“The Law of the Spirit of Life”

[Johann]

A "law" is just a principle, power or force, which doesn't differ from the Pentateuch, as it's principle teaches seek God or die the second death.

I am not here to fight, or disagree, just want to learn.

We have died TO the law...which law? The Ten Commandments?

The law of Moses condemns.....

The law as a principle

The law of faith, which excludes self righteousness.......

The law of sin IN the members, which is victorious over the law of the mind.......

The law of the mind, which consents to the law of Moses, but cannot do it, because of the law of sin in the members..........

Law of the Spirit

Law of Christ

Maybe you can connect the dots for me?

Also, there are over a 1000 Imperatives recorded in the NT, to which believers must be obedient to

Shalom
J.

 

[Netchaplain]

I am not here to fight, or disagree, just want to learn.

We have died TO the law...which law? The Ten Commandments?

Hi, and I like everything you are saying. Technically, we died to the law of sin, and the believing Jews died to this and the Law of Moses.

The law of sin IN the members, which is victorious over the law of the mind.......

The law of the mind, which consents to the law of Moses, but cannot do it, because of the law of sin in the members..........

This is instructional the way you put it. But, I wouldn't say "victorious," because our sin nature (law in members) cannot overcome our law of the mind (new man). The law of the mind can only delay growth but never interfere with salvation.

Law of the Spirit

Law of Christ

The law of the Spirit is all that has to do with our new birth (the Spirit being its Creator) and Christ's Life in us (Col 4:4).

The law of Christ is simple and is contained singly: John 13:34

God bless and thanks for the reply and comment!

 

[Webers_Home]

there are over a 1000 Imperatives recorded in the NT, to which believers must be
obedient to

In time; folks blessed with the law of the Spirit per Jer 31:31-34 and Ezek 36:26-27
will become fully compliant with every one of those imperatives. (cf. Eph 2:11-22)
_

 

[Randy Kluth]

I know what you mean, but but the Law couldn't justify, for it was apart from the law that faith justified (Rom 3:28). Like everything you're sharing, and thanks for the replies and comments!

When we speak of NT "justification" we are speaking in a technical sense only of *eternal* justification. The Law did provide a less than adequate form of justification on a temporary basis. It enabled Israel to draw near to God and to remain in fellowship with Him, pleasing Him in their obedience.

Rom 3.30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

The point is, following the Law of Moses did not fix, permanently, our relationship with God. Sin still was a barrier between Israel and God, the temple itself being a form of separation between God and the people of God. And obeying the Law did not remove the problem of Death.

And so, when Paul speaks of the Law being unable to justify, he is only speaking, technically, of justification for Salvation, or Eternal Justification. He is *not* saying that the Law had no value in terms of showing the righteousness of Christ by symbol. All that was in the Law showed that righteousness that saves must come from Christ, and that whatever Israel did in obedience was insufficient to obtain Eternal Life.

Though it may sound like I'm promoting eternal justification by the Law of Moses, I'm not. I'm just advancing the idea that the concept of "law," generically, existed legitimately under the Law and even now, under NT terms.

 

[Peterlag]

I would say that the law of the Spirit is freedom, and the law of sin is bondage.

The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.'" MJS

You got that right.

 

[Netchaplain]

When we speak of NT "justification" we are speaking in a technical sense only of *eternal* justification. The Law did provide a less than adequate form of justification on a temporary basis. It enabled Israel to draw near to God and to remain in fellowship with Him, pleasing Him in their obedience.

Rom 3.30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

With Israel there was forgiveness (Num 15:25) for sins committed in ignorance (unintentionally), which established union and eternal life with God, but not yet justification from sin until Christ (Rom 3:26); "justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Ro 3:28). The law could not justify: "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Rom 3:20).

Ro 3:30 "justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Faith in God and not the law justifies!

 

[David H.]

“Immaturity is selfish; maturity is selfless. “

Love that quote

 

[Randy Kluth]

With Israel there was forgiveness (Num 15:25) for sins committed in ignorance (unintentionally), which established union and eternal life with God, but not yet justification from sin until Christ (Rom 3:26); "justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Ro 3:28). The law could not justify: "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight" (Rom 3:20).

Ro 3:30 "justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Faith in God and not the law justifies!

I don't know why we are so afraid of that word "justification?" Perhaps it is because we've been conditioned by all of the arguments produced by Protestants arguing Justification by Faith Alone?

I, for one, was raised from birth in the Lutheran Church, and confirmed in the teachings of Martin Luther--an every week attender. My grandparents all came from Lutheran countries or ethnicities. So I have Reformation Theology in my DNA.

