“The Law of the Spirit of Life”

[sheariah07]

Are you advocating sinless perfection?

I am just sharing the truth that I know and experience myself. But it could only be accepted by those who long for righteousness. As Jesus said, blessed are the broken hearted for they shall be comforted, blessed are those who long for righteousness for they shall be filled.

I do not want to say this, but though I give all the scriptures to show the truth, it is hidden in the eyes of men. But I tell you the truth that Jesus is the Savior from sin. Not just from the penalty, but from committing sin itself. I marvel at how people cannot believe that Jesus can save us from committing sins because He created us, he owns everything, and most importantly, nothing is impossible for him. He who cast out demons, can he not also cast out my sin? He who made the dead alive, can he not also save me from committing sin? Those who say they cannot stop sinning do not believe that it is possible for God to stop you from sinning.

You may wonder, how is this possible to stop sinning?

What does the new covenant of God say?
Jeremiah 32:40 KJV
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

He will put fear in our hearts that we would depart from evil. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Without fear men do wickedness.

One cannot know how amazing his saving power is unless he experiences it himself.

To be clear, I did not experience this immediately. It took several years until this happened.

The law was my schoolmaster because it showed me how hopeless my state it that I cannot do anything to save myself with my own will power and own works. I realized that I was a wretched man and believed that Jesus could save me if I believe that he will save me. Now I'm no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You only have one master.
Romans 6:16 KJV
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Johann]

Are you advocating sinless perfection?

1. While we can never lay claim in this life to sinless perfection, it is greatly to our comfort if before
men we have the testimony of a good conscience, especially at times when we are wrongly
criticized. We should not be overly troubled by the censures of men. God knows us for what we
really are. How can this help us to maintain our constant desire to please Him and wait for His
vindication?
2. Christ well understands what it was like to be surrounded by wicked men, and to wait quietly upon
God’s justice as they attacked Him like lions. If ever there was a person with the right to cry out for
justice, it was the innocent Son of God. Yet He received insult and injury so very meekly. How
does this psalm show us the way to follow in Christ’s footsteps?
He that is without sin. Christ was not demanding the sinless perfection of any who would enforce
judicial punishments on criminals (Rom. 13:1–4) but appealing to the conscience to ensure that
punishment would be meted out with justice and integrity. He also challenged their wicked attempt to
trap Him instead of receiving Him.
Therefore, examine your life for the signs of God’s saving grace with wisdom and caution. Do not
demand sinless perfection of yourself (1 John 1:8). Also, do not require great spiritual maturity as proof
of conversion. On the other hand, do not make signs of grace out of qualities that unbelievers can have,
like receiving baptism and the Lord’s Supper, having right doctrinal beliefs, and exercising great ability
in Christian service. Test yourself by the true standard, the Word of God (Ps. 119:105).

As you look for evidences of saving grace, never forget to keep looking to Christ alone as your peace
with God and basis of your salvation.

Deal honestly with yourself, and fight against self-love and self-flattery. If your soul is full of darkness and despair, do not be quick to judge yourself but wait until you
can think more clearly. While you examine yourself, pray to God for His Spirit to enlighten your eyes.

I guess you forgot to read-"committing ACTS of sin, not living in a STATE of sin."

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Confession of sins flows from 'walking in the light' (1Jn_1:7).

'If thou shall confess thyself a sinner, the truth is in thee; for the truth is light. Not yet has thy life become perfectly light, as sins are still in thee; yet thou hast already begun to be illuminated, because there is in thee confession of sins' (Augustine).
That we have no sin. "HAVE," not 'have had,' must refer, not to the past life while unconverted, but to the present state, wherein believers have sin even still. "Sin" is singular; "(confess our) sins," 1Jn_1:9, plural.

Sin means the corruption of the old man still in us, and the stain created by actual sins flowing from that old nature. To confess our need of cleansing from present sin is essential to 'walking in the light;' so far is the presence of sin incompatible with our in the main 'walking in light.' But the believer hates, confesses, and longs to be delivered from all sin, which is darkness. 'They who defend their sins will see in the great day whether their sins can defend them.'
JFB

If we say that we have no sin,.... Notwithstanding believers are cleansed from their sins by the blood of Christ, yet they are not without sin; no man is without sin: this is not only true of all men, as they come into the world, being conceived in sin, and shapen in iniquity, and of all that are in a state of unregeneracy, and of God's elect, while in such a state, but even of all regenerated and sanctified persons in this life; as appears by the ingenuous confessions of sin made by the saints in all ages; by their complaints concerning it, and groans under it; by the continual war in them between flesh and spirit; and by their prayers for the discoveries of pardoning grace, and for the fresh application of Christ's blood for cleansing; by their remissness in the discharge of duty, and by their frequent slips and falls, and often backslidings: and though their sins are all pardoned, and they are justified from all things by the righteousness of Christ, yet they are not without sin; though they are freed from the guilt of sin, and are under no obligation to punishment on account of it, yet not from the being of it; their sins were indeed transferred from them to Christ, and he has bore them, and took them and put them away, and they are redeemed from them, and are acquitted, discharged, and pardoned, so that sin is not imputed to them, and God sees no iniquity in them in the article of justification; and also, their iniquities are caused to pass from them, as to the guilt of them, and are taken out of their sight, and they have no more conscience of them, having their hearts sprinkled and purged by the blood of Jesus, and are clear of all condemnation, the curse of the law, the wrath of God, or the second death, by reason of them; yet pardon of sin, and justification from it, though they take away the guilt of sin, and free from obligation to punishment, yet they do not take out the being of sin, or cause it to cease to act, or do not make sins cease to be sins, or change the nature of actions, of sinful ones, to make them harmless, innocent, or indifferent; the sins of believers are equally sins with other persons, are of the same kind and nature, and equally transgressions of the law, and many of them are attended with more aggravating circumstances, and are taken notice of by God, and resented by him, and for which he chastises his people in love:
Gill.

