing what the bible says", you aren't being truthful. I (ewq) am showing what the bible says, and it does not say what you say it says. You think I'm being tough on you and I am, because you are teaching the bible, but not teaching correctly or accurately and all teachers need to be thoroughly checked and challenged like this.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,310
899
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
But we know ou are showing what the bible says to denounce other things the bible says.

Here is you:

Yet Revelation 19 it says nothing of the antichrist or Armageddon or even Jesus and his armies coming down to the earth. Do you see that events always need to be added to the scriptures to prove the futurist view?

The battle in rev 16 is the battle at Armageddon which is a different battle than the one in rev 19 as rev 19 says nothing about Armageddon. They are different battles with different combattons and different outcomes.

In rev 16 we have the defeat of Babylon the great by the beast and Jesus isn't mentioned. In rev 19 it is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jesus and babylon the great isn't mentioned.

The beast and the antichrist are not the same only John mentions the antichrist in his epistles and he says that it is more than one a spirit and was present in John's day.

John doesn't mention the antichrist in revelation for a reason as the beast and the antichrist are described differently by John and John also give them a different purpose.

I am saying exactly when the scriptures say

You are selectively citing narrow passages and then using them to accuse me of adding to Scripture what is already there in other passages.

And JOhn does mention the antichrist. He calls him the beast for that is who he is! The AC has many names in Scripture and Scripture passages show many different purposes the AC accomplishes.

No I'm showing what the bible actually says to get the proper interpretation because we all know that the bible doesn't contradict itself.

Regardless after posting what the bible actually says would you now agree that they are two separate events in chapters 16 & 19?

John is the only person the in bible to mention the term antichrist and this very same John who wrote revelation. Thus he named them differently for a reason. The reason is because he describes them differently and shows them having a different purpose. The description of the antichrist of Johns epistles is nothing like Johns description of the sea beast of revelation.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,762
3,787
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When you say, "i'm just showing what the bible says", you aren't being truthful. I (ewq) am showing what the bible says, and it does not say what you say it says. You think I'm being tough on you and I am, because you are teaching the bible, but not teaching correctly or accurately and all teachers need to be thoroughly checked and challenged like this.
He may have just messed up which chapter he was thinking of. I have done that more than I care to mention. But that doesn't mean I agree with his opinions for I don't.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,053
1,231
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
He may have just messed up which chapter he was thinking of.


Nope. He always says Rev 16 shows the beast destroying Babylon, but it does not show that, nor does the beast even attack Babylon anywhere in the bible. It's just his own personal eisegesis that he has latched onto. He has refused all correction to date on this matter.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,762
3,787
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nope. He always says Rev 16 shows the beast destroying Babylon, but it does not show that, nor does the beast even attack Babylon anywhere in the bible. It's just his own personal eisegesis that he has latched onto. He has refused all correction to date on this matter.
Well if someone pointed it out and he still does it, then yes He is having some sort of issue in his heart.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,310
899
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, you don't. You don't even quote the passage of the bible you are talking about. I did though.
I do post the passages that I talk about and you even reply to them but how can I post passages when i'm showing that they don't say what a lot of people believe? That the point some event arn't in the bible
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,310
899
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Nope. He always says Rev 16 shows the beast destroying Babylon, but it does not show that, nor does the beast even attack Babylon anywhere in the bible. It's just his own personal eisegesis that he has latched onto. He has refused all correction to date on this matter.

16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

6 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.​

 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,310
899
113
54
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, you don't. You don't even quote the passage of the bible you are talking about. I did though.

I do post them but when I posted to you that Jesus came on the clouds of heaven and was led into His Fathers presence where thrones were set in place and you say that is not heaven does it even matter?
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,053
1,231
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds,[a] fell on people. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

6 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.​



Why omit the chapters? Is it because you claimed the beast destroyed Babylon in chp 16 when it is not in chp 16?

Here's the actual passages properly quoted:

The claim: Babylon the great is destroyed in revelation 16

The truth: She's not destroyed in chp 16.


Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
The Seventh Bowl
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


She is "destroyed" in chapter 17 and it's only the horns that do this to her.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,053
1,231
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I do post them but when I posted to you that Jesus came on the clouds of heaven and was led into His Fathers presence where thrones were set in place and you say that is not heaven does it even matter?

It matters if one wants to be accurate. The GWTJ is NOT held in heaven according to Rev 20.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,053
1,231
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So do you believe that anyone knows when the second coming is?

Of course, else it couldn't happen when it's supposed to. A major event happens the same day the second coming happens. A major event happens 3.5 days before the day the second coming happens. Both are from Rev 11.
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,542
587
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes but what you believe the binding to be isn't what amils believe the binding to be
Premils believe Satan will be bound. Amil believe Satan is limited like he always was limited. Obviously Amil will never see Satan as bound. That word is too strong for them. They should stop using the word bound, and then stop using Revelation 20 for anything they say. Amil will never interpret Revelation 20 correctly, so why do they keep interpreting Revelation 20 as everything else but what is actually written in Revelation 20?
 

David in NJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2021
7,846
4,160
113
48
Denville
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The reason that there is so much controversy and misunderstanding over Revelation chapter 20 is that most Christians don't understand that there are two sets of a thousand years one the reigning and one the binding. This is shown in Revelation chapter 20.

The binding ends in verse 7 when satan is released for his short season before he is cast into the lake of fire.

The reigning ends at the end of our world after satan is cast into the lake of fire as shown in verse 5 when the rest of the dead stand before the throne.

The key to understanding this is to realize that Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.
You have it in reverse.

When the LORD returns His 1,000 Year rule on earth, with His Saints begins.

After this 1,000 Year Reign satan is let loose one last time and when all is accomplished a New Heaven and Earth is created.

This is the correct Order of Rev ch20
 
  • Like
Reactions: ewq1938

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,542
587
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How so I just posted what the bible says. Rev 16 mentions the term Armageddon and rev 19 doesn't.

Babylon the great is destroyed in revelation 16 by the beast as Revelation 17:16-17 confirms who destroys her and revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast and the false prophet by Jeus. Thats exactually what the bible says so hows is that insane?

Again I am not being difficult or cocky i'm just showing what the bible says.
So if the Bible says this:

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?"

When you declare Jesus is not coming to earth, does that Scripture apply to you?

You seem to point out there is no verse stating Jesus is coming to the earth. When any one comes to where you are, are they not with you when they arrive? If Jesus is not coming to earth, then the word coming should be removed from Scripture as well. That word defines that they leave one place and arrive at another place. Many use the term advent, which is even stronger than a coming. Jesus was physically on earth at the first coming. Why would the second coming not imply the same process of Jesus on the earth?

The Day of the Lord is not just an event. It is the Lord on earth with us, in the form of the physical son of God, Jesus the Messiah the Prince. Or Jesus Christ the King.
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,762
3,787
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So do you believe that anyone knows when the second coming is?
Yes Jesus physical return will occur 7 years after the signing of the covenant between Israel and the Antichrist as declared in Romans 9!

All the thief in the night passages speak of the rapture and not the return. Teh bible tells us clearly when we can expect Jesus physical return to earth.