However, as a young Lutheran, who backslid and returned to proper Christian practice (no longer Lutheran), I had to question the sloppy Grace that the Lutheran Church had presented me with. I went out Saturday night and sinned, and then went to church on Sunday morning, and took Communion, sincerely repenting of what I did and would probably continue to do. Very Catholic, I think?

Anyway, I came to the conclusion that Protestants were afraid of Law, and wanted to believe that justification was based on what Christ does through us, and not on what we do. So what we do is pretty "excusable?"

I couldn't stomach this form of rationalization, and so began to elevate, in my own thinking, the notion that free will is not the culprit. Free will is, in fact, necessary to prove acceptance of Christ, as well as the decision to live right. And so, free will, having existed under the Law as well as today, in the NT era, was never the culprit, was never evil. It was always the source of deciding to obey God, whether under the Law or under Christ.

So it is that the little dirty word "Justification" no longer disturbs me. Choosing, of our own free will, to accept Christ and to do right does justify us only in the sense that we are obeying God's word. We are not self-justified, but only justified in the sense we choose, of our own free will, to embrace Christ as our life.

In reality, we are still choosing the Protestant sense of letting Christ live through us. But we're also allowing that our free will is instrumental and in fact necessary in order to allow Christ to live through us and to produce this Justification.

That being said, free will accomplished the same thing in the OT era as it now does in the NT era. It justified Israel by their choice to work together with God to obey the Law, allowing God to work through them spiritually to produce obedience and righteousness. It was not eternal righteousness, in view of the fact Sin still had to be dealt with legally and in a final way. In other words, the Law only disposed of the problem of Sin temporarily, and not in the eternal sense of things.

I hope this helps you to see where I'm coming from.? It is a little sticky. If we can't get past this, it's okay. It's just a major concern of mine, and not a matter that is crucial to fellowship with other believers. That is, it is not one of the cardinal doctrines that determine our Salvation.

 

[Netchaplain]

I don't know why we are so afraid of that word "justification?"

We cannot be justified apart from Christ (Gal 2:16), thus the Law can only show one to Christ!

 

[Netchaplain]

Love that quote

Me too, God bless!

 

[marks]

I would say that the law of the Spirit is freedom, and the law of sin is bondage.

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ, we can understand this in the same way as the Law of Sin and Death.

Romans 5 puts it succintly, death passed unto all men, all men sinned, so all men died. We sin, sin kills, we die. The Law of Sin and Death.

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ, we have His Spirit Who makes us alive, that life found in Jesus Christ. So we are completely removed from the one, now we are under the other. Not a Decretive Law, but a Principle. Our life or death is no longer related to sin, it's found in Christ alone.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

We cannot be justified apart from Christ (Gal 2:16), thus the Law can only show one to Christ!

I agree, but I still have a lot of trouble explaining the difference between a generic sense of "justification" and the technical sense of "justification" as the NT Scriptures use it. Paul speaks of *eternal justification,* whereas the generic meaning is simply to be vindicated, which is both OT and NT.

But you're right. Eternal Justification only comes by Christ's merit, and by our willful choice to engage in that Salvation. My purpose is largely to point out that contrary to many free will does play a part in our Salvation. But it is only to participate in the Salvation that Christ alone won.

Maybe it's just too difficult to say in an environment where there is fear that some will assert that Salvation comes by our own volition and ability? Still, I feel it's necessary to assert that we *must* be doers of the word, and not just hearers. That is my burden, to insist that we must choose to abide in Christ and to exercise the righteousness he freely gives us.

This is the kind of "justification" I'm talking about when referring to the generic sense of "justification." It has nothing to do with winning our eternal justification, which Christ alone did...

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

This is how we are to vindicate our faith before God, by doing what Christ told us to do. We are "justified" not in terms of eternal salvation, but only in terms of obedience, resulting in salvation through Christ.

A synonym for "justify" is "defend." Consider statements like these: "We willfully defend Israel because the Lord has called her. We willfully justify Israel's cause before her enemies because they have chosen to follow the Lord. And so we are justified in defending them."

This is the generic sense of "self-justification," and has nothing to do with *eternal justification.* It simply means to vindicate one's self, or to defend one's self.

Even before Christ brought eternal salvation Israel was called upon to choose to obey God and to so justify themselves as God's People. They had a responsibility to defend themselves for the sake of God's promises. This was only a temporary justification, but it nonetheless was a generic form of justification before eternal justification came by the death of Christ and by the free gift of righteousness he gives to his followers.

Deut 33.7 And this he said about Judah: “Hear, Lord, the cry of Judah; bring him to his people. With his own hands he defends his cause. Oh, be his help against his foes!”