Difference between living in a STATE of sin, as opposed to committing ACTS of sin.

 

[Johann]

One cannot know how amazing his saving power is unless he experiences it himself.

I think there is a misunderstanding.

Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.

I think Gill said it well..
I find then a law,.... This is to be understood either of the corruption of nature, which he found by experience to be in him; and which, because of its force, power, and prevalence it sometimes had in him, he calls "a law"; it forcibly demanding compliance with its lusts; and is the same with what he calls "evil", and which the Jews so frequently style יצר הרע "the evil imagination", by which they mean the corruption of nature; and one of the seven names, and the first of them, by which it is called, they tell us (k),

is, רע, "evil"; the very name it goes by here, and which they say God calls it, Gen_6:5; and well may it be so called, since it is originally, naturally, and continually evil; it is evil in its nature and consequences; it is the source and spring of all evil:
that when I would do good; says the apostle, as soon as any good thought arises in me, any good resolution is entered into by me, or I am about to do anything that is good,
evil, the vitiosity of nature,
is present with me, and hinders me; it came into the world with me, and it has continued with me ever since; it cleaves close unto me, it lies very nigh me, and whenever there is any motion to that which is good, it starts up, which seemed to lie asleep before, and exerts itself, so that I cannot do the good I would.

The Jews say (l), there are שתי לבבות, "two hearts" in man, the good imagination, and the evil imagination.

The apostle here speaks as of two wills in regenerate men, one to good, and another to evil: or this may be understood of the law of God, which he found agreed with his mind, willing that which is good, though sin lay so near to him; or he found that willing that which was good was the law of God, very agreeable to it; and that the law was on his side, favouring him, encouraging him to that which is good, though sin kept so close to him; to which sense agree the following words.
(k) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 52. 1. & Kiddushin, fol. 30. 2. (l) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 135. 4.
Gill.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in respect to the inward [new nature] man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my body members, warring against the law of my mind, and seeking to lead me captive to the law of sin [the old nature] which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 ... Wretched man that I am! who shall rescue me from The body of sin ?

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God [He will deliver me] through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (the new nature) indeed I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:26 Likewise THE Holy Spirit Himself also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but THE Holy Spirit Himself maketh intercession ... with groanings unutterable.

Rom 8:27 But He [THE Holy Spirit] That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of THE Spirit Himself, because He [THE Holy Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 8:28 But we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose .

Helpeth, [ hoosautoos (G5615) de (G1161) kai (G2532), rather,`But after the like manner doth the Spirit also help'] our infirmities. The true reading, beyond doubt, is in the singular number-`our infirmity.' The infirmity meant is not merely the one infirmity regarding prayer here specified, but the general weakness of the spiritual life-of which one example is here given,.........
JFB

astheneia
24x: want of strength, weakness, feebleness, 1Co_15:43; bodily infirmity, state of ill health, sickness, Mat_8:17; Luk_5:15; met. infirmity, frailty, imperfection, intellectual and moral, Rom_6:19; 1Co_2:3; Heb_5:2; Heb_7:28; suffering, affliction, distress, calamity, Rom_8:26.


Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Plural
Gender: Feminine

Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

One cannot know how amazing his saving power is unless he experiences it himself.

I think there is a misunderstanding.

Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.

I think Gill said it well..
I find then a law,.... This is to be understood either of the corruption of nature, which he found by experience to be in him; and which, because of its force, power, and prevalence it sometimes had in him, he calls "a law"; it forcibly demanding compliance with its lusts; and is the same with what he calls "evil", and which the Jews so frequently style יצר הרע "the evil imagination", by which they mean the corruption of nature; and one of the seven names, and the first of them, by which it is called, they tell us (k),

is, רע, "evil"; the very name it goes by here, and which they say God calls it, Gen_6:5; and well may it be so called, since it is originally, naturally, and continually evil; it is evil in its nature and consequences; it is the source and spring of all evil:
that when I would do good; says the apostle, as soon as any good thought arises in me, any good resolution is entered into by me, or I am about to do anything that is good,
evil, the vitiosity of nature,
is present with me, and hinders me; it came into the world with me, and it has continued with me ever since; it cleaves close unto me, it lies very nigh me, and whenever there is any motion to that which is good, it starts up, which seemed to lie asleep before, and exerts itself, so that I cannot do the good I would.

The Jews say (l), there are שתי לבבות, "two hearts" in man, the good imagination, and the evil imagination.

The apostle here speaks as of two wills in regenerate men, one to good, and another to evil: or this may be understood of the law of God, which he found agreed with his mind, willing that which is good, though sin lay so near to him; or he found that willing that which was good was the law of God, very agreeable to it; and that the law was on his side, favouring him, encouraging him to that which is good, though sin kept so close to him; to which sense agree the following words.
(k) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 52. 1. & Kiddushin, fol. 30. 2. (l) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 135. 4.
Gill.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in respect to the inward [new nature] man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my body members, warring against the law of my mind, and seeking to lead me captive to the law of sin [the old nature] which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 ... Wretched man that I am! who shall rescue me from The body of sin ?

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God [He will deliver me] through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (the new nature) indeed I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:26 Likewise THE Holy Spirit Himself also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but THE Holy Spirit Himself maketh intercession ... with groanings unutterable.

Rom 8:27 But He [THE Holy Spirit] That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of THE Spirit Himself, because He [THE Holy Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 8:28 But we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose .

Helpeth, [ hoosautoos (G5615) de (G1161) kai (G2532), rather,`But after the like manner doth the Spirit also help'] our infirmities. The true reading, beyond doubt, is in the singular number-`our infirmity.' The infirmity meant is not merely the one infirmity regarding prayer here specified, but the general weakness of the spiritual life-of which one example is here given,.........
JFB

astheneia
24x: want of strength, weakness, feebleness, 1Co_15:43; bodily infirmity, state of ill health, sickness, Mat_8:17; Luk_5:15; met. infirmity, frailty, imperfection, intellectual and moral, Rom_6:19; 1Co_2:3; Heb_5:2; Heb_7:28; suffering, affliction, distress, calamity, Rom_8:26.


Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Plural
Gender: Feminine

Shalom
J.

The Romans 7 man is carnal and the Romans 8 man is Spiritual. Where one most identifies with, that's what he is. He cannot be both.

I wouldn't stress that Rom 7 was Paul, the carnal man, and in Rom 8, Paul the sinless man.

 

[sheariah07]

I think there is a misunderstanding.

Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.

I think Gill said it well..
I find then a law,.... This is to be understood either of the corruption of nature, which he found by experience to be in him; and which, because of its force, power, and prevalence it sometimes had in him, he calls "a law"; it forcibly demanding compliance with its lusts; and is the same with what he calls "evil", and which the Jews so frequently style יצר הרע "the evil imagination", by which they mean the corruption of nature; and one of the seven names, and the first of them, by which it is called, they tell us (k),

is, רע, "evil"; the very name it goes by here, and which they say God calls it, Gen_6:5; and well may it be so called, since it is originally, naturally, and continually evil; it is evil in its nature and consequences; it is the source and spring of all evil:
that when I would do good; says the apostle, as soon as any good thought arises in me, any good resolution is entered into by me, or I am about to do anything that is good,
evil, the vitiosity of nature,
is present with me, and hinders me; it came into the world with me, and it has continued with me ever since; it cleaves close unto me, it lies very nigh me, and whenever there is any motion to that which is good, it starts up, which seemed to lie asleep before, and exerts itself, so that I cannot do the good I would.

The Jews say (l), there are שתי לבבות, "two hearts" in man, the good imagination, and the evil imagination.

The apostle here speaks as of two wills in regenerate men, one to good, and another to evil: or this may be understood of the law of God, which he found agreed with his mind, willing that which is good, though sin lay so near to him; or he found that willing that which was good was the law of God, very agreeable to it; and that the law was on his side, favouring him, encouraging him to that which is good, though sin kept so close to him; to which sense agree the following words.
(k) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 52. 1. & Kiddushin, fol. 30. 2. (l) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 135. 4.
Gill.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in respect to the inward [new nature] man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my body members, warring against the law of my mind, and seeking to lead me captive to the law of sin [the old nature] which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 ... Wretched man that I am! who shall rescue me from The body of sin ?

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God [He will deliver me] through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (the new nature) indeed I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:26 Likewise THE Holy Spirit Himself also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but THE Holy Spirit Himself maketh intercession ... with groanings unutterable.

Rom 8:27 But He [THE Holy Spirit] That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of THE Spirit Himself, because He [THE Holy Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 8:28 But we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose .

Helpeth, [ hoosautoos (G5615) de (G1161) kai (G2532), rather,`But after the like manner doth the Spirit also help'] our infirmities. The true reading, beyond doubt, is in the singular number-`our infirmity.' The infirmity meant is not merely the one infirmity regarding prayer here specified, but the general weakness of the spiritual life-of which one example is here given,.........
JFB

astheneia
24x: want of strength, weakness, feebleness, 1Co_15:43; bodily infirmity, state of ill health, sickness, Mat_8:17; Luk_5:15; met. infirmity, frailty, imperfection, intellectual and moral, Rom_6:19; 1Co_2:3; Heb_5:2; Heb_7:28; suffering, affliction, distress, calamity, Rom_8:26.


Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Plural
Gender: Feminine

Shalom
J.

I wouldn't stress that Rom 7 was Paul, the carnal man, and in Rom 8, Paul the sinless man.

Romans 7
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I AM CARNAL, sold under sin.

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but WHAT I HATE, THAT DO I.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for TO WILL IS PRESENT WITH ME; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but THE EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT, THAT I DO.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This is a believer who wants to please God and keeps trying but keeps failing. He came to the point of wretchedness. He knew that it was impossible for he was “carnal” (fleshly)

But comes the believer's hope in the last verse. He cries, WHO shall DELIVER me from the body of this death?

Then the good news comes, I thank God it's THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!