This is self-justification of the generic kind, and it is completely legitimate in light of God's word, which calls upon us to defend God's cause, as well as our own cause if we are following the Lord.

I would argue that offering animal sacrifices for sin under the Old Covenant was a *temporary* form of self-justification. It did not win eternal salvation, but it certainly brought justification before the Lord as an obedient people in covenant with God. Hopefully I'm able to make this distinction without sounding like a heretic!

 

[sheariah07]

I am not here to fight, or disagree, just want to learn.

We have died TO the law...which law? The Ten Commandments?

The law of Moses condemns.....

The law as a principle

The law of faith, which excludes self righteousness.......

The law of sin IN the members, which is victorious over the law of the mind.......

The law of the mind, which consents to the law of Moses, but cannot do it, because of the law of sin in the members..........

Law of the Spirit

Law of Christ

Maybe you can connect the dots for me?

Also, there are over a 1000 Imperatives recorded in the NT, to which believers must be obedient to

Shalom
J.

We died to the law of Moses. Because the promise was made to Abraham 430 before the law of Moses.

Galatians 3:8,17-19 KJV
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. [17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. [18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. [19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

That’s why Abraham is the father of faith and we are the children of Abraham
Galatians 3:29 KJV
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 3:7 KJV
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

The law is good…

Galatians 3:21-22 KJV
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

but the flesh is weak, that’s why we cannot obey the law.
[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

It’s important to note that we are in the flesh that’s why we are cursed because the flesh cannot obey because it was weak and the law of God is holy and just.
In Romans 7, the man wants to obey God but the problem is he can’t help but do what he doesn’t like. In short, he’s a servant and in bondage with sin.

Romans 7:14,18 KJV
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

[18]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

That’s why he cries, Romans 7:24 KJV
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (helpless state)

That’s where the solution comes:
Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus was sent by God in the likeness of sinful flesh, who is filled with the Holy Spirit, and obeyed all the law of Moses.

Matthew 3:15 KJV
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Matthew 5:17 KJV
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Romans 8:3 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Now the gospel of Jesus is about him dying in our place (because we were cursed and appointed to die) The wrath that should be poured on us was poured on him. He died on our behalf so that we can live righteously by his life.

Galatians 2:19 KJV
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Now Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant, has a new law called the law of liberty. (setting us free from the bondage of sin)

James 1:25 KJV
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

His two commandments (Love God and love your neighbor as yourself) are a summary of the 10 commandments. (The law of Christ/The law of Spirit)

Matthew 22:37-40 KJV
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus said, “Keep my commandments.” Now how can we who are in the flesh obey the law of liberty? It is by dying.

Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:24 KJV
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

We can only obey God’s new commandments by crucifying the flesh with the affections and lusts. How?

By his Spirit, which is also his Word.

Ephesians 6:17 KJV
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

If we truly believe Jesus, we will obey what he says. Like the centurion said:

Matthew 8:8-9 KJV
The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
[9] For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Likewise, God created everything in this world by his word. Jesus is the Word, the Word became flesh.

If we truly believe Jesus, we will obey his Word, and we become a new creature, just as God created everything by his word and it was so.
How do you know that you have obeyed his word? You do not cause anyone to stumble and you cannot sin.

1 Corinthians 8:9 KJV
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1 John 2:10-11 KJV
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. [11] But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Only by loving God and loving our neighbors (fulfilling the law) can we be not under the law.

James 2:8-13 KJV
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[13] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[sheariah07]

When we speak of NT "justification" we are speaking in a technical sense only of *eternal* justification. The Law did provide a less than adequate form of justification on a temporary basis. It enabled Israel to draw near to God and to remain in fellowship with Him, pleasing Him in their obedience.

Rom 3.30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

The point is, following the Law of Moses did not fix, permanently, our relationship with God. Sin still was a barrier between Israel and God, the temple itself being a form of separation between God and the people of God. And obeying the Law did not remove the problem of Death.

And so, when Paul speaks of the Law being unable to justify, he is only speaking, technically, of justification for Salvation, or Eternal Justification. He is *not* saying that the Law had no value in terms of showing the righteousness of Christ by symbol. All that was in the Law showed that righteousness that saves must come from Christ, and that whatever Israel did in obedience was insufficient to obtain Eternal Life.

Though it may sound like I'm promoting eternal justification by the Law of Moses, I'm not. I'm just advancing the idea that the concept of "law," generically, existed legitimately under the Law and even now, under NT terms.