Romans 7:25 I thank God THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We see the transition from Romans 7 (The carnal believer) to Romans 8 (the spiritual believer, the saved from sin)

Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. (the old testament law)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW might be FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

We see that there is a condition. A believer should walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH; (Romans 7 carnal) but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8 spiritual)

Because the CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, neither indeed can be. (That's why a carnal believer keeps trying not to sin but fails)

So then they that are IN THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Therefore, brethren, WE ARE DEBTORS, NOT TO THE FLESH, to live after the flesh.

For IF YE LIVE AFTER THE FLESH (CARNAL), YE SHALL DIE: but if ye THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY the DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live.

Here comes what Jesus said about mortifying the deeds of the body:

Luke 9:23-24
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. [24] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Matthew 10:38-39
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. [39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

If we take up our cross, that is our death, we are crucified with Christ by denying our own will and only seeking the will of God.

Now, how do you know whether you are a carnal Christian or Spiritual? Why do I say carnal Christian? Let's see how Apostle Paul described the CHURCH in Corinth.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV
And I, BRETHREN, could not speak unto you as unto SPIRITUAL (Romans 8), but as unto CARNAL (Romans 7), even as unto BABES in Christ.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For YE ARE YET CARNAL:...............................

 

[sheariah07]

What makes a believer a carnal?

for whereas there is among you ENVYING, and STRIFE, and DIVISIONS, are ye not CARNAL, AND WALK AS MEN? (Fleshly)

Let's take STRIFE and ENVYING. Do you still fight with someone and envy others?

Apostle Paul described these as carnal mind. Now are you saved if you are carnal? Apostle Paul clearly says in Galatians:

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these ; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, STRIFE, seditions, heresies, ENVYINGS, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

James 3:14-16
But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. [16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

And again, the carnal mind is enmity against God for it cannot please him and is not subject to him.

Take for example Peter who before he was filled with the Spirit, Jesus rebuked him saying, Matthew 16:23-25
But he turned, and said unto Peter, GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN: thou art an offence unto me: for THOU SAVOUREST NOT the things that be OF GOD (spiritual), but those that be OF MEN (carnal).

Then Jesus continued: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

So a believer who keeps trying not to sin but keeps failing is the carnal believer and has to be converted to the Spiritual believer. Only then can you be called Born Again. You died (flesh with the lusts crucified with Christ) and rose again (born again spiritually)

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD by the glory of the Father, EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

Is it possible then to be freed from sinning?

John 8:34,36
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be FREE INDEED.

1 Peter 4:1-2
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath SUFFERED IN THE FLESH HATH CEASED FROM SIN;

That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

James 2:8
IF YE FULFIL THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

But be careful to say that sometimes you are carnal but sometimes spiritual. For God said:

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

James 3:9-12
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

This is the true gospel of Jesus Christ where he said whoever believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.

 

[Netchaplain]

So we are completely removed from the one, now we are under the other.

Amen (Ro 8:9). God bless!

 

[Netchaplain]

I agree, but I still have a lot of trouble explaining the difference between a generic sense of "justification"

It's okay, but I don't understand what you're trying to say here about "generic." God bless!

 

[Johann]

I think there is a misunderstanding.

Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.

I think Gill said it well..
I find then a law,.... This is to be understood either of the corruption of nature, which he found by experience to be in him; and which, because of its force, power, and prevalence it sometimes had in him, he calls "a law"; it forcibly demanding compliance with its lusts; and is the same with what he calls "evil", and which the Jews so frequently style יצר הרע "the evil imagination", by which they mean the corruption of nature; and one of the seven names, and the first of them, by which it is called, they tell us (k),

is, רע, "evil"; the very name it goes by here, and which they say God calls it, Gen_6:5; and well may it be so called, since it is originally, naturally, and continually evil; it is evil in its nature and consequences; it is the source and spring of all evil:
that when I would do good; says the apostle, as soon as any good thought arises in me, any good resolution is entered into by me, or I am about to do anything that is good,
evil, the vitiosity of nature,
is present with me, and hinders me; it came into the world with me, and it has continued with me ever since; it cleaves close unto me, it lies very nigh me, and whenever there is any motion to that which is good, it starts up, which seemed to lie asleep before, and exerts itself, so that I cannot do the good I would.

The Jews say (l), there are שתי לבבות, "two hearts" in man, the good imagination, and the evil imagination.

The apostle here speaks as of two wills in regenerate men, one to good, and another to evil: or this may be understood of the law of God, which he found agreed with his mind, willing that which is good, though sin lay so near to him; or he found that willing that which was good was the law of God, very agreeable to it; and that the law was on his side, favouring him, encouraging him to that which is good, though sin kept so close to him; to which sense agree the following words.
(k) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 52. 1. & Kiddushin, fol. 30. 2. (l) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 135. 4.
Gill.
Rom 7:21 I find then the law with me who wish to do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in respect to the inward [new nature] man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my body members, warring against the law of my mind, and seeking to lead me captive to the law of sin [the old nature] which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 ... Wretched man that I am! who shall rescue me from The body of sin ?

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God [He will deliver me] through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (the new nature) indeed I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:26 Likewise THE Holy Spirit Himself also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but THE Holy Spirit Himself maketh intercession ... with groanings unutterable.

Rom 8:27 But He [THE Holy Spirit] That searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of THE Spirit Himself, because He [THE Holy Spirit] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom 8:28 But we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose .

Helpeth, [ hoosautoos (G5615) de (G1161) kai (G2532), rather,`But after the like manner doth the Spirit also help'] our infirmities. The true reading, beyond doubt, is in the singular number-`our infirmity.' The infirmity meant is not merely the one infirmity regarding prayer here specified, but the general weakness of the spiritual life-of which one example is here given,.........
JFB

astheneia
24x: want of strength, weakness, feebleness, 1Co_15:43; bodily infirmity, state of ill health, sickness, Mat_8:17; Luk_5:15; met. infirmity, frailty, imperfection, intellectual and moral, Rom_6:19; 1Co_2:3; Heb_5:2; Heb_7:28; suffering, affliction, distress, calamity, Rom_8:26.


Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Plural
Gender: Feminine

Shalom
J.

I wouldn't stress that Rom 7 was Paul, the carnal man, and in Rom 8, Paul the sinless man.

At the same time, what is said in Rom_8:2 of "the law of sin and death" - the subject which had been so fully treated in the latter part of Rom_7:1-25 - shows that that same subject is still in the apostle's thoughts, and is what gave occasion to the inferential words, "Now therefore," or, 'In these circumstances, then.' And we regard the whole statement as amounting to this: 'Dire and deadly as is the struggle we have depicted between the law of the renewed mind and the law in the members, it is the struggle, after all, of those who cannot fail in it-of those who are in Christ Jesus, and as such have the very standing before God of Christ Himself.
JFB.

 

[Johann]

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV
And I, BRETHREN, could not speak unto you as unto SPIRITUAL (Romans 8), but as unto CARNAL (Romans 7), even as unto BABES in Christ.

So, by inserting Rom 7, Paul, the unregenerate man, and cross reference it to 1 Cor. 3:1-3....ALL the Believers in Corinth were unregenerate!

2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


spiritual, but as unto carnal.

The Corinthian believers were spiritual because they had received the
Holy Spirit. However, they were acting carnally, being driven by fleshly desires, and immature, as
babes. This would certainly be a shock to them, as they perceived themselves to be mature spiritual.

By reading the above gives me hope=======

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
And I - i:e., as the natural (animal) man cannot receive, so I also could not (was not able-namely, at my second visit-to) speak unto you deep things of God, since spiritual things can be made intelligible only to the spiritual (1Co_2:13);

but I was compelled to speak to you as I would to MEN OF FLESH. 'Aleph (') A B C Delta G f g, Vulgate, read this for "carnal."

Fleshy [ sarkinois (G4560)] implies men wholly of flesh.

Carnal, or fleshly, implies not that they were wholly unregenerate (1Co_2:14), but that they had a carnal tendency [1Co_3:3, sarkikoi (G4559)] (for instance, their divisions), notwithstanding their conversion (1Co_1:4-9).
Babes - neophytes; contrasted with the perfect (fully matured) in Christ (Col_1:28 : cf. Heb_5:13-14).

They had life in Christ, but it was weak.

He blames them for being still in a degree (not altogether; therefore he says "as") babes in Christ, when by this time they ought to have "come unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ"

(Eph_4:13). In Rom_7:14, also the oldest manuscripts, read, 'I am a man of flesh,' which goes toward proving that Paul there describes his regenerate but imperfect state.
JFB

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Ce, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co_1:11, 1Co_6:1-8, 1Co_11:18; 2Co_12:20; Gal_5:15, Gal_5:19-21; Jas_3:16, Jas_4:1-2
divisions: or, factions
and walk: Hos_6:7; Mar_7:21-22; Eph_2:2-3, Eph_4:22-24; Tit_3:3; 1Pe_4:2
as men: Gr. according to man


After the opening verses Paul immediately draws focus onto the report he has heard, namely, that of
divisions in the church (1:18—6:20). There were those in the church who were encouraging a party
spirit, rallying around Paul, Apollos, Cephas (Peter), and even a party that claimed to be of Christ.

Given that these men preached the same gospel and their teachings were not antithetical one to another,
the nature of the party spirit was not theological, but one of personality.

Paul objects to the disunity by
enumerating the glories of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Though foolish, offensive, and weak from man’s
natural perspective, the gospel is the wisdom and power of God and it is through the preaching of the
cross that God has demonstrated His glory.


Paul builds his argument to its culminating point by
announcing that believers are by God in union with Christ, who of God was made unto us wisdom, that
is, our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption (1:30). Jesus Christ is everything to and for the
believer with the result that all glory is due to God alone.

A divisive party spirit is antithetical to the
gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul goes on to show that the nature of gospel ministry (chs. 3–4) also eradicates
the acceptability of having a party spirit.


Not only was there a divisive spirit among the church, there was also immorality so odious that the
Gentiles did not even name it (ch. 5). What was so grieving to Paul was not merely the fact that one
within the church would be involved in an illicit relation with his father’s wife (5:1), but that the church
tolerated it!

He exhorts them to deal with the sin and deliver such a one over to Satan and he rebukes
them for glorying in the sin itself. Again, the gospel forms the basis of Paul’s argumentation.


Christ is
our Passover (5:7). In Christ all things are new. The old is to be put away and believers are not to be
holding on to the former things of malice and wickedness, but rather, are to live in sincerity and truth
(5:8).


In Christ they are sanctified, set apart. Therefore, they are to live accordingly.
Next, Paul addresses the report that there were scandalous litigations between church members (ch.


6). The Corinthians boasted in themselves about how spiritual they were. Yet, they could not even
resolve differences between themselves. They took their differences before the unbelievers to find
resolution (6:6).