The law of Moses is good and ordained to life. But we are in the flesh and the flesh is weak and is a natural enmity with God so that it cannot obey him even though he wants to. The solution of God is Jesus suffering the wrath of God in our stead so that by the life of Jesus we can finally obey his commandments which is love God and love our neighbors by his Spirit. We can only do this by living the life that Christ lived here on earth, which is opposite of what we all do in the flesh, this could only happen by dying. That's why we are to recon ourselves dead to sin (denying all lusts of the flesh) if we put to death the flesh, we walk in the Spirit and hence cannot sin anymore. Because Romans 7 man is different from the Romans 8 man. The Romans 7 man is carnal and the Romans 8 man is Spiritual. Where one most identifies with, that's what he is. He cannot be both.

 

[HIM]

The law of Moses is good and ordained to life. But we are in the flesh and the flesh is weak and is a natural enmity with God so that it cannot obey him even though he wants to. The solution of God is Jesus suffering the wrath of God in our stead so that by the life of Jesus we can finally obey his commandments which is love God and love our neighbors by his Spirit. We can only do this by living the life that Christ lived here on earth, which is opposite of what we all do in the flesh, this could only happen by dying. That's why we are to recon ourselves dead to sin (denying all lusts of the flesh) if we put to death the flesh, we walk in the Spirit and hence cannot sin anymore. Because Romans 7 man is different from the Romans 8 man. The Romans 7 man is carnal and the Romans 8 man is Spiritual. Where one most identifies with, that's what he is. He cannot be both.

We are dead to sin through Christ so we can not sin anymore? Then there is no need for the Law because the law showed us what sin was? Therefore we are dead to the law?

 

[sheariah07]

We are dead to sin through Christ so we can not sin anymore? Then there is no need for the Law because the law showed us what sin was? Therefore we are dead to the law?

Yes. Dead to sin through Christ

1 Peter 2:24 KJV
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Cannot sin anymore

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Dead to the law

Galatians 2:19 KJV
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

For instance, an innocent person cannot be penalized of something he did not do. The law cannot sue me of commiting murder because I did not commit murder. The law cannot condemn me because I abide by it. Likewise, those who live in Christ have fulfilled the law, against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[Johann]

That's why we are to recon ourselves dead to sin (denying all lusts of the flesh) if we put to death the flesh, we walk in the Spirit and hence cannot sin anymore.

Nope, believers still commit acts of sin, in word, thought and deed.

 

[sheariah07]

Nope, believers still commit acts of sin, in word, thought and deed.

Whoever sins is a slave of sin. You said yourself that you still sin, does that not worry you if you are really in the faith? You cannot be a slave of righteousness while being enslaved by sin. No man can serve two masters. How then are believers different from outsiders if they still do the same things they died to?

John 8:36 KJV
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Matthew 12:36-37 KJV
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

James 3:2 KJV
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

 

[Johann]

The law of Moses is good and ordained to life. But we are in the flesh and the flesh is weak and is a natural enmity with God so that it cannot obey him even though he wants to. The solution of God is Jesus suffering the wrath of God in our stead so that by the life of Jesus we can finally obey his commandments which is love God and love our neighbors by his Spirit. We can only do this by living the life that Christ lived here on earth, which is opposite of what we all do in the flesh, this could only happen by dying. That's why we are to recon ourselves dead to sin (denying all lusts of the flesh) if we put to death the flesh, we walk in the Spirit and hence cannot sin anymore. Because Romans 7 man is different from the Romans 8 man. The Romans 7 man is carnal and the Romans 8 man is Spiritual. Where one most identifies with, that's what he is. He cannot be both.

ye are not under the law; such are not only delivered from the law in fact, but in their own apprehensions; they have the comfortable knowledge and experience of it; the law is no terrifying law to them; it works no wrath in them; they are delivered from the spirit of bondage to fear, by the Spirit of God, by whom they are led; nor are they under it, nor do they need it as a pressing forcing law to duty; they delight in it, and cheerfully serve it, being constrained by love, and not awed by fear; nor are its accusations and charges regarded, or to be regarded, by such who are led by the Spirit to Christ, the end of the law for righteousness;

and they are entirely freed from its curse and condemnation,

though they are under it, and desire to be under it, as held forth by Christ the King of saints; and, under the Spirit's influence and guidance, yield a cheerful and evangelical obedience to it.
Gill

 

[Johann]

Whoever sins is a slave of sin. You said yourself that you still sin, does that not worry you if you are really in the faith? You cannot be a slave of righteousness while being enslaved by sin. No man can serve two masters. How then are believers different from outsiders if they still do the same things they died to?

John 8:36 KJV
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Matthew 12:36-37 KJV
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [37] For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

James 3:2 KJV
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Are you advocating sinless perfection?