Paul encourages them that it is better to accept the wrong and the loss than it is to bring
reproach to Christ’s name (6:7).


Chapters 7–16 form the second major division of the book. In these chapters Paul addresses issues
raised by the Corinthian church.

Chapter 7 focuses on the subject of marriage and divorce.


Chapters 8–
10 touch upon food offered to idols and how to deal with fellow church members whose consciences
vary on these matters. Paul provides a personal illustration in ch. 9, showing the difference between
rights and liberty.

As an apostle he has the right to receive remuneration for his labors, but for the sake
of his testimony and for the usefulness of his ministry he has the liberty to refuse it.


Chapter 11 focuses
on decorum in public worship with respect to gender distinctions and the Lord’s Supper. Chapters 12–


14 provide the most detailed treatment of the spiritual gifts in the New Testament, which Paul frames
around love for the brethren and orderly worship. While much of the focus in this letter focuses on
purity of life, we see in ch. 15 that Christians are to be pure in doctrine as well. Paul’s in-depth
treatment of the resurrection of Christ and of believers highlights the point that belief is a matter of
morality and motivation for the Christian life (15:58). Finally, Paul addresses the matter of the
collection for the saints. He closes his letter by mentioning his travel plans and final exhortations to
stand fast in the faith (16:13)

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's okay, but I don't understand what you're trying to say here about "generic." God bless!

Yea, sometimes I just fail to communicate. The generic sense of "justification" would be like justifying my paycheck by performing a good job. The technical sense of "justification" would be like God justifying Himself for giving sinful people eternal life. The generic sense of "justification" is an any-application of the word, and not necessarily anything to do with obtaining eternal life.

We cannot provide our own justification for obtaining eternal life precisely because we're sinners and are by default disqualified. But God can justify giving us eternal life, even while we're sinners, by both forgiving us what we've done to Him and by giving us a righteousness that displays evidence of true repentance.

Generically, Israel justified the fact they were God's People under the Law by obeying the Law. But in the technical sense of "justification," they could not thereby justify obtaining eternal life through their obedience because the Law confirmed their sinfulness and disqualification from eternal life. As much righteousness as the Law gave Israel it also amplified their need for the Law and its ritualistic remedies as sinners.

Justification, in the more technical sense, could only come by Christ's act of atonement, forgiving our sins, and granting us continued access to his righteousness. In another more broad sense, the Bible uses other words to explain how we are able to justify things we do as acceptable to God by doing precisely what He said to do.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The law of Moses is good and ordained to life. But we are in the flesh and the flesh is weak and is a natural enmity with God so that it cannot obey him even though he wants to. The solution of God is Jesus suffering the wrath of God in our stead so that by the life of Jesus we can finally obey his commandments which is love God and love our neighbors by his Spirit. We can only do this by living the life that Christ lived here on earth, which is opposite of what we all do in the flesh, this could only happen by dying. That's why we are to recon ourselves dead to sin (denying all lusts of the flesh) if we put to death the flesh, we walk in the Spirit and hence cannot sin anymore. Because Romans 7 man is different from the Romans 8 man. The Romans 7 man is carnal and the Romans 8 man is Spiritual. Where one most identifies with, that's what he is. He cannot be both.

Okay on everything but a few things... We don't "finally obey the Law" in Christ. The Law was always obeyed in the sense that Israel, in her imperfection, could obey it. They just could not obey it in a sinless way, as even the Law indicated by requiring sin offerings regularly.

What happens in the NT era is we are able to obey God still as imperfect people but now with our righteousness no longer subject to disqualification by sin. We are still sinners, but our sin may not disqualify our righteousness as part of our hope of eternal life. The righteousness we display comes from Christ and may not be cut off, assuming we have really made a final covenant with Christ.

Israel under the Old Covenant had the same kind of help from God obeying Him as we have under the New Covenant. They had the Spirit of God resident in God's Word to them. The Word of God is the source of life-giving power that enables Man to obey God. In creating Man, male and female, He gave them power to live in His image. And this has never changed, OT or NT, even as sinners.

The important thing is that with Christ's sacrifice our obedience cannot be voided by the curse of sin. Having been forgiven we are able to obtain eternal life, and our righteousness continues without the threat of disqualification. The OT saints were no different from NT saints except that they had to live under a system that replicated their need for Christ to pardon Sin.

 

[Johann]

Romans 7
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I AM CARNAL, sold under sin.

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but WHAT I HATE, THAT DO I.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for TO WILL IS PRESENT WITH ME; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but THE EVIL WHICH I WOULD NOT, THAT I DO.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This is a believer who wants to please God and keeps trying but keeps failing. He came to the point of wretchedness. He knew that it was impossible for he was “carnal” (fleshly)

But comes the believer's hope in the last verse. He cries, WHO shall DELIVER me from the body of this death?

Then the good news comes, I thank God it's THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!

Romans 7:25 I thank God THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We see the transition from Romans 7 (The carnal believer) to Romans 8 (the spiritual believer, the saved from sin)

Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. (the old testament law)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW might be FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

We see that there is a condition. A believer should walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH; (Romans 7 carnal) but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8 spiritual)

Because the CARNAL MIND IS ENMITY against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD, neither indeed can be. (That's why a carnal believer keeps trying not to sin but fails)

So then they that are IN THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Therefore, brethren, WE ARE DEBTORS, NOT TO THE FLESH, to live after the flesh.

For IF YE LIVE AFTER THE FLESH (CARNAL), YE SHALL DIE: but if ye THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY the DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live.

Here comes what Jesus said about mortifying the deeds of the body:

Luke 9:23-24
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. [24] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Matthew 10:38-39
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. [39] He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

If we take up our cross, that is our death, we are crucified with Christ by denying our own will and only seeking the will of God.

Now, how do you know whether you are a carnal Christian or Spiritual? Why do I say carnal Christian? Let's see how Apostle Paul described the CHURCH in Corinth.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV
And I, BRETHREN, could not speak unto you as unto SPIRITUAL (Romans 8), but as unto CARNAL (Romans 7), even as unto BABES in Christ.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For YE ARE YET CARNAL:...............................

 

[Gottservant]

That was an interesting OP.

My heart on the matter, is that I need to relinquish my power over the Law to God, to be assessed by Him what I am worthy of and what not. Once agreed, that there is something worthy to pursue - despite what is not - I need to submit to the Law that I pay the penalty of the Law, with death - that by the wages death represents I might secure what is good. And anticipating this separation, from the penalty for what is good, I yield what is bad to the Holy Spirit, to be counselled on how it is that I may put it away. The body is not crushed, because the Spirit of God sustains it, and life without the wages accrued in the Law is reprieve, for those things genuinely paid for. What remains is to be less focused on the Law, and more on the Life of Christ, which is to save from the World wrought by the Law.

This is not meant as something to excuse the Law, but to place the power of the Law in the hands of God, the Holy Spirit and the Lord (that in the end there be freedom, not in the whole of the Law, but in only a fragment of the Law needing to be offered, for the better sacrifice - which is ultimately one's life without "sin"). The rejection of the Law is therefore silenced, for the duty that lesser men are made by. Am I so great a Christian that I boast in this? No, but that the lesser Christian I am, still serve the Lord in His Bride - whose righteousness is every bit filthy rags, until the perfection of the believers coming together for the Lord, finishes Her being clothed in white.

Thankyou so much for the opportunity to dwell on these things!

 

[Netchaplain]

Yea, sometimes I just fail to communicate. The generic sense of "justification" would be like justifying my paycheck by performing a good job. The technical sense of "justification" would be like God justifying Himself for giving sinful people eternal life. The generic sense of "justification" is an any-application of the word, and not necessarily anything to do with obtaining eternal life.

We cannot provide our own justification for obtaining eternal life precisely because we're sinners and are by default disqualified. But God can justify giving us eternal life, even while we're sinners, by both forgiving us what we've done to Him and by giving us a righteousness that displays evidence of true repentance.

Generically, Israel justified the fact they were God's People under the Law by obeying the Law. But in the technical sense of "justification," they could not thereby justify obtaining eternal life through their obedience because the Law confirmed their sinfulness and disqualification from eternal life. As much righteousness as the Law gave Israel it also amplified their need for the Law and its ritualistic remedies as sinners.

Justification, in the more technical sense, could only come by Christ's act of atonement, forgiving our sins, and granting us continued access to his righteousness. In another more broad sense, the Bible uses other words to explain how we are able to justify things we do as acceptable to God by doing precisely what He said to do.

Appreciate the reply and God bless!

 

[Netchaplain]

That was an interesting OP.

My heart on the matter, is that I need to relinquish my power over the Law to God, to be assessed by Him what I am worthy of and what not. Once agreed, that there is something worthy to pursue - despite what is not - I need to submit to the Law that I pay the penalty of the Law, with death - that by the wages death represents I might secure what is good. And anticipating this separation, from the penalty for what is good, I yield what is bad to the Holy Spirit, to be counselled on how it is that I may put it away. The body is not crushed, because the Spirit of God sustains it, and life without the wages accrued in the Law is reprieve, for those things genuinely paid for. What remains is to be less focused on the Law, and more on the Life of Christ, which is to save from the World wrought by the Law.

This is not meant as something to excuse the Law, but to place the power of the Law in the hands of God, the Holy Spirit and the Lord (that in the end there be freedom, not in the whole of the Law, but in only a fragment of the Law needing to be offered, for the better sacrifice - which is ultimately one's life without "sin"). The rejection of the Law is therefore silenced, for the duty that lesser men are made by. Am I so great a Christian that I boast in this? No, but that the lesser Christian I am, still serve the Lord in His Bride - whose righteousness is every bit filthy rags, until the perfection of the believers coming together for the Lord, finishes Her being clothed in white.

Thankyou so much for the opportunity to dwell on these things!

Thanks for the comments and God bless!

 

[HIM]

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. (the old testament law)

At the same time, what is said in Rom_8:2 of "the law of sin and death

The law of sin and death mentioned in Romans 8:2 is not the Old Testament law. First it is two things mention in that clause. The first is the Law of Sin. The second is the result of this Law. And that is death.

Paul states in verse Romans 7:21 that he found a Law. The previous verses in chapter 7 tell us what this Law is. In verse 19 he says he can't help himself but to do the evil that he doesn't want to do. And that it is no longer him that does but the sin that dwells in him in verse 20. Verse 22 Paul makes a declaration. He states that He delights in the Law of God. Then in verse 23 making a distinction between the Law of God (the Ten Commandments and other moral Laws mentioned in the Old Testament) He calls this Law that he mentioned in verse 21 another Law. And then gives it a name. He calls it the Law of sin. And then Paul continues crying out due to recognizing his condition, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

This Law of Sin, not being able to do the good we would, but the evil we would not this we do, is what the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from. So that the righteousness of the Law. The Law of God be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. Hence Jesus' words in John 8:34-36. Where He said, He that commits sin is a servant to it. And if the Son shall make you free from this servitude, then free we are indeed. And Paul's previous discourse in chapter 3 and 6, where he said Faith establishes the Law. And that we are free from sin because we are dead to sin through the death of Christ. And through His resurrection we walk in newness of life because we are alive unto God and through Him we are servants unto righteousness. This is the righteousness of faith and what it speaks. So say not in your heart, bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. For the Word is in our hearts and mouths that we do it. That is the faith in which we preach.

Amen and praise You Father God in heaven for releasing us from the body of sin and death that worketh in our members.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The law of sin and death mentioned in Romans 8:2 is not the Old Testament law. First it is two things mention in that clause. The first is the Law of Sin. The second is the result of this Law. And that is death.

Paul states in verse Romans 7:21 that he found a Law. The previous verses in chapter 7 tell us what this Law is. In verse 19 he says he can't help himself but to do the evil that he doesn't want to do. And that it is no longer him that does but the sin that dwells in him in verse 20. Verse 22 Paul makes a declaration. He states that He delights in the Law of God. Then in verse 23 making a distinction between the Law of God (the Ten Commandments and other moral Laws mentioned in the Old Testament) He calls this Law that he mentioned in verse 21 another Law. And then gives it a name. He calls it the Law of sin. And then Paul continues crying out due to recognizing his condition, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

This Law of Sin, not being able to do the good we would, but the evil we would not this we do, is what the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from. So that the righteousness of the Law.

I've thought this way too, and you may be correct. But I don't think there's any way of avoiding seeing Paul apply the principle of Sin and Death to the Law of Moses. In other places Paul points out that the Law of Moses was a bondage, leading to death.

And so, yes, I think Paul's statement here in Romans 7 is drawing us to a principle, that God determined Sin would be a bondage and that Sin's consequence would be death. This is all laid out in Genesis, where God pronounced judgment on the Man, indicating not just that he would die, but also that he would only produce vain works the equivalent of slavery.

Gen 3.17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Here is the principle, or law, of Sin and Death. It was not that Man would be unable to provide for himself, but that it would appear to be vain, inasmuch as it would lead to death. And since it would be a burden, it would be a curse, a condition of having displeased the Lord. The "law of Sin" is that Man remains displeasing to God, and thus exists in an environment showing God's displeasure. The law of Death is the fact that Man's state of being displeasing to God must lead to death.

But it was the Law of Moses that showed this, that even though Israel could be pardoned and do things to please God, in the end they would be seen to constantly need to deal with their fallen condition, offering sacrifices for sin and going through rituals of purification. It was a bondage inasmuch as they could never get free of this need for ritualistic cleansing while they were chained to this judgment of Sin and Death.

It is different, however, under the New Covenant of Christ because in following him we are pardoned, even though we remain in a Sin-poisoned condition. The judgment of God's displeasure has been removed, and even though we must die we will be resurrected. The works that we do are not only pleasing to God, but we need no longer be reminded that it keeps us in a position of displeasing God. What we do in Christ is referred to his own sinless condition, against which no judgment can stand.

 

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Paul states in verse Romans 7:21 that he found a Law. The previous verses in chapter 7 tell us what this Law is. In verse 19 he says he can't help himself but to do the evil that he doesn't want to do. And that it is no longer him that does but the sin that dwells in him in verse 20. Verse 22 Paul makes a declaration. He states that He delights in the Law of God. Then in verse 23 making a distinction between the Law of God (the Ten Commandments and other moral Laws mentioned in the Old Testament) He calls this Law that he mentioned in verse 21 another Law. And then gives it a name. He calls it the Law of sin. And then Paul continues crying out due to recognizing his condition, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

This Law of Sin, not being able to do the good we would, but the evil we would not this we do, is what the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from. So that the righteousness of the Law. The Law of God be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh. Hence Jesus' words in John 8:34-36. Where He said, He that commits sin is a servant to it. And if the Son shall make you free from this servitude, then free we are indeed. And Paul's previous discourse in chapter 3 and 6, where he said Faith establishes the Law. And that we are free from sin because we are dead to sin through the death of Christ. And through His resurrection we walk in newness of life because we are alive unto God and through Him we are servants unto righteousness. This is the righteousness of faith and what it speaks. So say not in your heart, bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. For the Word is in our hearts and mouths that we do it. That is the faith in which we preach.

Amen and praise You Father God in heaven for releasing us from the body of sin and death that worketh in our members.

I think this was very well stated!

I like the way you brought this together in particular:

"And through His resurrection we walk in newness of life because we are alive unto God and through Him we are servants unto righteousness."

Romans 3:27-31 KJV
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

On this part, I'm thinking that the requirement for faith validates the Law, that it is real, and that we are condemned under the Law. Therefore, we must be saved by faith.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

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But I don't think there's any way of avoiding seeing Paul apply the principle of Sin and Death to the Law of Moses.

I'm thinking that this passage shows us the working of the Law of Sin and Death prior to the Law of Moses,

Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

All sin, and all die, because sin kills. Even when it's not judicially imputed to the one doing it.

What do you think?

Much love!